What Historic Bangkok Bars Do We Have Left?

[rooster59]

U.S. halts funding to U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees

 

FILE PHOTO: Palestinian women take part in a protest against possible reductions of the services and aid offered by United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), in front of UNRWA headquarters in Gaza City August 16, 2015. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States on Friday cut funding to a U.N. agency that supports Palestinian refugees, saying its business model and fiscal practices were an "irredeemably flawed operation."

 

"The administration has carefully reviewed the issue and determined that the United States will not make additional contributions to UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency)," State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said in a statement.

 

She said the agency's "endlessly and exponentially expanding community of entitled beneficiaries is simply unsustainable and has been in crisis mode for many years."

 

UNRWA says it provides services to about 5 million Palestinian refugees. Most are descendants from individuals who fled Palestine in the 1948 war that led to the creation of the state of Israel.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-09-01

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, rooster59 said:

She said the agency's "endlessly and exponentially expanding community of entitled beneficiaries is simply unsustainable and has been in crisis mode for many years."

Truer words were never spoken, in recent history, many entities and groups of people all over the world have been displaced, moved, evicted and repatriated from their homes to other countries and places, creating mass migrations and refugees,  but somehow the mange to overcome their hardship and created new life, homes and businesses as life must goes on, only the palestinians leadership to it's generations have elected to stay poor, hapless and depended on endless handouts bequeathing their refugee status to their children and gand children,

maybe now, with no more free money coming in, the penny will drop...

[dexterm]

The usual way of ending a refugee problem in time of war is to allow people who want to return back to their homes when the fighting ends.

 

Seems somewhat hypocritical of both USA and Israel when many of these Palestinians still have the keys to their homes 15 minutes away across the separation barrier in Israel where they were born. 

 

There would be no need for UNWRA if Israel and USA allowed Palestinian refugees to return to their land and homes.

How about actually asking the refugees what they would like.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

Truer words were never spoken, in recent history, many entities and groups of people all over the world have been displaced, moved, evicted and repatriated from their homes to other countries and places, creating mass migrations and refugees,  but somehow the mange to overcome their hardship and created new life, homes and businesses as life must goes on, only the palestinians leadership to it's generations have elected to stay poor, hapless and depended on endless handouts bequeathing their refugee status to their children and gand children,

maybe now, with no more free money coming in, the penny will drop...

Most Palestinian refugees are stateless. Being Stateless severely hinders resettlement processes. In any case UNHCR only resettled approx 65,000 individuals in 2017 from a pool of millions, due to a global massive shortfall of resettlement places from member countries, so quit the BS.

 

http://www.unhcr.org/en-au/resettlement.html

 

BTW before someone goes on about KSA check the facts, as a number of Muslim majority countries operate outside of the UNHCR reporting structures. I am not a sympathiser for Muslim dictatorships, but it would  be a good idea for the Trump idiocracy to do some research before they present more misinformation on Arab states funding for refugees.

 

I suggest the US unilateral declaration to change the status of most Palestinian refugees will cut off their upcoming peace proposal off at the knees. 

 

Is this justification for cutting aid to millions, just  comes across as petty vindictiveness.

 

“First of all, you’re looking at the fact that there’s an endless number of refugees that continue to get assistance. But more importantly, the Palestinians continue to bash America.”

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/08/trump-palestinians-unrwa-funding/569167/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20180831&silverid-ref=NDY3NTA4NDQ0NDc3S0

 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by simple1

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The usual way of ending a refugee problem in time of war is to allow people who want to return back to their homes when the fighting ends.

 

Seems somewhat hypocritical of both USA and Israel when many of these Palestinians still have the keys to their homes 15 minutes away across the separation barrier in Israel where they were born. 

 

There would be no need for UNWRA if Israel and USA allowed Palestinian refugees to return to their land and homes.

How about actually asking the refugees what they would like.

 

As usual, conflating between the ideal and the real - when it suits the agenda, of course. In reality, many "refugee problems" remain unresolved, or are not resolved in the "perfect" manner suggested. More to the point, even your nonsense version doesn't apply in this case - the fighting didn't exactly "end", and the "people who want to return" must do so while accepting the sovereignty of the relevant country. But by all means...do talk about "hypocritical".

 

The standing nonsense bit about them "keys" is just a catchphrase you toss in whenever nothing of substance to add.

 

How about stopping to ignore Palestinian and Palestinian leadership role in this ?

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Most Palestinian refugees are stateless. Being Stateless severely hinders resettlement processes. In any case UNHCR only resettled approx 65,000 individuals in 2017 from a pool of millions, due to a global massive shortfall of resettlement places from member countries, so quit the BS.

 

http://www.unhcr.org/en-au/resettlement.html

 

BTW before someone goes on about KSA check the facts, as a number of Muslim majority countries operate outside on the UNHCR reporting structures. I am not a sympathiser for Muslim dictatorships, but it would  be a good idea for the Trump idiocracy to do some research before they present more misinformation on Arab states funding for refugees.

 

I suggest the US unilateral declaration to change the status of most Palestinian refugees will cut off their upcoming peace proposal off at the knees. 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/08/trump-palestinians-unrwa-funding/569167/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20180831&silverid-ref=NDY3NTA4NDQ0NDc3S0

 

 

 

Many of the Palestinian refugees have been living in Arab countries for decades. Other than Jordan (which in retrospect probably regrets the move) the general policy was and is to reject resettlement even of those born and raised in them countries. If there was even an iota of effort and goodwill invested in resettling Palestinians in their host countries, a whole lot of the issues would be easier to deal with.

[Chomper Higgot]

The US Executive have stated this decision to remove funding to the Palestinians is based upon a report into how the money is spent and the effectiveness of the aid in achieving US aims.

 

The report has not been released to Senators, the House or the public.

 

Publish the report.

[simple1]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Many of the Palestinian refugees have been living in Arab countries for decades. Other than Jordan (which in retrospect probably regrets the move) the general policy was and is to reject resettlement even of those born and raised in them countries. If there was even an iota of effort and goodwill invested in resettling Palestinians in their host countries, a whole lot of the issues would be easier to deal with.

Agree with permanent resettlement by M.E. host countries. As I recall the Palestinian political leadership hasn't done them any favours in that regard, quite the opposite when taking into account prior stuff i.e. Kuwait and Lebanon.

Edited September 1, 2018 by simple1

[dexterm]

The Palestinians' host country is Palestine.

How about the world making an effort in resettling them where they came from.

 

How about resolving this issue on the basis of justice, not on the basis of convenience for Trump's  administration or as a reward for Israel who created the refugee problem in the first place by palming the refugees off on other countries?

Edited September 1, 2018 by dexterm

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The Palestinians' host country is Palestine.

How about the world making an effort in resettling them where they came from.

Is there enough physical space?

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

Conflating between ideal and real once more. Other than in your intentionally simplified, agenda-driven nonsense posts, Israel is not realistically "quite capable of admitting millions", ,regardless of their religion or your attempts to hijack the topic.

[Ahab]

About time for a change in policy that effectively supported Hamas (which is a terrorist organization funded by Iran, and before this decision the United States).

[dexterm]

There are very simple, ideal, real and just solutions to this refugee problem provided there are people of goodwill to make them happen.

 

It's people like Trump who tries to impose his one-sided answers, that will only worsen the conflict.

 

"UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness told Reuters earlier this month that UNRWA’s support would be needed as long as the parties failed to reach an agreement to end the crisis.

UNRWA does not perpetuate the conflict, the conflict perpetuates UNRWA,” he said. “It is the failure of the political parties to resolve the refugee situation which perpetuates the continued existence of UNRWA.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-palestinians-unrwa/us-halts-funding-to-un-agency-helping-palestinian-refugees-idUSKCN1LG2EY

[Ahab]

37 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The Palestinians' host country is Palestine.

How about the world making an effort in resettling them where they came from.

 

How about resolving this issue on the basis of justice, not on the basis of convenience for Trump's  administration or as a reward for Israel who created the refugee problem in the first place by palming the refugees off on other countries?

Palestine was not and has never been a country (let alone a "host country"). Maybe a bit of reality would assist some people in formulating solutions to problems, when someone cannot even state the facts correctly there is no way that they can be part of the solution to those problems. If anything the problems would only get worse because the truth is ignored.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

Other than in your  rants, there are no "simple, ideal, real and just solution" to this situation. You're simply making stuff up. If it was that easy to solve, it would have been solved decades ago, your nonsense notwithstanding.

 

Obviously, "goodwill" for you only applies in one sense - not so much when it relates to Arab host countries' attitudes or indeed, the Palestinians themselves.

 

Considering what you push for is by itself a "one-sided answer", the criticism leveled at the US administration is bogus.

 

UNRWA contributes to the perpetuation of the Palestinian refugee situation, by providing a mechanism in which Arab host countries, the Palestinians and the international community can maintain the illusion that things could (or would) be fully reversed at some future point.

[Ahab]

5 minutes ago, dexterm said:

There are very simple, ideal, real and just solutions to this refugee problem provided there are people of goodwill to make them happen.

 

It's people like Trump who tries to impose his one-sided answers, that will only worsen the conflict.

 

"UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness told Reuters earlier this month that UNRWA’s support would be needed as long as the parties failed to reach an agreement to end the crisis.

UNRWA does not perpetuate the conflict, the conflict perpetuates UNRWA,” he said. “It is the failure of the political parties to resolve the refugee situation which perpetuates the continued existence of UNRWA.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-palestinians-unrwa/us-halts-funding-to-un-agency-helping-palestinian-refugees-idUSKCN1LG2EY

I respectfully disagree. For decades we have been told that only dialogue between the two parties will solve this crisis. It hasn't worked because the Palestinians will not settle for anything less than the complete destruction of the State of Israel and anything less than a return to the pre-1948 borders. When one side has maps without Israel on them that are used in schools and parents that dress their children up as suicide bombers for costume parties, they are not reasonable or serious about peace. Maybe it is time for US foreign aid to support efforts that are in the interest of American foreign policy and money that effectively goes to support Hamas is not in the interest of American foreign policy. Maybe it is time to ignore the experts that have gotten it so wrong for so long and give President Trump a stab at the problem. He could not possibly dick this up any more than the supposed experts have since 1948 and before.

[wombat]

'How about actually asking the refugees what they would like'

 

bad business move that would be.

 

 'He could not possibly dick this up any more than the supposed experts have since 1948 and before'

Amen to that sir. Aint nothing like a trained expert to get things 180 degrees to what it should be......how many years and how many presidents does that make it?

Edited September 1, 2018 by wombat

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, wombat said:

'How about actually asking the refugees what they would like'

 

bad business move that would be.

How do you ask them if they would like to live in a country that they do not believe exists? The maps that are used to teach Palestinian school children depict the whole of Israel as "Palestine"?

[wombat]

1 minute ago, Ahab said:

How do you ask them if they would like to live in a country that they do not believe exists? The maps that are used to teach Palestinian school children depict the whole of Israel as "Palestine"?

you tell them they have been conned and the truth is....

[GinBoy2]

I've said this before but worth saying again. The largest mass expulsion of an ethnic population were Germans, forcibly expelled from Eastern Europe at the end of WW2, condoned, and in point of fact facilitated by the Allies.
I don't think anyone is holding their breath for a right of return and restoration of seized property in that case!

It's also one of history's 'what if's' The best offer the Palestinians ever had, was that offered by the British Mandate Authority. Prior to WW2, the perfidious British figured it was better to keep the Arabs on side and piss off the Jews, and offered the Mufti of Jerusalem an Arab State, and independence within 10 years. He turned them down flat, flew to Berlin to talk to Hitler, who he thought, wrongly, had a better chance of winning a war

Well the rest is history!

[Tug]

That’s our Donald throw a match into the pile and walk away.i wish I had the answer . I do know  forced poverty Isn’t the answere I feel it’s more along the lines of building bridges but sadly that is lost on this administration 

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed as well as a reply. 

[ezzra]

3 hours ago, dexterm said:

... There are 3 groups that I am aware of who inherit their refugee status:

Afghans from 40 years ago 
Palestinians from 50 and 70 years ago
The Jewish diaspora from 2,000 years ago!

Your post didn't address the crux of the matter, why dose a refugee still, after 70 years in living in squalid conditions, cling to his folly wishfull thinking of returning home using  the 'keys' that they supposedly have? and for how much longer will they stay refugees? is there an end for this somewhere?...

[ezzra]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I've said this before but worth saying again. The largest mass expulsion of an ethnic population were Germans, forcibly expelled from Eastern Europe at the end of WW2, condoned, and in point of fact facilitated by the Allies.
I don't think anyone is holding their breath for a right of return and restoration of seized property in that case!

It's also one of history's 'what if's' The best offer the Palestinians ever had, was that offered by the British Mandate Authority. Prior to WW2, the perfidious British figured it was better to keep the Arabs on side and piss off the Jews, and offered the Mufti of Jerusalem an Arab State, and independence within 10 years. He turned them down flat, flew to Berlin to talk to Hitler, who he thought, wrongly, had a better chance of winning a war

Well the rest is history!

Second best offer the palestinians got is when Israel PM with president Clinton offers Arafat back in 2000 95% of Palestinians land back, NO, he said, i want 100% or nothing, and so he got nothing...

[Elfin]

6 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Clinton offers Arafat back in 2000 95% of Palestinians land back,

And what was on/in the 5% of that land that Israel was going to keep?

Water? Hilltops?

[dexterm]

51 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Your post didn't address the crux of the matter, why dose a refugee still, after 70 years in living in squalid conditions, cling to his folly wishfull thinking of returning home using  the 'keys' that they supposedly have? and for how much longer will they stay refugees? is there an end for this somewhere?...

Please give me a valid reason why a Palestinian would not want to return to his confiscated home within Israel just a few minutes from his UNWRA refugee camp?

Please give me a valid reason why Israel should not allow this Palestinian fully security vetted to return to his homeland in a gradual orderly process?

Edited September 1, 2018 by dexterm

[Ahab]

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I've said this before but worth saying again. The largest mass expulsion of an ethnic population were Germans, forcibly expelled from Eastern Europe at the end of WW2, condoned, and in point of fact facilitated by the Allies.
I don't think anyone is holding their breath for a right of return and restoration of seized property in that case!

It's also one of history's 'what if's' The best offer the Palestinians ever had, was that offered by the British Mandate Authority. Prior to WW2, the perfidious British figured it was better to keep the Arabs on side and piss off the Jews, and offered the Mufti of Jerusalem an Arab State, and independence within 10 years. He turned them down flat, flew to Berlin to talk to Hitler, who he thought, wrongly, had a better chance of winning a war

Well the rest is history!

The Palestinians have an uncanny knack of being able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Some of the absolute worst negotiators this planet has ever seen (IMO). 

[Blackheart1916]

I can see where Don is coming from. I sponsored kids for years through World Vision. A few years back a story surfaced, then quietly disappeared, about $40m going missing in the Middle East program. I wrote to WV asking to see detailed expenditures,  their reply was that doesn't get handed out. From then, either does my money.

[weegee]

Hasn't USA and others been handing out this "RELIEF" money for the last 70 odd yrs?....What a joke!

About time they started to look after themselves a bit....instead of relying on handouts for this long.

When your on a good thing.....That quote definitely belongs to bludgers like this...

America has been suckered enough, by too many incidents like this, and by countries that burn the US flag frequently.

I agree with the US, enough is enough.....and I'm not even an American....lol

While you are at it....stop funding the UN as well.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, ezzra said:

Your post didn't address the crux of the matter, why dose a refugee still, after 70 years in living in squalid conditions, cling to his folly wishfull thinking of returning home using  the 'keys' that they supposedly have? and for how much longer will they stay refugees? is there an end for this somewhere?...

 Nothing you have said addresses the crux of the matter.

 

The Trump administration has stated they have a report that provides the reasons for removing US aid to the Palestinians.

 

This report has not been seen by Congress, the Senate or the People.

 

Arguments on other mattesr are meaningless to the core issue that Trump is claiming to have good reason to act without presenting evidence to back his claim.

 

That your pleasure in seeing further hardship placed upon the Palestinians causes you to skip questioning the justification for Trump’s decision is wholly in keeping with your post history on any matter relating to the Palestinians.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Chomper Higgot