Palestinian refugees angry and dismayed at U.S. for halting funds to U.N. agency

[rooster59]

Palestinian refugees angry and dismayed at U.S. for halting funds to U.N. agency

By Stephen Farrell

 

A Palestinian man sits outside an aid distribution center run by United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) in Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip September 1, 2018. REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu Mustafa

 

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Palestinian refugees reacted with dismay on Saturday to a United States decision to halt funding to a U.N. agency, warning that it would lead to more poverty, anger and instability in the Middle East.

 

The U.S. announcement on Friday that it will no longer support the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) has deepened a cash crisis at the agency, and heightened tensions with the Palestinian leadership.

 

The 68-year-old UNRWA provides services to about 5 million Palestinian refugees across Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and the West Bank and Gaza. Most are descendants of the roughly 700,000 Palestinians who were driven out of their homes or fled the fighting in the 1948 war that led to Israel's creation.

 

In Gaza, Nashat Abu El-Oun, a refugee and father of eight, said: "The situation is bad and it will become worse...People can hardly afford living these days and if they became unable to earn their living they will begin thinking of unlawful things."

 

State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said on Friday that UNRWA's business model and fiscal practices were an "irredeemably flawed operation" and that the agency's "endlessly and exponentially expanding community of entitled beneficiaries is simply unsustainable."

 

UNRWA rejected the criticisms, with spokesman Chris Gunness describing it as "a force for regional stability."

 

Speaking in Jordan, where more than 2 million registered Palestinian refugees live, including 370,000 in ten refugee camps, Gunness said: "It is a deeply regrettable decision...some of the most disadvantaged, marginalised and vulnerable people on this planet are likely to suffer."

 

Gunness said UNRWA provides health clinics, schooling for 526,000 refugee children across Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and food assistance to 1.7 million people - a million of them in Gaza.

 

The agency will now ask existing donors for more money, and seek new sources of income.

 

"Our funding gap is $217 million ... so although we have opened up our schools just this week we have made it clear that we only have money until the end of September," he said.

 

BIGGEST DONOR

 

The United States, by far UNRWA's biggest donor, slashed funding earlier this year, paying out only $60 million of a first installment in January, and withholding $65 million. It had promised $365 million for the whole year.

 

Washington said the agency needed to make unspecified reforms and called on the Palestinians to renew peace talks with Israel.

 

The last Palestinian-Israeli peace talks collapsed in 2014, partly because of Israel's opposition to an attempted unity pact between the Fatah and Hamas Palestinian factions and to Israeli settlement building on occupied land that Palestinians seek for a state.

 

There was no immediate comment from the Israeli government to the decision by U.S. President Donald Trump's administration, which was issued during the Jewish sabbath. But it was welcomed by some Israelis.

 

Israeli opposition lawmaker Yair Lapid said on Twitter: "Aside from providing cover to terror, UNRWA is responsible for the fact that the 750,000 people they registered originally (most of whom have since died) became 5.5 million fake refugees. UNRWA lost sight of its purpose long ago."

 

Earlier this year Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu urged action against UNRWA.

 

"We already have great-great-grandchildren of refugees who are not refugees," he said in January. "I suggest a gradual conversion of all funds going to UNRWA to other agencies to deal with the question of refugees."

 

On Friday, before the U.S. decision was confirmed, the head of the international U.N. refugee agency UNHCR, Filippo Grandi, was asked by reporters in Beirut if his agency could assume UNRWA's role. "The Palestinian refugees in the region are the responsibility of UNRWA," he said, making no further comment.

 

The UNRWA move is the latest in a number of actions by the Trump administration that have alienated the Palestinians, including the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital and the decision to move the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

 

That move was a reversal of longtime U.S. policy and led Palestinian leadership to boycott the Washington peace efforts led by Jared Kushner, Trump's senior adviser and son-in-law.

 

Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erekat on Saturday accused Washington of implementing the agenda of "Israeli extremists who have done nothing but to destroy the prospect of peace between Palestinians and Israelis."

 

Speaking in Ramallah, he said: "The United States may have the right to say that we don't want to give taxpayers' money, but who gave the U.S. the right to approve the stealing of my land, my future, my aspirations, my capital, my Aqsa Mosque, my Holy Sepulchre Church?"

 

In Jalazone refugee camp near Ramallah in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, Ayoub Abeidi, whose family once lived in what is now the city of Lod in Israel, said the decision was political.

 

"Trump wants to finish off UNRWA so he can terminate the right of refugees (to return)," said Abeidi, 53. "Our right to return exists and neither Trump nor anybody else can cancel it."

 

Successive Israeli government have ruled out any right of return, fearing the country would lose its Jewish majority.

 

GRAPHIC: https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/editorcharts/ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS-UNRWA-US/0H0014BPP1QX/index.html

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-09-01

[Scouse123]

I side with Trump and his government on this issue and others regarding Iran.

 

The Palestinians sit there with a Hamas government responsible for terrorism and these guys hate the USA, who is the biggest financial contributor and then have the nerve to call it a betrayal when the U.S. stops aid; because they want the ' status quo' with no negotiations with Israel, but a straightforward continuation of non stop aid.

 

Generations and generations not mixing or trying to overcome their differences or arrive at any .kind of amicable solution. No, they just sit there stubbornly with their hand out!

 

Why should we all be the servants of these people?

 

They hate us, they hate western ways, they continue to promote hatred and anti-western feeling, yet think they are automatically entitled to aid!! 

 

Would any other country tolerate ( apart from pathetic, liberal, left-leaning, soft Britain) people burning to flags of the donor, hate speeches against their major donor in the mosques, encouragement to make attacks on the US at every opportunity? I don't think so!

 

You don't have to like the guy leading America or his personality and he does not put his message across well, but he is the man stopping all the countries taking the USA and Europe for fools for too long.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Scouse123

[biggles45]

"Trump wants to finish off UNRWA so he can terminate the right of refugees (to return)," said Abeidi, 53"

 

Or perhaps he is just tired of paying out money to people who are no longer entitled to it and hate everything America stands for., ? 

[dexterm]

2 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

I side with Trump and his government on this issue and others regarding Iran.

 

The Palestinians sit there with a Hamas government responsible for terrorism and these guys hate the USA, who is the biggest financial contributor and then have the nerve to call it a betrayal when the U.S. stops aid; because they want the ' status quo' with no negotiations with Israel, but a straightforward continuation of non stop aid.

 

Generations and generations not mixing or trying to overcome their differences or arrive at any .kind of amicable solution. No, they just sit there stubbornly with their hand out!

 

Why should we all be the servants of these people?

 

They hate us, they hate western ways, they continue to promote hatred and anti-western feeling, yet think they are automatically entitled to aid!! 

 

Would any other country tolerate ( apart from pathetic, liberal, left-leaning, soft Britain) people burning to flags of the donor, hate speeches against their major donor in the mosques, encouragement to make attacks on the US at every opportunity? I don't think so!

 

You don't have to like the guy leading America or his personality and he does not put his message across well, but he is the man stopping all the countries taking the USA and Europe for fools for too long.

The West was and still is responsible for creating the Palestinian refugee problem, so it has a moral and financial duty to help them and to resolve the issue justly.

 

The usual complaint when refugees flood Europe, as millions of desolate unfunded Palestinians may now do, is "Send them back where they came from."

And that is exactly what the Palestinians want too!

They have wanted the handouts to stop for the last 70 years! They want the right of return to their land. Some of their refugee camps are just minutes away across the border from their confiscated homes and land in Israel where many were born.

 

The West (mainly UK, France and USA) are directly responsible for the Palestinian refugee problem in the first place and have allowed it to fester and increase by turning a blind eye to Israel's continued expansion and expulsion of Palestinians from their land, and the West's failure to enforce international laws against Israel.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by dexterm

[puipuitom]

32 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The West was and still is responsible for creating the Palestinian refugee problem, so it has a moral and financial duty to help them and to resolve the issue justly.

 

The usual complaint when refugees flood Europe, as millions of desolate unfunded Palestinians may now do, is "Send them back where they came from."

And that is exactly what the Palestinians want too!

They have wanted the handouts to stop for the last 70 years! They want the right of return to their land. Some of their refugee camps are just minutes away across the border from their confiscated homes and land in Israel where many were born.

 

The West (mainly UK, France and USA) are directly responsible for the Palestinian refugee problem in the first place and have allowed it to fester and increase by turning a blind eye to Israel's continued expansion and expulsion of Palestinians from their land, and the West's failure to enforce international laws against Israel.

 

 

From about 1880 jews from Russia migrated to what we now call Iareal. Bouht land from the Arabs, mostly extremely rich families living in Damascus or so, and made it fertile again. Drained the marshes in Gallile, brought water to other places, planted trees...

In 1917 the British pushed the Turks out of that area, and were responsable for all governmental activities. see in Google with "Arab land ownership in Palestine 1919"

A full table of respective land ownership at the time of the proposed UNSCOP partition in 1948 is given below (research source links follow at the end): http://booksand-ebooks.com/political-commentary/israel-palestine-land-division 

7.4%                           Jewish ownership (direct or through Jewish land funds).

11.6%                         Arab-Palestinian owner-residents.

6.9%                           Foreign owners, mostly Arab or prior Ottoman owners.

44.1%                         State-owned Public land.

26.5%                         State-owned/feudal-system leased land (Miri)

 3.5%                          Religious trusts (Islamic Waqf, Greek Orthodox  Church)

In 1947 the Arab leaders called upon all Arabs to leave the Jewish areas, so their armies had a full freedom to kill. Many did, also quite some were forced by the jews to leave. As in many wars, the loosers loose everything. Ask the Indians in the Americas, the Bretons in what we now call England, the Germans from Prusia etc. About a 400-700.000 Arabs went into refugee camps. All from what we now call Israel, or also poor Arab people from other places ? Also a 700.000 Jews were forces to leave Arab ares, sometimes living there for over 2.500 years. All these got ZERO support, while Palestinians already are supported since 1949, starting with a 700.000 displaced, but in the meatime exploded to 4.5 million, getting annually a US$ 1.3 BILLION, with as their thanks terrorost attacs. That's why we pay BILLIONS per year for security checks at every airport.

Think of the population exchange between Turkey and Greece in 1923, or between India and Pakistan in 1948... Palestinians can take the places of the jews chased out of their countries, and for the rest: we, the West, paid them more than enough. Time the Europeans also stop their contribution to terrorist-supporters of UNWRA

[radiochaser]

1 minute ago, Expatthailover said:

Usual rednecks out and about I see.

After a busy night burning crosses and books they take to social media 

Have you ever met anyone in the klan?   I have.

I used to live in Louisiana as a child.  I remember them talking about wanting to kill the black (not the word they used) loving republicans.  

That makes me think that the cross burning rednecks were democrats!

 

[Expatthailover]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

I side with Trump and his government on this issue and others regarding Iran.

 

The Palestinians sit there with a Hamas government responsible for terrorism and these guys hate the USA, who is the biggest financial contributor and then have the nerve to call it a betrayal when the U.S. stops aid; because they want the ' status quo' with no negotiations with Israel, but a straightforward continuation of non stop aid.

 

Generations and generations not mixing or trying to overcome their differences or arrive at any .kind of amicable solution. No, they just sit there stubbornly with their hand out!

 

Why should we all be the servants of these people?

 

They hate us, they hate western ways, they continue to promote hatred and anti-western feeling, yet think they are automatically entitled to aid!! 

 

Would any other country tolerate ( apart from pathetic, liberal, left-leaning, soft Britain) people burning to flags of the donor, hate speeches against their major donor in the mosques, encouragement to make attacks on the US at every opportunity? I don't think so!

 

You don't have to like the guy leading America or his personality and he does not put his message across well, but he is the man stopping all the countries taking the USA and Europe for fools for too long.

Estimates range from 1.3m to 2m of muslims killed by western military since the war on terror.

Then factor in what burma is doing with rohingas and saudi being given carte blanche ( by usa ) to bomb yemen to oblivion ..well your bleating is rather nonsensical. 

[IAMHERE]

Bite the hand that feeds you and then complain about the results. 

[Scouse123]

53 minutes ago, Expatthailover said:

Estimates range from 1.3m to 2m of muslims killed by western military since the war on terror.

Then factor in what burma is doing with rohingas and saudi being given carte blanche ( by usa ) to bomb yemen to oblivion ..well your bleating is rather nonsensical. 

 

It's their money, it belongs to the USA, who have subsidized and supported them through projects, healthcare, schooling, medicines etc with a great deal of money via the U.N. and directly through USAID for years and years,

 

They have now been told be the Palestinians that they are part of the problem not the solution, however, they still expect aid to flow freely meanwhile preaching hatred towards the ' hand that feeds them '

 

  If the US is not getting the cooperation they feel they deserve they can withdraw.

 

Your Muslim friends can ask their Muslim brothers for funds.

 

Iv think to expect this is ' nonsensical '

 

Muslims are great at playing the victims. This is always the case until they gather enough numbers.

 

The world must then ignore the persecution they hand out to Christians in their Muslim countries! ...............................Yeah right.!

 

You talk about Yemen, is this not Muslims against Muslims? They cannot even co-exist with their own!

Edited September 2, 2018 by Scouse123

[Scouse123]

30 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Bite the hand that feeds you and then complain about the results. 

 

Agreed 100%

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

I notice you skip the first 6 decades of Israel's modern history with your glossy lopsided paraphrase. No mention even of the foundation of Zionism.Then suddenly you jump to the very handy 1948 figures from your source John Matthews co screenwriter of New Tricks and Silent Witness (your link) hardly an expert on Israeli/Palestinan demographics.

Having omitted of course the fact that the Palestinian population (of the area of modern Israel) went from 70% in 1946 to 18% in 1948, as a result of Jewish militias' ethnic cleansing prior to the end of the Mandate
(Israel's own www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present a much better source I think)

Whether you think these people fled during time of war as people tend to do or were terrorized, it is against international law (the Geneva Convention for one to which Israel is a signatory) not to allow them to return.

When I would write a book, then all years, nmoths and even days could come in.

 

When 700.000 Arabs rushed away from the western part, yes… the Arab population drops down there.

Ask the millions of Germans, who left from Eastern Europe. And in many other situations.

Do the Arabs + Iranians allow the Jews also to return to their belongings, left when they had to leave in 1949-53 ? Or is that right only for the Palestinians, parasiting for 70 years already.

In the 70-s.80-s en even beginning of the 90-s hundreds of thousand worked in Israel, but they chose to KILL Israelis en Jews over the world. Ever heard of a Buddhist, Taist, Hindu, Jew, Mormon etc attempting terrorist attacks ? Look in Algeria, Lybia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Mali, Nigeria: they were/are butchering each other.

 

In the 20th century, Iraqi Jews played an important role in the early days of Iraq's independence. Between 1950–52, 120,000–130,000 of the Iraqi Jewish community (around 75%) reached Israel As of 2014 more than 229,900 Israelis were of Iraqi Jewish descent.

[weegee]

In Gaza, Nashat Abu El-Oun, a refugee and father of eight, said: "The situation is bad and it will become worse...People can hardly afford living these days and if they became unable to earn their living they will begin thinking of unlawful things."

The above says it all....EIGHT KIDS and living on handouts from countries that work for a living...Of course this has to stop. The sooner the better.

[Scouse123]

1 minute ago, weegee said:

In Gaza, Nashat Abu El-Oun, a refugee and father of eight, said: "The situation is bad and it will become worse...People can hardly afford living these days and if they became unable to earn their living they will begin thinking of unlawful things."

The above says it all....EIGHT KIDS and living on handouts from countries that work for a living...Of course this has to stop. The sooner the better.

 

And then the guy also makes ' threats ' as to what will occur if they don't get free handouts!

[roobaa01]

well done mr trump  cut the funding to hamas which is killing jewish citizens.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[dexterm]

The bottom line of the entire conflict is the bottom line of the OP...
"Successive Israeli government have ruled out any right of return, fearing the country would lose its Jewish majority."

 

Israel became a predominantly Jewish state because it was able to expel most of the majority Palestinian population to make them refugees.

The only way Israeli Jews can remain the majority population who make all the laws because they have the majority votes is by refusing Palestinian refugees the right of return to their homeland and giving them equal rights.

 

Where one ethno religious group wants to maintain supremacy over another - that's racism and apartheid, and Trump is pandering to it.

Edited September 2, 2018 by dexterm

[Nyezhov]

30 minutes ago, dexterm said:

 

Where one ethno religious group wants to maintain supremacy over another - that's racism and apartheid, and Trump is pandering to it.

Really? So no more nation states allowed?

[Morch]

10 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

I side with Trump and his government on this issue and others regarding Iran.

 

The Palestinians sit there with a Hamas government responsible for terrorism and these guys hate the USA, who is the biggest financial contributor and then have the nerve to call it a betrayal when the U.S. stops aid; because they want the ' status quo' with no negotiations with Israel, but a straightforward continuation of non stop aid.

 

Generations and generations not mixing or trying to overcome their differences or arrive at any .kind of amicable solution. No, they just sit there stubbornly with their hand out!

 

Why should we all be the servants of these people?

 

They hate us, they hate western ways, they continue to promote hatred and anti-western feeling, yet think they are automatically entitled to aid!! 

 

Would any other country tolerate ( apart from pathetic, liberal, left-leaning, soft Britain) people burning to flags of the donor, hate speeches against their major donor in the mosques, encouragement to make attacks on the US at every opportunity? I don't think so!

 

You don't have to like the guy leading America or his personality and he does not put his message across well, but he is the man stopping all the countries taking the USA and Europe for fools for too long.

 

You may side with whomever, but that's no reason to make a mess of facts and reality.

 

The Palestinians are not led by a "Hamas government". There are, in fact, two parallel and contesting Palestinian leaderships, one of them being the Hamas, and the other the Palestinian National Authority (PA or PNA), which is mostly associated with the Fatah. The former holds sway in the Gaza Strip, while the latter is based in the West Bank.

 

US funds (and indeed, most other donors' as well) are not provided to the Hamas. Moreover, the funds in question aren't even provided to the PA. Rather they are directed to UNRWA, which is a UN agency. It can be claimed that providing funds to UNRWA indirectly supports either Palestinian faction, but that's a rather dodgy argument, as they go.

 

Reasons for negotiation stalling or not going anywhere are many - not all of them lie with the Palestinian side, nor are they all related to aid funds etc.

 

It is a fair comment, IMO, that Palestinian attitudes toward the US are at odds with their expectations that the funds be provided regardless.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

The "West" is not responsible for creating the Palestinian refugee problem, other than in your imagination and agenda-driven rants. That you assert this as "fact" doesn't actually make it so. As usual, your extreme biased take dictates that neither Arab countries, nor the Palestinians themselves or even the international community not coming under the "West" label be held accountable for anything whatsoever. As per script, ignoring decades of Arab/Palestinian rejectionism.

 

As for the second bogus comment - do you actually see a mass movement of refugees out of Europe? Yeah, thought so. That's because words are easy, and deeds are....more complex. Of course, the situation of most relevant countries refugees come from is not "exactly" the same, but such realities are often cast aside in your diatribes.

 

Your intentionally misleading and simplistic version of the Palestinian "right of return", what it implies and what it entails is the usual nonsense.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

The bottom line is that regardless of the past, Israel is not required nor expected to commit national suicide at the present just to satisfy your fantasies. Your usual position of laying all the blame on Israel is equally bogus, and ignores the part played by both Arab and Palestinian leaderships. And, of course, the "obligatory" demonizing of Israel, while ignoring Palestinian aspirations being on par, if not worse.

 

Other than in your social engineering fantasies, most realistic takes generally accept that a full blown implementation of the Palestinian right of return is both impractical, and undesirable. It's all very well to agitate for extreme solutions, but seeing as they are coming from an arm-chair activist cum keyboard warrior, there's little to recommend them.

 

[Nyezhov]

Well Uncle Don just jacked $300 mill from Pakistans military for not following the rules....

 

Our rules. Our money, our rules. Call us Daddy....

 

 

[Scott]

Posts reported and removed.  

[dexterm]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

The bottom line is that regardless of the past, Israel is not required nor expected to commit national suicide at the present just to satisfy your fantasies. Your usual position of laying all the blame on Israel is equally bogus, and ignores the part played by both Arab and Palestinian leaderships. And, of course, the "obligatory" demonizing of Israel, while ignoring Palestinian aspirations being on par, if not worse.

 

Other than in your social engineering fantasies, most realistic takes generally accept that a full blown implementation of the Palestinian right of return is both impractical, and undesirable. It's all very well to agitate for extreme solutions, but seeing as they are coming from an arm-chair activist cum keyboard warrior, there's little to recommend them.

 

That you try to obfuscate the well known fact of the West's complicity in the founding of the state of Israel and the subsequent creation of the Palestinian refugee problem is immaterial. That is your agenda. Worthy of discussion in another thread perhaps.

[dexterm]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

The bottom line is that regardless of the past, Israel is not required nor expected to commit national suicide at the present just to satisfy your fantasies. Your usual position of laying all the blame on Israel is equally bogus, and ignores the part played by both Arab and Palestinian leaderships. And, of course, the "obligatory" demonizing of Israel, while ignoring Palestinian aspirations being on par, if not worse.

 

Other than in your social engineering fantasies, most realistic takes generally accept that a full blown implementation of the Palestinian right of return is both impractical, and undesirable. It's all very well to agitate for extreme solutions, but seeing as they are coming from an arm-chair activist cum keyboard warrior, there's little to recommend them.

 

What you describe as "national suicide" is a euphemism for the refusal of Israel to allow equal rights for all of the people  in Palestine. It would certainly herald the end of majority rule based purely on religion/race. It would eventually be the opposite: a national renaissance, and IMO it is inevitable.

 

I understand the Israeli Jews' fears of being swamped by others and losing their power...people never like losing power..that's the reality of history. But the return of Palestinian refugees need not be the all or nothing deluge scenario ("full blown implementation") you paint.

Firstly the elderly and their immediate families who were born in Israel fully security vetted would be allowed the right of return. Plenty of room...the majority of confiscated Palestinian land has never been built over by Israel. It would relieve the UNWRA situation, calm things down, and give hope for the future to the region, that people of different faiths can actually live side by side in peace.
 

[ezzra]

10 minutes ago, dexterm said:

What you describe as "national suicide" is a euphemism for the refusal of Israel to allow equal rights for all of the people  in Palestine. It would certainly herald the end of majority rule based purely on religion/race. It would eventually be the opposite: a national renaissance, and IMO it is inevitable.

 

I understand the Israeli Jews' fears of being swamped by others and losing their power...people never like losing power..that's the reality of history. But the return of Palestinian refugees need not be the all or nothing deluge scenario ("full blown implementation") you paint.

Firstly the elderly and their immediate families who were born in Israel fully security vetted would be allowed the right of return. Plenty of room...the majority of confiscated Palestinian land has never been built over by Israel. It would relieve the UNWRA situation, calm things down, and give hope for the future to the region, that people of different faiths can actually live side by side in peace.
 

They say that you don't have to be a chicken to judge an omelet, but you do have to live or visit israel and the palestinians parts to be able to see that the ideas of right of return are nothing but a folly and a wishful thinking, as there is nothing there to return to, no house no orchards no farm or villages, they all become bustling and modern cities and metropolitans, most of all, arabs will not be able to live among the Israelis as animosity and vast ideology and religion differences is to wide to bridge over, and the palestinians knows all that only too well, this 'return' mantra is only there to stoke the flames of hatred and keep the clueless minions angry and poor and to keep the billions in donations and other, equally clueless wordly support, and perpetuate the Palestinians cause for another 70 years and 10 million 'refugees'.....

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been reported and now removed. 

[Morch]

5 hours ago, dexterm said:

That you try to obfuscate the well known fact of the West's complicity in the founding of the state of Israel and the subsequent creation of the Palestinian refugee problem is immaterial. That is your agenda. Worthy of discussion in another thread perhaps.

 

What you label a "well known fact" is, in fact, nothing of the sort. At least not in the one-sided manner you present it. Those not completely blinkered, would be aware that Russia (the USSR back then), 4 of its then satellite states, and a bunch of Latin and South American countries voted in favor as well. That you wish to frame it as "the West" is about as bogus as the rest of the misleading accounts and "well known facts" you routinely post on these topics.

 

And as usual, you make some bogus comment, then declare it to be off topic when you can't defend your position.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

What I describe as national suicide is to willingly allow the influx of millions of hostile people into one's country. That you object to Israel's existence and wish to see it replace by a Palestinian state is immaterial to this point. Spin it whichever way you like. Countries are not realistically expected to fundamentally alter their demographics in order to satisfy the agenda of extremists like yourself.

 

That you wish to commence a social engineering experiment in an already volatile region and in relation to an explosive conflict, is neither an informed nor a hinged position. History taking its course is one thing, artificially hastening it along in order to fulfill your extreme political fantasies, while ignoring relevant realities is quite another.

 

Your nonsense about "plenty of room" are quite out there, and bear little relation to facts. What you refer to applies, to a degree, in the West Bank. As a general statement its incorrect.

 

Any Palestinian right of return is (and was always) conditional on full acceptance (not your version of such) of Israel's sovereignty. It also entails not engaging in hostile actions toward the country - which would rule out most of your pseudo-revolutionary rubbish. Generally speaking, to the degree that they are aware of such conditions (leadership and propagandists do their best to avoid such issues) Palestinians cannot be said to embrace these notions.

 

The usual rose-tainted kumbaya musings ignore the fact that hostility does exist, and that it is unlikely to disappear  any time soon. The ME is not particularly known for being a great environment as far as co-existence and tolerance goes - but in the service of putting up yet another rant, you're quite willing to ignore that.