Parmesan Cheese? I don't think so.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Show me the thread. All your threads on pizza making were removed (for good reason) as you well know.

I didn't think I was going off topic I thought I was contributing to the cheese thread.  But since you didn't I started another thread. 

[marcusarelus]

So what did you think of the taste of the Parmesan cheese and what did you use it on?

[KneeDeep]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So what did you think of the taste of the Parmesan cheese and what did you use it on?

 

He told us in post #22;

 

Quote

It's Australian.  Good stuff and cheap.  I tried some.

and again in post #24

 

Quote

Anyway, I liked the flavor of the stuff.

 

Those comments are precisely why he cannot be taken seriously when it comes to the quality of food. Yet, he has "been in the food business for 22 years"!

Shocking. No joke.

[marcusarelus]

16 minutes ago, KneeDeep said:

 

He told us in post #22;

 

and again in post #24

 

 

Those comments are precisely why he cannot be taken seriously when it comes to the quality of food. Yet, he has "been in the food business for 22 years"!

Shocking. No joke.

All he said was he would take it back for a refund.  What did he put it on?  How does it compare with other Parmesan grated cheese for 200 baht?  

[Rimmer]

More off topic and bickering posts removed

[KneeDeep]

7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

All he said was he would take it back for a refund.  What did he put it on?  How does it compare with other Parmesan grated cheese for 200 baht?  

 

Please stop with this" Parmesan grated cheese" nonsense. It's just an insult to Parmigiano - Reggiano.

 

It's ridiculous to describe any old hard cheese as Parmesan, let alone something that is alleged to contain perhaps 63.7% of some unidentified hard cheese. 

You may have lax standards, but try to not spread the practice worldwide. Keep it to yourself.

 

Understand that some of us, if not all of us, prefer to know exactly what we are eating.

 

So calling any old hard cheese Parmesan, is just an insult to European sensibilities.

 

[Shouldhaveknownbetter]

 

 

Please stop with this" Parmesan grated cheese" nonsense. It's just an insult to Parmigiano - Reggiano.

 

It's ridiculous to describe any old hard cheese as Parmesan, let alone something that is alleged to contain perhaps 63.7% of some unidentified hard cheese. 

You may have lax standards, but try to not spread the practice worldwide. Keep it to yourself.

 

Understand that some of us, if not all of us, prefer to know exactly what we are eating.

 

So calling any old hard cheese Parmesan, is just an insult to European sensibilities.

 

If an Italian immigrant from Parma makes similar cheese in Canada or Mexico or the USA, it can be called parmesan just not parmigiano reggiano

[KneeDeep]

3 hours ago, Shouldhaveknownbetter said:

If an Italian immigrant from Parma makes similar cheese in Canada or Mexico or the USA, it can be called parmesan just not parmigiano reggiano

No. Again just a made up statement. Just like Parmesan is being used as a generic term.

Similar means what? How will someone in the USA understand the difference between a copy similar to a Grana Padano Riserva and a Parmigiano Reggiano, if they are both called Parmesan?

It has nothing to do with it being an Italian immigrant. It's just a sales gimmick.

[The manic]

How do they get away with selling that crap? I'm sorry to say they take advantage of ignorant people. 

[The manic]

5 hours ago, Shouldhaveknownbetter said:

If an Italian immigrant from Parma makes similar cheese in Canada or Mexico or the USA, it can be called parmesan just not parmigiano reggiano

I think the term Parmesan cheese is an internationaly recognised term and protected by law. A lot or European products are.

[marcusarelus]

I think one should know about grated sold in a shaker.  You might not like it, OK, but one needs an anti caking agent if it is going to be sold that way.  Cellulose is such an agent. Cellulose is not harmful nor does it have any taste.  It is not crap it is just the way budget cheese is made.  Cheap cheese in a shaker is not comparable to good cheese in a round.  Get what you pay for.  If you are going to put it on something with a lot of other spices you won't taste it anyway.  If you are going to consume Parmesan by itself one would not buy a budget shaker of cheese now would one?  

 

The green shaker cheese is comparable to a craft shaker.  Both about the same.  I've tried both.  I don't use either one as I grind my own. 

[Speedhump]

I would rather eat any US or other parmesan-style product (even containing cellulose and other filler) than contribute to the outright animal cruelty that Italian cows are subjected to while producing this milk. You only have to Google "parmesan grano padano cruelty" to educate yourselves. I stopped buying blocks of the stuff a while back. I even used to eat it sliced on its own, not just on food. Please think about it. The terrible treatment of these cows cannot even be compared to the sad way in which most milk is mass-produced around the world (yes, we shut our eyes to a lot, but some things are too inhumane to ignore). ?

Edited September 14, 2018 by Speedhump
Spelling

[Speedhump]

15 hours ago, giddyup said:

Show me the thread. All your threads on pizza making were removed (for good reason) as you well know.

That sounds intriguing! ???

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, KneeDeep said:

No. Again just a made up statement. Just like Parmesan is being used as a generic term.

Similar means what? How will someone in the USA understand the difference between a copy similar to a Grana Padano Riserva and a Parmigiano Reggiano, if they are both called Parmesan?

It has nothing to do with it being an Italian immigrant. It's just a sales gimmick.

I believe I know where you're coming from with this and I have to agree with what you have posted.

 

As my hobby is wine, I liken it to the French term "terroir" which used to be ridiculed by some producers from other countries as to something made up to try and make French wines that little bit more "special". And they basically were saying that anywhere in the world can produce the same wines with the same quality and same characteristics.

 

However now that science has moved on, and a better understanding has developed, it's quite obvious that the French had something with their description and it meant more than just soil – – it was a combination of microclimates, farming practices, type and age of the vine, minerals in the soil and so on, and it was that which gave the wine its particular regional characteristic, so to say that an exact same wine could be produced in, say California for example, is wrong.

 

Indeed fine wines can be made in California, but even if the grapes are similar/the same, the original in France is still the benchmark.

 

And I believe that's what you're trying to say with your Parmesan argument, because it's a combination of factors which make the cheese what it is, not just the producer of it, and it is country/region specific because of a similar combination to that which I've described in my wine analogy

[duanebigsby]

On 9/11/2018 at 6:49 PM, KneeDeep said:

I think one or two posters are missing the point. 

Instead of taking the opportunity to take a long and hard look at the quality of the food that they are eating and the chemicals that they handle, they instead attempt to attack the messenger.

 

The fact that the Europeans are resisting the worst of the American excesses is to be commended. Other countries perhaps have a lesser ability to protect their markets.

 

We don't want your genetically modified organisms. Your chlorinated chicken and hormone injected beef. Your misleading labels. 

Let#s not forget the recent Monsanto RoundUp debacle.

 

You create a cheese equivalent to a Grana Padano Riserva and call it Artisan. Suddenly any copy of a decent European cheese is Artisan. 

 

That's my point. Produce a food to European standards and it is considered an Artisan produced product.

 

So perhaps lobby for higher standards, rather than posting crap about protecting the world.

 

On this I mostly agree with you. I'd like to point out that many Americans are also resisting  the worst of the American excesses. The huge rise in micro and craft breweries, the growing popularity of farmer's markets, and  also a growing craft cheese industry suggest many Americans are also uprising against poor food.

[Speedhump]

35 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I believe I know where you're coming from with this and I have to agree with what you have posted.

 

As my hobby is wine, I liken it to the French term "terroir" which used to be ridiculed by some producers from other countries as to something made up to try and make French wines that little bit more "special". And they basically were saying that anywhere in the world can produce the same wines with the same quality and same characteristics.

 

However now that science has moved on, and a better understanding has developed, it's quite obvious that the French had something with their description and it meant more than just soil – – it was a combination of microclimates, farming practices, type and age of the vine, minerals in the soil and so on, and it was that which gave the wine its particular regional characteristic, so to say that an exact same wine could be produced in, say California for example, is wrong.

 

Indeed fine wines can be made in California, but even if the grapes are similar/the same, the original in France is still the benchmark.

 

And I believe that's what you're trying to say with your Parmesan argument, because it's a combination of factors which make the cheese what it is, not just the producer of it, and it is country/region specific because of a similar combination to that which I've described in my wine analogy

Perhaps it's the tears of the cows.... 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

I believe I know where you're coming from with this and I have to agree with what you have posted.

 

As my hobby is wine, I liken it to the French term "terroir" which used to be ridiculed by some producers from other countries as to something made up to try and make French wines that little bit more "special". And they basically were saying that anywhere in the world can produce the same wines with the same quality and same characteristics.

 

However now that science has moved on, and a better understanding has developed, it's quite obvious that the French had something with their description and it meant more than just soil – – it was a combination of microclimates, farming practices, type and age of the vine, minerals in the soil and so on, and it was that which gave the wine its particular regional characteristic, so to say that an exact same wine could be produced in, say California for example, is wrong.

 

Indeed fine wines can be made in California, but even if the grapes are similar/the same, the original in France is still the benchmark.

 

And I believe that's what you're trying to say with your Parmesan argument, because it's a combination of factors which make the cheese what it is, not just the producer of it, and it is country/region specific because of a similar combination to that which I've described in my wine analogy

In this thread the guy is trying to compare Château Lafite Rothschild with Boon's farm apple wine. 

 

The OP bought a budget ground cheese in a shaker for a couple of hundred baht and got what he paid for and wants to whinge about it. 

 

Other posters are trying to compare shaker cheap Parmesan with fine Parmigiano-Reggiano and other fine hard cheeses from Europe. 

 

To make them not seem so dense they are trying to turn the thread into a anti cheese additive thread.  The one that trips their trigger is an anti caking agent which shaker cheeses need to pour out of a shaker and a wheel of Parmesan does not.  

 

They have never tasted fine American cheese and compared it to fine European cheese!  Beneath their sophisticated palate.  

 

Minus shipping you get what you get what you pay for.  Welcome to the world. 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

In this thread the guy is trying to compare Château Lafite Rothschild with Boon's farm apple wine. 

 

The OP bought a budget ground cheese in a shaker for a couple of hundred baht and got what he paid for and wants to whinge about it. 

 

Other posters are trying to compare shaker cheap Parmesan with fine Parmigiano-Reggiano and other fine hard cheeses from Europe. 

 

To make them not seem so dense they are trying to turn the thread into a anti cheese additive thread.  The one that trips their trigger is an anti caking agent which shaker cheeses need to pour out of a shaker and a wheel of Parmesan does not.  

 

They have never tasted fine American cheese and compared it to fine European cheese!  Beneath their sophisticated palate.  

 

Minus shipping you get what you get what you pay for.  Welcome to the world. 

There were posters who were stating that cheese with that name made in the USA was as good as the original and I think that's what he was aiming his posts at.

 

There are many cheese types replicated around the world and to be honest I've not tasted one as good or better than the originals on any occasion.

 

[marcusarelus]

40 minutes ago, xylophone said:

There were posters who were stating that cheese with that name made in the USA was as good as the original and I think that's what he was aiming his posts at.

 

There are many cheese types replicated around the world and to be honest I've not tasted one as good or better than the originals on any occasion.

 

I read the first 75 posts and I was the closest poster who said the Parmesan was good.  I said I put on pizza with 20 other ingredients and doubted I could taste it.  One poster kept harping on how bad American food was because labeling laws are different than Europe.  Seems there are only two posters who tasted the OP's grated Parmesan.  He didn't like it.  I said it was good for pizza but I didn't use it anymore because I grind my own.  Take a look.  If you can find anyone who said the OP's grated cheese is as good as the Parmesan original I'll buy you some Parmesan. 

 

I said much later in the thread that good American Parmesan is as good as European Parmesan and linked European Cheese shows that showed the US winning over European cheese makers.  For example Reserve CheeseSarVecchio® Parmesan.

 

But as usual people who had never tasted the American cheese felt qualified to judge it and came out with the usual vitriol against anything American with not comparing like products and not bothering to actually taste the products. 

Edited September 14, 2018 by marcusarelus

[xylophone]

24 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I read the first 75 posts and I was the closest poster who said the Parmesan was good.  I said I put on pizza with 20 other ingredients and doubted I could taste it.  One poster kept harping on how bad American food was because labeling laws are different than Europe.  Seems there are only two posters who tasted the OP's grated Parmesan.  He didn't like it.  I said it was good for pizza but I didn't use it anymore because I grind my own.  Take a look.  If you can find anyone who said the OP's grated cheese is as good as the Parmesan original I'll buy you some Parmesan. 

 

I said much later in the thread that good American Parmesan is as good as European Parmesan and linked European Cheese shows that showed the US winning over European cheese makers.  For example Reserve CheeseSarVecchio® Parmesan.

 

But as usual people who had never tasted the American cheese felt qualified to judge it and came out with the usual vitriol against anything American with not comparing like products and not bothering to actually taste the products. 

Much ado about nothing springs to mind...….moving right along.

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Much ado about nothing springs to mind...….moving right along.

Actually convinced me to buy some but as you can see they are out of stock. 

Parmiggiano Reggiano medium aged 24 months

Product code: T26924

Email to a Friend

 

0 Review(s) | Be the first to review this product

Availability: Out of stock

345 THB

/100 g.

 

 

[KneeDeep]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

In this thread the guy is trying to compare Château Lafite Rothschild with Boon's farm apple wine. 

 

The OP bought a budget ground cheese in a shaker for a couple of hundred baht and got what he paid for and wants to whinge about it. 

 

Other posters are trying to compare shaker cheap Parmesan with fine Parmigiano-Reggiano and other fine hard cheeses from Europe. 

 

To make them not seem so dense they are trying to turn the thread into a anti cheese additive thread.  The one that trips their trigger is an anti caking agent which shaker cheeses need to pour out of a shaker and a wheel of Parmesan does not.  

 

They have never tasted fine American cheese and compared it to fine European cheese!  Beneath their sophisticated palate.  

 

Minus shipping you get what you get what you pay for.  Welcome to the world. 

 

It seems you are still posting nonsense.

 

I actually compared the Redwood Farms product from USA with the cheapest of the cheap Basics product from one of our supermarkets in the UK(costing 43 baht).

 

The American product contains only 63.7% hard cheese, the rest being made up of food starch and cellulose(made from wood pulp or cotton).

 

The Italian product sold in the U.K for 43 baht contains 100% hard cheese. No additives.

Why in Europe do they not feel the need to add nearly 37% of fillers? Why only in the USA?

 

So the American product is clearly heavily adulterated, yet costs 200 baht in Thailand. Why would anyone put food starch and cellulose on the pizza...or on anything for that matter? 

I can tell you....it is in order to save money by putting less of the main ingredient, hard cheese, in the container. 

It's just a very low quality product. 

 

As to comparisons, it was you who brought up SarVecchio and you who appears so dense as to not understand that SarVecchio is never compared to European cheeses in Frome, because there is no Parmesan category there. Check it for yourself

 

So it might win Best USA Cheese or some other obscure category. Which clearly fools some gullible Americans.

 

You really seem exactly like Trump. At each turn whatever you write is proven to be a falsehood. But you ignore the reality and trumpet everything you write as a success.

 

I compared like with like with the shaker cheeses and I have compared your SarVecchio cheese with perhaps a Grana Padano Riserva, at best.

 

So don't repeat lies in the hope that no one has read the posts beforehand refuting your false assertions.

 

[KneeDeep]

4 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

On this I mostly agree with you. I'd like to point out that many Americans are also resisting  the worst of the American excesses. The huge rise in micro and craft breweries, the growing popularity of farmer's markets, and  also a growing craft cheese industry suggest many Americans are also uprising against poor food.

 

...and so they should.

MA has got it all wrong. It's nothing to do with being anti the American people, but to open their eyes to what they are eating and what their corporations and government are allowing them to eat.

 

I honestly have never seen so much bad food as when I visited the USA. Chorizo that is not Chorizo, fake cheese.... Acclaimed restaurants that produced a poor copy of the dishes they claimed to recreate.

The problem is that if you haven't travelled and don't know better, you'll think that is how it is supposed to be.

That doesn't mean I had only bad food in the USA. There are definitely restaurants to which I would return and supermarket like Wholefoods obviously have raised the bar.

But not everyone can afford to shop in Wholefoods. 

Instead of acknowledging at least some of my points might be correct, MA prefers to take a polarised stance, making himself look ridiculous. Constantly posting falsehoods with his misleading cutting and pasting.

 

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, KneeDeep said:

 

It seems you are still posting nonsense.

 

I actually compared the Redwood Farms product from USA with the cheapest of the cheap Basics product from one of our supermarkets in the UK(costing 43 baht).

 

The American product contains only 63.7% hard cheese, the rest being made up of food starch and cellulose(made from wood pulp or cotton).

 

The Italian product sold in the U.K for 43 baht contains 100% hard cheese. No additives.

Why in Europe do they not feel the need to add nearly 37% of fillers? Why only in the USA?

 

So the American product is clearly heavily adulterated, yet costs 200 baht in Thailand. Why would anyone put food starch and cellulose on the pizza...or on anything for that matter? 

I can tell you....it is in order to save money by putting less of the main ingredient, hard cheese, in the container. 

It's just a very low quality product. 

 

As to comparisons, it was you who brought up SarVecchio and you who appears so dense as to not understand that SarVecchio is never compared to European cheeses in Frome, because there is no Parmesan category there. Check it for yourself

 

So it might win Best USA Cheese or some other obscure category. Which clearly fools some gullible Americans.

 

You really seem exactly like Trump. At each turn whatever you write is proven to be a falsehood. But you ignore the reality and trumpet everything you write as a success.

 

I compared like with like with the shaker cheeses and I have compared your SarVecchio cheese with perhaps a Grana Padano Riserva, at best.

 

So don't repeat lies in the hope that no one has read the posts beforehand refuting your false assertions.

You think we are all silly?  1.  You did not compare grated cheese available in Thailand.  2. Did you taste the grated cheese in the OP?  Yes or no?  3. Did you compare price and taste grated cheeses available in Thailand?  Did you taste SarVecchio?  No of course not.  You didn't compare anything we are discussing in this thread. 

 

The anti American conclusions you draw without tasting the cheese you are talking about are nonsense. 

 

If you want to know if a cheese is good or suitable for your purpose taste it. 

[marcusarelus]

15 minutes ago, KneeDeep said:

 

...and so they should.

MA has got it all wrong. It's nothing to do with being anti the American people, but to open their eyes to what they are eating and what their corporations and government are allowing them to eat.

 

I honestly have never seen so much bad food as when I visited the USA. Chorizo that is not Chorizo, fake cheese.... Acclaimed restaurants that produced a poor copy of the dishes they claimed to recreate.

The problem is that if you haven't travelled and don't know better, you'll think that is how it is supposed to be.

That doesn't mean I had only bad food in the USA. There are definitely restaurants to which I would return and supermarket like Wholefoods obviously have raised the bar.

But not everyone can afford to shop in Wholefoods. 

Instead of acknowledging at least some of my points might be correct, MA prefers to take a polarised stance, making himself look ridiculous. Constantly posting falsehoods with his misleading cutting and pasting.

Nothing to do with this thread.  Nothing to do with Parmesan cheese.  Blathering about how bad this and that is in America.  

 

Eat some cheese in Thailand if you want to talk about it.  I don't want to know anything about cheese prices or availability in the UK.  I don't live there and will never visit.  Try coming to Thailand and buy some cheese.

[KneeDeep]

33 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You think we are all silly?  1.  You did not compare grated cheese available in Thailand.  2. Did you taste the grated cheese in the OP?  Yes or no?  3. Did you compare price and taste grated cheeses available in Thailand?  Did you taste SarVecchio?  No of course not.  You didn't compare anything we are discussing in this thread. 

 

The anti American conclusions you draw without tasting the cheese you are talking about are nonsense. 

 

If you want to know if a cheese is good or suitable for your purpose taste it. 

 

 

In answer to your questions...

 

No. Just you. Even people who may have agreed with you earlier can see there is nothing anti American in my posts. In fact I hope some, through my posts will question why they are eating chlorinated chicken, hormone injected beef etc

 

No I did not and will not put that Redwood Farms rubbish into my body. Why would I want to put Cellulose and unidentified food starch in my body when I actually want to eat cheese?

Are you suggesting that the cellulose and food starch make it taste better?

Seriously my friend, you have dug yourself into a huge hole. Why don't you just stop?

Trying to change the subject to anti-Americanism is doomed to failure.

 

Yes, I look at the price and quality of cheese available in Thailand. 

 

No, SarVecchio hard cheese is not available in the UK and Europe as far as I can see. There would be no reason for me to purchase it in any case. I don't even eat Grana Padano, so why would I eat an American copy?

 

Just like I wouldn't choose to eat chlorinated chicken or hormone injected beef. 

Edited September 14, 2018 by KneeDeep

[KneeDeep]

35 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Nothing to do with this thread.  Nothing to do with Parmesan cheese.  Blathering about how bad this and that is in America.  

 

Eat some cheese in Thailand if you want to talk about it.  I don't want to know anything about cheese prices or availability in the UK.  I don't live there and will never visit.  Try coming to Thailand and buy some cheese.

 

Now you are changing the subject to cheese in Thailand, whilst for the past few days you've been going on about SarVecchio and American cheeses??

 

Moving the goalposts are we?

 

Never been to the UK and don't want to know about it?

All the more ironic when you proclaim yourself the board expert on Pizza Napoletana, having never been to Naples.

 

I buy quality imported cheese in Thailand. Never American.

Edited September 14, 2018 by KneeDeep

[marcusarelus]

10 minutes ago, KneeDeep said:

 

 

In answer to your questions...

 

No. Just you. Even people who may have agreed with you earlier can see there is nothing anti American in my posts. In fact I hope some, through my posts will question why they are eating chlorinated chicken, hormone injected beef etc

 

No I did not and will not put that Redwood Farms rubbish into my body. Why would I want to put Cellulose and unidentified food starch in my body when I actually want to eat cheese?

Are you suggesting that the cellulose and food starch make it taste better?

Seriously my friend, you have dug yourself into a huge hole. Why don't you just stop?

Trying to change the subject to anti-Americanism is doomed to failure.

 

Yes, I look at the price and quality of cheese available in Thailand. 

 

No, SarVecchio hard cheese is not available in the UK and Europe as far as I can see. There would be no reason for me to purchase it in any case. I don't even eat Grana Padano, so why would I eat an American copy?

 

Just like I wouldn't choose to eat chlorinated chicken or hormone injected beef. 

If you did you would know that SarVecchio is not a copy of Grana Padano and tastes nothing like it.  Just to recap.  You evaluated Redwood Farms Parmesan cheese and have never tasted it and SarVecchio and never tasted it.  

Edited September 14, 2018 by marcusarelus

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, KneeDeep said:

 

Now you are changing the subject to cheese in Thailand, whilst for the past few days you've been going on about SarVecchio and American cheeses??

 

Moving the goalposts are we?

 

Never been to the UK and don't want to know about it?

All the more ironic when you proclaim yourself the board expert on Pizza Napoletana, having never been to Naples.

 

I buy quality imported cheese in Thailand. Never American.

Trying to bring up pizza and go off topic again I see.  I'll have to notify the OP. 

[giddyup]

50 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

 The anti American conclusions you draw without tasting the cheese you are talking about are nonsense. 

 

I would say the same about your anti Australian conclusions. Good at giving it out, but a bit of a wimp when it comes back at you.?