Grim reports on climate change say act now or be ready for catastrophe

[Nyezhov]

On 9/27/2018 at 7:22 AM, markaoffy said:

Ah the science deniers are out! Usually the uneducated Stars and Stripes variety


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

You mean the freedom loving skeptics who look askance at Eurosocialist governmental control over peoples lives and economies. 

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Nyezhov said:

You mean the freedom loving skeptics who look askance at Eurosocialist governmental control over peoples lives and economies. 

I've had to google "askance"

I realised that i'm a part-time socialist who looks askance at all the governments who mess it up.

But we get the government we deserve, and the climate is just one problem among the others.

[Catoni]

On 10/1/2018 at 10:13 PM, mauGR1 said:

I've had to google "askance"

I realised that i'm a part-time socialist who looks askance at all the governments who mess it up.

But we get the government we deserve, and the climate is just one problem among the others.

     The climate is not a problem. There is nothing wrong with the climate. It continues to change as it's always done.....sometimes fast, sometimes slow.. sometimes a little....  sometimes a lot......as it's been doing for hundreds of millions or billions of years..  

   It's certain people who are the problem...... authoritarian and dictatorial extreme rightwing and extreme leftwing activists with too much weed and time on their hands wanting to use climate change as a weapon in their arsenal to bring down western industrial capitalism and replace it with some form of Socialism/Marxist Leninism.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Catoni said:

     The climate is not a problem. There is nothing wrong with the climate. It continues to change as it's always done.....sometimes fast, sometimes slow.. sometimes a little....  sometimes a lot......as it's been doing for hundreds of millions or billions of years..  

   It's certain people who are the problem...... authoritarian and dictatorial extreme rightwing and extreme leftwing activists with too much weed and time on their hands wanting to use climate change as a weapon in their arsenal to bring down western industrial capitalism and replace it with some form of Socialism/Marxist Leninism.

I'm sitting on the fence, and i hear people's opinions.

Sometimes i don't have the knowledge or the data to draw conclusions.

I am almost sure about one thing though, the planet is never been so populated as it is now, that means conditions have been excellent for humans to grow in numbers, in the last , let's say, 10000 years.

Paradoxically, high densities of populations are creating not so excellent conditions for human life on the planet.

I am more worried for plastic pollution than climate change.

[kannot]

Thanks for the advice Ill ignore the first and am prepared for the last

[honu]

It's a mistake for people to assume that they can use their own ordinary forms of reasoning and come to a better conclusion than climate scientists in deciding if climate change is a serious problem caused by humans that will be severe in the short term, over the next few decades.  That would go about as well as diagnosing and curing cancer based on experience with eating a balanced diet and exercising.  It's just not relevant.

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, honu said:

It's a mistake for people to assume that they can use their own ordinary forms of reasoning and come to a better conclusion than climate scientists in deciding if climate change is a serious problem caused by humans that will be severe in the short term, over the next few decades.  That would go about as well as diagnosing and curing cancer based on experience with eating a balanced diet and exercising.  It's just not relevant.

Yeah right, so scientists are the gods and we have no right to discuss anything.

nice try, but no cigar.

[utalkin2me]

I remeber 20 years ago I used to "argue" about evolution with the same people on the denier side of this debate. They are all of the same ilk for the most part, these people who habitually deny science (even though they love the comforts modern medicine brings them for example). So, I feel very comfortable lumping them together.

 

They would stop at nothing to deny the existence of evolution! And I mean nothing. It was a flat out falsehood. Evolution does not exist they would proclaim, even though we could see it take place in hours in populations of flies for example. But nope! Evolution was a myth.

 

Interestingly, they have changed their tune. You do not hear this argument much anymore. They have essentially been forced into wising up and stopped saying really really really dumb things. Why? Because at some point, it just became too obvious to everyone how dumb what they were saying really was. And so it goes. I wonder how long it will take for people to wise up in this "debate". 

[mogandave]

I’m 60 and I never met anyone that (as far as I know) has denied evolution in its entirety.

Neither have I met anyone that denies the climate is changing.

I can only imagine where one would meet such people.

[jak2002003]

39 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I’m 60 and I never met anyone that (as far as I know) has denied evolution in its entirety.

Neither have I met anyone that denies the climate is changing.

I can only imagine where one would meet such people.

You are very lucky, or you have not spoken to many people outside your well chosen social circle (or been to America).

 

Someone I know denies evolution... when I asked him about fossils, he said the Devil put them there to tempt Christians away from God.  

 

I know many people who deny climate change... saying the same old things... 'the climate has always changes, ice ages, tropical north pole, etc etc'.  They never understand about the millions of years for these things have taken to happen in the past, giving life time to gradually adapt and evolve.  Now there is not enough time... as climate change has been greatly speeded up.

 

What I can never understand is, even if people do not believe in climate change, why they still are against stopping pollution and other destructive things we are doing to the planet?  Do they want to live in a world full of pollution, rubbish and no wild animals or nature left?

 

Also funny how some of these people also distrust scientists or any educated person as they must have 'agendas', yet they are all reaping the benefits of such science every day of their lives with the food they eat, vaccinations, medical treatment, electricity and clean water etc etc.

 

I told my Christian friend he should not go to the hospital for his operation and just ask god to fix him if he really believe in it.  I was not surprised he went to the hospital lol.  

 

 

 

 

[mogandave]

You are very lucky, or you have not spoken to many people outside your well chosen social circle (or been to America).
 
Someone I know denies evolution... when I asked him about fossils, he said the Devil put them there to tempt Christians away from God.  
 
I know many people who deny climate change... saying the same old things... 'the climate has always changes, ice ages, tropical north pole, etc etc'.  They never understand about the millions of years for these things have taken to happen in the past, giving life time to gradually adapt and evolve.  Now there is not enough time... as climate change has been greatly speeded up.
 
What I can never understand is, even if people do not believe in climate change, why they still are against stopping pollution and other destructive things we are doing to the planet?  Do they want to live in a world full of pollution, rubbish and no wild animals or nature left?
 
Also funny how some of these people also distrust scientists or any educated person as they must have 'agendas', yet they are all reaping the benefits of such science every day of their lives with the food they eat, vaccinations, medical treatment, electricity and clean water etc etc.
 
I told my Christian friend he should not go to the hospital for his operation and just ask god to fix him if he really believe in it.  I was not surprised he went to the hospital lol.  
 
 
 
 

I lived and or worked in:
California
Arizona
Nevada
Florida
Georgia
Texas
Tennessee
Delaware
New York
Pennsylvania
North Carolina
South Carolina
Massachusetts
West Virginia
Connecticut
Mexico
Malaysia
India
China
Hong Kong
Taiwan
UAE
Saudi Arabia
Thailand

And I talk to people everywhere I go.

[balo]

Its mostly natural changes , the climate in Scandinavia was warmer back in the 15th century .  And the solar spots also got something to do with this.  So it's not judgement day 4 years from now , that's utter nonsense. 

 

[jak2002003]

7 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

I lived and or worked in:
California
Arizona
Nevada
Florida
Georgia
Texas
Tennessee
Delaware
New York
Pennsylvania
North Carolina
South Carolina
Massachusetts
West Virginia
Connecticut
Mexico
Malaysia
India
China
Hong Kong
Taiwan
UAE
Saudi Arabia
Thailand

And I talk to people everywhere I go.
 

 

Wow you have got about a bit.  And you have been very fortunate to not have met a single person in all those places that does not believe in climate change or evolution.  

 

 

[neeray]

8 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

 

I lived and or worked in:
California
Arizona
Nevada
Florida
Georgia
Texas
Tennessee
Delaware
New York
Pennsylvania
North Carolina
South Carolina
Massachusetts
West Virginia
Connecticut
Mexico
Malaysia
India
China
Hong Kong
Taiwan
UAE
Saudi Arabia
Thailand

And I talk to people everywhere I go.
 

 

Kind of brings the Johnny Cash tune to mind, "I've Been Everywhere, Man".

[mogandave]

Wow you have got about a bit.  And you have been very fortunate to not have met a single person in all those places that does not believe in climate change or evolution.  
 
 

You are either a liar or have a problem with comprehending what you read.

Please re-read what I said and apologize.

[faraday]

On 10/12/2018 at 12:03 AM, jak2002003 said:

You are very lucky, or you have not spoken to many people outside your well chosen social circle (or been to America).

 

Someone I know denies evolution... when I asked him about fossils, he said the Devil put them there to tempt Christians away from God.  

 

I know many people who deny climate change... saying the same old things... 'the climate has always changes, ice ages, tropical north pole, etc etc'.  They never understand about the millions of years for these things have taken to happen in the past, giving life time to gradually adapt and evolve.  Now there is not enough time... as climate change has been greatly speeded up.

 

What I can never understand is, even if people do not believe in climate change, why they still are against stopping pollution and other destructive things we are doing to the planet?  Do they want to live in a world full of pollution, rubbish and no wild animals or nature left?

 

Also funny how some of these people also distrust scientists or any educated person as they must have 'agendas', yet they are all reaping the benefits of such science every day of their lives with the food they eat, vaccinations, medical treatment, electricity and clean water etc etc.

 

I told my Christian friend he should not go to the hospital for his operation and just ask god to fix him if he really believe in it.  I was not surprised he went to the hospital lol.  

 

 

 

 

 

Your post is

a bit muddled, & confused in parts imo.

 

I'm not going to dissect it though - don't have the inclination. However, the part I've bolded & underlined, just is not, correct.

 

I really do not subscribe to all the scaremongering over cc, but am very concerned about taking care of what we have in the world. And our only (probably) chance to do so.

 

Your paragraph superceeding the one I just mentioned, is even more odd....

 

It has the tone, that almost says that people who don't think cc is real, are not educated. Wow.

 

As for your final paragraph. Seems as if you're another person who doesn't believe in God (ok, up to you), but also dismisses the good that has been & is done, through people's belief in a God. I was brought up in the early 60's as a Catholic. I have experienced both the good & the bad.

 

Btw, just bought some new coffee, think that's why I can write so much at 05:30!!

 

Enjoy your day....

 

[zzaa09]

The end is near.

[faraday]

1 hour ago, zzaa09 said:

The end is near.

 

[mauGR1]

On 10/12/2018 at 2:41 AM, balo said:

Its mostly natural changes , the climate in Scandinavia was warmer back in the 15th century .  And the solar spots also got something to do with this.  So it's not judgement day 4 years from now , that's utter nonsense. 

 

Judgement day, it can come any moment, or after 1 million year, it just takes a good-sized asteroid.

Or a few volcano erupting at the same time, or as you say, unusually powerful solar flares.

Worrying about temperature rising 1 degree looks rather futile.

I would advocate working long-term on developing sustainable renewable energies, and face the plastic pollution issue, immediately.

 

[jak2002003]

11 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

You are either a liar or have a problem with comprehending what you read.

Please re-read what I said and apologize.

 

I am confused........what do you want me to apologise to you for?   

 

[VincentRJ]

The recent hurricane Michael which hit Florida is yet another example of the inability of societies to learn from history. Hurricanes are a regular occurrence in that part of the USA and have caused extensive damage and loss of life on many occasions since the time accurate records were kept, and presumably long before accurate records were kept.

 

There is no reason to suppose that the hurricanes will not continue to make landfall, year after year, regardless of CO2 levels.

 

Creating alarm about rising CO2 levels, and falsely describing it as a pollutant, will of course encourage the development of electric vehicles, solar panels, and other alternative supplies of energy, some of which might eventually be as efficient as fossil fuel, and perhaps even more efficient, taking everything into consideration, such as the health and environmental costs of mining and burning coal and gas.

 

However, in the meantime, owning an electric car and covering the roof of one's house with solar panels, is not going to protect one from the next hurricane to hit Florida, or the next hurricane to hit any of the other numerous locations in the world that are frequently subjected to hurricanes or cyclones.

 

This latest hurricane to hit Florida is described in the Australian media as the 3rd worst ever. However, according to the National Hurricane Center, it is the 3rd worst since 1935. The hurricane of 1935, when CO2 levels were significantly lower, had much higher wind speeds at landfall.

 

The following graphs are based upon the National Hurricane Center Data. The trend line in intensity is flat, and the trend line in numbers of storms is down during the last century or so.
In other words, since the year 1900, there has been no observable increase in hurricane frequency or intensity in that part of the world. According to the data, the 1935 hurricane was not only the most intense hurricane with the strongest winds to make landfall in Florida, but also in the entire USA continent, since 1900.

 

Why would anyone who is aware of the historical record imagine that they will be protected from the next hurricane if mankind reduces atmospheric CO2 levels? That's what I call true denialism; denying the reality of climate.

[mogandave]

I am confused........what do you want me to apologise to you for?   
 

For lying about what I said.

[jak2002003]

58 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

For lying about what I said.

 

Please tell me where I lied about anything you said.

 

Are you confusing me with another poster?  I an not being funny, but I can see what you are referring to.

 

I re read you post and mine and don't get what the problem is.

 

 

[mogandave]

Please tell me where I lied about anything you said.
 
Are you confusing me with another poster?  I an not being funny, but I can see what you are referring to.
 
I re read you post and mine and don't get what the problem is.
 
 

You lied about what I said in 433 and if you actually reread what I said I think you are either lying now or you’re just a fool.

[jak2002003]

9 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

You lied about what I said in 433 and if you actually reread what I said I think you are either lying now or you’re just a fool.

 

You are now calling me a liar and a fool.  Nice.  

 

No idea what you are talking about, and since you have not told me, despite me asking you 3 times what I wrote that upset you so much, I can only conclude you are making stuff up to cause a problem.  I am not going to apologise to you for something I have no idea what I did to upset you.

 

 

[VincentRJ]

9 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

You lied about what I said in 433 and if you actually reread what I said I think you are either lying now or you’re just a fool.

 

What's the problem, Mogandave? I don't see that Jak is lying, although there is always the potential for misinterpretation when people simplify the term,' Anthropogenic-induced climate change' and just write 'climate change', as in 'climate change denier'.

 

The term 'climate change denier' is sloppy and misleading. No-one who has any understanding of climate would deny the fact that climate is always changing, regardless of any influences from mankind's activities.
The current warming seems quite natural in relation to previous warm and cool periods, such as the Roman Warm Period, followed by the cooler Dark Ages, followed by the Medieval Warm Period, followed by the Little Ice Age.
That mankind's activities have contributed to the current warming, to some slight degree, is a reasonable deduction.

 

I think Jak is replying to your post #431 within the context of your previous posts, such as post #429 where you wrote, "I’m 60 and I never met anyone that (as far as I know) has denied evolution in its entirety. Neither have I met anyone that denies the climate is changing. I can only imagine where one would meet such people."

[johnnybangkok]

Climate change is a hoax perpetrated by 97% of the world’s scientists who have conspired to create an imaginary environmental crisis, only to be exposed by a plucky band of affiliated politicians, billionaires and oil companies. 

[lespaulTV]

They need more money.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Climate change is a hoax perpetrated by 97% of the world’s scientists who have conspired to create an imaginary environmental crisis, only to be exposed by a plucky band of affiliated politicians, billionaires and oil companies. 

If what you say is true, it would be a paradox, given that the big capitals can afford to pay the more and the best scientists.

[johnnybangkok]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

If what you say is true, it would be a paradox, given that the big capitals can afford to pay the more and the best scientists.

I’m obviously being facetious.