Thailand re entry problem for long time Thai traveller

[bangkoken]

11 hours ago, TerrylSky said:

Thank you for your replies, gentlemen.

To help clarify, I have been living technically legally in Thailand when I am there. I also travel around the world, return to the U.S. as desired, followed the prescribed law which falls into 'tourist' activities, do not work illegally, am 61 (don't want retirement visa yet). and am single. Previous visa apps have been overseen by my attorney and visa immigration in Mae Said with approval. They  know us - for many years. So, I am legal. As for now, I am attempting to obtain a tourist visa, and according to THAI LAW as prescribed to visa applicants online (which may not mean much to some), I meet the criteria of obtaining a tourist visa, i.e. exit flight, accommodations, monthly income, not working in Thailand, guarantor, cash in the Thai bank, cash in another Thai bank, and cash in an American bank. There is nothing that says you can not have unlimited tourist visas in a year. There is a new law that says you can only do a visa on arrival twice in 12 months (which I've already done of course).  Thanks for your comments.

You don't want a retirement visa? That alone shows that you are not thinking right. You would rather have these visa difficulties? Something is just not right.

[lkv]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The PP Thai-Embassy has become increasingly unfriendly in recent years.  They put the "extra stamp" on my TR Visa from them when it was only the 3rd TR Visa in my passport (the other two were from Penang and Laos).  The "extra stamp" means one can not get another TR Visa from many consulates.  I would only go there for a TR Visa if I had a new passport, and only once.

Promised you an update but forgot to update.

 

So yeah 3 SETVs so far this year (new passport issued Dec 17).

 

1×home country EU

1× Phnom Pehn

1x Phnom Pehn

 

All extended.

 

Plus 3 single reentry permits, some on the visa itself some on the extension.

 

No red stamp. 

 

Was thinking to do a 3rd in a row in this Phom Pehn, but I may be ultimately playing lottery, so decided on Hong Kong. That's coming up next week.

 

I aware of some not so fortunate reports about HK but I still believe it to be a good choice.

Edited September 21, 2018 by lkv

[rickudon]

54 minutes ago, bangkoken said:

You don't want a retirement visa? That alone shows that you are not thinking right. You would rather have these visa difficulties? Something is just not right.

Absolutely agree. A 12 month or one year Non-immigrant 'O' visa obtained in the USA and he could come and go for at least 12 months with no hassles. He has property and bank accounts in Thailand and visits many times a year? Not a tourist.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, duanebigsby said:

My point was it's up to the IO.

Multiple exempts and tourist visas over many years will look like he's not a tourist, rather someone living here.

Legally, the OP is using existing laws to live here.

I think he is  stretching  the definition of tourist and some IO will take exception to it eventually.

(which is what happened)

The Thai "definition of Tourist" in play, legally, defines the behavior of the person in question - what they may or may not do while in Thailand.  The OP seems to be abiding by that behavior-code. 

 

That said, I do agree that IOs at certain checkpoints (some Airports and the Poipet/Aranya border) could pretend that there is a definition of "tourist" in the law based on undefined time-limits - though no such definition actually exists - then "enforce" their made-up law on him by rejecting-entry, while stamping his passport with a different "real rule" which is not applicable to their stated-rationale.  This has been reported several times.

 

My suggested solution, for those who spend more time here, is to avoid locations where IOs make up their own rules, and stick to the locations where they abide by what is in the law and published regulations.

[orchis]

I got a SETV at Kuala Lumpur yesterday. I already had 2 from Vientiane (with a border hop in between) in this passport.
It was easy; I followed the checklist on the Kuala Lumpur Thai embassy site. Not many people there applying for TR visa. 
Also, I arrived at opening time and was only the 25th person in the queue. The SETV was 150 ringit, about 1180 thb. 
Over some years it was my 2nd TRvisa at KL, not in the same passport though. I have always avoided PP because of its reputation being difficult.
 

Edited September 21, 2018 by orchis

[LukKrueng]

13 hours ago, TerrylSky said:

Thank you for your replies, gentlemen.

To help clarify, I have been living technically legally in Thailand when I am there. I also travel around the world, return to the U.S. as desired, followed the prescribed law which falls into 'tourist' activities, do not work illegally, am 61 (don't want retirement visa yet). and am single. Previous visa apps have been overseen by my attorney and visa immigration in Mae Said with approval. They  know us - for many years. So, I am legal. As for now, I am attempting to obtain a tourist visa, and according to THAI LAW as prescribed to visa applicants online (which may not mean much to some), I meet the criteria of obtaining a tourist visa, i.e. exit flight, accommodations, monthly income, not working in Thailand, guarantor, cash in the Thai bank, cash in another Thai bank, and cash in an American bank. There is nothing that says you can not have unlimited tourist visas in a year. There is a new law that says you can only do a visa on arrival twice in 12 months (which I've already done of course).  Thanks for your comments.

As mentioned in an earlier reply, you can't live legally in Thailand on a tourist visa / visa exempt. You can only VISIT Thailand on those.

As for you meeting the criteria of obtaining a tourist visa - granting or denying a visa is still up to the consular department at the embassy.

A person I know had a multiple entry visa to the USA and "visited" the US very frequently, never overstayed his permit to stay. However, on his last arrival to the US the IO has decided this person is spending too much time in the US as a tourist and grilled him about it. Eventually this person was denied entry and actually banned from entering the USA for a while (I don't remember for how long). His wife, also on a tourist visa was pregnant at the time and had a letter from a Dr. saying she can't travel until after giving birth. Using this document she managed to get extension of stay, however her husband was not allowed to go back to the US even for a short visit to see her...

[jackdd]

3 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

As mentioned in an earlier reply, you can't live legally in Thailand on a tourist visa / visa exempt. You can only VISIT Thailand on those.

Depends on which definiton for "living" you choose. I think Thai law does not include a definition of "living", so everybody can have his own personal opinion regarding this topic and you won't find a common point to which everybody will agree.

[lkv]

32 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

A person I know had a multiple entry visa to the USA and "visited" the US very frequently, never overstayed his permit to stay. However, on his last arrival to the US the IO has decided this person is spending too much time in the US as a tourist and grilled him about it. Eventually this person was denied entry and actually banned from entering the USA for a while (I don't remember for how long). 

Well yeah but Thailand is not the US.

 

And as a counter argument to people that say: "well why should it not be like the US", have a look over the window. When it starts to look like America, maybe then we would expect more strict Immigration also.

 

The reason for it being more strict nowadays is because of a military non democratically elected government.

[Chivas]

Its a pity Thai immigration dont give out a clear statement to all visitors what is and isnt acceptable as regards entry

Its even more farcical that certain embassy are "easier" than others

 

Give a clear statement out. If you under retirement age than you can have two tourist visas a year (or whatever) and 3 exempt entries (or whatever) and just stick to it

 

Maximum 180 days a year combined on either (or whatever)

How can it be soooo difficult

Edited September 21, 2018 by Chivas

[balo]

12 hours ago, TerrylSky said:

Wpoce, With a retirement visa there is the issue of substantial money in the bank and/or hefty monthly income (3k US?), plus as I frequently travel in my own right, I don't want to be in Thailand for a full year anyway.  Thanks.

 

Just use an agent and pay around 20k baht in fees , and you'll get your visa based on retirement. They will borrow you the 800k and you can get your visa within a few days. 

It's a lot easier to have a 1 year visa , you can travel in and out of Thailand with a re-entry permit as many times you wish . 

 

You are actually wasting your money on short stay visas.  Totally unnecessary since you are over 50 as most of us. 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2018 by balo

[ericthai]

3 hours ago, lkv said:

 

The reason for it being more strict nowadays is because of a military non democratically elected government.

Dont know where you got this idea but the crack downs in visas started long before the current govt took charge.

[9KPhalak]

Contact your lawyer, sell your house and go somewhere else.  The Thai government makes it very difficult for farangs to stay in Thailand.  This is only going to get worse in the future. 

[AYJAYDEE]

10 minutes ago, 9KPhalak said:

Contact your lawyer, sell your house and go somewhere else.  The Thai government makes it very difficult for farangs to stay in Thailand.  This is only going to get worse in the future. 

none of my friends seem to have any difficulty

 

[thesetat2013]

what makes you think you can not get a visa in areival just because you are American? i believe that only applies if you are travelling from America..  i am American and get VOA all the time coming from China and the Philippines.. and have never needed to show money or return tickets as well.. 

I do not think your issue is with getting the visa or being allowed into Thailand on a VOA.  I think you have abused your privileges by living in Thailand illegally using tourist visas.. 

You comment about not wanting a retirement visa because you don't want to stay a year is ludicrous. Simply because you can get multiple reentry stamp for that and travel to and from Thailand freely. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by thesetat2013
typo

[AYJAYDEE]

1 minute ago, thesetat2013 said:

what makes you think you can not get a visa in areival just because you are American? i believe that only applies if you are travelling from America..  i am American and get VOA all the time coming from Thailand and the Philippines.. and have never needed to show money or return tickets as well.. 

I do not think your issue is with getting the visa or being allowed into Thailand on a VOA.  I think you have abused your privileges by living in Thailand illegally using tourist visas.. 

You comment about not wanting a retirement visa because you don't want to stay a year is ludicrous. Simply because you can get multiple reentry stamp for that and travel to and from Thailand freely. 

VOA or Visa Exemption?

[thesetat2013]

4 hours ago, balo said:

 

Just use an agent and pay around 20k baht in fees , and you'll get your visa based on retirement. They will borrow you the 800k and you can get your visa within a few days. 

It's a lot easier to have a 1 year visa , you can travel in and out of Thailand with a re-entry permit as many times you wish . 

 

You are actually wasting your money on short stay visas.  Totally unnecessary since you are over 50 as most of us. 

 

 

 

that's illegal and soon the gov will be cracking down on this

[AYJAYDEE]

2 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

that's illegal and soon the gov will be cracking down on this

surprised Thai Visa allows this kind of advice!!

[BuckBee]

55 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

that's illegal and soon the gov will be cracking down on this

What bit like they did with taxi mafia and over charging for lottery tickets ?

The way things going they won't need crack down on immigrants as they be leaving of own free wil when next protests or worse kicks off .

 

OP would be indeed best getting retirement and multi re-entry permit, far simpler and cheaper .

I think OP also need review his lawyer/immigration connection as they given him awful advise and fact he in PP which one of worst for repeat tourists was rather silly .

You could get new passport and educate yourself on better locations for set's but you would be way way smarter going retirement route .

[Dexlowe]

14 hours ago, jgarbo said:

Correct. You don't "live" in a country, unless unless you pay rent or maintenance fees, argue with your neighbors, your wife/woman, buy fruit from the old gal in the soi, chat with the Isarn girls in 7-11 (in Lao), complain about taxes, in the local language, have locals friends who can tolerate your crazy ideas, and enjoy about 85% of what's happening. If  not - you're a tourist, a deaf, mute, voyeur visiting the country. OK? 

You forgot -- tuck 200 baht in your driving licence folder.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, BuckBee said:

What bit like they did with taxi mafia and over charging for lottery tickets ?

 

Don’t forget the cleansing of mafia elements from Koh Tao.

[Peterw42]

3 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

that's illegal and soon the gov will be cracking down on this

Technically not illegal, a retire extension via an agent is done by a high ranking Immigration officer, with discretionary powers , who can approve an extension without money in the bank. Its a legal extension approved by an immigration officer. Its probably not fair that the general public doesn't have access to the high ranking officer, but not really illegal.

Where are the reports of cracking down ?

 

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Peterw42

[duanebigsby]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Technically not illegal, a retire extension via an agent is done by a high ranking Immigration officer, with discretionary powers , who can approve an extension without money in the bank. Its a legal extension approved by an immigration officer. Its probably not fair that the general public doesn't have access to the high ranking officer, but not really illegal.

Where are the reports of cracking down ?

 

 

You've just described corruption at its finest! ?

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

You've just described corruption at its finest! ?

Yes, I suppose it is. But is it any different to say, going to the bank for a loan and the loan officer says no, then you pay your accountant to meet with the bank manager, who then says yes.

 

[duanebigsby]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, I suppose it is. But is it any different to say, going to the bank for a loan and the loan officer says no, then you pay your accountant to meet with the bank manager, who then says yes.

 

Is your accountant giving the bank manager a bribe?

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

that's illegal and soon the gov will be cracking down on this

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Where are the reports of cracking down ?

Considering the volume of money, and the high-level that must be involved for "no money" extensions to be advertised publicly, it would take someone with a lot of rank and guts to put an end to it.

 

I'd be happy if they just "cracked-down" on IOs who won't follow the published rules for in-person applicants.  At Chang Wattana you can use an agent - or not use one - but no "extra rules / docs" are invented to try to force you to an agent. 

 

I don't really care what others do, provided it doesn't wreck the system for the rest of us.  But, at some offices, the agent-system has made a mockery of the process for everyone.

 

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Technically not illegal, a retire extension via an agent is done by a high ranking Immigration officer, with discretionary powers , who can approve an extension without money in the bank. Its a legal extension approved by an immigration officer. Its probably not fair that the general public doesn't have access to the high ranking officer, but not really illegal.

The Imm-official who approves the application doesn't waive the financials - just the 2 or 3 months seasoning.  Reports indicate that the 800K is put in the bank and withdrawn the same day (by the agent), with a bank-letter printed in the interim. 

 

Obviously, that discretion was intended for use in cases where an applicant had extenuating circumstances.  As an example: hospitalization and use of the funds to pay medical-costs during the seasoning-period, with subsequent "topping-up" before the extension-application is submitted.  Unfortunately, people in such situations report being given the shaft (leave and start over), while this discretion is, instead, traded for brown-envelopes.

[TSF]

6 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

You've just described corruption at its finest! ?

TIT mate, Thais and corruption, go together like a horse and carriage.

[stud858]

I'd recommend going back to US between METV visas for 2 or 3 months. People staying long term in Thailand  like that never have problems of suspicion put upon them.

So I believe anyway. Otherwise you are in much greater chance of being hassled. 

 

[rott]

22 hours ago, bangkoken said:

You don't want a retirement visa? That alone shows that you are not thinking right. You would rather have these visa difficulties? Something is just not right.

He did not know that there was a multi re-entry permit. And refers to the VE as a VOA so was not very well briefed on the subject. Probably now has realised there is no need for any problem.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, stud858 said:

I'd recommend going back to US between METV visas for 2 or 3 months. People staying long term in Thailand  like that never have problems of suspicion put upon them.

So I believe anyway. Otherwise you are in much greater chance of being hassled. 

 

Unfortunately, persons who stay even less have been under suspicion - though not of any legal violation.  One visitor from Europe reported they come every year, stay 5-6 mo, then go home the rest of the year.  Upon their last entry, they were grilled and threatened with rejected-entry for "staying too long" after having been "home" for 6 months, each time, between these annual visits.

When there are no set rules beyond "what I say goes," anything can happen - and that is the only consistent rule at Bangkok airports, these days.

Edited September 22, 2018 by JackThompson

[garyk]

On 9/21/2018 at 5:57 PM, TSF said:

You're 61, you have money in the bank, why aren't you on annual retirement extensions, then you don't have to go through all this crap. I'm on retirement extensions for the past decade or longer, I don't stay in Thailand all the time, I have a multi-re-entry stamp, so come and go like a Thai, every few months I'm traveling to Cambodia or Vietnam or Australia and returning to Thailand when I want with no issues at all.

Same here, I travel in and out of Thailand at will. 

A retirement extension is the only way to go.