Mental Health/drugs Problem With Thai Wife

[helicoptor]

Simon,

I have read your threads for a while and I really feel for you as you are a genuine hard-working, often humourous, down to earth bloke who doesn't deserve any of what you are going through at the moment.

The second step is trying to convince your wife that running away is not the answer to the problem, but first she has realise the first step..to ACKNOWLEDGE that a problem exists; this it appears is the sticking point as you state that she maintains that she is 'OK'.

It has been suggested by you and other posters that the change of environment/pressure of a new business/drugs/miscarriage/new baby are all playing a major part here - maybe a short break, just the two of you to get away from all these factors might help..

Good advice you gave yourself is to hire a Hotel Manager (ASAP) then invite her to join you in some of the activities that you know she used to enjoy before, away from all the above I mentioned earlier - but keep in mind that expecting too much too soon can lead to her developing feelings of failure.

I am sure you are by the very least attempting to give emotional support.

There is no quick fix here, improvement may take several weeks - that first step is the foundation for any progress for you both.

Apologies for my inarticulate posting - there are many others on TV who maybe would and will put it across to you better

Best of luck

Heli

[sriracha john]

Sort of reemphasizes my point about the doctor's incompetence.

She needs hospitalization and proper treatment for her mental illness first. Her addictions, while important to address, become secondary.

I would encourage to read up on bipolar illness as your knowledge and understanding of this profoundly impairing disorder are important for her success. Take heart in knowing that many, many people DO achieve success in overcoming its potentially devastating effects.

I wish you both all the best and hope you are able to find a suitable facility with a capable physician for her in Udon.

Edited February 15, 2007 by sriracha john

[MiG16]

dear Simon

Im very sorry to hear about all the hardships you and the family are going through. many people have given lots of really good practical advice, as well as words of encouragement and admiration. all that you truly deserve. I really wish there is more we can do for you.

a friend in Aus is in a somewhat similar situation, minus the getting drunk I think. his wife is depressive, and also paranoia...I dont know the exact medical terms of it, but somehow hes managed to maintain the relationship for years....they are married, have a daughter and now a son of 1 year old. amazing guy! I think the 2 of you could have a lot to share with each other. perhaps it will help you a little if you get to talk (email) to him? might help you a little bit emotionally in how to cope with it all.

feel free to PM me if you wish. and in any case, wish you both the best. i really hope it works out and things improve for you soon.

regards,

[benw]

Simon,

One thing you should be aware of is if they just medicate her it does nothing to treat the cause. Medication was never meant to be a long term fix but only a tool to stabilize if necessary. Simply someone needs to get inside her head to help her sort this out. Depending on what approach is used that can be a short or long road to recovery. If the drugs she was taking are highly addictive like crack cocaine then you are in it for the long haul. Don’t be afraid to ask for therapy other than a pill, if you love her then you owe it to her to give her the very best available. She does not need to understand the therapy and what it does, only that it will help her get better.

What you're saying John, is true some of the time, but not all of the time. There are people, with serious psychiatric illness, who benefit from taking medication for the rest of their lives. This would include folks suffering from schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. It is clear that the decision to use and stay on medication is an individual one, made by the person in collaboration with their family, friends and professional helpers. No adult can or should be compelled to take any medication against their will. At the same time, for severe psychiatric illness, medication is intended as an essential component of long term treatment alongside various therapies and case management. Making statements like the above has the potential to reinforce stigma and keep people away from medication who might benefit.

Simon's situation is heart wrenching and his devotion is impressive. If the diagnosis is bipolar disorder, then Simon's wife would probably benefit from being on medication for a long time, even when she is symptom free (which is when many folks suffering from severe psychiatric illness stop taking their meds and relapse). Simon and his wife (and her family) need to be open to considering this possibility and supporting her in making healthy choices.

[simon43]

Another day

My wife is quite lucid and relaxing at our hotel. She'll leave tomorrow. She fully understands that she is unwell and has confidence in me and the doctors to help her through this difficult time.

Simon

[jumnien]

Another day

My wife is quite lucid and relaxing at our hotel. She'll leave tomorrow. She fully understands that she is unwell and has confidence in me and the doctors to help her through this difficult time.

Simon

I remember quite well my wife saying she would do ANYTHING if I would stop using. Her and her friend were willing to sit with me 24 hours a day to watch and make sure I wouldn't leave the house. At around 3am I faked a bathroom run, grabbed my car keys, and ran out of the house, hopped in my car and sped off with them screaming behind me. Twenty minutes later I obtained the object of my compulsion and obsession one more time, and then one more time, and then one more time. Addiction was far stronger than I was; it won every time!

I haven't had a drink or drug in almost 12 years now. Clean and sober addicts and alcoholics showed me a path which I continue to follow today. Your wife will surely meet clean and sober women who can help her. I've seen miraculous turnarounds on a continual basis by people following simple steps. I've also seen many relapse and some die who could not. You can see by this forum how many people care and are rooting for your wife to be a winner!

Next weekend I'm meeting 12 Thai addiction specialists and 350 recovering/recovered addict alcoholics at a seminar in Pattaya. If any of the Thai doctors/nurses can be of any service, PM me and I'll refer you to them directly.

[Sheryl]

OK Simon so my hunch was right.

With bipolar disorder she will probably need medication for life, and it will be best if someone can supervise that she takes it. Leaving it to her is risky because bipolar people tend to skip their meds when in the manic phase or between phases, and are at risk of OD during the depressive phases.

With medication she should eventually be able to lead a normal life but of course some prolonged treatment is necessary first.

Let me know if I can be of any help, and good luck to you

Sheryl

[jumnien]

If you treat a bipolar drug addict using medication designed to treat a manic depressive you will, at best, be left with an addict on your hands. Not to downplay the effects of concurrent psychological disorders at all, but, just remember that addiction is a primary disease and fixing other diseases will not make it go away. Find specialists that have a great deal of experience treating BOTH diseases and will let you talk to patients of theirs that have recovered. Otherwise they are just prescribing from a textbook with a large dose of wishful thinking.

[chuchok]

Another day

My wife is quite lucid and relaxing at our hotel. She'll leave tomorrow. She fully understands that she is unwell and has confidence in me and the doctors to help her through this difficult time.

Simon

Firstly,sorry to hear about your problems.

I have a little experience with bi-polar people.One of them a good friend of mine that went from being a normal person to going right off the rails.Unless people have actually seen what this illness can do to people, it is hard to understand.

The one small piece of advise that I can give,is never,ever underestimate the degree of cunning that a person with this condition can use to get their own way.In my mates case,even though he new he was going loopy,he would lie like a flat fish.BTW,he is right as rain ten years on,but will always remain on medication.

Alcohol and illegal drugs only fuel this disese IMO.

Take nothing for granted,but remember that it is very treatable.

getting a very good doctor is the best start.

Good Luck.

[LaoPo]

Another day

My wife is quite lucid and relaxing at our hotel. She'll leave tomorrow. She fully understands that she is unwell and has confidence in me and the doctors to help her through this difficult time.

Simon

Simon, earlier I sent you a PM; did you read it ?

LaoPo

[John K]

Hi Benw, I agree with you but let me add schizophrenia and some other conditions are as a result of physical damage perhaps cause by drug abuse. In that case long term treatment would be the only choice as the brain has lost the ability to regulate itself. I am talking about the vast over prescribing, that is totally uncalled for and used in replacement of proper therapy.

Simon, if I may offer a piece of advice strictly from how the subconscious thinks. You need to put some distance between your wife and the people in question. By removing the temptation of knowing she can be back with them in just a few minutes the desire is diminished. Then the real work can begin.

If you are concerned about her running off again, you can employ one of the tactics used in the states. When ever someone is taken to an emergency room that shows mental instability the first thing they do it take their clothes and give them a hospital gown. I doubt your wife would head off only wrapped in a towel. If she does then it would leave you little options.

If here actions are as a result of drugs remaining in her body then detox would be the first step.

I would be a bit reserved to say bipolar at this point. In my opinion you are describing actions driven by pleasure. If we could push a button to experience an orgasm we would push it continuously until we passed out. The other possibility is the removal of reality, hence the term “happy hour” was born where people dink to take the edge off the day or whatever. In both cases the subconscious approach would be to find something more desirable and less harmful. When that is done then self choice is made to change. Once that is done they take the concept as their own and set out to make it happen. If change is forced on them they will tend to reject it. The therapy method of choice would be NLP (Neuro-linguistic programming). NLP is very effective in bringing about change.

[solo siam]

NLP? Thats a very strange choice of therapy, I can't even imagine it in Thai.

[pumper]

posted before reading through 5 pages ..

so deleted my post after reading the progress..

has a hormonal work up been done?

post partum insanity?

pregnancy = hormonal issues

Edited February 16, 2007 by pumper

[0Mix1up]

You have acted in the best interest of your family.

Respect!!!

(coming from someone who was abandoned by a long term partner during a short period of depression and has 2 older children to someone else who had/has a drug problem, I've seen both sides of those situations to some degree)

One question has she bonded with your child?

[simon43]

I doubt that my wife has been involved in long-term drug use. Until 2 months ago, she seemed in normal health all the time. (By that, I mean that she seemed often slightly moody and underweight. But there was no illogical behaviour on her part).

That all changed when she met some ladyboy friends in Patong, (friends of a business partner). Apparently it was they who encouraged her to take some drugs, to drink, to party etc, to lie to her husband and family. My wife is intelligent but naive. I think she loved being in the limelight with these people, who showered her with compliments as she splashed out using my money.

Today, she travels back to Issan with her family members, and then onto a hospital. Next week, I'll fly up to see the doctors and ensure that she is getting the treatment that she needs. But it is also true that no in-depth analysis has yet been done of her. The removal of her is an immediate action so that she is physically removed from the temptation of these ladyboys.

One comical result of these problems is that several rather lazy family members who have been 'working' at my hotel at my expense have now decided to leave because they have been exhausted by running after my wife all the time! That suits me fine

Simon

[simon43]

Reply to 0mix1up:

Yes, she has bonded with our son. However, she really is not capable of looking after him right now. He is at our hotel right now on a visit, but returns to live with his aunt in BKK for the time being.

[0Mix1up]

Hi S43,

I wasn't saying she had a long term drug problem, only that was my situation though not the same has some similarities.

apologies if thats how it came out.

Hopefully your child can be a positive focus for her.

Try to get her on the best diet possible, in my experience eating healthy and exercise are a great form of cheap self medication, that in the future can be just apart of normal life as aposed to pharmacy medication and doctor visits.

[terryp]

Late yesterday afternoon, she went out with our driver to Tesco Lotus, to buy fruit/veg as reccommended by the doctor to boost her low potassium levels. But she told our driver that there was a better fruit shop in Patong. No sooner did he reach Patong then she jumped out of the car and ran off!

What is the background of your wife; was she involved in the nightlife at all?

If so you really have a massive task at hand. To be truthful it will be almost impossible to get her clean (if she comes back to live on Phuket), as the drug of choice will always be found.

You are dealing with Thai’s who are very addictive people (in general).

I was married to a coke head for 7 years and almost drove me mad, not to mention bankrupt & I ended up on medication.

The longest she stayed away on a binge was 10 days, got pregnant (not mine) aborted, went into 3 clean up clinics…….I had enough; moved on divorced. She now has 3 children and is still on the poison? (8 years later)

Patong is a drug den, ya ba, ecstasy and cocaine are very easy to find...they will even deliver it for you

Be objective, stand back and look at the picture as emotion often fools you, I left mine 4-5 times, she promised never to use again then after a few days would start not coming home again.............I wish you all the luck in the world & the strength you will need as the ride has only just begun (sadly)

[John K]

NLP? Thats a very strange choice of therapy, I can't even imagine it in Thai.

If you are referring to the lack of people that are qualified in Thailand with NLP I would have to agree with you. Other than myself I can’t think of anyone in particular.

I guess I can best explain this by looking at a smoker. The nicotine drives them to do absurd things all to get the next fix ignoring the obvious health concerns. Once they come to the point that they realize it’s ‘game over’ if they continue to smoke, they adopt a new #1 priority. At that point they set out on their new mission and start working on quitting. Because it is their idea at this point to quit and not the idea of someone else, they do everything possible to quit.

Simon in your case finding the reason to quit is the job of the therapist by presenting ideas and observing body language reactions. Once the target is identified the cognitive approach would be taking them step by step working on getting to the goal.

The subconscious approach would be to greatly intensify the contrast between positives and negatives with suggestions. For a smoker, let them experience what it’s like when most of the lung capacity is gone or some other advanced health condition associated with smoking. Also by identifying what their greatest fear is and tying it on a subconscious level to the undesired behavior. By doing that it bypasses the “it will never happen to me” thinking and greatly accelerates the therapy.

[qualtrough]

That all changed when she met some ladyboy friends in Patong, (friends of a business partner). Apparently it was they who encouraged her to take some drugs, to drink, to party etc, to lie to her husband and family. My wife is intelligent but naive. I think she loved being in the limelight with these people, who showered her with compliments as she splashed out using my money.

Simon, I hope you will forgive me if I say that I think you are too willing to make excuses for your wife. What comes across in the paragraph above and others is that you feel that everything would be fine if only she hadn't met these people. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. There is a reason, or there are reasons, why your wife was susceptible to those temptations. If she hadn't run into that crowd she very likely would have run into another crowd that would have led her astray. The first step to finding a solution, if there is one, is discovering what is driving your wife's self-destructive behavior. The bad crowd, while despicable, are not the cause of the problem.

Be careful that you don't ruin your life trying to fix her problems. I know, easier said than done.

[Boo]

Simon I hope you & your wife can get throught his period & that your wife gets the help she needs.

I will echo the above posters observation though, you seem to make a LOT of excuses for your wifes behaviour. At the end of the day only she chose to take the drugs, drink too much, run away from you & her child & steal money. I would suggest that in future you don't let your wife manipulate you (& that is what she has been doing) & you restrict her access to money & don't let her have ANY access to cash cards/credit cards etc. She has abused your trust several times now in only a few days so she should be made to earn it back with regards to money at least. If you don't you may as well have just left her with her katoey friends & given up.

I will say this now & don't get pissed but it is my own observation.... But some of your posts sound like you treat your wife like a child (or a delicate creature) Do you think this could have contributed to the problem at all? I mean, she is obviously a very cunning women when need be so maybe treating her like a little girl or making excuses for her all the time by passing the blame for HER behaviour allows her to thinks that she can act up just the same in the future withhout any real consequence as you will always excuse or forgive her? This isn't a critism of you as you are doing what all good husbands should do, but maybe something to think about whilst she is in this treatment & for when she is out.

Best of luck.

[simon43]

Boo, of course you are right! I have been far too 'soft' with my wife and willing to forgive her when perhaps I should have been much firmer. I suppose that I did not wish to be labelled as the typical farang who doesn't understand Thai culture etc etc. Friends here have made made the same comment and they are right!

I certainly need to change my attitude on this. As I said before, I could easily leave and start again elsewhere. But this situation is problably due to a combination of actions/attitudes etc from both of us, (and not just her). So we both need to change our ways.

My wife thinks that she will be coming back to Phuket in a few weeks. But I really do not think that is a good idea. I suspect that she needs care for many months, and I do not want her to come back prematurely and relapse (and cause business problems) again.

I need to take some legal advice about ownership of our hotel business etc. I think that it would be much better if I were the sole owner of the business (and I believe that a hotel business can be 100% owned by a non-Thai). I need to check into this.

Simon

[bkkmadness]

Boo, of course you are right! I have been far too 'soft' with my wife and willing to forgive her when perhaps I should have been much firmer.

Too right. All I ever see you doing is making excuses for your wife's behavior, before it was the Thai/Asian culture, family responsibilties, now mental health problems and drugs. And the drugs were all given to her by bad ladyboys of course, she was influenced by bad people no doubt, I never seem to see you say 'My wife went out and scored some drugs and went partying all night'. It always seems to be someone else's fault. I know she's your wife but you do seem to view her through rose tinted glasses.

I know it sounds blunt but I have been reading your story from since before she was your wife so I get to see a pattern and call it as seen. I gotta ask, did she have has many problems before she owned 15 million bahts worth of assets in Thailand? You didn't seem to get so much trouble before from her when she was poor, change of attitude maybe? Showing true colours even?

I'd of course continue with the mental health assessment but if I was you I'd start keeping my eyes wide open and working out what might happen in the future. Your probably in a position to lose your hotel right? Worse still, in a position to lose your son, something that can't be replaced with your high income from abroad. Not so easy to leave when there's a kid involved is it? A more cynical bkkmadness would say that's why you have a kid in the first place.

I'd like to see if you can out that hotel into your name 100%, maybe the legal side isn't a problem, but wont your wife have to sign over her ownership? Thats gonna be a true test of trust.

anyway, thats the blunt bkkmadness view and I only put it like that coz all I ever see with Simon43 is a nice guy who has to deal with far too much trouble.

[bkkmadness]

I will echo the above posters observation though, you seem to make a LOT of excuses for your wifes behaviour. At the end of the day only she chose to take the drugs, drink too much, run away from you & her child & steal money. I would suggest that in future you don't let your wife manipulate you (& that is what she has been doing) & you restrict her access to money & don't let her have ANY access to cash cards/credit cards etc.

100% agreed, but surely not so easy to restrict her spending now, she's a wealthy woman isn't she? She has her own cash and at the end of the day no one can put restrictions on that.

I will say this now & don't get pissed but it is my own observation.... But some of your posts sound like you treat your wife like a child (or a delicate creature) Do you think this could have contributed to the problem at all? I mean, she is obviously a very cunning women when need be so maybe treating her like a little girl or making excuses for her all the time by passing the blame for HER behaviour allows her to thinks that she can act up just the same in the future withhout any real consequence as you will always excuse or forgive her

Agreed too. I see too many of these guys talk about their wives as if they are a bit backwards, "treat them like children' is often repeated on this board. I've seen a few references from Simno43 to his wife being a country girl, being a bit naive he said somewhere in this thread and similar. From my own outsider's observation the woman gone from being a poor bargirl with no education to a hotel and land owner in one of the most expensive parts of the country. Some might think her a little naive and backward, other people might call her a shrewd businesswoman who's been underestimated.

[simon43]

Bkkmadness, Thanks and you can be as blunt and honest as you want, because I agree that it is true. Gotta make some big changes here

I'm not really in the position of losing the hotel. It is an 'asset' acquired after marriage, so a divorce would see it split 50/50. Plus, I could divorce based on my wife's mental illness etc. But I do need to restructure things so that my wife can see that I am the one 'in control'. I agree that up to now, she has been the quiet one in control.

Simon

[jasreeve17]

Bkkmadness, Thanks and you can be as blunt and honest as you want, because I agree that it is true. Gotta make some big changes here

I'm not really in the position of losing the hotel. It is an 'asset' acquired after marriage, so a divorce would see it split 50/50. Plus, I could divorce based on my wife's mental illness etc. But I do need to restructure things so that my wife can see that I am the one 'in control'. I agree that up to now, she has been the quiet one in control.

Simon

Simon, please be very very careful how you bring up the idea of restructuring the assets. In your mind the assets are a 50 / 50 split, or perhaps even yours, but in her mind the assets are 100% hers. It's not that she's a bad person, that's how the Thai mind works. Since the first day that monies went into her name they became hers, completely, in her mind - and Thai law (the reality is nationalistic to say the least).

It is very likely that once the idea gets into her head that somebody (you) is trying to steal her money (your "joint" assets) that she will do things that you didn't believe her to be capable of.

I might be out of order to say this, but look at the recent French guy thread. Whilst I am not drawing any parallels between you (an obvously intelligent and mature guy) and the Frenchman (a young and naive boy), money is more important than love and children to some Thai women. I'd suggest that this some is very close to 100%, others will disagree.

So back to the point.

- She's has poor mental health, currently.

- She will side with her family, rather than with you.

- She has shown selfish tendencies.

- Money has changed her. (Money can currupt the best person)

- She has shown a lack of concern for her child, at times.

The money and all the assets are hers, is the worse case scenario, for you. You must know this, and I believe in her unstable mind that thought of losing money / assets will push her further away from you. It's a lose / lose situation for you. Wait until things get much better between you before breaching the subject. If you were both completely in passionate blind love, blissfully happy and stable, it would still be a bad time to restructure your assets.

Good luck, if you're in Bangkok and just fancy a beer to relax, let me know.

Jason

Edited February 17, 2007 by jasreeve17

[chuchok]

What a few posters has missed, is that Simons wife is suffering from a mental illness. If the illness can be 'fixed' or treated then the person can return to a normall way of life.The cunningness,stealing etc is all part and parcel of being ill.

[jasreeve17]

What a few posters has missed, is that Simons wife is suffering from a mental illness. If the illness can be 'fixed' or treated then the person can return to a normall way of life.The cunningness,stealing etc is all part and parcel of being ill.

So all Thais are ill? Thaksin was very very ill?

[chuchok]

What a few posters has missed, is that Simons wife is suffering from a mental illness. If the illness can be 'fixed' or treated then the person can return to a normall way of life.The cunningness,stealing etc is all part and parcel of being ill.

So all Thais are ill? Thaksin was very very ill?

Don't be a tit.

[jasreeve17]

What a few posters has missed, is that Simons wife is suffering from a mental illness. If the illness can be 'fixed' or treated then the person can return to a normall way of life.The cunningness,stealing etc is all part and parcel of being ill.

So all Thais are ill? Thaksin was very very ill?

Don't be a tit.

Wishing to rise above your materful one liners...

The wife's cunningness and stealing are presently exagerated due to her poor mental state, I agree. You'll probably notice that in my post I mentioned to Simon that it would be better to wait until the wife is much better before restucturing assets.

But your words "cunningness and stealing" will be perceived very differently by different people sharing the same situation. When he restructures, which seems normal and logical to me, I suggest that a Thai woman in the wife's situation may feel the threat that Simon is trying to be cunning and steel "her" money. Thus he must be careful.

On a serious cultural note, I believe that the Thai perception of "cunningness and stealing" is very different from mine. I believe that Thaksin was cunning and stole a lot. The Thais I know thought that he was clever and sensibly made personnal gains. I presume that they are right because this is their country, and their rules apply.

An experienced chap like yourself is no doubt aware these different cultural perceptions. Thus why the smart alec comment?