Mental Health/drugs Problem With Thai Wife

[Huw]

Well, what started out as a light-hearted problem about my wife/family and our hotel in Phuket has really taken on a serious note. I would appreciate advice from TV members. (As stated in previous threads, I don't really like to air my 'dirty washing' in public, but I am at my wit's end.)

My wife is 30 and we have been married for 2 years and have a young son of 9 months.

My wife has always been rather frail (physically). She usually weighs about 33kg and is 145cm short! She is a bit of a hypercondriac (spelling), and like to be fussed over by doctors and friends. I love her very much and am 100% faithful.

About 5 weeks ago, she seemed to go 'off the rails'. She started staying out all night with girlfriends and ladyboys, and visiting the Patong Thai karaoke bars. Despite promising to be home by midnight, or not going at all, she continued this bizarre behaviour, apparently oblivious to my concern and that of her family.

On one occasion a few weeks ago, she fell off a motobike taxi in Patong, and miscarried our new baby who was about 2 months in her womb. She seemed not to care.

She then stole our hotel car and crashed it...

The next day, she stole our replacement hire-car and crashed that in Patong into 3 motobikes. She ran off shoeless when the police tried to stop her. I had to pay for all these damages.

Over this period, she stole (and then lost) about 70,000 baht from me, and lost a 2 baht gold becklace from her mother - as well as her ATM cards.

I then found out that she had been taking drugs from her ladyboy 'friends'. This was not yaba, but sleeping pills that were washed down with alcohol.

We managed last week to get her back to our hotel, and then she returned yesterday with her mother to the Issan moobahn. The idea was that she would rest there for a month or so.

This afternoon, after her mother went to work, she 'ran away' again and is now on a minibus going to BKK. We are all very concerned and we have spoken to the minibus driver who is going to deliver her to her aunt's house in BKK. I fly tonight to BKK to bring her back to Phuket tomorrow.

This is the sorry state of affairs and I really do not know what to do with her after she comes back to Phuket. For her, it is a dangerous place and she has already taken small overdoses of sleeping pills before.

I really need to get her into a secure and safe place where she can be looked after and treated. I'll state again that I love her very much and am not going to 'abandon' her - which would be a very easy thing for me to do.

Sorry for this sob story I'd appreciate your advice.

Simon

This will not be the view you want to hear dude, I am sorry it is the only one I have.

My advice is try to change her by reasoning with her. This will not be easy because Thais are not always amenable to reason. If you cannot, then recognise it early and get out as soon as you can. All the experience I have had and have heard of from others suggests that his may not be a short term probem and may even recur at intervals. Unless she actually wants to change, it isnt going to happen and the person who will probably get hurt most is you. Their values and culture are not our values and culture.

Sorry if it seems bleak.

[Huw]

interesting avatar Lib. is there a story behind it? PM perhaps if at all?

[simon43]

Well, an update to say that things really are not working out. I have tried for 2 weeks to get her to stay on the 'good' drugs proscribed by the psychiatrist. But it has been a real strain to stop her 'dreaming'/getting depressed etc etc. Then she said she was just going to see a friend in the village for 10 minutes. 3 hours later and at 11pm I go to find her drunk with her friends...

To be honest, I felt too tired to continue my efforts to help her and I walked out.

This was maybe a coward's way out of the situation. But to be very selfish, I did not come halfway around the world to then spend my time trying to help a mentally ill woman who doesn't seem to want to be helped

Right now, I have felt no regrets at walking out. So maybe it was the right thing to do. (To be honest, all I feel is relief and happiness at not having to worry all the time about her).

For the first time in 3 years I actually spent some of my own money on myself today!! That put a smile on my face

Simon

[sriracha john]

As she is mentally ill by most accounts, she requires hospitalization in a mental hospital that can monitor and control her behavior until she is stabilized. Family, spouse, friends are unsuitable substitutes to the professional care that is necessary to elicit improvement. It's a shame that was not pursued prior to giving up on her.

[jumnien]

Sorry to hear about your wife's inability to deal with her alcohol and drug problems. I'm really glad to hear your are not taking it personally and are taking care of yourself. Stay close to your friends and try to stay positive.

[JacknDanny]

Well, an update to say that things really are not working out. I have tried for 2 weeks to get her to stay on the 'good' drugs proscribed by the psychiatrist. But it has been a real strain to stop her 'dreaming'/getting depressed etc etc. Then she said she was just going to see a friend in the village for 10 minutes. 3 hours later and at 11pm I go to find her drunk with her friends...

To be honest, I felt too tired to continue my efforts to help her and I walked out.

This was maybe a coward's way out of the situation. But to be very selfish, I did not come halfway around the world to then spend my time trying to help a mentally ill woman who doesn't seem to want to be helped

Right now, I have felt no regrets at walking out. So maybe it was the right thing to do. (To be honest, all I feel is relief and happiness at not having to worry all the time about her).

For the first time in 3 years I actually spent some of my own money on myself today!! That put a smile on my face

Simon

Whats happened to the baby?

[LaoPo]

Well, an update to say that things really are not working out. I have tried for 2 weeks to get her to stay on the 'good' drugs proscribed by the psychiatrist. But it has been a real strain to stop her 'dreaming'/getting depressed etc etc. Then she said she was just going to see a friend in the village for 10 minutes. 3 hours later and at 11pm I go to find her drunk with her friends...

To be honest, I felt too tired to continue my efforts to help her and I walked out.

This was maybe a coward's way out of the situation. But to be very selfish, I did not come halfway around the world to then spend my time trying to help a mentally ill woman who doesn't seem to want to be helped

Right now, I have felt no regrets at walking out. So maybe it was the right thing to do. (To be honest, all I feel is relief and happiness at not having to worry all the time about her).

For the first time in 3 years I actually spent some of my own money on myself today!! That put a smile on my face

Simon

I am so sorry to hear this, Simon! really sorry.

Please dont feel like a coward since you're not, knowing the story from the beginning. I have to (unfortunately) agree with most of Sriracha John's post that she needs 'secured' hospitalization and professional help since it's (proven now) almost impossible for you (anyone in fact) to try and help her.

She's very sick/ill but you knew that already....

The question remains: are you willing to have her hospitalized -and pay for it- since you still love her so much...................................or go on with your own life, realizing how difficult it would be to 'say goodbye' to her (and your baby).............?

Take care of yourself !!!

LaoPo

[simon43]

Hi LaoPo - One problem is that I have been unable to find a suitable hospital. The Khon Kaen clinic is not suitable for her (by their own words). The only hospital where she was getting good treatment was Bangkok Phuket Hospital which was costing me about 12,000 baht per day!

Although I have a very good income, it would not cover that sort of cost, (especially since I pay my English ex-wife 200,000 baht per month....)

So, I can't think of a solution right now.

As for our baby, I would certainly like to care for him myself. But I know that really is not practical. He remains in the good care of our Thai aunt/uncle in BKK where he is flourishing. Not ideal I know, but an acceptable solution for the immediate future.

I understand now what previous posters meant when they said that it would be a very hard time for me, (as well as her).

Being callous, I cannot think of a single point in her favour right now as regards money, drugs, alcohol, lying, stealing, gambling, looking after her husband, children etc etc. It's a bit difficult to know where to start

It may be that my leaving her (and not contacting her at all for a few weeks or even months), will 'jolt' her back to some form of sense.

Simon

[bkkmadness]

Whatever you decide keep hanging in there Simon I think I speak for a fair few people on this forum to say you are doing a great job and certainly the best you can.

[LaoPo]

Hi LaoPo - One problem is that I have been unable to find a suitable hospital. The Khon Kaen clinic is not suitable for her (by their own words). The only hospital where she was getting good treatment was Bangkok Phuket Hospital which was costing me about 12,000 baht per day!

Although I have a very good income, it would not cover that sort of cost, (especially since I pay my English ex-wife 200,000 baht per month....)

So, I can't think of a solution right now.

As for our baby, I would certainly like to care for him myself. But I know that really is not practical. He remains in the good care of our Thai aunt/uncle in BKK where he is flourishing. Not ideal I know, but an acceptable solution for the immediate future.

I understand now what previous posters meant when they said that it would be a very hard time for me, (as well as her).

Being callous, I cannot think of a single point in her favour right now as regards money, drugs, alcohol, lying, stealing, gambling, looking after her husband, children etc etc. It's a bit difficult to know where to start

It may be that my leaving her (and not contacting her at all for a few weeks or even months), will 'jolt' her back to some form of sense.

Simon

Thanks Simon...

As for your last sentence: It might be that she will return to Phuket in the situation, she's in, but nothing is for certain. Most likely she's in a bipolar state of mind and needs her medication....if she doesn't take them anything is possible as from now.

Whatever she does, she is and will not be cured if she's not hospitalized but I understand that paying Baht 12,000/day for a long period is not realistic.

You are on a difficult road and since you decided to take care of her -but didn't succeed because of her moodswings/state of mind- you have only one way to choose now and that's your own way.

Whatever happens, I wish you all the best but please, don't feel like you failed because you didn't.

People who are sick need professional help, whether you brake a leg or two or a mental illness...professionals are there to help.

But, if the patient refuses and walks away, even professionals can't help anymore.

LaoPo

[endure]

Doing a quick Google show that Khon Kaen has a psychiatric hospital. Is that any good to you:

http://www.jvkk.go.th/

[simon43]

Just an additional comment to say that the few days 'respite' from her has done me a world of good, and I intend to continue this holiday for a short while. I'm in touch with a medical professional and we will work out a plan of action that exploits the 'nightmare' scenario that she now finds herself in, (ie - husband and major source of support/money has left her etc).

I will use the current situation to help my wife recognise the choices that she has to make. Maybe she still needs to hit rock bottom before it hits home.

Anyway, whilst I am enjoying my holiday, I still remain faithful to her The last thing I want right now is another Thai woman in my bed

Simon

[ThaiPauly]

I cannot say I blame you Simon.

The hardest thing I EVER had to do in my life was walk away from an unstable Wife that I still loved...but could not help.

Like you I spent thousands of pounds trying to find an answer..but there just was'nt one because She needed to WANT to change..and She was never sober enough to want to.

I spent months in h-ll worrying about her, missing her, and of course remembering how things used to be and all the happy times we had before she started drinking again....in the end I had to leave here in the care of her family.

Even when we went to court at 10am in the morning 6 months later to finalise our divorce she was drinking vodka from a water bottle..I felt so sorry for her, I cried for a long time after...but I could do nothing more.

But the long-term outcome is always the same in most cases. If you did everything you could and went to the very edge...you can hold your head up....and you will be rewarded with a better life as I have been....just wait and see, I am not wrong here

Good Luck

TP

[LaoPo]

I cannot say I blame you Simon.

The hardest thing I EVER had to do in my life was walk away from an unstable Wife that I still loved...but could not help.

Like you I spent thousands of pounds trying to find an answer..but there just was'nt one because She needed to WANT to change..and She was never sober enough to want to.

I spent months in h-ll worrying about her, missing her, and of course remembering how things used to be and all the happy times we had before she started drinking again....in the end I had to leave here in the care of her family.

Even when we went to court at 10am in the morning 6 months later to finalise our divorce she was drinking vodka from a water bottle..I felt so sorry for her, I cried for a long time after...but I could do nothing more.

But the long-term outcome is always the same in most cases. If you did everything you could and went to the very edge...you can hold your head up....and you will be rewarded with a better life as I have been....just wait and see, I am not wrong here

Good Luck

TP

Well said TP!

I've been in a similar kind of situation as you described, although not married.

I tried....tried and tried but I 'failed'...(but that's not the right word for it). I fought for her well being and thought I could change/cure her situation for the better. No chance!

Any human being who's suffering from a mental sickness -whatever the cause or reason- knows deep down, that she or he is sick but will deny it at the same time at any cost and will 'blame' the outer world for it's cause.

It's an almost impossible situation (for the partner or family) and a very sad process to go thru, for all parties involved.

I have enormous admiration for you, Simon, and even in your last message you are still trying to help and fight for your wife and that is something very few people have the courage to do since it's so 'energy' consuming.

That's exactly why a few people before said already:

Take care of yourself because if you collapse, than what?

LaoPo

[simon43]

Take care of yourself because if you collapse, than what?

[\quote]

Er.. good point! That's why this little 'holiday' is doing me good. I am aware that if I were not capable of earning a living, then quite a few people would be at a financial disadvantage (my wife, son, daughter, ex-wife and 3 kids in the UK).

I do not like being in the position of being the breadwinner for so many Prefer it to be the other way around . . .

Simon

[LaoPo]

I do not like being in the position of being the breadwinner for so many Prefer it to be the other way around . . .

Simon

Good to see you didn't lose your humor in these circumstances.!

LaoPo

[JacknDanny]

As for our baby, I would certainly like to care for him myself. But I know that really is not practical. He remains in the good care of our Thai aunt/uncle in BKK where he is flourishing. Not ideal I know, but an acceptable solution for the immediate future.

Simon

Simon,

I understand you giving up on your wife. You showed a lot of patience. I dont know if it was just a mental illness or what, but she was not being a wife that is for sure.

However I do not think you should give up on your kid. A baby needs a father and/or mother.........not some aunty or uncle

Its not your babys fault that its mother has turned out to be bad.Dont you turn your back on the baby also.

You say it is not practical....Believe me Simon it IS practical. I have been through a similar situation, where I took sole legal custody of my son when he was 2.

All you have to do is to employ a full time nanny which will allow you to continue working.Surely you can afford that?

Getting legal custody would be simple especially given the condition of his mother.

All I know is that I could not have allowed my son to stay with relatives. He is my son and I want to do what is best for him.

The best for your baby right now is to develop a bond with his father and for you to take care of him.

Dont make a decision that you may regret for life.

[simon43]

JacknDanny - I appreciate your concern for our baby (which you also expressed in previous postings). I'm not about to abandon him. However, we are not talking about downtown Chelsea here! This is Issan. The nearest ATM is over 20 km away. The nearest fresh fruit/veg shop with western baby food is over 100km away.

The aunt and uncle who are temporarily looking after him are good people and it IS the best short-term solution. Yes, I can afford a nanny. But finding a western-style nanny who speaks good English/Thai/Lao is not that practical.

If the final result is that I permanently part with my wife, then indeed, I will seek legal custody of my son, and will be able to bring him up without the assistance of a nanny.

I must pick up on one point you made. 'Its not your babys fault that its mother has turned out to be bad'

That's yet to be demonstrated. Right now, the diagnosis is still 'mad' not 'bad'

Simon

[JacknDanny]

JacknDanny - I appreciate your concern for our baby (which you also expressed in previous postings). I'm not about to abandon him. However, we are not talking about downtown Chelsea here! This is Issan. The nearest ATM is over 20 km away. The nearest fresh fruit/veg shop with western baby food is over 100km away.

The aunt and uncle who are temporarily looking after him are good people and it IS the best short-term solution. Yes, I can afford a nanny. But finding a western-style nanny who speaks good English/Thai/Lao is not that practical.

If the final result is that I permanently part with my wife, then indeed, I will seek legal custody of my son, and will be able to bring him up without the assistance of a nanny.

I must pick up on one point you made. 'Its not your babys fault that its mother has turned out to be bad'

That's yet to be demonstrated. Right now, the diagnosis is still 'mad' not 'bad'

Simon

Sorry Simon you are confusing me.

If you believe she is mad and not bad, then how can you expect her to make sensible decisions. How can you expect her to realise things?

I dont wish to sound judgemental, but if she really is mentally unstable, then surely the hospitalisation at 12K per day is viable.

You stated that you were a man of means. You own a small hotel and have other business interests, surely that is do-able.

Like I say I am not you and it must be difficult, but I feel you are taking the middle ground trying to cover all bets.

I think you should either be in 100% or out 100%.

If you are in then you get your wife the best medical attention money can buy, for however long it takes, and YOU take responsibility for your child, in Phuket. Believe me it aint that difficult to find the right nanny if you are prepared to pay.

If you believe that the best care your baby can have is with people in an Isaan village miles from anywhere, then we are poles apart.

You are his father Simon. The best gift he can have is YOUR love. In my opinion you should take responsibility not pass it over to some relatives.

[simon43]

Yes, we are poles apart. I agree with the Thai concept where the whole family shares in the upbringing of the children.

I am in 100% with my wife and she is the priority right now. Our baby is currently very well cared for and very happy, AND clearly recognises his mum and dad when we visit. The aunt lives in BKK, not Issan (which is why it is a better situation for my son to live with them, not in Issan).

What do you think is better? A 'farang' stranger who is trained as a nanny but probably cannot communicate with my Thai/Lao family? Or a family member who is able to communicate with them and me in Thai and Lao - and who is proving a safe and happy environment for my son?

Believe me when I tell you that my son will return 'home' when my wife is suitably recovered. But he will also benefit from the love and care from all family members, not just his mum and dad.

Simon

[JacknDanny]

I am in 100% with my wife and she is the priority right now.

Simon

I am not a doctor or psychiatrist, but I would have thought that if the above statement is true, then walking out on her as you described a few posts ago, and saying that you intend NOT contacting her for months or weeks, I cannot see how that is helping.

It certainly gives your child confusing signals.

The other point about having a nanny. I was referring to a Thai nanny who could also speak English.

I am sure your relatives can take care of your child adequately. But not as well as you could.

[simon43]

JacknDanny - sorry, but you are not really adding any value to this thread. Please don't be offended when I totally ignore your future comments.

Simon

[JacknDanny]

JacknDanny - sorry, but you are not really adding any value to this thread. Please don't be offended when I totally ignore your future comments.

Simon

Thats upto you Simon. All the best for the future.

Just remember........... : Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didnt

[Sheryl]

Simon,

Have you fully explored the option of having her committed to a government psychiatric hospital? It is possible to have someone committed in Thailand. As several posters have pointed out, she clearly needs hospitalization.

If this were "just" alcohol and drugs, that would be one thing, but she is mentally ill. This same illness makes it impossible for her to understand the need for treatment or cooperate with it.

She needs a fairly long stay in a hospital so the 12,000 baht a day route is really not feasible. But do look into less costly options, particulalry the Somdej Chaophraya Psychiatric Institute . You might want to PM benw, he is a mental health professional and may be able to provide more specific info about various hospitals and also about the procedure for having someone committed.

Good luck

[guru]

Hi Simon,

You probably don't remember me but I met you a couple of times when you had the bar at the back of the soi 1 plaza.

If I've got the right guy, is your wife your girlfiend who ran the bar with you from back then because she is such a sweet little girl.

Anyway I sympathise with you and for what its worth I say take a short holiday, rebuild your energy and then regroup to have another crack. I'm sure the answer is out there but if it can't be found in Isaan maybe professional help in Bangkok??

[MiG16]

following on Sheryl's post..there is also a facility in surat thani. not too far from phuket (where you are), and I know they get lots of foreign patients (many holidaying in samui). the director there is very caring and speaks fluent english. perhaps you would like to contact her and discuss what can be arranged for your wife's care.

feel free to PM if you wish to get more info on the place.

good luck.

[simon43]

Sheryl, Guru, Mig16 - thanks for your help. The doctor in Phuket mentioned the Surat Thani hospital, so there's one option. Also, since I am currently in BKK, I will go and check out the clinic that you mentioned.

Mig16 - Yes, that's my wife! And your advice is well-received. I am staying alone in BKK for a short while and I feel much stronger already - ready to go back into battle. My wife is in BKK with relatives and she will soon start another treatment to see if that can help her. If not, (and I would be surprised if she did not make progress with this proposed treatment), then committal to a hospital seems the only option, (but one where she will be in a safe/secure environment so that further treatment can be given).

Today I paid off more of the bills that she ran up by writing blank cheques! It's still not all resolved, but a few months should clear the financial problems that she created, but it drained my bank account today!!

Simon

[tim armstrong]

While it is true that many psychiatrists and hospitals over medicate, it is also the case that many people who need antidepressent or other psychotropic medication fail to get it, in part because of stigma and well meant but dead wrong advice. Such people often turn to "recreational" drugs or alcohol in an attempt at self-medication.

Another factor to consider is the Thai penchant for forgeting a problem as soon as its manifestations stop...with all types of medications, Thai doctors and hospitals tend to give too short a course.

Your wife sounds to me like she has a definite chemical imbalance in her brain and will certainly need medication, possibly for a long time. If depression is the problem, the shortest time recommended for a course of anti-depressent medication is 6 months, and many people require much longer...some, for life. Even when they also get therapy to resolve the "underlying" issues. Especially people who have been depressed for a long time, their brain chemistry may just not be able to straighten itself out in the absence of medication.

Can't say whether this will be the case with your wife or not, but just be aware that she may need to be on medication a long time and don't hesitate if it is helping her.

Also - be aware that these medications should never be stopped abruptly, they have to be tapered off while under a therapist's or psychiatrists' care.

There is now a large volume of research that indicates that antidepressants are no better than several behaviour therapies. Diagnosing illness that has its roots in social and family problems rather than dysfunctional brain chemistry is a big big issue for mental health services everywhere. Whatever you do, do noy assume medication alone will resolve this issue.

[sriracha john]

While it is true that many psychiatrists and hospitals over medicate, it is also the case that many people who need antidepressent or other psychotropic medication fail to get it, in part because of stigma and well meant but dead wrong advice. Such people often turn to "recreational" drugs or alcohol in an attempt at self-medication.

Another factor to consider is the Thai penchant for forgeting a problem as soon as its manifestations stop...with all types of medications, Thai doctors and hospitals tend to give too short a course.

Your wife sounds to me like she has a definite chemical imbalance in her brain and will certainly need medication, possibly for a long time. If depression is the problem, the shortest time recommended for a course of anti-depressent medication is 6 months, and many people require much longer...some, for life. Even when they also get therapy to resolve the "underlying" issues. Especially people who have been depressed for a long time, their brain chemistry may just not be able to straighten itself out in the absence of medication.

Can't say whether this will be the case with your wife or not, but just be aware that she may need to be on medication a long time and don't hesitate if it is helping her.

Also - be aware that these medications should never be stopped abruptly, they have to be tapered off while under a therapist's or psychiatrists' care.

There is now a large volume of research that indicates that antidepressants are no better than several behaviour therapies. Diagnosing illness that has its roots in social and family problems rather than dysfunctional brain chemistry is a big big issue for mental health services everywhere. Whatever you do, do noy assume medication alone will resolve this issue.

Medications alone have NEVER been a way to resolve psychiatric conditions. In Simon wife's case, she clearly exhibits symptomatology of a bipolar disorder and not depression alone and so I would doubt she's being treated with anti-depressants.

The over-whelming body of evidence indicating dysfunctional brain chemistry in many mental illnesses, including bipolar disorder, speaks for itself. Medications have been responsible for the huge turnaround in the treat-ability of these illnesses, but, to reiterate, have never been the sole avenue.

Edited March 20, 2007 by sriracha john

[Hobox]

I just read through this thread and in my experience this has nothing to do with mental illness, thai culture, babies, men or women. This is just simple addiction. It doesn't have to be heavy drugs, sleeping pills mixed with alcohol almost killed my mother some 10 years ago.

We all thought she were mentally ill as well, but in the end the only thing that finally made her stop running away, stealing, lying and generally destroying our family was the she choose to end it. It took a couple of times but now she has been sober for the last 10 years, but I know if she was to even just taste some alcohol again, it would take years to make her stop again.

Clinics are only good if the patient really want to stop themselves. We wished for a prison to lock her up in so she could give herself a chance of being sober, but rehabs sadly doesn't work that way.