Applied for Thai citizenship but issues with Renunciation letter

[Kwarium]

@Samran and @ubonjoe have their facts straight above. My citizenship application was delayed a few months as I had to get a new letter notarized at the embassy because I intentionally failed to include the phrase ‘intend to renounce...’. I was afraid it would have consequences at some point in the future, but I was mistaken.

 

Actually renouncing one’s citizenship is much more complex than writing a letter, as stated above.

 

The SB had no sample letter for me to use. It was SB who called me back in about the letter, 6 weeks after the McDonalds interview.

 

Once I get dual cit., Thai visas, immigration, 90 days, reentry permit, etc, will never cause me stress again! I will have house and land in my name, own and work in any business I fancy, or not work at all, as I will be Thai! Don’t forget visa free travel in Asean; I enjoy driving up to Laos.

 

Btw- Aren’t we about due for another Royal Thai Gazette publication; none since August 9th.

 

[Neeranam]

On 9/29/2018 at 12:16 AM, the guest said:

It doesn't matter if you have Thai citizenship, the Thais will always perceive you (and in most cases) as a Farang as if you got off the plane only yesterday.

 

So I'm wondering what value does a Thai passport have? 

Do you really worry about what Thai people think of you?

A touch of codependency there methinks.

[dbrenn]

On 9/27/2018 at 11:34 PM, TSF said:

I know a couple of farang who have Thai citizenship. They no longer have to get visas and re-entry permits, they no longer need to apply for a work permit (but it's debatable how many employment opportunities are open to them), they can own property in their own name, and because they have a Thai ID card they don't have to pay the farang price to enter certain parks & temples & shows....but that's about it.

 

I once said to one of my farang friends who has Thai citizenship, "so you can vote in elections, you can join a political party and run for office, you can join the Thai military?" His reply, "No, I'm not that much of a citizen." He also added that Thais still overcharge him, still laugh at him as he walks down the street, still call out "Hey you farang...5555555."

 

So give up your citizenship in your home country just to save a few thousand baht on visa fees and national park entrances???

 

 

I'm a naturalised Thai and I've voted in elections, so you got that wrong. 

 

It's a personal choice. For me the advantages were very clear and I've never regretted doing it, even 10 or so years on.

 

That said, renunciation of my original nationality wasn't a requirement, and there's still nothing that they can do to force you - an intention to renounce has no legal obligation to follow through. You can change your mind. 

 

Conceivably the Thais could perhaps change the law to revoke citizenship granted to those who don't make good on their pledge to renounce, but it hasn't happened yet. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by dbrenn

[danielcondo]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, i actually managed to talk to the embassy and have a new letter made, basically the letter has no value for them, its just a piece of paper, they even told me i can tear it up and throw it away once its completed, no need to visit them to withdraw it or anything such thing. In order to renounce your citizenship there's a whole list of things that you need to do, filling out forms, documentation, fees etc... the only thing they mentioned like many people here have stated is that if one days the Thai government starts enforcing the rule and demand for a proof of renunciation, that would be an issue and at that point people would really have to weigh which citizenship has more value to them.

 

In regards to alot of folks who are bad mouthing Thai citizenship, most of you probably have no use to have it anyways, nothing to invest in, too old to bother, etc etc..

 

Thats a personal choice and im sure there's folks that dont want to bother with it, that being said Thai citizenship is probably one of the hardest to obtain in the world, especially compared to the developed world, so most of these people will not get it even if they tried, so no point complaining about something you probably hardly have any chance of obtaining.

 

As for people like me, i have a lot of use for Thai citizenship, im still in my 30's , i have properties in Thailand, companies, family, etc etc i would like to be able to own them in my own name, even for things such as getting a mortgage or financing, the process is extremely simple for Thai's whereas for foreigners is extremely difficult,  alot of banks don't even deal with foreigners in those regards.

 

That being said obviously we are not Thai and don't look Thai and will always be considered outsiders to some extent but as long as you have your rights and you can go about with your life in a easier way without any hassles thats fine. I can proudly say i would be honored to become Thai and would consider myself a part of Thailand even if i wasn't born here or have no direct links to Thailand and become a naturalized citizen, the amount this country gives back to alot of us is more than what some people can dream of in other parts of the world. 

 

Thanks again everyone for your help, on a positive note i will be getting my interview date for later this month and will keep you posted regarding developments.

[seancbk]

14 minutes ago, danielcondo said:

Thanks for all the feedback guys, i actually managed to talk to the embassy and have a new letter made, basically the letter has no value for them, its just a piece of paper, they even told me i can tear it up and throw it away once its completed, no need to visit them to withdraw it or anything such thing. In order to renounce your citizenship there's a whole list of things that you need to do, filling out forms, documentation, fees etc... the only thing they mentioned like many people here have stated is that if one days the Thai government starts enforcing the rule and demand for a proof of renunciation, that would be an issue and at that point people would really have to weigh which citizenship has more value to them.

 

In regards to alot of folks who are bad mouthing Thai citizenship, most of you probably have no use to have it anyways, nothing to invest in, too old to bother, etc etc..

 

Thats a personal choice and im sure there's folks that dont want to bother with it, that being said Thai citizenship is probably one of the hardest to obtain in the world, especially compared to the developed world, so most of these people will not get it even if they tried, so no point complaining about something you probably hardly have any chance of obtaining.

 

As for people like me, i have a lot of use for Thai citizenship, im still in my 30's , i have properties in Thailand, companies, family, etc etc i would like to be able to own them in my own name, even for things such as getting a mortgage or financing, the process is extremely simple for Thai's whereas for foreigners is extremely difficult,  alot of banks don't even deal with foreigners in those regards.

 

That being said obviously we are not Thai and don't look Thai and will always be considered outsiders to some extent but as long as you have your rights and you can go about with your life in a easier way without any hassles thats fine. I can proudly say i would be honored to become Thai and would consider myself a part of Thailand even if i wasn't born here or have no direct links to Thailand and become a naturalized citizen, the amount this country gives back to alot of us is more than what some people can dream of in other parts of the world. 

 

Thanks again everyone for your help, on a positive note i will be getting my interview date for later this month and will keep you posted regarding developments.

How long have you lived in Thailand?  (if you don't mind me asking)

[danielcondo]

Over 10 Years 

[SammyT]

On 9/27/2018 at 8:39 PM, danielcondo said:

could one of you kindly let me know how you dealt with the Renunciation part , also in case I haven’t made myself clear I plan on keeping both my canadian and Thai citizenship’s

 

Thailand says you shouldn't have dual citizenship, the Government  want a clearer letter stating explicitly that you will renounce your Canadian citizenship, and yet you're still wanting to get Thai citizenship and keep your Canadian as well? So what you're saying is you want to have your cake and eat it to? 

 

Good luck to you, but I wouldn't wanna be in your shoes if the government found out and decided to make an example...

[seancbk]

32 minutes ago, danielcondo said:

Over 10 Years 

 

Good luck with your application.  I've been here 10 years and would like to apply myself one day.  

[danielcondo]

6 minutes ago, SammyT said:

 

Thailand says you shouldn't have dual citizenship, the Government  want a clearer letter stating explicitly that you will renounce your Canadian citizenship, and yet you're still wanting to get Thai citizenship and keep your Canadian as well? So what you're saying is you want to have your cake and eat it to? 

 

Good luck to you, but I wouldn't wanna be in your shoes if the government found out and decided to make an example...

 

In case you haven't been following the forum, there's literally Thousands of people who have dual nationality in Thailand, apart from almost a few hundred thousand or more Thai's ( Lukruengs and Thai who are settled abroad ) who have dual Nationality as well, The law doesn't state that you can not have both, it says you should not have both, there's a difference, the day they start implementing this so called law will be a day they probably will regret considering alot of Thai's from well known and influential families have dual nationality as well. 

 

No need to worry about my shoes lol  

[SammyT]

23 minutes ago, danielcondo said:

 

In case you haven't been following the forum, there's literally Thousands of people who have dual nationality in Thailand, apart from almost a few hundred thousand or more Thai's ( Lukruengs and Thai who are settled abroad ) who have dual Nationality as well, The law doesn't state that you can not have both, it says you should not have both, there's a difference, the day they start implementing this so called law will be a day they probably will regret considering alot of Thai's from well known and influential families have dual nationality as well. 

 

No need to worry about my shoes lol  

 

Fair enough. I made that comment before I read the rest of the thread. Good luck to you

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, danielcondo said:

In regards to alot of folks who are bad mouthing Thai citizenship, most of you probably have no use to have it anyways, nothing to invest in, too old to bother, etc etc..

The only ones that I've met that bad mouth it are the ones who don't have the option.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, danielcondo said:

Thanks for all the feedback guys, i actually managed to talk to the embassy and have a new letter made, basically the letter has no value for them, its just a piece of paper, they even told me i can tear it up and throw it away once its completed, no need to visit them to withdraw it or anything such thing. In order to renounce your citizenship there's a whole list of things that you need to do, filling out forms, documentation, fees etc... the only thing they mentioned like many people here have stated is that if one days the Thai government starts enforcing the rule and demand for a proof of renunciation, that would be an issue and at that point people would really have to weigh which citizenship has more value to them.

 

In regards to alot of folks who are bad mouthing Thai citizenship, most of you probably have no use to have it anyways, nothing to invest in, too old to bother, etc etc..

 

Thats a personal choice and im sure there's folks that dont want to bother with it, that being said Thai citizenship is probably one of the hardest to obtain in the world, especially compared to the developed world, so most of these people will not get it even if they tried, so no point complaining about something you probably hardly have any chance of obtaining.

 

As for people like me, i have a lot of use for Thai citizenship, im still in my 30's , i have properties in Thailand, companies, family, etc etc i would like to be able to own them in my own name, even for things such as getting a mortgage or financing, the process is extremely simple for Thai's whereas for foreigners is extremely difficult,  alot of banks don't even deal with foreigners in those regards.

 

That being said obviously we are not Thai and don't look Thai and will always be considered outsiders to some extent but as long as you have your rights and you can go about with your life in a easier way without any hassles thats fine. I can proudly say i would be honored to become Thai and would consider myself a part of Thailand even if i wasn't born here or have no direct links to Thailand and become a naturalized citizen, the amount this country gives back to alot of us is more than what some people can dream of in other parts of the world. 

 

Thanks again everyone for your help, on a positive note i will be getting my interview date for later this month and will keep you posted regarding developments.

 

You say you are waiting for the MOI interview. 

Do you have a date, or they are going to give you a date later this month? This is not normal, maybe it's because of your 'contacts' there?

 

You can't keep the letter from your embassy, it had to be given to the MOI.

 

[yankee99]

Seems in the past the file would go back to SB and be resubmitted... hope that s not the case

[danielcondo]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

You say you are waiting for the MOI interview. 

Do you have a date, or they are going to give you a date later this month? This is not normal, maybe it's because of your 'contacts' there?

 

You can't keep the letter from your embassy, it had to be given to the MOI.

 

 

The date will be between the 20th to 25th, still awaiting the exact date as the committee has been changed and they are checking their schedules, should get a call from them by next week.

 

Nobody can keep the letter, it needs to be submitted with the application, the new letter has already been sent to the interior Ministry for replacement. 

 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

Seems in the past the file would go back to SB and be resubmitted... hope that s not the case

Very strange that the SB missed this. 

[danielcondo]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Very strange that the SB missed this. 

 

They didn't Miss it, but the individuals in the Interior ministry gave us a heads up and asked us to change some of the wording in order to avoid issues during the interview, simple as that.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, danielcondo said:

The date will be between the 20th to 25th, still awaiting the exact date as the committee has been changed and they are checking their schedules, should get a call from them by next week.

Thanks for that!

 

Can I ask how long between the NIA interview and this coming MOI ONE.

[danielcondo]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Thanks for that!

 

Can I ask how long between the NIA interview and this coming MOI ONE.

 

9 months 

[cmsally]

I also was told October , but not yet heard any approx dates. My paperwork has been at MOI since April.

[Neeranam]

Just now, danielcondo said:

 

9 months 

Thanks again. I did my NIA interview in January, maybe I'll get a call soon!

[danielcondo]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Thanks again. I did my NIA interview in January, maybe I'll get a call soon!

 

Yes its possible, fingers crossed and Good luck to all of us

[danielcondo]

Just an update guys, as mentioned before new committee has been appointed and are in the process of sorting out all the files, their schedules, budgets etc, probably no interviews this month for sure

[Arkady]

SB obviously didn't bother to read your letter properly when you first submitted it but someone else must have reviewed it. If the MoI saw it they would knock your application back to SB for "re-checking"  which would cause you a lot of hassles and waste at least 6 months (don't ask me how I know this). You need to declare that you intend to renounce your Canadian citizenship after your application for Thai citizenship has been approved by the Thai authorities.  You cannot dilute this by putting in conditions, such as "if necessary".  They feel they need this for some reason nowadays because there is nothing in the Nationality Act that allows them to actually force renunciation of original nationality.  It is obviously quite effective with applicants from countries like India and China, which account for a large proportion of applicants, as they follow up with a letter to the embassy confirming you have been granting Thai citizenship.  Anyway it is not an issue with Canada.  So just do as they ask, if you still want to proceed.

[samran]

16 hours ago, danielcondo said:

Just an update guys, as mentioned before new committee has been appointed and are in the process of sorting out all the files, their schedules, budgets etc, probably no interviews this month for sure

1st October marks a new budget year for the Thai civil service.

 

As such there is often a delay of a month or two as people are selected and budgets are disbursed.

 

Happened for my wife’s application when she was basically next in line to be interviewed but shouldn’t be a huge delay under this government. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by samran

[Arkady]

A nonsense post was deleted.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, samran said:

1st October marks a new budget year for the Thai civil service.

 

As such there is often a delay of a month or two as people are selected and budgets are disbursed.

 

Happened for my wife’s application when she was basically next in line to be interviewed but shouldn’t be a huge delay under this government. 

 

The members of the big committee that reviews applications after the interviews serve ex officio and I believe this is also true of the small committee that conducts the interviews.  So they have already been selected in the civil service reshuffle but some will be new faces.  The members of the small committee do not all attend the interviews in person, as they are allowed to send deputies of appropriate civil service rank.  Some one from the Bangkok gun licensing department was on the small committee at my interview and his job is definitely not one of the ex officio members but it is part of DOPA and he was of appropriate rank to deputise.  I am sure they will need to reorganise with the new faces but it should not take them too long to fix the schedule, given that the members can easily assign someone to sit in for them.