EU court may decide before Christmas if UK can unilaterally reverse Brexit

[melvinmelvin]

don't waste your breath

americans do not understand the eu concept

that goes for the uneducated masses and the educated lot - same same

 

 

[rickudon]

It would be nice if it was reversed, but i think not leaving is unlikely. Remainers see the logic in remaining, Brexiteers do not, it is all emotion. I wonder, if Brexiteers were told that for every 1% drop in GDP post Brexit, they would have to pay a 1% wealth tax, they might actually stop and think .....

 

I would also like to reserve some rope and a few lamp posts outside parliament for the leaders of this fiasco. I am already 20% worse off, and would happily tug on the rope!

[My Thai Life]

The British Lord Kerr was the man that drafted the text for A50, but he had in mind a completely different scenario from Brexit. This is one of the many reasons why A50 is inadequate for Brexit, but it's all we have.

 

Kerr imagined that the exit procedure might be triggered after an authoritarian leader took power in a member country and the EU responded by suspending that country’s right to vote on EU decisions.

 

 “It seemed to me very likely that a dictatorial regime would then, in high dudgeon, want to storm out. And to have a procedure for storming out seemed to be quite a sensible thing to do — to avoid the legal chaos of going with no agreement,” Kerr said.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-article-50-lord-kerr-john-kerr/

 

But it’s all a bit academic, the UK is not going to revoke A50.

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by My Thai Life

[bristolboy]

50 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

don't waste your breath

americans do not understand the eu concept

that goes for the uneducated masses and the educated lot - same same

 

 

And yet it was overwhelmingly the American economists who pointed out the irrational basis of the EURO. Sometimes being an outsider aids in clear thinking.

[melvinmelvin]

yes,

but the EU and the Euro are not the same

 

[7by7]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

don't waste your breath

americans do not understand the eu concept

that goes for the uneducated masses and the educated lot - same same

 I disagree; there are many Americans who understand the EU concept and the workings of the EU.

 

But I doubt that many of those voted for the orange one.

[iroc4life]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I disagree; there are many Americans who understand the EU concept and the workings of the EU.

 

But I doubt that many of those voted for the orange one.

You're likely right, those who care about the EU concept likely agree with the Socialist leaning of the same. Those would not have voted for the Orange one.

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, iroc4life said:

You're likely right, those who care about the EU concept likely agree with the Socialist leaning of the same. Those would not have voted for the Orange one.

 

And anyone, of whatever nationality, with even the slightest knowledge of the subject would not have posted

22 hours ago, iroc4life said:

So, a foreign "Court" is now going to decide if the UK's Peoples demands can be reversed? ???? ???? Thanks God Trump doesnt listen to foreign courts or the UN when it comes to US policy hahaha. I feel for you europeans and hope you get a real leader someday like Churchill or Thatcher before its too late 

 

Interesting that you consider an economic union of states to be Socialist.

 

Do you also consider a political union of states to be the same; or worse? You know, a political union such as the United States of America?

 

Not that there is anything wrong with Socialism, nor Capitalism come to that, in their pure forms. Unfortunately, both systems, and everything in between, have never existed in their pure form.

[Stupooey]

12 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

It seems most of us on here are old,and from what i see its the majority want to leave,

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Yes, I myself admit to being in the first flush of senility, but not so old as to see pre-1973 Britain through rose-tinted spectacles, nor so spiteful as to deny the youth of today the opportunities I was granted.

[ivor bigun]

 
Yes, I myself admit to being in the first flush of senility, but not so old as to see pre-1973 Britain through rose-tinted spectacles, nor so spiteful as to deny the youth of today the opportunities I was granted.

What? Pre 1973 Britain was fantastic ,i lived the good life first in my home town as a young guy then in London for the swinging 60s and 70s ,what a time,

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[billd766]

6 hours ago, rickudon said:

It would be nice if it was reversed, but i think not leaving is unlikely. Remainers see the logic in remaining, Brexiteers do not, it is all emotion. I wonder, if Brexiteers were told that for every 1% drop in GDP post Brexit, they would have to pay a 1% wealth tax, they might actually stop and think .....

 

I would also like to reserve some rope and a few lamp posts outside parliament for the leaders of this fiasco. I am already 20% worse off, and would happily tug on the rope!

 

I am already on a frozen pension and have been since I left school in 1959 and will be until the day I die. Having worked hard for 50 years and EARNED 3 pensions I pay income tax for some 15 to 20% of my state pension.

 

So in addition to having my state pension frozen at the 2009 level, subsidising it by some 15 to 20% you want me to pay a wealth tax too?

 

I am not sure if you are crazier than me.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

 

Yes, I myself admit to being in the first flush of senility, but not so old as to see pre-1973 Britain through rose-tinted spectacles, nor so spiteful as to deny the youth of today the opportunities I was granted.

 

I was old enough in 1973 and had been working for 14 years then. I believed what the Heath government told me (they lied) and I voted to continue in the EEC. I did NOT vote for the EU and when the opportunity came some 40 years later I voted for Brexit.

 

I also remember the UK of the 1960s and 1970s under the Labour government of the day when strikes by the union were a normal weekly thing, when the dead went unburied, when miners, trash collectors, tanker drivers, firemen, railway unions went out on strike, when the British car industry was almost destroyed, and no I never looked through rose-tinted spectacles. The youth of today have even more opportunities than I was granted.

[iroc4life]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

And anyone, of whatever nationality, with even the slightest knowledge of the subject would not have posted

 

Interesting that you consider an economic union of states to be Socialist.

 

Do you also consider a political union of states to be the same; or worse? You know, a political union such as the United States of America?

 

Not that there is anything wrong with Socialism, nor Capitalism come to that, in their pure forms. Unfortunately, both systems, and everything in between, have never existed in their pure form.

The problem isnt the economic union, IMO it is the Unelected  bureaucrats (EU Commission) in the leadership of that union, making decision, or attempting to, that will control the economies of supposed independent countries. The USA is totally different as in every state has an "Elected, by the people of that state, Rep" with a say on what happens. Im not saying one is better than the other, just IMO ???? that I wouldnt agree to be a part of said Union

Edited October 7, 2018 by iroc4life

[rickudon]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I am already on a frozen pension and have been since I left school in 1959 and will be until the day I die. Having worked hard for 50 years and EARNED 3 pensions I pay income tax for some 15 to 20% of my state pension.

 

So in addition to having my state pension frozen at the 2009 level, subsidising it by some 15 to 20% you want me to pay a wealth tax too?

 

I am not sure if you are crazier than me.

So Billd, what was better pre EEC/EU that would make you want to vote for Brexit and a further 20% cut in the value of your pensions? Sure the EU has it's problems, but are they any worse than what our own government has inflicted upon us? I didn't vote to destroy the UK economy and the pound. The economy of the UK is now deeply intertwined with the EU, and unraveling that would be painful. Nostalgia for the past is ok, but time moves on and you cannot rewind it.

 

I will move on after Brexit, but i can see little benefit from it. Immigration? The damage was done years ago, and had little to do with the EU. It is a global problem. Sovereignty? What was better before? I don't live in the UK but my 3 pensions all do, so i care about what Brexit will do.

[Stupooey]

8 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

What? Pre 1973 Britain was fantastic ,i lived the good life first in my home town as a young guy then in London for the swinging 60s and 70s ,what a time,

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That's the point I was making, you remember the good bits, as I do. I also remember working pre-1973 and having to scratch around for business in former colonies such as Nigeria, Rhodesia (as was) and Mauritius. Joining the EEC was like a breath of fresh air.

[Stupooey]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I was old enough in 1973 and had been working for 14 years then. I believed what the Heath government told me (they lied) and I voted to continue in the EEC. I did NOT vote for the EU and when the opportunity came some 40 years later I voted for Brexit.

 

I also remember the UK of the 1960s and 1970s under the Labour government of the day when strikes by the union were a normal weekly thing, when the dead went unburied, when miners, trash collectors, tanker drivers, firemen, railway unions went out on strike, when the British car industry was almost destroyed, and no I never looked through rose-tinted spectacles. The youth of today have even more opportunities than I was granted.

Selective memory again, as these happened under both Labour and Conservative governments - remember the miners' strike of 1974 and the three day week? This led to Heath calling his "Who runs the Country" election, and the Great British voting public deciding that the miners did, but no doubt you were happy with that as it was the 'will of the people'.

I agree the youth of today have more opportunities than we did, but that is no excuse for denying them to the youth of tomorrow.

[Esso49]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I am already on a frozen pension and have been since I left school in 1959 and will be until the day I die. Having worked hard for 50 years and EARNED 3 pensions I pay income tax for some 15 to 20% of my state pension.

 

So in addition to having my state pension frozen at the 2009 level, subsidising it by some 15 to 20% you want me to pay a wealth tax too?

 

I am not sure if you are crazier than me.

same +1

[ivor bigun]

Selective memory again, as these happened under both Labour and Conservative governments - remember the miners' strike of 1974 and the three day week? This led to Heath calling his "Who runs the Country" election, and the Great British voting public deciding that the miners did, but no doubt you were happy with that as it was the 'will of the people'.

I agree the youth of today have more opportunities than we did, but that is no excuse for denying them to the youth of tomorrow.

I agree,but as for the youth of today having more oppotunities,i disagree wholeheartedly,i lived in a great cheap bedsit in London ,if i had not liked it there were hundreds to choose from ,i had a good job,but if i did not like it i could pack it in and get another straight away, the tube was cheap as chips,as was all transport, when i got married in the 70,s my first house was cheap by todays standards. Mind you the one difference with todays youth was i did not expect everything and moan like hell when i cant have it or protest at every little thing,i really can understand why they are called snowflakes,.

We did not want the latest everything,we saved and went without,it tought us to be strong , in many ways it was easier for us ,but that was because we didnt expect anything,we worked for it.

 

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[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

I agree,but as for the youth of today having more oppotunities,i disagree wholeheartedly,i lived in a great cheap bedsit in London ,if i had not liked it there were hundreds to choose from ,i had a good job,but if i did not like it i could pack it in and get another straight away, the tube was cheap as chips,as was all transport, when i got married in the 70,s my first house was cheap by todays standards. Mind you the one difference with todays youth was i did not expect everything and moan like hell when i cant have it or protest at every little thing,i really can understand why they are called snowflakes,.

We did not want the latest everything,we saved and went without,it tought us to be strong , in many ways it was easier for us ,but that was because we didnt expect anything,we worked for it.

 

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

Whilst I agree with much of what you are saying (although to get back on topic, I don't think the negatives are down to EU membership), you do seem to remember just the good things. Perhaps the 'tube was cheap as chips' because chips were comparatively expensive: the percentage of household expenditure on food has almost halved since the 1960s. Unemployment now is at a very similar level to the 60s and early 70s. The major change of course has been the cost of housing, particularly in London, but a post-Brexit collapse in the housing market would just lead to considerable hardship for many people. We moan about the youth of today, but our grandparents moaned about us in much the same way, it is very much a generational thing. As L.P. Hartley famously wrote 'The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there'. Trying to turn the clock back is not a good idea.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Stupooey
Grammatical error

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Stupooey said:

Selective memory again, as these happened under both Labour and Conservative governments - remember the miners' strike of 1974 and the three day week? This led to Heath calling his "Who runs the Country" election, and the Great British voting public deciding that the miners did, but no doubt you were happy with that as it was the 'will of the people'.

I agree the youth of today have more opportunities than we did, but that is no excuse for denying them to the youth of tomorrow.

 

And how long did that last until the Tories got back into power? 5 years first under Harold Wilson ("the pound in your pocket is still worth the same" even though it was devalued by 14.5% in 1967)  and then under James Callaghan.

 

I also remember the miners strike under Arthur Scargill who sincerely believed that the unions should run the country. He lost too as did the country which by the GE of 1979 were thoroughly pissed off with Labour and the unions and voted Margaret Thatcher and the Tories in.

 

I left secondary modern school in 1959 and joined the RAF (which I wanted to do since I was 11). None of us went to Uni though some went on day release to college. Fast forward to 1996 and my son now 40 also never went to college or uni.

 

I had a great life in the 25 years I was in the RAF but got some poorly paid jobs when I came out for 5 years. I then changed careers at 42 and worked my way up in the company and overseas work. I quit the company in 1999, formed my own company and worked offshore until I retired in 2009.

 

My son started work in the parts department of the local Vauxhall dealer, moved into car sales and is now regional manager for Mercedes Benz leasing in the UK home counties. He, like me, got there by hard work.

 

From what I understand of many of today's youth is that are taught that they are "entitled" to everything without actually having to work for it.

[7by7]

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 4:32 PM, iroc4life said:

The problem isnt the economic union, IMO it is the Unelected  bureaucrats (EU Commission) in the leadership of that union, making decision, or attempting to, that will control the economies of supposed independent countries. The USA is totally different as in every state has an "Elected, by the people of that state, Rep" with a say on what happens. Im not saying one is better than the other, just IMO ???? that I wouldnt agree to be a part of said Union

 You obviously do not understand the democratic workings of the EU. Don't worry, many of my fellow Brits don't either; thanks in large part to the misinformation fed them by the Leave campaign.

 

The commission is the bureaucracy of the EU; the equivalent to your federal civil service, it's various agencies and the executive office of the president.

 

But just as your civil service is not the leader of the USA, the commission is not the leader of the EU. Both have considerable power, of course, and can advise on policy etc., but at the end of the day both must accept and act upon the decisions of their political masters and are accountable to those political masters.

 

In the EU these political masters are the directly elected parliament, the council of ministers and the heads of the member states.