Education - Thailand or abroad for your child?

[EVENKEEL]

As explained to me by a teacher at an International School, if it's your plan for child to attend Thai University then an English Program type school is best where they will have both a good command of both Thai and English. An excellent understanding of English will set them apart in Thailand when seeking employment.

If your child will be attending a western university, then an International School is best.

 

Then the discussion will turn to where the highest paid jobs are. But I for one believes Thailand is a better choice, not because the pay is higher but because it's less stressful here. She wouldn't have much in the way of family in the US, seems logical to keep her in Thailand.

[GinBoy2]

Hmmm just being having this discussion in another thread.

So situation was this;
My son was born in Singapore and went to school there until the age of 10, went we came back to Thailand. He then went through the High School until he went to college in Chicago.
His primary education in Singapore was outstanding.
It all went downhill when we came back to Thailand.
We had sent him to a private International school in Khon Kaen, but in reality all I did was buy better quality friends, the education was just as mediocre as the rest.
Obviously he was totally fluent in English, yet reading the 'corrections' to his English homework were past laughable, it bordered on tragic.
So fast forward to college, he passed the entrance exam to the University of Chicago, thanks primarily to his Mom's tutoring.
His freshman year however was really really tough, he struggled mightily.
The Thai way of instilling information without any real critical thinking is just so contrary to a US university environment, it took him a year to get his head around it.
Now he was lucky. At the time my eldest daughter was living in Chicago and helped get him through it.

So, we're a bit different to you. He was a US citizen, and we now have moved back, he's got a great job and we're quite close to him

But, a degree from a Thai university is really not worth the paper it's printed on outside of Thailand, I think you've seen all the stats.

So ask yourself what you want for her future, and I guess, ask yourself if you will remain in Thailand forever.

If I had to do it all over again, I wish we'd moved back before he started HS

Edited October 5, 2018 by GinBoy2

[EVENKEEL]

Guess I was just thinking out loud when I posted. I heard many posters argue that regular Gov schools are just as good EP or International schools, I can't buy into that.

 

Yes, your situation is different but I can understand your frustration at the Thai way of teaching. They learn to spell words they don't know the meaning of is one example.

 

As dumb as it sounds, if I had a son instead I'd be thinking more seriously about a western education.

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Guess I was just thinking out loud when I posted. I heard many posters argue that regular Gov schools are just as good EP or International schools, I can't buy into that.

 

Yes, your situation is different but I can understand your frustration at the Thai way of teaching. They learn to spell words they don't know the meaning of is one example.

 

As dumb as it sounds, if I had a son instead I'd be thinking more seriously about a western education.

In truth I can’t compare Govt schools and private schools, since all the time after we moved from Singapore Voy was in a private school.

Now my comparison would be therefore between a HS in the US and his private school in Thailand.

 

In that scenario, it was night and day. Without me and his Mom sorta filling in the gaps as best we could, I’m pretty sure he would have been 2 years behind a typical US HS graduate

[BritManToo]

My Thai kids will be living and working in Thailand so they go to Thai government schools.  If I wanted them to be worthless layabouts, I'd send them to some 'spoilt brat' Thai school.  If they were going to be living and working in the UK I would have sent them to school in the UK.

 

My daughter has made it through Doi Saket Temple junior school, Mae Rim HighSchool, and now half way through Chiang Mai University. Top of her class all the way, it isn't about their school, it's about the work ethic you instil in them.

[JLCrab]

I mentored a young Thai woman in obtaining her Thai government scholarship to attend the London School of Economics and then eventually receive a law degree from City University, London. She was valedictorian of her public high school class in Thailand.

Edited October 5, 2018 by JLCrab

[EVENKEEL]

On 10/4/2018 at 8:33 PM, BritManToo said:

My Thai kids will be living and working in Thailand so they go to Thai government schools.  If I wanted them to be worthless layabouts, I'd send them to some 'spoilt brat' Thai school.  If they were going to be living and working in the UK I would have sent them to school in the UK.

 

My daughter has made it through Doi Saket Temple junior school, Mae Rim HighSchool, and now half way through Chiang Mai University. Top of her class all the way, it isn't about their school, it's about the work ethic you instil in them.

These are your biological kids I'm assuming, your daughter has the advantage of having an English speaking father at home. A good education doesn't produce worthless layabouts. It's the home environment which promotes laziness. For mine an International School may happen later after she has a good grasp on the Thai basics. But for now it's an English Program School with native English teachers.

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Guess I was just thinking out loud when I posted. I heard many posters argue that regular Gov schools are just as good EP or International schools, I can't buy into that.

 

Yes, your situation is different but I can understand your frustration at the Thai way of teaching. They learn to spell words they don't know the meaning of is one example.

 

As dumb as it sounds, if I had a son instead I'd be thinking more seriously about a western education.

 

Just to confuse, nowadays there's a network of government schools where English is the main medium of teaching and most have good quality western teachers for: Maths, Science, English and some also have limited history and geography lessons in English and at least one of these schools has a subject called 'society' which I understand is meaning something like sociology, taught in English. Thai language is taught by Thai teachers. 

 

Two such schools that I'm personally aware of are in Chiang Mai and Pitsanalook, and I understand there are more. Semester fees at the CM school are around 20,000Baht a semester and class maximum is 24 students. 

 

I visited the above school in CM with my Thai son to enquire about their EP program for my eldest granddaughter. My son was shocked to find a reception room where there are many young Thai admin. staff who all speak English, one pleasant guy (relatively young, perhaps late 20s) said good morning and asked my son and myself to sit down and he said 'How can we help you?' (A change from the typical 'fill in the form' appraoch at older style schools), the whole team quickly came and sat with us, they listened well they spoke professionally and politely and most of them contributed something valuable to the discussion which lasted about 30 - 40 minutes. Then we were given business cards and the lead guy said 'don't hesitate to call me with more questions and discussion'. Both my Son and myself quite impressed. 

 

Then one of the team took us to an English language class and she politely ask if 2 of the students could come out of the class for 15 minutes to give my son and myself a quick tour around the school. Two very pleasant 16 yr old girls, excellent English, very focused, very adult appraoch to giving us the quick tour. Very well done.

 

I have a close western friend who has worked at the above school in Pitsanalook for around 10 years, this school has an excellent track record of kids getting accepted into Chula, Thammasat, Mahidol Medical School, etc.

 

Within the same grounds there's an old style Thai government school, until I guess 2 or 3 years back that school had no western teachers and was a 100% rote learning environment but it seems there has been effective pressure from the parents who are well aware of the EP school within walking distance and how it works and the old style school now has 2 western teachers, English and Maths / Science, much more student participation and the class sizes have reduced markedly. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by scorecard

[Megasin1]

Its just over a year ago now that my daughter decided she wanted to be taught in England and came here to continue her education, she has grown exponentially. Would she wish to return to Thailand to go to school? The answer from her is a very strong "No!" For me, your main issue is that you and your children are expending all your efforts to ensure that eventually your child can operate as a person in English, but you are moving in a narrow corridor defined by the environment you are within. In your home country English is the canvas on which life and education is painted so it matters not how good the school is in Thailand, your child will be forever restrained. My daughter can read, write and speak both Thai and English and still struggles in general conversation when people talk fast, use vernacular dialects or the conversation moves to unfamiliar areas, these issues will be resolved with time spent amongst her peers and are not something that an international school can resolve. If you are defining your child's life as 'do well in Thailand' then an education in Thailand may be right, however if you would like your child to be able to flourish anywhere then I would strongly recommend you move your child home, mine is now learning French, which she enjoys, along with dance, drama and a myriad of subjects which in an English school (also European or American) are simply a part of normal school life, but most importantly she is learning to think for herself. Best wishes on what you decide.

[JLCrab]

Reading topics like this makes me think of this line from the US curmudgeon Fran Lebowitz:

"I never met anyone who didn't have a very smart child. What happens to these children, you wonder, when they reach adulthood?"

 

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/fran_lebowitz_397818

 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

How many of those 'native English teachers' are qualified to teach in their home country?

I'd prefer my kids not to mix with the foreigners pretending to be teachers in Thailand while eking out an existence between being drunk and chasing bar girls.

 

Here's an example, years back a farang colleague introduced me to his loud-mouth over-confident younger brother who had been working in Bkk for I guess 6 months for a mickey-mouse English teacher agency, no qualifications, no previous experience, no work permits etc. 

 

The younger brother had just landed a contract to teach English to young naval cadets. The elder brother asked 'how are you constructing the lessons' or something similar.

 

Younger brothers' answer: 'I'm teaching them the language of masturbation and sex'. We all laughed then the 'teacher' said 'I'm serious'.

 

A few days later my colleague revealed that the naval college had dismissed his young brother on the spot when they learned what he was teaching.

 

No further comment needed. 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by scorecard

[DavisH]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

How many of those 'native English teachers' are qualified to teach in their home country?

I'd prefer my kids not to mix with the foreigners pretending to be teachers in Thailand while eking out an existence between being drunk and chasing bar girls.

Four in my office are (most of the native speakers). Most of the non-natives are also qualified to teach in their home country. The layabouts don't last very long as the work is too demanding. 

[nataliecooke]

We looked into both international and government schools with English programs for our two sons. When I found it difficult to have a fluent conversation in English with any of the main teachers...I realised we were potentially making a huge mistake and decided to stay in Australia. 

[GinBoy2]

30 minutes ago, nataliecooke said:

We looked into both international and government schools with English programs for our two sons. When I found it difficult to have a fluent conversation in English with any of the main teachers...I realised we were potentially making a huge mistake and decided to stay in Australia. 

Like I’ve said before I’d have done it totally differently if I could.

 

With hindsight I wish we’d either stayed in Singapore or moved directly back to the US.

 

As it happens, it all worked out but it was probably harder than it needed to be with our diversion to Thailand.

 

Of course my wife reminds me constantly, not that I remember this conversation, that she told me so!

 

The education standards and mentality are so radically different it’s hard to wrap your head around it.

 

I guess bottom line is this. If your kid is never wanting to move and work outside Thailand, yeah it probably works. 

If they have any aspiration to work outside the country, then get them to college outside Thailand

Edited October 5, 2018 by GinBoy2

[PFV]

There are many different international schools in Thailand, some good, most bad.

The problem with the good ones is that by hiring qualified teachers from the UK, Australia, NZ, the US, etc., who demand salaries that can approach or surpass 100K baht/month, they are quite expensive by Thai - but not US - standards.

The better International schools also have plenty of support staff, from teachers' assistants to counselors. Tuitions in Bangkok approach 1 million baht/year; and even upcountry they often exceed 500-800K baht/year depending on boarding.

However, these schools do get results in terms of acceptance by top notch world universities, such as Ivy Leagues in the US or equivalent in Asia and Europe, as long as the student is motivated.

 

[GinBoy2]

2 hours ago, PFV said:

There are many different international schools in Thailand, some good, most bad.

The problem with the good ones is that by hiring qualified teachers from the UK, Australia, NZ, the US, etc., who demand salaries that can approach or surpass 100K baht/month, they are quite expensive by Thai - but not US - standards.

The better International schools also have plenty of support staff, from teachers' assistants to counselors. Tuitions in Bangkok approach 1 million baht/year; and even upcountry they often exceed 500-800K baht/year depending on boarding.

However, these schools do get results in terms of acceptance by top notch world universities, such as Ivy Leagues in the US or equivalent in Asia and Europe, as long as the student is motivated.

 

I’ve been trying to remember how much we paid in Khon Kaen, and as memory serves me it was around ฿500K/year, but this was 7 years back now

Now was it worth it? Well thats debatable. 

It wasn’t the lack of resources, it was just the quality and depth that just didn’t cut it

[thomago]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My Thai kids will be living and working in Thailand so they go to Thai government schools.

If I wanted them to be worthless layabouts, I'd send them to some 'spoilt brat' Thai school.

If they were going to be living and working in the UK I would have sent them to school in the UK.

 

My daughter has made it through Doi Saket Temple junior school, Mae Rim HighSchool, and now half way through Chiang Mai University. Top of her class all the way, it isn't about their school, it's about the work ethic you instil in them.

I'm just happy for you. Well done!

[smotherb]

16 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Guess I was just thinking out loud when I posted. I heard many posters argue that regular Gov schools are just as good EP or International schools, I can't buy into that.

 

Yes, your situation is different but I can understand your frustration at the Thai way of teaching. They learn to spell words they don't know the meaning of is one example.

 

As dumb as it sounds, if I had a son instead I'd be thinking more seriously about a western education.

Why would you want a better education for your son than for your daughter? You want her to be subservient to some man and not have a chance on her own?

 

I went  back to the states when my son was 5. I wanted him to be educated where his degree would mean something and he could make a good living.

 

If I had a daughter, I would have done the same. I would want my daughter to get an education that would support her well; here or abroad.

 

My son is now 32, makes a good living, has a nice house, just bought his wife a new car. He can live well anywhere in the world on his education and the skills he has developed because he got a chance.

 

I think you are doing your child a disservice leaving them here; especially if you have a choice. Those of you who have buried yourselves here likely have not choice.

[GinBoy2]

18 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

 

As dumb as it sounds, if I had a son instead I'd be thinking more seriously about a western education.

Thats an interesting statement.

 

I never made any distinction between my daughters and son.

 

All I ever wanted for all of them was to have the maximum chances and options, regardless, male or female

[KiChakayan]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What makes women happy is a husband and a home full of children to care for. 

I want my girls to by fully independent in life, so that they can walk away, any time they wish, if they unfortunate enough to have a husband like you.

You are a dinosaur mate, and not of the smartest kind.

[EVENKEEL]

5 hours ago, smotherb said:

Why would you want a better education for your son than for your daughter? You want her to be subservient to some man and not have a chance on her own?

 

I went  back to the states when my son was 5. I wanted him to be educated where his degree would mean something and he could make a good living.

 

If I had a daughter, I would have done the same. I would want my daughter to get an education that would support her well; here or abroad.

 

My son is now 32, makes a good living, has a nice house, just bought his wife a new car. He can live well anywhere in the world on his education and the skills he has developed because he got a chance.

 

I think you are doing your child a disservice leaving them here; especially if you have a choice. Those of you who have buried yourselves here likely have not choice.

And what of your daughter in law? I'm assuming she also is college educated in the US. You kinda see where this is leading. We somehow think being educated in the west is the end all. If that were the case every adult would be college educated. A college degree doesn't always equate success and happiness. Yes, with a son I may have given the thought more consideration but I will never know. 

 

As for being stuck here, not quite. But, I believe with all its flaws a life in Thailand for an educated person is more laid back than one in the US.

[exemplary21]

23 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

But, a degree from a Thai university is really not worth the paper it's printed on outside of Thailand, I think you've seen all the stats.
 

 

I haven't.

 

Could you point me to them, please?

 

Thanks.

[GinBoy2]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

And what of your daughter in law? I'm assuming she also is college educated in the US. You kinda see where this is leading. We somehow think being educated in the west is the end all. If that were the case every adult would be college educated. A college degree doesn't always equate success and happiness. Yes, with a son I may have given the thought more consideration but I will never know. 

 

As for being stuck here, not quite. But, I believe with all its flaws a life in Thailand for an educated person is more laid back than one in the US.

Well it’s all a balancing act in truth.

 

Where you want ultimately to live, citizenship, luck, fate.

 

So I think of it this way.

 

We always knew at some point we’d all move back to the US.

Had our son gone to a Thai University, would he have been able to get the job he currently has in Denver, probably not. 

Had he had no aspirations to leave Thailand, then probably a Thai degree would have been fine.

 

At least now with a decent degree from a US University he has options.

 

He’s young, he may chose at some point decide he wants to go back to Thailand for a while, who knows.

 

But the fact that he can make that choice, where I would argue that a Thai degree wouldn’t give him that flexibility makes a world of difference in my book

[davidst01]

On 10/5/2018 at 8:41 AM, EVENKEEL said:

Guess I was just thinking out loud when I posted. I heard many posters argue that regular Gov schools are just as good EP or International schools, I can't buy into that.

 

Yes, your situation is different but I can understand your frustration at the Thai way of teaching. They learn to spell words they don't know the meaning of is one example.

 

As dumb as it sounds, if I had a son instead I'd be thinking more seriously about a western education.

If your child is exceptional (top of the class) then your better off keeping him/her in the thai govt school system. They will get access to the medical entry 'quota' system for medicine and dentistry. This is what my wife did and after studying at a uni in central bkk she had to work in a govt hospital as part of the contract. Im unsure if theres access to this if you send your kid to international school

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well it’s all a balancing act in truth.

 

Where you want ultimately to live, citizenship, luck, fate.

 

So I think of it this way.

 

We always knew at some point we’d all move back to the US.

Had our son gone to a Thai University, would he have been able to get the job he currently has in Denver, probably not. 

Had he had no aspirations to leave Thailand, then probably a Thai degree would have been fine.

 

At least now with a decent degree from a US University he has options.

 

He’s young, he may chose at some point decide he wants to go back to Thailand for a while, who knows.

 

But the fact that he can make that choice, where I would argue that a Thai degree wouldn’t give him that flexibility makes a world of difference in my book

Seems you made the right decision, I can tell you're proud of your son as you should be. 

[chrisandsu]

This post may offend some people but here goes , the truth is it all depends on the social status of your wife on how well your kid gets on in a Thai school system . If she’s from a solid middle class family then personally I’d send the child to a very good Thai private school ( it’s all about networking here) especially if you plan on living in Thailand for the foreseeable future .If the wife is an ex brass or from a lower caste then you are for sure better off going back home and starting up a fresh where no one can tell , that may be harsh but the Thais know ! International schools are a massive waste of money , we checked a  well known school out for my son and it was At best on par with a standard education in the west . If someone else is paying for that education (work) then by all means do it , if not go home . 

Edited October 6, 2018 by chrisandsu

[smotherb]

16 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

And what of your daughter in law? I'm assuming she also is college educated in the US. You kinda see where this is leading. We somehow think being educated in the west is the end all. If that were the case every adult would be college educated. A college degree doesn't always equate success and happiness. Yes, with a son I may have given the thought more consideration but I will never know. 

 

As for being stuck here, not quite. But, I believe with all its flaws a life in Thailand for an educated person is more laid back than one in the US.

Anyone who thinks being educated is the end of it all is a moron. You have  to take that education and make it work for you by showing the powers that be that you can do something. Do some research. Look at salaries by education level. 

 

Yes, my daughter-in-law is Thai and college educated here in Thailand. She has worked for O&G MNCs for over 10 years. She started as an administrative assistant in the engineering office because she spoke English very well. She kept getting recognition and was finally able to occupy a position which fit her degree. Had she had a Western degree she may not have had to go through that. However, she is not your average young woman; I think she is the exception.

[richard_smith237]

This interesting debate has been ongoing on another thread - this thread is better suited. 

 

Everyone's circumstances are different and we all do (or should be) doing the best we can to provide our children with the best possible education we can. 

 

 

In Thailand this involves a Top Tier International School in Bangkok (Bangkok Patana, St Andrews 77, Harrow, Shrewsbury, Bangkok Prep, ISB and also Amnuay Silpa Bilingual School)

 

There are of course, plenty of other International Schools, but as some posters have mentioned, even with high fees they are not all they are cracked up to be... One poster mentioned a School in Khon Kaen, another poster in another thread mentioned his lack of favor with Prem School in Chiang Mai... to respond to this, there are only a handful of International Schools I'd consider acceptable (mentioned above) for the very reason that their reputation for quality of education is not up to scratch and does not compare with the first hand comments I've been provided with by parents who's kids studied at the Top Tier International Schools (mentioned above) who are now at University in the UK or have graduated from good universities overseas. 

 

With regards to comparison, simply saying one is better than the other in comparing education in Thailand to education overseas is therefore not possible as there exists too much range.

 

It is my belief that the Top Tier International Schools in Bangkok (mentioned above) provide a better education than that which my son would receive in the UK at a normal comprehensive school, I'd suggest that the quality of education at the Top Tier International Schools in Bangkok is comparable e with some very good Grammar and Private schools in the UK, beyond this it is the name and prestige of the school in the UK which may take on a further degree of 'significance' when progressing into higher education establishments of prominence; 6th Form Colleges and Universities etc.

 

Of course, we could provide our children with the best possible education and they decide they'd prefer to be welder etc... that would be their choice.

 

As a parent, as long as I am providing the best opportunity within my means with the caveat of also providing a happy family life and bringing up a well rounded and balanced child - then I am doing my best. 

 

 

 

 

[chrisandsu]

31 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Anyone who thinks being educated is the end of it all is a moron. You have  to take that education and make it work for you by showing the powers that be that you can do something. Do some research. Look at salaries by education level. 

 

Yes, my daughter-in-law is Thai and college educated here in Thailand. She has worked for O&G MNCs for over 10 years. She started as an administrative assistant in the engineering office because she spoke English very well. She kept getting recognition and was finally able to occupy a position which fit her degree. Had she had a Western degree she may not have had to go through that. However, she is not your average young woman; I think she is the exception.

If you are just barely capable in Thailand you have a high chance of success . Thailand is very laid back . If an employee held the same position in let’s say the USA as they do in Thailand they would struggle massively! The work load would be far greater and you wouldn’t have 20 minions under you , you would be expected to do everything . 

[smotherb]

5 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

If you are just barely capable in Thailand you have a high chance of success . Thailand is very laid back . If an employee held the same position in let’s say the USA as they do in Thailand they would struggle massively! The work load would be far greater and you wouldn’t have 20 minions under you , you would be expected to do everything . 

Really? On which statistical platform is your posit based? So, you're telling me that all these girls selling their bodies would have a high chance of success in other businesses?

 

I wonder what percentage of high success Thais are foreign-educated? 

 

They would struggle massively?  I spent over 35 years developing automated systems for the US military-industrial complex; I saw foreign workers, even Thais, in almost every field at almost every level--and many of those systems were most sensitive and had to be as faultless as possible.

 

Certainly, not every Thai is capable of meeting better standards; like many Westerners who wile-away their lives in less than mediocre jobs and never seem to have enough in retirement.