Exclusive - Turkish police believe Saudi journalist Khashoggi was killed in consulate -sources

[rooster59]

Exclusive - Turkish police believe Saudi journalist Khashoggi was killed in consulate -sources

By Orhan Coskun

 

FILE PHOTO: A demonstrator holds picture of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi during a protest in front of Saudi Arabia's consulate in Istanbul, Turkey, October 5, 2018. REUTERS/Osman Orsal/File Photo

 

ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkish authorities believe that prominent Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who disappeared four days ago after entering Saudi Arabia's consulate in Istanbul, was killed inside the consulate, two Turkish sources said on Saturday.

 

"The initial assessment of the Turkish police is that Mr. Khashoggi has been killed at the consulate of Saudi Arabia in Istanbul. We believe that the murder was premeditated and the body was subsequently moved out of the consulate," one Turkish official told Reuters.

 

The sources did not say how they believed the killing was carried out.

 

There was no immediate comment from the Saudi authorities. Saudi Arabia's consul-general told Reuters earlier on Saturday that his country was helping search for Khashoggi, and dismissed talk of his possible abduction.

 

Khashoggi, who has lived in self-imposed exile in Washington for the past year fearing retribution for his criticism of Saudi policies, entered the consulate on Tuesday to secure documents for his forthcoming marriage, according to his fiancé, who waited outside. He has not been heard of since.

 

Since then, Turkish and Saudi officials have offered conflicting accounts of his disappearance, with Ankara saying there was no evidence that he had left the diplomatic mission and Riyadh saying he exited the premises the same day.

 

A Turkish security source told Reuters that a group of 15 Saudi nationals, including some officials, had arrived in Istanbul in two planes and entered the consulate on the same day Khashoggi was there, and later left the country.

 

The source said Turkish officials were trying to identify them. Turkey's Anadolu news agency also reported that the group of Saudis were briefly at the consulate.

 

DEEPENING DIVISIONS

 

Khashoggi's disappearance is likely to further deepen divisions between Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Relations were already strained after Turkey sent troops to the Gulf state of Qatar last year in a show of support after its Gulf neighbours, including Saudi Arabia, imposed an embargo on Doha.

 

Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman said this week that the kingdom would allow Turkey to search the consulate for Khashoggi. But he also criticized Turkey's crackdown following a 2016 failed coup against Erdogan.

 

On Saturday, Yasin Aktay, Erdogan's AK Party adviser and a friend of Khashoggi, told Qatari broadcaster Al Jazeera: "We demand a convincing clarification from Saudi Arabia, and what the crown prince offered is not convincing."

 

He also said what happened to Khashoggi was a crime and those responsible for his disappearance must be tried, Al Jazeera said.

 

Turkish prosecutors have begun an investigation into the case, officials said on Saturday, and a spokesman for Erdogan's AK Party said authorities would uncover his whereabouts.

 

"A journalist disappearing in such a way is something a confident country like Turkey will look at sensitively. The condition of the lost journalist, details on him and who is responsible for this will be uncovered," Omer Celik said.

 

Khashoggi is a familiar face on political talk shows on Arab satellite television networks and used to advise Prince Turki al-Faisal, former Saudi intelligence chief and ambassador to the United States and Britain.

 

Over the past year, he has written columns for newspapers including the Washington Post criticising Saudi policies towards Qatar and Canada, the war in Yemen and a crackdown on dissent which has seen dozens of people detained.

 

On Saturday Saudi Arabia's consul-general in Istanbul, Mohammad al-Otaibi, opened up his mission to Reuters to show that Khashoggi was not on the premises, and said talk of his abduction was baseless.

 

Opening cupboards, filing cabinets and wooden panels covering air conditioning units, Otaibi walked through the six floors of the building including a basement prayer room, offices, visa counters, kitchens and toilets as well as storage and security rooms.

 

He said the consulate was equipped with cameras but they did not record footage, so no images could be retrieved of Khashoggi entering or leaving the consulate, which is ringed by police barriers and has high security fences topped with barbed wire.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-07

[klauskunkel]

2 hours ago, rooster59 said:

the consulate was equipped with cameras but they did not record footage

Saudi statement: We have cameras, but they don't act like cameras. This is to confuse foreign Mission Impossible agents.

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Turkish authorities believe that prominent Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who disappeared four days ago after entering Saudi Arabia's consulate in Istanbul, was killed inside the consulate, two Turkish sources said on Saturday.

Turkish authorities projecting what they’d do onto the Saudi authorities?

 

[AhFarangJa]

I would not trust anything that either of these authorities say.

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

I would not trust anything that either of these authorities say.

Khashoggi's disappearance at the Saudi consulate was reported before the Turks got involved.

[KKr]

 

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Since then, Turkish and Saudi officials have offered conflicting accounts of his disappearance, with Ankara saying there was no evidence that he had left the diplomatic mission and Riyadh saying he exited the premises the same day.

 

A Turkish security source told Reuters that a group of 15 Saudi nationals, including some officials, had arrived in Istanbul in two planes and entered the consulate on the same day Khashoggi was there, and later left the country.

 

The source said Turkish officials were trying to identify them. Turkey's Anadolu news agency also reported that the group of Saudis were briefly at the consulate

so, 15 people came into the country, and 15, or, more likely, 14+1 left.
No passport records, no flight manifest
 

Edited October 7, 2018 by KKr

[PETERTHEEATER]

Exclusive - Turkish police believe Saudi journalist Khashoggi was killed in consulate -sources

 

Exclusive? I heard it on the BBC this morning.

[Saladin]

Let us not be delicate about the feelings of our good friends and allies, the Saudis. The correct term is "murdered", not killed.

[bristolboy]

Given the thuggish and impulsive nature of the Clown Prince, this incident should come as no surprise.

[Ulic]

While I support criticism by any reporter of the Saudi regime this guy left me scratching my head. While he criticized the current regime he supported the last crown prince/ regime so I am not really sure what to make of him. As for Erdogan, he is steering Turkey deeper and deeper to Muslim fundamentalism/extremism so I really can't guess why he has taken this action to publicly throw the Saudi government to the western journalist wolves so to speak. Maybe to show that America's middle east ally is far worse than he is. 

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, Ulic said:

While I support criticism by any reporter of the Saudi regime this guy left me scratching my head. While he criticized the current regime he supported the last crown prince/ regime so I am not really sure what to make of him. As for Erdogan, he is steering Turkey deeper and deeper to Muslim fundamentalism/extremism so I really can't guess why he has taken this action to publicly throw the Saudi government to the western journalist wolves so to speak. Maybe to show that America's middle east ally is far worse than he is. 

 

Turkey and Saudi Arabia have been at odds for some time now. This is mostly to do with Erdogan's wish to assume a leading role in the ME and the Muslim World. From this angle, both the "disappearance" occurring in Turkey and Turkey outing Saudi Arabia are variations of tit-for-tat, spit-in-your-eye sort of thing. The Islamist elements Erdogan supports/promotes/relies on are somewhat different than those propagated by Saudi Arabia. It's perfectly alright to dislike them both.

 

Edit:

 

About the "guy" - can be said to represent the more pro-reform elements in Saudi Arabia, and had quite a few run-ins with authorities (political and religious). And while reform have been touted as something of an agenda with the current Crown Prince, he (a) doesn't care much for criticism (b) got to manage a balancing act vs. the religious establishment, and (c) the "guy" was also critical of US policies in the ME, plus (d) sort of associated with a different faction within the Saudi Royal family. What (if any) of these played the main role in his "disappearance" I do not know, but there will be a couple of in-depth media commentaries covering that, probably come week-end. 

Edited October 7, 2018 by Morch

[oldrunner]

Now, for the most important question...Ask me if I give a fart.

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, oldrunner said:

Now, for the most important question...Ask me if I give a fart.

Apparently enough of one to co.ment here.

[JemJem]

To be honest, folks, I really don't see Erdogan taking a major anti-Saudi stance, even after such an incident.

 

Even though Turkey-Saudi relations have sort of deteriorated in recent years, Erdogan has never really done or said any major anti-Saudi stuff. Erdogan knows how messed up Turkey's economy is now, and knows that he needs Gulf money overall too (Qatari money won't suffice). Also, Erdogan has always been ideologically very much pro-Gulf Islam. He was very close to the Saudis in his youth actually.

 

The signs are already present that he probably won't engage in any major anti-Saudi action. As you know, he is a guy who likes to make a big deal out of things that would suit him, and often quickly. And, so far, not much has come from him, except that the matter would be thoroughly investigated, etc.

 

Anyway, that is just my guess. Time will tell what will really happen.

[simple1]

20 hours ago, oldrunner said:

Now, for the most important question...Ask me if I give a fart.

You don't care about freedom of the press?

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, JemJem said:

To be honest, folks, I really don't see Erdogan taking a major anti-Saudi stance, even after such an incident.

 

Even though Turkey-Saudi relations have sort of deteriorated in recent years, Erdogan has never really done or said any major anti-Saudi stuff. Erdogan knows how messed up Turkey's economy is now, and knows that he needs Gulf money overall too (Qatari money won't suffice). Also, Erdogan has always been ideologically very much pro-Gulf Islam. He was very close to the Saudis in his youth actually.

 

The signs are already present that he probably won't engage in any major anti-Saudi action. As you know, he is a guy who likes to make a big deal out of things that would suit him, and often quickly. And, so far, not much has come from him, except that the matter would be thoroughly investigated, etc.

 

Anyway, that is just my guess. Time will tell what will really happen.

I suppose it's possible that this story leaked despite the efforts of the Erdogan government, but it doesn't seem likely. When Erdogan landed some troops in Qatar as a challenge to a contemplated invasion of Qatar by the Saudis (separate reports from the NY Times, Bloomberg, and the New Yorker cite American officials as saying that only forceful US warnings put a stop to said invasion), he seriously enraged the Saudis. Still, Turkey does a lot more trade with the Saudis and UAE than it does with Qatar. It's not easy to predict what will happen next when you have 2 volatile and dubious megalomaniacs like Erdogan and MbS in charge of their respective nations.

[JemJem]

So far, the response from the Turks and Americans has been very lame. Well, actually, sadly, there hasn't even been a response from the Americans as of now, as far as I can see via some googling. The guy has been (or, rather, sadly, HAD been, unfortunately and most probably) living in exile in the US for quite some time now. Not even some concern has been expressed by Trump.

 

By the way, here is an article about the incident and about Khashoggi.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/did-the-saudis-murder-jamal-khashoggi

Edited October 8, 2018 by JemJem

[observer90210]

In today's oil dependant world if anybody had to choose,  say between France, USA, UK or the Saudis, the choice would be very rapid. Erdogan is no exception the rule and will not offence or cross the line with Saudi Arabia.

 

One may wonder however, if the CIA did not collaborate with Saudia Arabia on the issue.....????..such crimes are not perpetrated in a haste and require preparation, logistics and multilateral state-level, accomplices.

Edited October 8, 2018 by observer90210

[nausea]

Totally disgusting, when a sovereign state can abuse the rule of law in such an obvious way and get away with it. There needs to be some consequences to this - clear, hard, and leaving no doubt in people's minds that this sort of behaviour is just not acceptable. It started with the Russians, now we have the Saudis getting in on the act. 

[Briggsy]

The BBC relegated this story very quickly, no doubt on British Government advice after senior ministers no doubt received some phone calls from Riyadh. Can't upset the Saudis. Death of a Princess and all that.

[bendejo]

Diplomatic immunity of envoys, and anything within the embassy/consulate grounds.  Let's see how the world's great nations that champion democracy stand on permitting murder in such cases.

 

There has always been the discrete removal of those getting in the way of things by the powers that be.  But these days it's getting more commonplace to bypass the discretion part.  Internationally.

 

 

[Morch]

On 10/8/2018 at 8:30 PM, JemJem said:

So far, the response from the Turks and Americans has been very lame. Well, actually, sadly, there hasn't even been a response from the Americans as of now, as far as I can see via some googling. The guy has been (or, rather, sadly, HAD been, unfortunately and most probably) living in exile in the US for quite some time now. Not even some concern has been expressed by Trump.

 

By the way, here is an article about the incident and about Khashoggi.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/did-the-saudis-murder-jamal-khashoggi

 

Khashoggi was living in self-imposed exile in the US, but it needs to pointed out that he was not a fan of US foreign policy in the ME. That would be somewhat more relevant with regard to Republican administrations, and certainly when it comes to Trump's.

 

I think even the link provided references an official US response, if not quite what some posters had in mind. Then again, expecting the Trump administration to champion certain causes is either an uninformed position, or worse, a contrived one. All the more so when it comes to a person airing not particularly popular views.

 

And sure, it does put the US in a bit of situation. Like it or not, SA is an ally - not the easiest to put up with, not the  most trustworthy, but that's how things are. International relations often involve such unsavory entanglements. Some posters seem to have issues accepting that countries often base their foreign policy on interests, with ideals taking the backseat. In the same way, the US current relations with Turkey are troubled, to put it mildly, guess they are playing it careful as to not aggravate things on that front as well.

[bristolboy]

On 10/8/2018 at 8:38 PM, observer90210 said:

In today's oil dependant world if anybody had to choose,  say between France, USA, UK or the Saudis, the choice would be very rapid. Erdogan is no exception the rule and will not offence or cross the line with Saudi Arabia.

 

One may wonder however, if the CIA did not collaborate with Saudia Arabia on the issue.....????..such crimes are not perpetrated in a haste and require preparation, logistics and multilateral state-level, accomplices.

Why would it require the CIA or some other agent to help the Saudis? What logistically couldn't they accomplish unless they had the aid of the CIA or some other agency? What is so logistically difficult about performing an assassination that takes place within the confines of a consulate?