BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[skatewash]

6 hours ago, soleddy said:

Questions:

 

As someone suggested, is it possible to use the 800k as your current account and spend it all year until 3 months before your due date?

 

That's what I do in Phuket.

 

If you do transfer 800'000 to here, which is the best interest-bearing account? Is it taxed?

 

I use a Mee Tae Dai Savings account at Krungsri Bank.  It currently pays 1.3% interest.  I used to use fixed-rate term deposit accounts at Bangkok Bank which generally paid higher interest but automatically withheld 10% of interest paid and then had to file a Thai Income Tax return to get that amount refunded.  No such problem with the Krungsri account as it is not classed as a fixed-rate term deposit, just a regular savings account.  My interest earned on the 800,000 THB in the account does not make me liable to pay any Thai income taxes or indeed to file a Thai income tax return.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by skatewash

[sumrit]

9 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

I agree, however Thai rules state 400/800,000 per year or 40/65000 per month or a total of 40/800,000 over the 12mths averaging to the said sums.

The Embassy claim they cannot meet the Thai requirements to verify these amounts.

Immigration are yet to announce how this can be achieved without the letter.

Maybe the Embassy should be looking at Thai statements as proof then they can verify the amounts claimed.

2

Can somebody tell us how other Embassies (eg: USA, Australia, Canada) word their Income letters in order to comply with Thai Immigration requirements.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Has anyone inquired from Immigration what will be acceptable?

 

You really ought to give them time to breathe. Immigration will be processing extensions with income letters well into the new year, and possibly to early June.

Personally I wouldn't expect anything from them this side of Christmas.

[robertson468]

2 hours ago, richiejom said:

I just got my embassy letter last week as well, but they only last 6 months.... and Im getting my marriage extension soon... but they check your documents every 90 days don't they?  so it won't last a year...it will last 6 months into your/my 1 year ????

No, my Visa is for one year, which is clearly stated on the stamp in my Passport.  It also had nothing to do with the 90 days reporting, which is a seperate altogether requirement.

[Psychic]

6 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Can somebody tell us how other Embassies (eg: USA, Australia, Canada) word their Income letters in order to comply with Thai Immigration requirements.

The pertinent part from the Canadian Embassy was that according to my affidavit and pension statement I received..$XXXX monthly in pension.

 

I provided them with a letter from my private pension source as verification.

 

I could also have provided them with an income tax return if they had requested it.

 

Starting several hears ago I then needed to have it verified and stamped at the MFA in Chaeng Wattana (strangely enough only for marriage but not for retirement).

 

According to the Pattaya News article Canada has no plans on stopping issuing the letters. I hope this stays that way but I guess its up to Thai Immigration.

[Peterw42]

17 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Can somebody tell us how other Embassies (eg: USA, Australia, Canada) word their Income letters in order to comply with Thai Immigration requirements.

They dont, Income letters from USA, Australia, Canada are personal declarations/affidavits written be the citizen and signed by the citizen, the consulate just verifies that you wrote and signed the letter. They dont even know the contents of the letter.

Unlike UK income letter that are written and signed by the consulate and the citizen does not sign it.

 

My last Australian income letter literally said " I earn in excess of 65k baht a month" and my signature.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Peterw42

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Why do you want this money to come from ABROAD ?? 

It has never been a requirement and could be a problem for many people if it became the new rule !

A good number of on-retirement expats live here on investments they made in Thailand (condos for rent, bank funds, stock exchange...). They don't need (or have) money coming from abroad.

Sorry but have you not been reading this posting. FROM 1st JAN IT IS THE NEW RULE.

[aonangkrabi]

The embassy of the Netherlands used to give the income letter without checking. This has changed and they actually verify your income. If the Netherlands' embassy can check this, why can't the UK embassy do likewise?

[tropo]

15 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Can somebody tell us how other Embassies (eg: USA, Australia, Canada) word their Income letters in order to comply with Thai Immigration requirements.

For Australia, it's called a Statutory Declaration. You word it yourself in a provided blank space.

[Jesse123]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

For Australia, it's called a Statutory Declaration. You word it yourself in a provided blank space.

But you have to visit the embassy?

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Sorry but have you not been reading this posting. FROM 1st JAN IT IS THE NEW RULE.

Its not a NEW RULE, The only announcement that has been made is the UK consulate will no longer do income letters, thats it, the rest is wild speculation. There are no new rules from immigration period.

[sumrit]

6 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

They dont, Income letters from USA, Australia, Canada are personal declarations/affidavits written be the citizen and signed by the citizen, the consulate just verifies that you wrote and signed the letter. They dont even know the contents of the letter.

Unlike UK income letter that are written and signed by the consulate and the citizen does not sign it.

 

My last Australian income letter literally said " I earn in excess of 65k baht a month" and my signature.

But do you then have to visit the Embassy to get their verification signature?

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

why don't you want to deposit the 800K in a thai bank? might be safer than US bank

 

Not even in your wildest dreams would 800K in a Thai bank be safer than in a U.S. bank.

 

U.S. bank deposits are government insured up to $250,000 U.S. per account. And there, the U.S. has a long history of actually honoring its bank deposit insurance commitments, unlike Thailand, which has little to no history with such things since the bank deposit insurance law here is a relatively recent creation.

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JusticeGB]

Disgraceful answer from supposedly British Embassy. I pay over £2,000 a year in UK taxes to the UK Government and my pension income is supported by P60's which are officially recognised by the UK Government. I would have extreme difficulty getting permission for my wife to live in the UK but the Embassy says no problem put the best part of £20,000 in a bank account in Thailand for 3 months and you will be able to stay there with no problems. Hopefully some solution will be found without having to resort to brown envelopes!

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, Jesse123 said:

But you have to visit the embassy?

Technically you could produce the same document if you could find an Australian Justice of the Peace (JP) in Thailand. That is the sole participation of the OZ consulate, they witness your signature.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Why do you want this money to come from ABROAD ?? 

It has never been a requirement and could be a problem for many people if it became the new rule !

A good number of on-retirement expats live here on investments they made in Thailand (condos for rent, bank funds, stock exchange...). They don't need (or have) money coming from abroad.

My money all comes from abroad, but I obtain it in a combination of overseas debit and credit card spending, ATM withdrawals and wire transfers. Nearly half of my monthly spending money doesn't actually arrive at a bank in Thailand, so conforming to a new system as proposed here would mean a total readjustment of how I use my money. Of course, it can be done, but it would be very inconvenient.

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

Its not a NEW RULE, The only announcement that has been made is the UK consulate will no longer do income letters, thats it, the rest is wild speculation. There are no new rules from immigration period.

Ask the British Consulate on 02 305 8333. 1 for English, 2 for Consular Services, 3 for Notary Services. They will tell you that it is the Thai Immigration who have changed the rule. They told me twice yesterday.

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, sumrit said:

But do you then have to visit the Embassy to get their verification signature?

 

 

Other way round, they verify your signature, you sign in front of them 

[anon537687643]

So if this is coming from Thai Immigration, then surely other embassies will be or would have issue same new directives ! So is Thai authorities just after Brit retirees? At the end of the day we can ask the question. Why is this being done now?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[gdhm]

7 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It all states quite clearly what will be required on the UK Government website what will be required after 1st January 2019 when no more letters are issued. The money MUST then be in a Thai bank account either 800k lump sum or 65k a month income proved by a letter from your THAI BANK. The money MUST come into Thailand

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters

 

With respect, what the British Embassy says will be necessary is irrelevant, because its Thai Immigration that makes the rules on what it wants and will accept as proof.  Currently they say differently to what the British Embassy says. Additionally, should this turn out not to be a new requirement by Thai Imm. but possibly a cost cutting exercise or easier life for British Embassy in Thailand, then I suspect without an British Embassy Proof of Income letter Thai Imm. will only accept ฿800,000 (retirement) or ฿400,000 (marriage) for Brit Visas and extension renewals as Brits will not be able to meet current income or combination requirements without an Embassy Letter.

 

Hopefully we will soon get clarification on whether Thai Imm. or British Embassy has suddenly triggered the the ceasing of the British Embassy Proof of Income Letter.  If it is Thai Imm., then I wonder why Proof of Income Letter applications to 12/12/2018 are still acceptable.

 

Some people have said maybe Brit Embassy does not wish to risk being liable for incorrect support of declared income, HOWEVER they changed their Proof of Income Letter wording a couple of years ago which IMHO avoided them accepting responsibility if inaccurate. It may be Thai Imm. have also realized the changed wording is no longer adequate for what they need as proof.

 

----

A thought came to mind.  If every Brit (who can in time - how many will not be able) switches to ฿800,000 (retirement) or ฿400,000 (marriage) in a Thai Savings account and just leaves it there then surely Thai Imm. will want to know what they are living off and require adequate proof it is not from earnings in Thailand (if a Retirement) Visa), adequate. If so we could end up having to prove day to day living income anyway.

[Psychic]

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

They dont, Income letters from USA, Australia, Canada are personal declarations/affidavits written be the citizen and signed by the citizen, the consulate just verifies that you wrote and signed the letter. They dont even know the contents of the letter.

Unlike UK income letter that are written and signed by the consulate and the citizen does not sign it.

 

My last Australian income letter literally said " I earn in excess of 65k baht a month" and my signature.

Basically true for Canada.

I fill in and sign a form showing my income with documentation backing it up.

The embassy issues a stamped letter saying that I have made a sworn affidavit and provided confirming documentation attesting to the amount.

[anon537687643]

Disgraceful answer from supposedly British Embassy. I pay over £2,000 a year in UK taxes to the UK Government and my pension income is supported by P60's which are officially recognised by the UK Government. I would have extreme difficulty getting permission for my wife to live in the UK but the Embassy says no problem put the best part of £20,000 in a bank account in Thailand for 3 months and you will be able to stay there with no problems. Hopefully some solution will be found without having to resort to brown envelopes!

I can understand the anger! If the UK Embassy is doing this under pressure from Thai Immigration, let’s hear about that! Or is it just cutbacks and not wanting to do anything for UK taxpaying expats ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[galt67]

6 minutes ago, tropo said:

My money all comes from abroad, but I obtain it in a combination of overseas debit and credit card spending, ATM withdrawals and wire transfers. Nearly half of my monthly spending money doesn't actually arrive at a bank in Thailand, so conforming to a new system as proposed here would mean a total readjustment of how I use my money. Of course, it can be done, but it would be very inconvenient.

From the US Embassy BKK the '65k month income' must be provable:

 

Applicant must be able to provide proof of a pension or other regular income from a source outside of Thailand

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/thai-visas-americans/

 

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

So if this is coming from Thai Immigration, then surely other embassies will be or would have issue same new directives ! So is Thai authorities just after Brit retirees? At the end of the day we can ask the question. Why is this being done now?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Its not coming from immigration, 90% of it is coming from the Thaivisa sewing circle gossip group. Immigration has made no announcements, in fact people have called immigration and been told its business as usual.

[K950]

On 10/8/2018 at 2:21 PM, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get my Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

Be sure to post your findings on this. It's going to be interesting to hear what's next for the U.S. Thanks in advance.

 

Regards,

John

[Kadilo]

12 minutes ago, richiejom said:

This is what I said to him...

 

Surely the Thai Immigration alternative should be to show 3 months deposits of 65-40K a month...I don't know how you could prove income otherwise if you applied from your home country or in my case applying after arriving on a Non Immigrant Single Entry.  (You're not going to be depositing 12 months prior to arriving)   It doesn't make sense

 

 Luckily Ive got an income letter now

As in all these type of things people start putting their interpretation on things then it’s gets repeated and repeated until suddenly it becomes the norm. 

As of yet, Thai immigration have not said anything so until they do, and the likes of UbonJoe have their definitive take I am happy to sit and wait. 

It will all come out soon. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Kadilo

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, galt67 said:

From the US Embassy BKK the '65k month income' must be provable:

 

Applicant must be able to provide proof of a pension or other regular income from a source outside of Thailand

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/thai-visas-americans/

 

Doesn't really mean anything new at all. They are not asking for proof. They are saying, correctly, that applicants need to prepared to show proof at immigration to back up the amount in the letter. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

They dont, Income letters from USA, Australia, Canada are personal declarations/affidavits written be the citizen and signed by the citizen, the consulate just verifies that you wrote and signed the letter. They dont even know the contents of the letter.

 

 

I'm not sure how you can say that in your final sentence above.  On the U.S. income affidavit, the applicant is writing and declaring a specific amount of monthly income. And the consulate officer is signing and stamping that document that confirms you, the applicant, made that declaration. So the officer does know and see the amount you're declaring. They just don't get into making you prove all the details of the declared amount.

 

[Suradit69]

On October 8, 2561 BE at 2:21 PM, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get myopic was Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

I was at the US embassy in Bangkok to get the income affidavit a couple of weeks ago. As chatty as the consular officers are, no one mentioned an end to the service. They do affidavits for a variety of purposes so I can't see them stopping. Policy for such services is set by the US Dept of State, not by what other embassies may be up to.

 

whether or not immigrations continues to accept the affidavit is another matter, but I gather nothing has been issued by them.

[sumrit]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Other way round, they verify your signature, you sign in front of them 

Cheers. So what it boils down to, and the difference is that you must all visit the Embassy to sign and get your letter while, although we apparently need to supply more accurate information. we don't visit our Embassy for our signature to be verified by them.