BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Tanoshi]

As I've stated before, there is no reason why Thai Immigration cannot accept income deposited in a Thai bank, with proof in the form of a passbook and letter from the Thai bank, in exactly the same method as for deposited funds.

 

Whether they will or not remains to be seen.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Tanoshi

[Shoeless Joe]

Does anyone know if any other embassies in Thailand use / have used the British embassy verified "Pension Letter" process? Because...

 

1) If yes, are those embassies going to have to change their system(s) as well?

 

2) If no, (that is the British Embassy is the only embassy offering verified "Pension Letters") it beggars belief that the embassy can't be a little more sympathetic and helpful to British citizens living in Thailand by providing a reasonable and workable solution to a problem created by them, that will satisfy the Thai immigration authority's requirements without being too onerous.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

[Shoeless Joe]

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

As I've stated before, there is no reason why Thai Immigration cannot accept income deposited in a Thai bank, with proof in the form of a passbook and letter from the Thai bank, in exactly the same method as for deposited funds.

 

Whether they will or not remains to be seen.

I couldn't agree with you more...why on earth does an easily workable solution seem (at the moment) so difficult to put in place?

 

Joe

[Pattaya46]

18 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

there is no reason why Thai Immigration cannot accept income deposited in a Thai bank,

with proof in the form of a passbook and letter from the Thai bank, in exactly the same method as for deposited funds.

No reasons?

Except that 12 successive deposits of 65k on your account do not prove that you had on one year an income of at least 12 x 65k... (recycling)

Also it would mean some additional work for banks (more complicated than just checking the 800k balance) who may not agree to do so.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Pattaya46

[Shoeless Joe]

Also (while I'm on a roll), why do those ex-pats who have the 800k/400k funding solution readily avalable even feel the need to comment on this worrying situation (apart of course, from glorifiying in their smug, vainglorious sarcasm)?

 

Joe

[Shoeless Joe]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

No reasons?

Except that 12 successive deposits of 65k on your account do not prove that you had on one year an income of 12 x 65k...

Also it would mean some additional work for banks who may not agree to do so.

Well, we're going to have to agree to differ, inasmuch as one deposit of 800k / 400k deposited annually, 3 or so months prior to the visa renewal also doesn't necessarily qualify as income.

 

Joe

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

No reasons?

Except that 12 successive deposits of 65k on your account do not prove that you had on one year an income of 12 x 65k...

Also it would mean some additional work for banks (more complicated than just checking the 800k balance) who may not agree to do so.

How hard would it be to pluck out a monthly deposit on 12 bank statements.

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Well, we're going to have to agree to differ, inasmuch as one deposit of 800k / 400k deposited annually, 3 or so months prior to the visa renewal also doesn't necessarily qualify as income.

With the 800k method, Immigration knows that you had at least 800k during 3 months.

With 65k monthly, it could be the only money you have is this 65k (!), very far from the 12x65k required until now.

[The Cobra]

Look, the Thai authorities have changed nothing, what was required before is still required today, no changes.

 

The BE are the ones creating the current issue. No one else.

 

Because of the way the Thai authorities work it will take months for any changes to filter up the change be agreed and pass down again to the front desk.

 

In the meantime, the local offices, incapable of thinking outside the box or possibly not allowed to, will follow basic requirements of a,b,c . Conform you get it, dont and you wont and you'll have to try another route to that extension.

 

I suspect there will be many switching to "married visa" as thats easier financially to achieve and prove etc.

 

Perhaps with the torrent of such switches it may make the Thai I.O do something to sort this missing piece of the process the BE have created. 

IT WILL TAKE TIME.

 

Only slight saving grace is there is around 8 months to figure it out, affer that ........lets just wait and see.????

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

As I've stated before, there is no reason why Thai Immigration cannot accept income deposited in a Thai bank, with proof in the form of a passbook and letter from the Thai bank, in exactly the same method as for deposited funds.

 

Whether they will or not remains to be seen.

The reasons have already been stated.

1. The BE have already wound TI up by publicly lying about them. They did not tell BE that they must do more diligent verification or they would stop accepting the letters. They have not agreed to recognise proof of income going into a Thai Bank account as an alternative to embassy letters. Thai Immigration are not now going to be disposed to changing their procedures as a result of this. Far from it, I would imagine British passport holders will be singled out for extra scrutiny as a result of this.

 

2. They are not going to change their procedures just because one embassy has changed it's procedures.

 

3. There's good reason why they developed the embassy letter procedure in the first place, those reasons haven't changed. They would need to do a lot of extra work in examining the evidence of income and accept responsibility for it. Not the Thai way.

 

It is what it is and will stay that way unless the BE has a change of heart but as their decision was made as a result of a cost benefit analysis, that ain't going to happen either.

 

                                                       FCO accountants rule!

[Shoeless Joe]

6 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

With the 800k method, Immigration knows that you had at least 800k during 3 months.

With 65k monthly, it could be the only money you have is this 65k (!), very far from the 12x65k required until now.

Well that's not right either...Really, I don't know why you are being so intransigent about this. An auditable trail for pension incomes is easily provided. I and many others like me can provide proof of monthly and annual income via letters and statements from our pension providers.

 

Joe

Edited October 16, 2018 by Shoeless Joe

[Spidey]

Just now, Shoeless Joe said:

Well that's not right either...Really, I don't know why you are being so intransigent about his. An auditable trail for pension incomes is easily provided. I and many others like me can provide proof of monthly and annual income via letters and statements from our pension providers.

 

Joe

It's Thai Immigration being intransigent about this, for good reason. See my post above.

[Shoeless Joe]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It is what it is and will stay that way unless the BE has a change of heart but as their decision was made as a result of a cost benefit analysis, that ain't going to happen either.

<Sigh> "Cost benefit analysis"

 

Yet another assumption!

 

Joe

[Jingthing]

Well that's not right either...Really, I don't know why you are being so intransigent about this. An auditable trail for pension incomes is easily provided. I and many others like me can provide proof of monthly and annual income via letters and statements from our pension providers.
 
Joe

Exactly!

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[Pattaya46]

4 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Well that's not right either...Really, I don't know why you are being so intransigent about his. An auditable trail for pension incomes is easily provided. I and many others like me can provide proof of monthly and annual income via letters and statements from our pension providers.

- Not everyone is in the easy case of income from a pension. Some have several sources of very different types or revenues

- Thai immigration will never accept foreign documents as main proof of revenues (but they may ask to see them)

- It seems that Thai immigration asked the British Embassy to make a better job because of many false declarations. They will not change for another system that would easily allow fraud!

[Spidey]

18 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Also (while I'm on a roll), why do those ex-pats who have the 800k/400k funding solution readily avalable even feel the need to comment on this worrying situation (apart of course, from glorifiying in their smug, vainglorious sarcasm)?

 

Joe

Although I do have my 800k in the UK (actually need 1m in Thailand for 4 months to be practical), I would lose a significant amount of interest in moving it and incur costs for moving it here (and back again, if that were my plan).

 

It's also always been my policy not to keep large amounts of money in Thailand, for various reasons.

[Spidey]

21 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Well, we're going to have to agree to differ, inasmuch as one deposit of 800k / 400k deposited annually, 3 or so months prior to the visa renewal also doesn't necessarily qualify as income.

 

Joe

Not the intention of the 800k. It's to ensure that you have sufficient funds in Thailand to support yourself for the next 12 months.

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

They did not tell BE that they must do more diligent verification or they would stop accepting the letters.

They asked them to verify the Pension proof being provided to produce the letter.

For legal reasons they cannot do that.

8 minutes ago, Spidey said:

They have not agreed to recognise proof of income going into a Thai Bank account as an alternative to embassy letters.

Immigration may yet make an announcement. It's still early days and negotiations are still continuing with other Embassies.

 

17 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Thai Immigration are not now going to be disposed to changing their procedures as a result of this.

They don't have to change anything. Immigration Orders only state proof of a monthly income of 40-65,000 respectively.

It doesn't state by Embassy Income letters. 

[Mark1066]

11 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Although I do have my 800k in the UK (actually need 1m in Thailand for 4 months to be practical), I would lose a significant amount of interest in moving it and incur costs for moving it here (and back again, if that were my plan).

 

It's also always been my policy not to keep large amounts of money in Thailand, for various reasons.

Have you been trying to avoid making money on the appreciating baht?

[Tanoshi]

27 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

I and many others like me can provide proof of monthly and annual income via letters and statements from our pension providers.

But the Embassy cannot verify the genuinity and content of the Pension letters.

[billd766]

35 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

With the 800k method, Immigration knows that you had at least 800k during 3 months.

With 65k monthly, it could be the only money you have is this 65k (!), very far from the 12x65k required until now.

 

Not if you produce 12 months bank statements.

[Spidey]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

They asked them to verify the Pension proof being provided to produce the letter.

For legal reasons they cannot do that.

Immigration may yet make an announcement. It's still early days and negotiations are still continuing with other Embassies.

 

They don't have to change anything. Immigration Orders only state proof of a monthly income of 40-65,000 respectively.

It doesn't state by Embassy Income letters. 

They ask them for the same thing every year, they did not say that they would refuse to accept the letters if the BE didn't comply.

 

Immigration will not be making any announcements for the reasons that I've clearly stated. There is zero evidence that negotiations are going on with other embassies. Also, I would have expected at least one of the affected embassies to have made some statements if that were the case. Of the affected embassies that have made statements, every single one has said that they don't expect changes to their current procedures (income letters) in the foreseeable future.

 

 What it says, or doesn't say in Immigration orders are irrelevant as Immigration will only accept embassy income letters now, or in the future. Good luck with taking a copy of Immigration Orders into Your local IO when you go to extend your visa and arguing the toss with them. I guarantee that you'll be on the next plane home.

[Shoeless Joe]

21 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Although I do have my 800k in the UK (actually need 1m in Thailand for 4 months to be practical), I would lose a significant amount of interest in moving it and incur costs for moving it here (and back again, if that were my plan).

 

It's also always been my policy not to keep large amounts of money in Thailand, for various reasons.

Again you miss the point! I said " why do those ex-pats who have the 800k/400k funding solution readily avalable even feel the need to comment on this worrying situation (apart of course, from glorifiying in their smug, vainglorious sarcasm)?" Your response only serves to reinforce MY comment. This isn't about you losing interest on your funding...

 

Joe

[Shoeless Joe]

9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

But the Embassy cannot verify the genuinity and content of the Pension letters.

But they don't have to! The applicant can easily do that with letters and statements from their pensions providers!

 

Joe

[Spidey]

Just now, Shoeless Joe said:

This isn't about you losing interest on your funding...

It is for me. Not glorifying in my smug, vainglorious sarcasm, far from it, I'm genuinely concerned for the fate of my fellow British expats, who aren't as fortunate as me and don't have access to a spare 800k baht, but do have families in Thailand who rely on them. Something that a selfish , self cantered person, who only thinks about themselves would probably fail to understand.

 

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

But they don't have to! The applicant can easily do that with letters and statements from their pensions providers!

 

Joe

Which is exactly what I currently do. Not good enough for the British Embassy apparently.

[Shoeless Joe]

34 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

- Thai immigration will never accept foreign documents as main proof of revenues (but they may ask to see them)

- It seems that Thai immigration asked the British Embassy to make a better job because of many false declarations. They will not change for another system that would easily allow fraud!

1) "Thai immigration will never accept foreign documents as main proof of revenues" Well that's just complete guesswork on your part.

2) And when you say "it seems etc., etc." Well that just means you don't have a clue as to what might happen, any more than me or anyone else.

 

It would be a good idea if you stopped guessing and making erroneous statements.

 

Joe

 

[Spidey]

Just now, Shoeless Joe said:

1) "Thai immigration will never accept foreign documents as main proof of revenues" Well that's just complete guesswork on your part.

No that's based on Thai Immigration history and a knowledge of how the system works.

[Tanoshi]

16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

They ask them for the same thing every year, they did not say that they would refuse to accept the letters if the BE didn't comply.

No, this time they asked them to verify the individual Pension letters we send as proof of income.                   The BE can only verify the Government state pension, not private pensions.                                                    If I gave you my name, address, pension provider and account number and you enquired about my pension, you'd get a two word reply 'Data Protection'.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Tanoshi

[Jingthing]

1) "Thai immigration will never accept foreign documents as main proof of revenues" Well that's just complete guesswork on your part.
2) And when you say "it seems etc., etc." Well that just means you don't have a clue as to what might happen, any more than me or anyone else.
 
It would be a good idea if you stopped guessing and making erroneous statements.
 
Joe
 

Actually they do already and have for many years!
The embassy letters are foreign documents!
In cases where they demand more evidence foreign pension letters, statements showing income flowing into foreign accounts, and foreign rent leases may all and many more be typically considered. A pain in the butt to look at that stuff? Yeah. You betcha.

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