"Easy Ride" for pensioners in Thailand now over, says Pattaya Radio

[The manic]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

I will repeat this again

 

The British Embassy did not issue and Affidavit or provide any such service, what they offered was entirely different to the US CAN and AUS, this is a critical point - the UK is stating it can no longer meet the Thai Immigration requirements because they cannot guarantee the income of those people claiming, I would say there are a whole raft of income types aside from State Pension - the latter on its own would never meet the requirements anyway

Correct. State Pension Plus Private Pension plus rental income, plus dividends plus P2P income etcetc.  There are many such different income streams . I have considered using my tax return as proof of income

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, bwpage3 said:

It's Thailand. Don't make assumptions as anything logical is thrown out the window.

Yes and no.

We do know at least some facts about this.

The British embassy has announced they will stop doing income letters.

Thai immigration has always required income letters for income based applications.

Thai immigration has not announced that they will make exceptions for the income letter requirement and if so what conditions need to be met instead.

[notamember]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I pay an agent to deal with my (entirely legal) retirement visa extensions and 90 day reports - as I can't deal with the hastle.

just plain lazy then and breaking the law by doing so

[Russell17au]

The way I read all this is that it has nothing to do with Thai Immigration it is all about the British Embassy  not being able to verify the Brit ex-pats income so they will not issue any letter that verifies any Brits income. How do Brits prove their income to the Embassy to obtain this income letter? With Australia I can download my pension payment statements direct from my pension supplier. I can then supply that to the Australian Embassy with my Stat Dec. Is the British system that much different? Not Thai Immigration's problem.

Also it was suggested that emails be sent to the British Government Minister. I would go another step and cc: that same email to the Shadow Minister and to some of the media outlets, but make sure when you do the email just do the one email and use the cc: addresses as well.

[dick dasterdly]

43 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

No, everyone does NOT have a tax return. Never had one since I retired 6 years ago, nothing from DWP, no letters of confirmation, nowt.

You don't receive P60s (?) from the tax authorities?

[bwpage3]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

But the Brit. Embassy always required PROOF of income to accompany the application for the proof of income letter!  And of course, they charged for the service.

 

Would they really let down all the Brits. using the proof of income route, by refusing to issue the required certification in future??!

Do you really think the Embassy cares about Brits living in Thailand? If I remember correctly the British sold their embassy over on Wireless Road some time back and may be scaling back costs as Thailand plays limited to no importance to Britain. That is unlike the US, who still see's Thailand of strategic geographic importance in the event of a staging area for military action in Southeast Asia.

[malibukid]

3 hours ago, connda said:

Too bad our own governments don't reciprocate with quid pro quo for Thais living in our countries.  But - in our own countries, if the same system was implemented for Thais as applied to us here in Thailand - it would be called a human-rights abuse by the media and most of the so-called 'leaders' in government who would simply be shocked and abhorred.

 

Personally, the Thai government is simply shafting itself.  Each pensioner spends their pension in Thailand.  That amount is multiples of what an average Thai earns and spends each year.  So kicking out pensioners is basically cutting off their nose to spite their face.  But talking about face - there's the ugly, ugly face of xenophobia, nationalism, and racism that has gone 'over the top'.  This country truly hates outsiders even as they grovel for tourist money from we hated outsiders.  But those of us living here and dumping 500K to a million THB into the economy each year.  "Get Out!!!" 

 

The xenophobia in this country gets worse by the day.  That's pretty pathetic. 

a lot of Thai's will have to go home and work in the rice fields.

[bwpage3]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

But Thai Immigration require proof of income certification from the embassy.

 

So the only 'choice' is either 800k in bank, or find an agent that knows how to turn an entirely legitimate visa extension (via proof of income) - into a fraudulent act via 'money in bank'?!

Why would you find an agent when Big Joke is cracking down and just starting arresting VISA Agents?

 

I would stay clear of doing anything illegal.

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You don't receive P60s (?) from the tax authorities?

Nothing. Just my little payment every week.

[dick dasterdly]

44 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

15 pages and 217 posts and I've seen one where someone says they've actually tried to contact their Embassy about this.

 

Seriously - it is reported that your Embassy has announced a change and you all rush to ThaiVisa to ask questions, instead of your Embassy (or elected officials back home) ?

(Email addresses and contact info for the UK Embassy and UK government included at the bottom.)
 

The issue is, Thai Immigration has apparently told the Embassies that they will hold them legally liable for the Income Letters that they are notarizing. That means if all you <deleted> that are being less than truthful with your statements are found out, Thailand will basically be able to sue the respective Embassies for lying (or providing false documentation).

The UK Embassy has apparently stated that they do not have the ability to actually verify that what you tell them is true (about your pension income) so rather than open themselves up to a liability issue, they will stop issuing the Income Letters (after 12 Dec). And no, not everyone is getting all their pension income from a single, government source.
 

Note that the UK Embassy announcement notes that after 12 December you will have to verify your incoming using Thai bank statements. As you can imagine, what that probably means is that in order to use "pension income" for your Visa/Extension of Stay, you will have to show that you have the required amount(s) being deposited into a Thai Bank account on a regular basis (and probably also require other documentation like statements from your pension provider).
 

Meanwhile, it is up to you (UK citizens) to get a hold of your Embassy and let them know that you are upset about this. Instead of doing nothing and making banal statements about how they don't care about their citizens.

 

Send emails to your Member of Parliament as well. Better yet, find the Foreign Affairs Minister (or whatever you call it) and send your emails to that person. If you really think your Embassy/Ambassador doesn't give a crap about you, tell the FO and your MP. If they suddenly get a lot of negative traffic about how an Embassy/Ambassador is performing, they'd pretty much have to act or risk it becoming a PR issue that could affect the next election (and we all know how much every politician loves getting re-elected).

 

Funny fact. One email/letter they may dismiss. 5 about the same subject may make them take notice. 100 on the same subject will make them sit up, take notice and start making inquiries.

Why ? Because they use a formula to determine how many voters each letter/email represents. Years ago (before email), it was determined that a single letter was equal to maybe the opinion of 1,000 voters who all thought the same way but couldn't be bothered to write letters themselves.

Depending on the level of government and the topic, a single letter/email today could be considered the equivalent of maybe 5,000 or more opinions. If they suddenly got 100 emails about the same issue in a very short time, it would be the equivalent of maybe 500,000 people who have the same issue (including their friends and families, etc).

 

That is how special interest groups are often able to push their agendas to the forefront, even when it seems the majority opinion is against them. They are able to mobilize their supporters and get them to send in letters/emails (often even using the same generic "form" letter) and make it look like they have a lot more support than is actually the case.

 

(Like the old saying goes - the squeaky wheel gets the grease.)

Oh right - much easier to just sound off on ThaiVisa which will accomplish absolutely nothing. Hey - not my problem. I foresee lots of cheap accommodations up for sale come the new year.

 

UK Embassy in Thailand Email address: [email protected]
Foreign-Commonwealth Office contact: [email protected]
The UK Government contact page: https://www.gov.uk/contact/govuk

 

I've sent the Thailand email address 2 emails and only received the automated response referring me to their website.  Time to try the UK govt. contact page which, no doubt, will be as helpful....

[motaz]

17 hours ago, poanoi said:

but i had, the right amount of money etc,

but the officer just kept asking for additional proof until my visa was up and i had to leave country applying for another visa

What exactly happened?.I am going through the same thing now dealing with an officer who didn't like me.Now that you have experience with this situation, what would be your advice? Should I withdraw the application and try a different immigration office? .I have all my papers in order including 1.5 million in the bank for 1 year and I own a condo and I an 56 years old.

[bwpage3]

4 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Tomorrow  head  of  immigration will be  telling us its a misunderstanding and we are welcome here

With Big Joke in the news arresting 1700+ for VISA violations, that is not possible

[dick dasterdly]

46 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I have said several times that I called the Consulate in Bangkok three times yesterday, and I would like to think that it was at my suggestion they posted the big letter on TV this morning, and I also suggested they send out emails to everyone who applied for a letter last year informing them. Let's face it, not EVERYONE logs onto Thai Visa.

You 'phoned them and was able to talk to someone?  Genuine question.

[marqus12]

I have a Thai girl and a child with her... how difficult it will be to take her

to Vietnam with the kid... I'm fed up with this psychiatrist hospital . 

[wgdanson]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

You 'phoned them and was able to talk to someone?  Genuine question.

Yes, three different people in three different phone calls yesterday morning when I read about the s..t hitting the proverbial fan. One was a very well spoken lady, the next a very apologetic, quiet spoken bloke and thirdly what sounded like a Spanish lady, with whom I have spoken before, last year regarding my Income letter. All three were very courteous.

[Surasak]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

But they and really ANY embassy could easily verify claims made about government pensions. Government pensions generally can provide letters confirming benefits. They could even get a direct computer connection to verify that. Maybe add a charge. Other forms of income, yes that would be different and more problematical. But government pensions are likely the most common type of income reported by retired expats.

It is possible to get a confirmation of ALL income from the gov.uk tax website. I very much doubt the Immigration here would accept it.

[bwpage3]

4 hours ago, blackhorse said:

I actually agree. The ozzies did the same, scared the hell out of some and then said oops sorry we made a mistake

If I was brit I would start making plans for the future but be ready for a backflip on this

With Big Joke in the news being a hero for arresting over 1700+ expats for VISA infractions, I do not agree.

 

Looking at the amount of time, money and effort Big Joke has put into arresting that many with VISA infractions?

 

Now, with Big Joke in charge of Immigration, it can only get worse as he has access to all the VISA information via the arrival computer information.

 

The more Big Joke arrests, the more he keeps his name in the news.

 

I do not see a let up, but only more arrests publicizing things like the German's 19 year overstay.

 

 

[Suradit69]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

that was true when it came to misuse of tourist visa's to live here, education visa's, marriage visa's and now scrutiny of income. 

... and awhile ago regarding the need to season money in your bank account  ... because some people were shifting money from bank account to bank account just before someone went in to apply for an annual extension of stay.

 

Once upon a time Thai immigrations were pretty easy going but, as you say, the farang who keep gaming the system ( and often bragging about it on TV) are responsible for everything becoming more difficult for everyone else.

[bwpage3]

4 hours ago, bluesea said:

Like everything else in Thailand, it will blow over!! sensationalised by the media.

When was the last time Thailand had a Big Joke, that had arrested 1700+ expats on VISA infractions?

 

This is only going to get more momentum going forward.

 

Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister General Prawit Wongsuwan has told the Immigration Bureau to intensify its crackdown on foreigners without visas or overstaying visas and deport those arrested within one month.

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

The acid test is whether other embassies announce ending the letters. It was mentioned the U.S. letters have already added that the embassy accepts no responsibility for the accuracy of the information in the letter. If that continues to be accepted at immigration, then the Brits can backtrack and do the same. Or maybe they would still consider that too big a risk. 

 

Personally, I can suggest a solution that is similar to pretty much every other country that offers programs for retired expats. 

 

Make the income thing PENSION based.

 

Have people prove their pension one time, good for life.

 

Then income based people can use that proof for life. Sure it will usually be under 65K. Then use the combination method.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Jingthing

[wgdanson]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've sent the Thailand email address 2 emails and only received the automated response referring me to their website.  Time to try the UK govt. contact page which, no doubt, will be as helpful....

If you go onto the British Embassy Bangkok site, there is an email contact address, I forget exactly what it is but when I clicked and it opened my Mail, the email would not go through. I then noticed that their email address had upper case (capitals in old money) for three of the words, which I changed to little letters and off it went OK. I actually called the Consulate and told them about it. Then there is the dedicated email address to apply for your Income letter, [email protected] which is where I sent all my stuff earlier today. 

[bwpage3]

4 hours ago, mercman24 said:

its not a case of having the money, its a case of now having 20,000 english pounds in a Thai bank for 3 months, and we hear every week of skimmers, using cloned cards to nick money from unsuspecting people with the banks taking no responsibility for the losses. and everyone having to show 800,00 baht in the bank i dont trust a Thai bank as far as i can spit

Skimmers? Really? How many skimmers versus the hundreds of millions of bank transactions each month in Thailand?

 

If you didn't problem with money, you wouldn't even need to comment.

 

Money is as safe in a Thai bank as it is anywhere else.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

44 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

So, the fact that the British Embassy will not issue these letters and you say Thai Immigration has always required and that there is no announced change from Immigration, where does that,leave the Brits using this method in the past?

In my case, stressed and panicking!

 

Once again, life has delivered an unexpected, 'below the belt punch' ☹️.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, chrissables said:

The British embassy refusing to confirm income is causing the problem? If playing by the rules (which proof of income was) what's the issue?

The issue is the scammers who cause these knee jerks in the first place, as already said.

[bwpage3]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Well I guess the decision then is either use an agent or return to the UK to get your visa. Or quit.

Why would you risk using an agent when Big Joke is cracking down on agents and just arrested a big time agent for providing fraudulent services?

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Skimmers? Really? How many skimmers versus the hundreds of millions of bank transactions each month in Thailand?

 

If you didn't problem with money, you wouldn't even need to comment.

 

Money is as safe in a Thai bank as it is anywhere else.

 

 

It's much less likely at ATMs connected to large branches especially indoors at malls for example. Personally for my 800K baht account I only use such ATMs. 

[NCC1701A]

I just heard a loudspeaker on a truck that drove past my house in English say "Farang put 800,000 in Thai bank or face arrest!"

 

I'm not joking.

Edited October 9, 2018 by NCC1701A

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

y added that the embassy accepts no responsibility for the accuracy of the information in the letter. If that continues to be accepted at immigration, then the Brits can backtrack and do the same. Or maybe they would still consider that too big a risk. 

 

Personally, I can suggest a solution that is similar to pretty much every other country that offers programs for retired expats. 

 

Make the income thing PENSION based.

 

Have people prove their pension one time, good for life.

 

Then income based people can use that proof for life. Sure it will usually be under 65K. Then use the combination method.

 

When I sit down each year to prepare my backup income documentation and do the calculation for my Embassy income letter, I end up with about 10 different income sources:

 

a pension, a couple retirement savings accounts, a brokerage account, various CDs, various interest earning bank accounts.

 

My pension works out to be about one-third of the overall total. So I'm pretty satisfied doing the one income affidavit that covers it all.

 

[SheungWan]

Just now, bwpage3 said:

Why would you risk using an agent when Big Joke is cracking down on agents and just arrested a big time agent for providing fraudulent services?

Because the guys doing so neither want to put 800k on deposit in Thailand or fly to the UK to sort out a visa each year. So using an agent is worth the risk to them.

[lamyai3]

58 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

So, the fact that the British Embassy will not issue these letters and you say Thai Immigration has always required and that there is no announced change from Immigration, where does that,leave the Brits using this method in the past?

Up a certain creek, without a certain instrument.