new regulations for retirement visa for Americans?

[Tracyb]

I am a US citizen.  I renewed my extension of stay (retirement) in Chiang Mai in early September this year using an agent.  I was required to present the income affidavit from the US Consulate AND further verification of the income.  I had heard rumblings of this requirement about a month before I needed to  go for the renewal so I contacted my pension provider in the USA and asked them to mail to me at my CM address a statement of my monthly income.  When it arrived I used it as the verification that IMM required in addition to the affidavit.  I was careful to assure that the amount on the affidavit would be exactly the same as the amount shown  on the statement letter.  The letter also contained my CM address as the inside address on the letter.  I also sent along the actual envelope with postmarks with my paperwork.  Later, I went in to the IMM office, (then at Promenada), had my picture taken and my passport stamped with the ext. of stay.  

 

The US Embassy/Consulate affidavit contains a statement that notices everyone that the Embassy/Consulate does not certify that the states facts are accurate but that the citizen makes the statement under penalty of perjury.  

[Suradit69]

On 10/9/2018 at 8:18 PM, KhunBENQ said:

Sounds easy.

And immigration will be able to verify proof of income from dozens of different countries in misc languages?

Yes, I have the documentation to prove income, but explaining what it all means to an immigration officer and having him/her calculate what it all amounts to on a monthly basis would be a real interesting experience for all concerned. 

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, PETDCAT said:

The American consulate still issues the income letter and it is needed to get visa. What has changed is that proof of income is required by Chiang Mai immigration. I just did my extension last week and this was my experience. 

If you're at immigrations, you're not getting a visa and you're not extending your visa. You're getting an extension of your permission to stay. And no, it's not a pedantic exercise in semantics.

[Thaidream]

Was at Chaengwattana IM yesterday to do a 90 day report-  there was no notice of anything changing- saw a few people doing their retirement and marriage extension- embassy income letter- no one talked about any changes.  I saw no notices posted that the Immigration Act was changing or the Police Order.

 

Later read TV- regarding proof of income- looked at the US Embassy Website- no notices- same system.

 

-The US Embassy has never indicated on any of it affidavits to include income that they guarantee that the information is correct- They are notarizing your signature and you attest under penalty of perjury that your statement is correct.  

 

-I have sworn to affidavits  to be used for the IRS; US Social Security; Private Pension verification of identity and letters of child support.  All were accepted  and every Government agency and/or private entity knows the US Embassy does not verify the contents of the affidavit but verifies your identity- and swears the Oath.(This is the same for any Notarization done anywhere in the US or Overseas) should a person lie under oath- the penalty is  felony under US Federal Law.

 

- I have been aware for a long time that Thai Immigration Offices can ask applicant to present other documentation to prove income- such as a  foreign bank statement; Pension Letters etc.  Years ago while doing an extension at Thai IM at the old Suan Plu location- I was asked for the backup which I have always carried.

 

I would seriously doubt that the US Embassy would not provide Notarial Service as some of the Vice Consuls are legally authorized as Notary Publics under Us Law and the income letter is simply an affidavit that one is declaring their income and attesting to it. However, I would always carry bck up proof of the income affidavit as it appears CM is asking for the backup and other offices may follow.

[Pib]

On 10/10/2018 at 8:00 AM, mtls2005 said:

 

So it's OK to just leave this 800,000 in an account here throughout the year, and not show any subsequent withdrawals & deposits? Does Immigration require any additional details on the source(s) of the money you use to live on during the year? Will this lead them to suspect you may be working here illegally?

 

Do you get your letter from Bangkok Bank verifying your account on the day of your application? Can you do that at the BBL branch within Chaeng Watthana? And do you make some small deposit to show that the bank book has been updated around the time of your application?

 

FWIW, I successfully renewed my annual extension of stay based on retirement on 25 Sep 2018 at Chaeng Watthana using the U.S. Embassy Affidavit of Income. I did have supporting documentation - 2017 Tax documents - which accurately supported the stated monthly income figure, but these were not asked for. Oddly, this year I had to hand-draw a map of my residence - I did have a Google Maps printout and Streetview and photo - but the IO asked me to draw the map, which was a first.

 

I've been in Thailand for 10 years now....done 9 retirement extensions of stay here in Bangkok/Cheang Wattana.  My first extension I used the U.S. Embassy income letter method...no additional source of income proof required by Bangkok immigration.  After that first extension using the embassy income letter, getting more settled to living in Thailand, not enjoying the trek to the U.S. embassy and $50 cost to get the letter, wanting to have a BIG chunk of money in Thailand for emergency purposes,  and a variety of other reasons, I decided to put a little over Bt800K in a Thai bank account so I could also use that money for my annual extension of stay vs the embassy income letter.   Yes, this automatically means I must submit an FBAR each year, but I'm fine with that and always report any interest/dividends I earn anywhere in the world on my federal tax return. Perfectly comfortable with over Bt800K in a Thai bank account, but that's just me.

 

For quite a few years I kept that Bt800K in a Bangkok Bank "fixed" savings account based on whatever the best fixed promotional rate was.  But the problem with a "fixed" savings account is although you can still withdraw the money at any time if you do withdraw money before the fixed account matures you lose all or most of the interested earned.  Plus there is the Thai tax 15% withholding tax on "any" amount of interest earned on a fixed account....earn Bt1,000 gross interest and Bt150 is withheld/sent to the Thai govt....earn Bt20,000 gross interest and Bt3,000 is withheld/sent to the Thai govt, etc.  Now you can get all or most of this withholding tax refund but you must file a Thai tax return or refund request with the govt which I did for around a half dozen years.  Always got the tax fully refunded through this process but really didn't look forward to filing for the refund every year.    Use of that Bangkok Bank fixed savings account with no additional deposits or withdrawals occurring other than interest and tax withholding transactions worked fine for my annual extension....no need to show money income/transfers flowing into that account throughout the year...for any period of time. Bangkok immigration never asked for any additional income proof.  All that was needed was the bank letter (costs Bt100 to get from the bank....takes about 15-30 minutes to get it) and copy of passbook to be filled with your extension application.  I always got the bank letter same day as the bank branch was located in the Bangkok immigration building and the bank letter was so easy to get.  As mentioned I was using Bangkok Bank for these fixed accounts and no deposit or withdrawal on the day of the bank letter issuance was needed as Bangkok Bank could force an passbook update to reflect current balance with today's date.

 

Ok, I got tired of doing the annual Thai tax return/refund request and "Krungsri Bank" came out with a savings account called the Mee Taie Dai (MTD) that paid almost the same high interest as a fixed saving account, no tax withholding until total annual interest earned exceeds Bt20K (right now the MTD interest of 1.3% earns around Bt10.4K interest on a Bt800K amount), can withdraw or deposit at any time without any interest penalty, can withdrawal twice a month with no fee but the 3rd and up per month withdrawal incurs a Bt50 fee, account comes with a Visa debit card, comes with ibanking/mbanking, etc.  Basically a regular Thai savings account but pays around 3 times the interest of a regular Thai savings account.   Use of that Krungsri MTD savings account with no additional deposits or withdrawals occurring during the year other than monthly interest payments works fine for my annual extension.  No need to show money income/transfers flowing into that account throughout the year.  Been using the Krungsri MTD account for 3 years now.  Bangkok immigration never asked for any additional income proof.  All that was needed was the bank letter (costs Bt100 to get from the bank....takes about 15-30 minutes to get it) and copy of passbook to be filled with your extension application.  Now with Krungsri Bank apparently they can not do a forced update like Bangkok Bank could to cause the current balance to reflect as today's date in the passbook, but to make that happen you have to deposit or withdraw Bt100 on the bank letter date for the balance to reflect today's date in the passbook.  When I walk up to the bank counter to get the letter, they always mention the Bt100 deposit/withdrawal thing on the day of the bank letter...I make a Bt100 deposit (or I could have withdrawn Bt100) and then they proceed with making the bank letter.

 

Summary: using the Bt800K in the bank method for my annual extension of stay Bangkok immigration has never asked me for any additional source of income proof.   They see the Bt800K in the Thai bank for at least 3 months, little or no activity in terms of reoccurring deposits/withdrawals over the last year shown on the passbook, etc., and they are fine with this....they are simply looking for at least Bt800K in the account for at least the last 3 months.   Your results may vary.

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Pib

[ToddinChonburi]

So this was a source connected to where that gave you information about what.

 

[KhunBENQ]

39 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes, I have the documentation to prove income, but explaining what it all means to an immigration officer and having him/her calculate what it all amounts to on a monthly basis would be a real interesting experience for all concerned. 

Exactly what I wanted to say.

Until now it's about USA and UK only.

All in English.

But what would happen if the problem extends to other nationals?

[flexomike]

5 hours ago, PETDCAT said:

The American consulate still issues the income letter and it is needed to get visa. What has changed is that proof of income is required by Chiang Mai immigration. I just did my extension last week and this was my experience. 

what did they accept as proof of income

[Media1]

On 10/9/2018 at 7:42 PM, JWNZ said:

I believe so, as more than a handful were getting around the required income/savings criteria by producing an affidavit to verify income, that never actually existed, or fell short...………...

Rubbish if they issue a certified document immigration must accept it

[Thaidream]

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Posted just now

  41 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes, I have the documentation to prove income, but explaining what it all means to an immigration officer and having him/her calculate what it all amounts to on a monthly basis would be a real interesting experience for all concerned. 

Exactly what I wanted to say.

Until now it's about USA and UK only.

All in English.

But what would happen if the problem extends to other nationals?

 

Translation to Englis or Thai by a certified translation service- Another step but easily sorted.

[Media1]

On 10/9/2018 at 8:57 PM, nwh said:

No way.

 

Not there issue it's the country of issue. This is all crap. Effects only the UK and US. My embassy assured me of this already 

[Jingjock]

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 8:19 PM, ubonjoe said:

Absolutely false info.

Immigration has changed nothing,

UK and America have ceased giving statuary declorations supporting retirement income for visas here

[flexomike]

Just now, Jingjock said:

UK and America have ceased giving statuary declorations supporting retirement income for visas here

Show us the source of US is no longer issuing Income declarations

[Jingjock]

1 minute ago, flexomike said:

2 minutes ago, Jingjock said:

 

Show us the source of US is no longer issuing Income declarations

The UK have made a statement today, also saying that they have spoken to the US embassy and are following the same lines

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Jingjock said:

The UK have made a statement today, also saying that they have spoken to the US embassy and are following the same lines

There is no evidence of the US embassy doing the same as the UK. 

What the UK embassy said was their opinion not a fact.

[Jingjock]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no evidence of the US embassy doing the same as the UK. 

What the UK embassy said was their opinion not a fact.

Fw: BREAKING: British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[Jingjock]

Just now, Jingjock said:

say that US nationals will also be affected

That is a clear statement, not a guess

[Media1]

1 minute ago, Jingjock said:

Fw: BREAKING: British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

False news they should be fired

[Will27]

2 minutes ago, Jingjock said:

Fw: BREAKING: British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

That's not fact.

 

That's just their opinion like ubonjoe has said.

[nwh]

4 minutes ago, Jingjock said:

UK and America have ceased giving statuary declorations supporting retirement income for visas here

 

WHy would they follow UK anyway? NZ OK. noe changes. We no longer UK colony.

 

[Max66]

Just spoke to visa agency in CM a moment ago. They said that CM imm. requires proof other than affadavit for Americans. As of now not in Bangkok ....yet

[stevenl]

35 minutes ago, Media1 said:

Rubbish if they issue a certified document immigration must accept it

But they can and sometimes do require proof that the applicant is actually using money to live here, so Thai bank book with withdrawals, bank transfers, etc.

[nwh]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no evidence of the US embassy doing the same as the UK. 

What the UK embassy said was their opinion not a fact.

Thx

[johnjohn2]

I emailed the embassy in BKk. Got the generic reply back but notice the last sentence. 

Thank you for your email. The US Embassy’s current income affidavit policies can be found on our website:https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/. We are currently evaluating options regarding the future provision of this document.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by johnjohn2
Using mobile phone

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Max66 said:

Just spoke to visa agency in CM a moment ago. They said that CM imm. requires proof other than affadavit for Americans. As of now not in Bangkok ....yet

Yes, there has been noise about that for some time now. But the U.S. still provides the letters, immigration still accepts the letters, but you need to be prepared to show some EVIDENCE that what you claim in the letter is true. Personally, I have no problem with that at all. I realize many people will and not all of them are because of fraud. Some kinds of more complex income can be hard to show evidence about that will be easily understandable to a busy officer.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Jingjock said:

UK and America have ceased giving statuary declorations supporting retirement income for visas here

Incorrect for both. UK has announced they will stop LATER. US has announced nothing about any change on the matter. Please stop spreading false information. 

[fforest1]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Incorrect for both. UK has announced they will stop LATER. US has announced nothing about any change on the matter. Please stop spreading false information. 

Some people are board and got nothing better to do than spread false info...

Its a field day for trolls...

Edited October 11, 2018 by fforest1

[Vacuum]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

there is the Thai tax 15% withholding tax on "any" amount of interest earned on a fixed account.

 

Correct, but you can/will get it back the next year.

[The Theory]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:20 PM, gk10002000 said:

Why not put 800k baht in a thai bank you ask:  Some reasons: 

1: that now requires one to report the over $10k in a foreign account to the US.  Some people don't like telling the government any more than necessary

2:  that ~ 25,000 USD can remain invested safely in the USA earning dividends or interest

3:  Some people prefer not to have large amounts of money in a foreign country where transferring money in and out may be a problem

4:  Even if you park the 800k baht in a Thai bank, one presumably is still transferring or carrying in funds in to Thailand to live on.  I don't like dead money just sitting

1.5% , 12 month or 1.25% , 6 month is still better than many US banks rates. 

For $25,000. 

$25,000 is not a “large amount” anymore in US !!! Perhaps 20 years ago it was. It may be in Thailand. 

Large amount ? Let’s talk about over $100,000.

Edited October 11, 2018 by The Theory

[Suradit69]

45 minutes ago, The Theory said:

$25,000 is not a “large amount” anymore in US !!! Perhaps 20 years ago it was. I

For someone who retired 10, 15 or 20 years ago and living on an adequate income ( adequate to meet the monthly income required by Thai immigrations) having to suddenly pony up $25,000  to meet the money-in-the-bank method because of problems proving monthly income to immigrations ... that would/could be a large amount.  

 

Not all legitimate retirement income is easily proven by handing over a single pension document.

 

It might be easier for some to put Baht 200,000 to Baht 300,000 in one's Thai bank and show definitive proof of income sufficient to meet the "combination" method.

 

I wonder what the math is on the combination method??  Is it 800,000 minus money in the bank divided by 12?

 

If you have Baht 200,000 in a Thai bank,for example, would that mean you only needed to prove monthly income of 600,000 divided by 12 = Baht 50,000 a month??