BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

30 minutes ago, Leatherneck said:

Asked the question today at the Chiang Mai Consulate about the rumors floating around that the income certificates may be discontinued. Response was that the Consulate had heard the same rumors and that US officials were in discussions with Thai immigration officials and no decision had been reached one way or another. I was told to stay tuned and a notification would be made if any change was made. Like I said earlier..."a government bureaucratic answer".????

 

That's about what I would have expected to hear and to be the case.  However, it also tends to suggest that the status between the USE and Thai Immigration is not resolved as yet. Thanks for asking and posting it.

 

I think it's premature at this point to assume that nothing is afoot with the U.S. Embassy and their letters. Time will tell.

 

Meanwhile, since IsaanJohn and I received notably different email responses from the same ACS Unit at the U.S. BKK Embassy, I sent them a follow up email this morning pointing out the significant difference between the two different replies they sent to us, and asking them which version is really their intended response.

 

So, I expect, they'll reply to that followup email relatively quickly.  Let's see if they double down on the final sentence that IsaanJohn received, which was not part of the reply they sent me, about "no plans' to stop the income affidavits for the foreseeable future.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[crazykopite]

22 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

It's not, it's currently B2400 and the postage is so little it makes no difference!

I said it was 3 years ago even so 2,400 baht at lets say 42 to the £ is £57.14 that’s a lot more than $50

[EricTh]

55 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

   Military pensions are different.  

   Almost no two people get exactly the same pension.  I used google and cut/pasted it in a previous post.  Here is the info from investopedia:

"The maximum monthly Social Security benefit payment for a person retiring in 2018 at full retirement age is $2,788. However, the maximum allowable benefit amount is only payable to those who had the maximum taxable earnings for at least 35 working years."

 

Wow. It seems that getting $2000 monthly pension is near the maximum. 

 

Not many will get that much so many not qualify to live in Thailand and the Thai baht is getting stronger ...

[flipside555]

The key issue is that British Embassy has been told that it must verify the source of the funds. It can't do that so, it will no longer provide the letter. 

 

It's difficult to believe that only the British Embassy would be required to verify,  so something must change. Either the British Embassy will be told that it does not  have to verify, or all other embassies will be told that they do have to verify.

 

If all other embassies are told that they do have to verify, then it's very likely that they will also stop issuing the letters.

[Just Weird]

For those Thaivisa posters who demonstrate so often that they cannot read, this development is nothing to do with the Embassy refusing to provide a service any longer, it is Thailand's Immigration asking the Embassy to do something that is impossible for them to do, something that the Embassy has never done before! 

 

The British Embassy has never confirmed or guaranteed that any incomes shown by British citizens are genuine.  Read your previous income letters if you don't believe me.   How can the Embassy provide a service that they cannot fulfill?

[crazykopite]

26 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Mrs May did not freeze UK pensions abroad!

Every U.K. Government past or present can revert the decision if they so wish to announce that expats will no longer have their Old age pensions frozen because they have chosen to live in certain country. Mrs May who is the current PM could make this change with the stroke of a pen , she like other PMs before her chooses not to ????

[Just Weird]

19 hours ago, DPKANKAN said:

No it is not. It is 2300 + 100 baht if you have it posted. I have done it for the last 3 years and go and collect it! The letter has a caveat in it anyway basically that exonerates them, merely confirming the information they have been provided with!!

"It is 2300 + 100 baht if you have it posted. I have done it for the last 3 years and go and collect it!"

 

Wow, how do you do that when that is not an option, special dispensation from the Embassy for just you to collect your letter?

[boonrawdcnx]

I actually think the 20 year visa represents good value for THB1m given the current climate and depending on your circumstances. 
 
The only misgivings I have are they might pull the rug from under you after you have forked out for it and 20 years is a long time, you might not live long enough to get value out of it. They could scrap it at any time too, and fob you off on another lesser visa. 
 
Works out at 50k THB per year I think it is worth it if you are not doing the working/retirement/marriage route already.

I think if over 50 the retirement extension works out somehow better - costs you maybe 50.000 baht in yearly extensions done by yourself in 20 years and your 800.000 in a fixed deposit account at currently 1.5 % would give You almost 1,000,000 baht after 20 years but very likely more than this since interest rates will not stay that low forever.

And you can leave whenever you like as well - with the money in your pocket - you don’t get your money back if you should decide to leave on the 20 year “elite” visa option.



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[White Tiger]

15 hours ago, Russell17au said:

The Truth:

I opened a savings account with the Bangkok Bank on the 28/5/2018 without a work permit and I have also opened a savings account with the Kasikorn Bank on the 22/8/2018 without a work permit. I am 73 years old and the only reason I opened the Kasikorn Bank account is because of the Union Pay Debit card. My Australian Government pension goes direct into the Bangkok Bank account.

And do you live up country? Certainly demonstrates that different banks/branches have their own requirements - thanks - you managed it without a work permit. I did that also (twice, for my 2 separate accounts with different Thai banks), my accounts were opened about 9 or 10 years ago so maybe the requirements were different then, I can't recall. For one of my banks I have to travel 20km to the branch, for the other 45km for the branch - no one closer to home would let me open one, even back then. But my mate can't get one close to his home village & has been unable to get one for a few years - perhaps if he travelled to Pattaya it would be easier for him? 

Edited October 11, 2018 by White Tiger

[EVENKEEL]

57 minutes ago, davidcrookes said:

Can anyone advise how many months would be acceptable to qualify the 65000k monthly income option ( 3 or has to be a full 12 months prior to retirement visa application).

Thanks

I've asked this same question twice now with no legit answer in sight, hopefully they will listen to you.

[Just Weird]

19 hours ago, amse said:

Nothing like working hard all your life to have a nice retirement income which would satisfy Thai immigration for a retirement visa, then your home country stabs you in the back and refuses to verify what is rightfully yours. Just another way to try to keep you in your home country and destroy your dream of Paradise.

Nothing like not reading and not understanding what is happening!  The British Embassy has never verified any citizen's income for Immigration purposes, it cannot, there's no back stabbing going on.

 

If I am wrong doubtless you, or someone else, will post a copy of an Embassy letter that does verify an income.

[Orac]

I've asked this same question twice now with no legit answer in sight, hopefully they will listen to you.

Simple answer is nobody can answer this since Thai Immigration have not said it is possible yet without embassy letter - only U.K. Embassy have suggested it might be an option in the future with no corroboration from Thai Imm or details.


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[Just Weird]

17 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

Every U.K. Government past or present can revert the decision if they so wish to announce that expats will no longer have their Old age pensions frozen because they have chosen to live in certain country. Mrs May who is the current PM could make this change with the stroke of a pen , she like other PMs before her chooses not to ????

I know.  I also know that, as I posted, Mrs May did not freeze any expat pensions.

[flipside555]

1 hour ago, davidcrookes said:

Can anyone advise how many months would be acceptable to qualify the 65000k monthly income option ( 3 or has to be a full 12 months prior to retirement visa application).

Thanks

It depends where you're from. If you're American, you just have to give them a letter stating that you have the income. They will give you an affidavit stating that you claim to have the income. If you're British, you can no longer get a letter. If you're of a different nationality, check with your embassy.

[Kadilo]

6 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I've asked this same question twice now with no legit answer in sight, hopefully they will listen to you.

At this moment no one can answer because there isn’t a system in place going forwards post December 12th to issue Income Statements. Hence the monthly income option will not be a viable one unless something changes. 

That is my current understanding. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

42 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Meanwhile, since IsaanJohn and I received notably different email responses from the same ACS Unit at the U.S. BKK Embassy, I sent them a follow up email this morning pointing out the significant difference between the two different replies they sent to us, and asking them which version is really their intended response.

 

So, I expect, they'll reply to that followup email relatively quickly.  Let's see if they double down on the final sentence that IsaanJohn received, which was not part of the reply they sent me, about "no plans' to stop the income affidavits for the foreseeable future.

 

 

OK. Now this is getting weird. As I indicated above, I followed up to U.S. ACS with another email about about the discrepancy between the email screen cap that IsaanJohn posted, and the somewhat different one from ACS that I received and posted earlier today.  The key difference being his included a sentence about "no plan" to discontinue the letters, and the ACS response to me had no such sentence.

 

So now here's the followup response I received from ACS just now, referring to IsaanJohn's clip:

 

 

So, according to the ACS person writing to me, they're declining to include the comment about "no plans" to discontinue issuing the income affidavits, and only saying they're "evaluating options" for the future.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jimn]

1 minute ago, Orac said:

 

Simple answer is nobody can answer this since Thai Immigration have not said it is possible yet without embassy letter - only U.K. Embassy have suggested it might be an option in the future with no corroboration from Thai Imm or details.


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Agreed its all speculation. As is the BE comment that proof of income of 65,000 thb into a Thai Bank account will be accepted, as it has always been ???

Another interesting point is that the official Thai requirements are 800,000 thb in a Thai Bank account or proof of income of 65,000 thb. Nowhere does it say this has to be into a Thai Bank account. So one can assume that if you can show this amount in £££££ from your pension provider being paid into your UK account that this will be accepted as proof of income???? Again no one knows

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, jimn said:

Agreed its all speculation. As is the BE comment that proof of income of 65,000 thb into a Thai Bank account will be accepted, as it has always been ???

Another interesting point is that the official Thai requirements are 800,000 thb in a Thai Bank account or proof of income of 65,000 thb. Nowhere does it say this has to be into a Thai Bank account. So one can assume that if you can show this amount in £££££ from your pension provider being paid into your UK account that this will be accepted as proof of income???? Again no one knows

Under current Thai immigration policies NEITHER deposits into a Thai bank OR into your home country bank will suffice for an income based application without an embassy income letter.

I've never read even ONE REPORT over over a DECADE of that ever being accepted.

They may change the policy. But not now. Not yet.

The British embassy does NOT make Thai immigration policy.

You are right there is nothing in the Thai immigration rules requiring full import of claimed income into Thai banks. 

At this point in time, the only fully safe option is the 800K in the bank method, seasoned. At least for Brits.

But Brits can still get letters now and they are good for SIX MONTHS.

[granuaile]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Sounds good to me (and would be to people making legitimate claims on their letters). My income will be just social security deposited in the U.S. No interest in doing monthly transfers into Thailand. It would no problem showing prints of statements and also a letter from social security. I realize many people's income streams are much more complex, and sometimes questionable.  There are rumors monthly imports will be required for income based applications and I don't see evidence that is the case. It makes more sense to me to import funds as needed and in larger chunks much less often than monthly so a monthly import requirement is not something I would ever do unless strictly required. 

Works for me too I think. I get a deposit statement from my state retirement system in January and July every year as well as a statement from Social Security for the amount I will receive from them. As long as those are accepted I should be OK. You can print an "official" letter from your My Social Security account, but not sure how acceptable that would be. I'm leaving Thailand for 3 months anyway to spend holidays with family but getting the affidavit before I leave just to be safe since my extension expires soon after. 

Ironically, I was already planning to leave Thailand to move back home, for personal and family reasons, but was (and still am a bit) afraid I'd just have a few weeks to give my things here away and sort through 9 years of "stuff" for gifting. dumping, and taking home after I get back to Thailand. I had thought maybe to return in a few years but that may be less viable, will deal with it then.

Also, thanks for your posts here, keeping people aware - aware that this is not a change in Thai rules but simply an action by one and maybe other embassies. Always good to see level-headed posts that avoid insults, bashing, and untruths.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Under current Thai immigration policies NEITHER deposits into a Thai bank OR into your home country bank will suffice for an income based application without an embassy income letter.

I've never read even ONE REPORT over over a DECADE of that ever being accepted.

They may change the policy. But not now. Not yet.

The British embassy does NOT make Thai immigration policy.

You are right there is nothing in the Thai immigration rules requiring full import of claimed income into Thai banks. 

At this point in time, the only fully safe option is the 800K in the bank method, seasoned. At least for Brits.

But Brits can still get letters now and they are good for SIX MONTHS.

 

And meanwhile, we're waiting to hear from Thai Immigration and the Big Joke as to whether anything like what the British Embassy suggested re Thai bank deposits for the income method is even possible.

 

As you correctly noted, Thai Immigration has NEVER allowed Thai bank deposits in the past as a method for proving monthly income. They've only and always insisted on Embassy income letters.

 

Which, absent some policy change announcement from Thai Immigration, leaves the Brits in a bit of a bind.

[Cricky]

58 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

For those Thaivisa posters who demonstrate so often that they cannot read, this development is nothing to do with the Embassy refusing to provide a service any longer, it is Thailand's Immigration asking the Embassy to do something that is impossible for them to do, something that the Embassy has never done before! 

 

The British Embassy has never confirmed or guaranteed that any incomes shown by British citizens are genuine.  Read your previous income letters if you don't believe me.   How can the Embassy provide a service that they cannot fulfill?

You'll find this great information will not sink in, the blame will continue sadly. 

[Issanjohn]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Interesting..   I too sent an email yesterday to the U.S. Embassy ACS unit yesterday, and got an email response back from them this morning. And it is similar to the one you posted above, EXCEPT, the answer ACS sent me does NOT have the final sentence about "no plans to stop the service."  And oddly, it looks like our two responses were signed by the same person, being "AB".

 

If other responses from the U.S. are forthcoming, it will be interesting to see if they come in the flavor you received, which is more definite, or the flavor I received, which is more ominous. Seems like both the British and the U.S. Embassy folks have some work to do on handling their public communications.

 

Because I asked for specific information and I just replied to there email and I asked for even more specifics and here’s the reply I received just now.  You have to be assertive about exactly what you want to know that’s why my email is different and here’s more information:  Read for yourself:  

[Issanjohn]

I just replied to their original email and I asked for more specific information and here’s the reply I received just now.  You have to be assertive about exactly what you want to know that’s why my email is specific and here’s more information:  Read for yourself:  This is EXTREMELY GOOD NEWS if you are a United States Citizen.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

Because I asked for specific information and I just replied to there email and I asked for even more specifics and here’s the reply I received just now.  You have to be assertive about exactly what you want to know that’s why my email is different and here’s more information:  Read for yourself:  

 

It looks like two different people are answering our emails from ACS, because obviously the person writing to you is NOT the same one who is writing to me...  The opening sentence below refers to the email clip that you previously posted here from ACS.

 

[Issanjohn]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It looks like two different people are answering our emails from ACS, because obviously the person writing to you is NOT the same one who is writing to me...  The opening sentence below refers to the email clip that you previously posted here from ACS.

 

All I can tell you is that this is the email I received from the United States Embassy.  

[usacb500biker]

One day a Thai poor, poor bank employee will figure out how to steal 10-20 million of UK and US retirement Funds So they can Retire !!!! Ha Ha...I"am 75 who will insure ME....Next move Jump on my new 500cc Honda and Ride into the Sunset...  ?????   Where Too  ??????...

[richiejom]

10 minutes ago, VYCM said:

You'll find this great information will not sink in, the blame will continue sadly. 

The fact that this letter covers them legally can be used as an argument against them anyway as the Thai Immigration did not say the letters would not be accepted

 

All we have heard is that the BE decided they aren't going to bother with them anymore.... not mention of the likelyhood of Thai immigration taking legal action... what is the likelyhood of that anyway?   The Thai immigration would have to verify our income is not genuine to even begin to take action against the BE

[NCC1701A]

how about some UK expats asking the Thai government permission to hold a small protest outside the UK embassy in Bangkok. 

 

When they ask what for, you can tell them hundreds of thousands of UK expats have to leave Thailand and you are angry.  

[Issanjohn]

2 hours ago, flipside555 said:

 

Thai immigration told  the British Embassy that it must now verify the income of individuals requesting an income letter. The British embassy is saying that it cannot do that.

 

 

The American Embassy says exactly the same thing. It assumes "no responsibility for the truth or falsity of the representations" i.e. it cannot verify the sources of income.

 

 

 

Yes and the British government is refusing to do their job.  The Thai government has always expected that and if immigration is starting to strictly enforce it then they need to do their job, cooperate with immigration, AND ACTUALLY VERIFY THE INCOME AND CONTINUE TO PROVIDE THE PROOF OF INCOME VERIFICATION!!!  Because it’s BS the British Embassy saying that they can’t verify your income because yes they can they just have to require people to bring in their documents proving their income it’s as simple as that but instead the British Embassy is being lazy.  I’ve actually always wondered why they give us the income verification letter without having to show proof in the past.  According to the United States Embassy they don’t need proof since you are swearing on an official government document that you receive the income and in the United States it’s a felony crime to lie on a notarized government document.  

 

So I don’t know what is wrong with the British Embassy but this is absolutely NOT immigrations fault the British Embassy is refusing to cooperate with immigration and that’s a pretty obvious fact.  I just also spoke to my visa agent and NONE OF the other embassies are stopping this service IT IS ONLY THE BRITISH EMBASSY...

[Jingthing]

Just now, NCC1701A said:

how about some UK expats asking the Thai government permission to hold a small protest outside the UK embassy in Bangkok. 

 

When they ask what for, you can tell them hundreds of thousands of UK expats have to leave Thailand and you are angry.  

I wouldn't even ask for that. Thai law about foreigners protesting here is very clear.