BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, blackhorse said:

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 
And that's exactly the same process/method that applies for the U.S. citizens and their Embassy.
 

Which makes you wonder why the brits didn't adopt this simple work around instead of throwing their citizens under the bus

 

That question has been asked, to the winds, about a dozen times here...

 

That method seemingly would work... UNLESS, Thai Immigration is also beefing about the U.S. version of the affidavits. And on that point, there's still some uncertainty.

 

The UK version is written by Embassy staff, and they ask for some documentation prior to writing it.

 

The U.S. version is written by the citizen applicant, and certified by the Embassy only on the basis of a legal declaration.

 

So which version, if either, is going to be satisfactory to all??? 

 

[imaderbyfan]

8 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

38 minutes ago, imaderbyfan said:

Ask yourself this then....
Do the American, Aussie embassies currently show proof, or do they just accept under affirmation, what their customers tell them?

Oz does but it's different. It's a statutory deceleration and a legal document. The embassy only verifies the signature after the person has written it. The embassy is not held liable in anyway using that method it falls back on writer.

Yes I totally get it......

But could the person not tell lies to obtain that legal document?

I know its an offence, but come on , you know as well as I do some folk dont give a rats ass about something like that

[flipside555]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The UK version appears to be ONLY signed by the U.K. Embassy staff.

 

The U.S. version is signed first by the citizen applicant, and then certified/signed by the Embassy staff confirming the person's identity.

But what's important is the embassy stamp. This is a communication between the embassy and Thai Immigration. Immigration is asking the embassy for information about one its citizens.  The embassy is providing that information and stamping (i.e. signing it).  

 

Whether or not the document that the embassy sends to Thai Immigration also includes the citizen's signature is not really important.  Thai immigration have their own forms which the citizen will have to sign.

[flipside555]

12 minutes ago, imaderbyfan said:

The issue of supporting documentation that you wish to leave aside, I would suggest makes the Brit letter a surer indicator of the applicants income.

That's the crux. What exactly do Thai Immigration require? 

 

• A letter from you stating that you have the required income.
• A letter from you and some supporting documentation.
• A letter from you, some supporting documentation, and verification of the documentation.

[blackhorse]

Yes I totally get it......

But could the person not tell lies to obtain that legal document?

I know its an offence, but come on , you know as well as I do some folk dont give a rats ass about something like that

Absolutely. Oz pension with current exchange is 40 k well below the 65 k.

 

But it's the structure of the legal document that removes all responsibility from the embassy.

 

As somebody already mentioned you could pledge your alliance to the almighty chicken [emoji215] God and as long as you pay 2k and its your signature then they will rubber stamp it without needing to see the chicken

 

[soalbundy]

39 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

41 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 
And that's exactly the same process/method that applies for the U.S. citizens and their Embassy.
 

Which makes you wonder why the brits didn't adopt this simple work around instead of throwing their citizens under the bus

It's so much more fun.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Interest rates published today on Bank of America's website.

 

Not really worth leaving money in a US bank when Thai Banks give a higher interest rate.

 

Source :

https://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/checking/interest-checking-account/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you look in the garbage can, not surprisingly, you're going to find garbage.... e.g., Bank of America.

 

I'm getting 2 - 4% on my U.S. FDIC insured checking accounts right now. And U.S. CD rates for terms of 5 years or so are often above 3% right now, and heading higher.

 

Thai rates are nowhere close to those. But, you do have to have enough knowledge to NOT look to BofA for competitive interest rates.

 

But your post is also kind of off-topic, so it's probably a better discussion to be had in another thread.

 

 

 

[sambum]

On 10/10/2018 at 3:15 PM, poohy said:

Thanks oh Great British embassy for throwing us under the bus!

the fact you have known since May does in no way help you!

 

complete and utter wasters 

Yes indeed! What about the people who have been using the proof of income letter for years and whose extension of visa is due in the next 2 or 3 months? How are they supposed to suddenly find 800,000 baht to deposit in a Thai bank account, and how can it be in there for 3 months if their extension is due in 2 months? Nice of them to give as much notice as they possibly could to people when they have known since MAY!!!

[Wanderlust]

So to sum up the 48 pages so far, the British Embassy will no longer provide a letter to immigration after 12th December because they are unable to fulfill the verification of a person's income that Thai Immigration has requested. A reasonable assumption is that this is a request that has been made to all countries embassies and consulates. It is apparent that several other countries do not verify the applicants income either. The logical conclusion to this is that either immigration will begin to require more documentation and dispense with the need for an embassy letter, or they will simply refuse to accept applications without an embassy letter; if it is the former, I would expect to see more embassies ending the letter service, but if the latter then everything will carry on as before except for the Brits, who will only have the lump sum method available to them, either genuinely or through an agent (if they don't stop that procedure). My gut feeling is that it will be the former, and my hope is that they will alter the documentation you can provide to allow things like foreign or Thai bank statements, or letters from tax authorities, pension providers, banks etc as sufficient to prove income to immigration.

[sambum]

1 hour ago, blackhorse said:

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 
And that's exactly the same process/method that applies for the U.S. citizens and their Embassy.
 

Which makes you wonder why the brits didn't adopt this simple work around instead of throwing their citizens under the bus

Agreed 100% - put the onus back on to the applicant! But of course that's too simple! They have had since May to come up with a solution, and haven't even made any suggestions, or even notified their citizens of a forthcoming problem. "Throwing their citizens under the bus" seems very appropriate under the circumstances.

[Wanderlust]

2 minutes ago, sambum said:

Agreed 100% - put the onus back on to the applicant! But of course that's too simple! They have had since May to come up with a solution, and haven't even made any suggestions, or even notified their citizens of a forthcoming problem. "Throwing their citizens under the bus" seems very appropriate under the circumstances.

Maybe the BE believe that it is ultimately a waste of time from what Thai immigration have said to them? Perhaps they have been in discussions/negotiations until now over the issue?

[sambum]

6 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

So to sum up the 48 pages so far, the British Embassy will no longer provide a letter to immigration after 12th December because they are unable to fulfill the verification of a person's income that Thai Immigration has requested. A reasonable assumption is that this is a request that has been made to all countries embassies and consulates. It is apparent that several other countries do not verify the applicants income either. The logical conclusion to this is that either immigration will begin to require more documentation and dispense with the need for an embassy letter, or they will simply refuse to accept applications without an embassy letter; if it is the former, I would expect to see more embassies ending the letter service, but if the latter then everything will carry on as before except for the Brits, who will only have the lump sum method available to them, either genuinely or through an agent (if they don't stop that procedure). My gut feeling is that it will be the former, and my hope is that they will alter the documentation you can provide to allow things like foreign or Thai bank statements, or letters from tax authorities, pension providers, banks etc as sufficient to prove income to immigration.

"things like foreign or Thai bank statements, or letters from tax authorities, pension providers, banks etc as sufficient to prove income to immigration."

 

Nice idea, but to do that the Thai Immigration Officer dealing with your application would have to be very competent in READING the English language, not just be able to say "You come back tomorrow/next week!"

 

[Wanderlust]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

"things like foreign or Thai bank statements, or letters from tax authorities, pension providers, banks etc as sufficient to prove income to immigration."

 

Nice idea, but to do that the Thai Immigration Officer dealing with your application would have to be very competent in READING the English language, not just be able to say "You come back tomorrow/next week!"

 

Yes agreed it is probably wishful thinking, although I guess with a notarised translation it could work?

[CharlieH]

some off topic posts removed.

[Jingthing]

"things like foreign or Thai bank statements, or letters from tax authorities, pension providers, banks etc as sufficient to prove income to immigration."  

Nice idea, but to do that the Thai Immigration Officer dealing with your application would have to be very competent in READING the English language, not just be able to say "You come back tomorrow/next week!"

 

Good point. Keep in mind they have applicants from everywhere. Not just documents in English. Russian, Portuguese, you name it. 

I still think they ought to have a one time validation service for lifetime streams particularly government pensions.

 

Now that they are really looking at this we have to admit from the Thai pov this isn't easy.

 

I'm not particularly optimistic that the result of all this will be pleasing or seen as reasonable to foreigners.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

[sambum]

Just now, Wanderlust said:

Yes agreed it is probably wishful thinking, although I guess with a notarised translation it could work?

Good point! And another way to increase the Thai Government or legal representatives' revenue!

 

 

[observer90210]

46 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If you look in the garbage can, not surprisingly, you're going to find garbage.... e.g., Bank of America.

 

I'm getting 2 - 4% on my U.S. FDIC insured checking accounts right now. And U.S. CD rates for terms of 5 years or so are often above 3% right now, and heading higher.

 

Thai rates are nowhere close to those. But, you do have to have enough knowledge to NOT look to BofA for competitive interest rates.

 

But your post is also kind of off-topic, so it's probably a better discussion to be had in another thread.

 

 

 

thanks for your time and the PM, will check up your recommendations you sent.

Edited October 11, 2018 by observer90210

[Spidey]

35 minutes ago, sambum said:

Yes indeed! What about the people who have been using the proof of income letter for years and whose extension of visa is due in the next 2 or 3 months? How are they supposed to suddenly find 800,000 baht to deposit in a Thai bank account, and how can it be in there for 3 months if their extension is due in 2 months? Nice of them to give as much notice as they possibly could to people when they have known since MAY!!!

Apply for your letter now. It's valid for 6 months.

[onera1961]

2 hours ago, imaderbyfan said:

So why is the Brit. Embassy the only one to announce that it isn't prepared to issue the REQUIRED proof of income letters?

I don't know about UK embassy rules, but for Americans they take an oath (that can lead to perjury for false statements) about their income before the officer signs the affidavit. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

32 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

Nice idea, but to do that the Thai Immigration Officer dealing with your application would have to be very competent in READING the English language, not just be able to say "You come back tomorrow/next week!"

 

 

Most of the processing IO officers I've ever dealt with even in BKK CW (those who actually meet with you to go thru your paperwork) can barely speak even basic English. I wouldn't be too optimistic about their EN reading skills. And that's in BKK, not the hinterlands.

 

[galt67]

47 minutes ago, sambum said:

"things like foreign or Thai bank statements, or letters from tax authorities, pension providers, banks etc as sufficient to prove income to immigration."

 

Nice idea, but to do that the Thai Immigration Officer dealing with your application would have to be very competent in READING the English language, not just be able to say "You come back tomorrow/next week!"

 

Instead, Imm COULD require a 'Thai bank book' showing a monthly average of 65k/40k being deposited from foreign sources.

 

Eliminates any issues regarding English comprehension, etc.

 

And, evidently, is already in effect at CM Imm (at least for Americans).

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by galt67
added

[spidermike007]

I have been expecting this for years now. I know many who were taking advantage of the system. Going to hurt some guys who were just getting by. 

[sambum]

"British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa."

 

It may have been mentioned previously in this post or the one running in tandem with it, but to save trawling through 48 pages of comments for this post alone, or trying to get an answer from the British Embassy who will no doubt be inundated at the moment, can someone answer this question? The 800,000 baht has to be left untouched in the Thai bank for 3 months. Does the same apply to the monthly income of 65,000 baht? In other words, if my extension of visa was due on, say, 1st April, and I made arrangements for my pensions and funding (totalling more than 65,000 baht a month) from the UK to be paid into a Thai bank from 1st January, does that money have to remain untouched for 3 months, or can I use it for my daily living expenses? 

Edited October 11, 2018 by sambum

[Wanderlust]

2 minutes ago, sambum said:

"British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa."

 

It may have been mentioned previously in this post or the one running in tandem with it, but to save trawling through 48 pages of comments, can someone answer this question? The 800,000 baht has to be left untouched in the Thai bank for 3 months. Does the same apply Is it the same for the monthly income of 65,000 baht? In other words, if my extension of visa was due on, say, 1st April, and I made arrangements for my pensions and funding (totalling more than 65,000 baht a month) from the UK to be paid into a Thai bank from 1st January, does that money have to remain untouched for 3 months, or can I use it for my daily living expenses? 

Therein lies the rub; Thai immigration have never accepted this without an embassy letter so I understand, and no one as yet has asked the question of them whether it would be acceptable to them without one. No one knows how many months of income would be needed in that scenario, if at all. Logic dictates that you should be able to spend your income, and only the fact of it arriving in your account is important, but it would only be guesswork until we get an answer from immigration.

[dontoearth]

7 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

Wow. It seems that getting $2000 monthly pension is near the maximum. 

 

Not many will get that much so many not qualify to live in Thailand and the Thai baht is getting stronger ...

     You are right.   People that have only the minimum govt. pension can't live in Thailand.  They are quite poor in old age and have trouble living in general. 

[chainarong]

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 4:29 PM, smedly said:

my lodgements are not monthly they are twice yearly, I assume that will count for the same thing over 12 monthsbe interesting to see how they work that out

 

Lets assume for a moment that 800k baht is 20k sterling and you pay in 10k sterling annually (income) and keep a balance of above 10k throughout the year, does that then equal 20k or 800k baht, like to see how they work that out lol

Yeah, the originals are laughing all the way to the bank

[Jingthing]

"British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa."
 
It may have been mentioned previously in this post or the one running in tandem with it, but to save trawling through 48 pages of comments for this post alone, or trying to get an answer from the British Embassy who will no doubt be inundated at the moment, can someone answer this question? The 800,000 baht has to be left untouched in the Thai bank for 3 months. Does the same apply to the monthly income of 65,000 baht? In other words, if my extension of visa was due on, say, 1st April, and I made arrangements for my pensions and funding (totalling more than 65,000 baht a month) from the UK to be paid into a Thai bank from 1st January, does that money have to remain untouched for 3 months, or can I use it for my daily living expenses? 

That's an easy one. No! If they switch to a system of required monthly transfers to do an income method application there is no way there would be seasoning requirements with on any minimum balance. That would be crazy.

Of course the bank account methods require money seasoning.

Its a much better question to ask about how many months back for the transfers.


Not to mention transferwise which is rapidly gaining in popularity does not show up as foreign transfer.

So if they require foreign transfers even more of a problem for many.

Not about the income being fake. About mechanical transfer and personal money management issues.

If it's all year for transfers that's going to be very onerous for many. I predict a significant percentage of people would either switch to the 800k method or leave Thailand.

I think they need to think long and hard about requiring such transfers unless they really do want to shake out a huge chunk of us not because we can't afford to live here but because they've made the rules too unreasonable and too annoying.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[chickenslegs]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not to mention transferwise which is rapidly gaining in popularity does not show up as foreign transfer.

Shows up as Foreign T/T on my Bangkok Bank statement and in the bank book.

[Issanjohn]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

John, I already sent my 3rd email to ACS some hours ago after you received your second response from them. I haven't received any response to MY latest email asking them to resolve the disparities.

 

Part of the problem is, when you or I send them an email and they reply, we have no way of knowing whether the same person or a different person is responding, and who that is. The "AB" signature has been the same, but no way to know if that ties to a particular person or is just some code they use.

 

Thanks for continuing to try to get some clarity from ACS.

 

I’ve received a lot more responses from them because I’m getting really assertive but polite at the same time with them.  So far it looks like literally every other embassy is business as usual and providing the proof of income affidavits EXCEPT for the British Embassy.  The US Embassy nothing has changed regardless of the BS statement the British Embassy made the German Embassy and every other Embassy is still providing the service except for the British Embassy.  Sounds like the British Embassy is just lazy because they don’t want to full fill the requirement that’s always been in place, the only difference is that immigration is now actually enforcing the rule that embassies must verify our income which I have no problem with because I know that my monthly income requirement is way above the minimum for my marriage visa.  Even for a retirement visa my income is still more than double the minimum monthly requirement.  I go by the monthly income requirement because it’s no ones business how much money I have saved and I prefer to use my United States bank, I don’t want to use a local bank but if I’m forced to I will.  I can put 40 or 50 thousand Baht in a Thai bank just to show the minimum monthly income and then print a bank statement and then just withdraw my money back after I print the bank statement.  It would be a hassle but I could do it.  I have savings in the states and I receive my monthly pension payments.  

[blackhorse]

I’ve received a lot more responses from them because I’m getting really assertive but polite at the same time with them.  So far it looks like literally every other embassy is business as usual and providing the proof of income affidavits EXCEPT for the British Embassy.  The US Embassy nothing has changed regardless of the BS statement the British Embassy made the German Embassy and every other Embassy is still providing the service except for the British Embassy.  Sounds like the British Embassy is just lazy because they don’t want to full fill the requirement that’s always been in place, the only difference is that immigration is now actually enforcing the rule that embassies must verify our income which I have no problem with because I know that my monthly income requirement is way above the minimum for my marriage visa.  Even for a retirement visa my income is still more than double the minimum monthly requirement.  I go by the monthly income requirement because it’s no ones business how much money I have saved and I prefer to use my United States bank, I don’t want to use a local bank but if I’m forced to I will.  I can put 40 or 50 thousand Baht in a Thai bank just to show the minimum monthly income and then print a bank statement and then just withdraw my money back after I print the bank statement.  It would be a hassle but I could do it.  I have savings in the states and I receive my monthly pension payments.  

It's already been mentioned a number of times. The British embassy is one of the few or perhaps the only one that provides a letter after verification of income which makes them liable

Most of the others use a different system which requires the applicant to write their own letter and the embassy just witnesses the signature. Zero liability