BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[The manic]

24 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The non-O makes sense for many of those who do return, but there are others who do not want (for them) the hassle of the 3 month border crossing. They would like to avoid that. Most I know either use the 800k or the agency route. Up to them. Now about that logic thing...

1) But their might be a clampdown on Agencies so that route might not be available. 

2) Would the authorities accept 3 monthly border crossings? They are clamping down on other border runs.

[tropo]

6 hours ago, blackhorse said:

Would that waiver be any good in a courtroom?

Lots of companies add waivers to their contracts that mean nothing in court.

 

Surely best to use prevention and not be liable in the first place eg what that rest have done

 

What possible court proceedings involving an expat or embassy could take place with regards to an income letter? Can you name a single case of litigation against an embassy over an income letter? It's just a stupid excuse IMO. If immigration decided not to accept an income letter for whatever reason, they would merely cancel the extension application and give the expat marching orders - case closed. They wouldn't even bother to contact the embassy. Thai immigration has all the power to do as they please.

[tropo]

25 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

I'm afraid that the status quo is not its own justification. The British Embassy obviously has the right and has issued a statement accordingly. Those that have used the income facility (not the same as rely) have alternative pathways. That they would prefer the status quo ante, well things change.

Yes, things change. For all we know we could be heading for the 800k-in-the-bank method as the only way to retire in Thailand. People seem somewhat confident that Thai Immigration will accommodate the people who cannot use this method. I'm not confident at all that they care... especially considering the heavy-handed tactics Immigration have been showing us of late.

[blackhorse]

What possible court proceedings involving an expat or embassy could take place with regards to an income letter? Can you name a single case of litigation against an embassy over an income letter? It's just a stupid excuse IMO. If immigration decided not to accept an income letter for whatever reason, they would merely cancel the extension application and give the expat marching orders - case closed. They wouldn't even bother to contact the embassy. Thai immigration has all the power to do as they please.

You have no idea what triggered the brit embassy letter shutdown. All any of us can assume it's related their statement about satisfying the thai authorities

 

The legality of the income letter "waver" was just a by product of the discussions here on TV

 

Try to keep up. Nobody said it was the sole reason

 

[dontoearth]

5 hours ago, JerseytoBKK said:

Yes, I'm in the US and used the estimator probably over a hundred times during the 4 years leading up to my retirement. I specifically looked at various scenarios such as delaying claiming benefits even after I stopped working and they all showed that benefits keep increasing but not as high as if you keep working.  If you were born in 1956, you could have started to figure out your retirement amount using this worksheet: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10070.pdf. Then you could have found this info to discover how the monthly number gets translated to your benefit amount:  

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2018/05/26/heres-how-the-social-security-retirement-benefit-f.aspx. 

 

To figure out how the WEP affects your payout, see this: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf. I didn't run any numbers using WEP calculations because I like most people aren't receiving government pensions so WEP doesn't effect me. 

 

There's no "you don't get the automatic raise of 8% every year anymore if you are not still working and paying in to the system between 62-70. " You were penalized with a over a 25% reduction by claiming early. If you waited until after 66 and 2 months, then you would have earned the 8% increase until 70 but in your case, part of it would have been offset by WEP. 

 

Your decision to claim benefits at 62 might have been the best choice for you. I was going to claim at 62 because after extensive numbers crunching it made more sense. Until my situation changed and then it made more financial sense to claim at 64. Lots of factors go into a decision of when it's best to claim and in the end, luck plays a part also.

 

I used this site by the best selling author and expert

https://maximizemysocialsecurity.com/

I did analysis 2 years in a row and each analysis gives 99 scenarios.

The site allows you to put in your social security statements but also runs a long questionnaire to include things like WEP.

62 was my best shot.  

I also went to Social Security office for a live counselor Q&A before signing up.

I just got an email from my Senators Duckworth and Durbin here in IL and both support a repeal of the WEP law which would give me a much larger monthly check.

I don't see it happening and I am doing just fine anyway but would never turn down more money.

Looks like we both do lots of research.  I am a member of fool.com also.  I manage my own portfolio.

And luck of the draw has a lot to do with finances even for the serious planner, agreed.

 

 

[Spidey]

22 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

You have no idea what triggered the brit embassy letter shutdown. All any of us can assume it's related their statement about satisfying the thai authorities

I think that it's much safer to assume that it has nothing whatsoever to do with satisfying Thai authorities.

 

The British Embassy does more than most to verify the stated income, so why would only they be targeted?

 

They have publicly lied about other aspects of the situation, safe to assume that they have lied about their motive for withdrawing the letters.

[blackhorse]

I think that it's much safer to assume that it has nothing whatsoever to do with satisfying Thai authorities.
 
The British Embassy does more than most to verify the stated income, so why would only they be targeted?
 
They have publicly lied about other aspects of the situation, safe to assume that they have lied about their motive for withdrawing the letters.

We can only go by the information presented so far. They will be in deep sh$t if they lied.

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

57 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I think that it's much safer to assume that it has nothing whatsoever to do with satisfying Thai authorities.
 
The British Embassy does more than most to verify the stated income, so why would only they be targeted?
 
They have publicly lied about other aspects of the situation, safe to assume that they have lied about their motive for withdrawing the letters.

We can only go by the information presented so far. They will be in deep sh$t if they lied.

We already have the evidence that they lied. Said that US Embassy would be following suit - blatant lie.

 

Said that Thai Immigration would accept Thai bank deposits as evidence of 65k baht monthly income - blatant lie.

 

Why would they be in the mire if they'd lied about their motives for ceasing the service?

 

They gave a feeble excuse and they have withdrawn the service. End of. No more letters after the end of this year. What ya gonna do?

Edited October 11, 2018 by Spidey

[EVENKEEL]

So 3 good friends get together, pool their money and rotate it between accounts for their turn with immigration.

 

Tell the GF, you would like to borrow 800K 3 mos/yr from her family.

 

I've been talking more about this to others lately and I'm surprised they all use agents. I seriously don't think this can change. What may change is the agent's price may increase as more wheels to grease.

Edited October 11, 2018 by EVENKEEL

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, blackhorse said:

You have no idea what triggered the brit embassy letter shutdown. All any of us can assume it's related their statement about satisfying the thai authorities

The initial discussion between immigration and the UK embassy was in May, just when Thailand's most wanted was granted a ten year UK visa... 

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, The manic said:

1) But their might be a clampdown on Agencies so that route might not be available. 

2) Would the authorities accept 3 monthly border crossings? They are clamping down on other border runs.

1. Agency route is available now. Let's keep to the now for now.

2. Non-I O multiple entry visa requires exit every 90 days. Visa valid for year. If border gives problem, then take a flight.

[oldlakey]

9 hours ago, imaderbyfan said:

Anyway......what do you all reckon my chances of getting an income based Extension to my Visa in January, are?

Back on topic.

See what I did there?

 A much better chance than you have of getting promotion next May

Before you ask I follow Ipswich 555555555

Edited October 12, 2018 by oldlakey

[Spidey]

6 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

The initial discussion between immigration and the UK embassy was in May, just when Thailand's most wanted was granted a ten year UK visa... 

How do you know there was a discussion in May? Have any other embassys reported having discussions with Immigration? Have Immigration said that they have had any discussions with any embassys?

 

Given the lies that we know that the British Embassy have already told, what makes you think that the alleged discussion in May isn't a lie?

[oldlakey]

12 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

The initial discussion between immigration and the UK embassy was in May, just when Thailand's most wanted was granted a ten year UK visa... 

She had no problem proving her financial clout now did she

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

Yes, things change. For all we know we could be heading for the 800k-in-the-bank method as the only way to retire in Thailand. People seem somewhat confident that Thai Immigration will accommodate the people who cannot use this method. I'm not confident at all that they care... especially considering the heavy-handed tactics Immigration have been showing us of late.

Careful. This isn't about retirement per se. It is about the options available for those on visa extensions. What we may or may not be heading for is speculation. Let's just deal with what is actually on the table. And that, for UK nationals, will be the 800k in the bank or use an agency.

[SheungWan]

16 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

The initial discussion between immigration and the UK embassy was in May, just when Thailand's most wanted was granted a ten year UK visa... 

 

3 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

She had no problem proving her financial clout now did she

You think she was requested proof based on Thai monthly income?

Edited October 12, 2018 by SheungWan

[Spidey]

Just now, SheungWan said:

And that, for UK nationals, will be the 800k in the bank or use an agency.

Not sure that using an agency to seed notional accounts will be an option for long. Big Joke's on the case now and he's no joke.

[oldlakey]

Just now, SheungWan said:

 

You think she demanded proof based on Thai monthly income?

 No idea what the UK asked for 55555555 or if she even demanded anything my man

[wayned]

For all Us Citizens!

 

I have an appointment to get my annual Income Affidavit next Tuesday morning at the US Embassy in Bangkok..  In light of all of the babble going on I emailed ACS at the US Embassy last night and received the following reply at 0700 this morning:

 

"You are able to get your income affidavit on Tuesday. We are aware of the U.K. Embassy’s statement to the press. The U.S. Embassy’s current income affidavit policies can be found on our website: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/. We are currently evaluating options regarding the future provision of this document.  We urge all citizens to ensure they are in compliance with Thai visa requirements."

 

So it looks like, at least for the time being, that Us Income Affidavits are still available.  I emailed them back and asked them if they do change the policy that they give us at lest 90 days notice so that we can adhere to the 90 day seasoning period for the 800000 baht bank deposit method.

Edited October 12, 2018 by wayned

[lamyai3]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

How do you know there was a discussion in May?

Because it was referred to in the OP:

"They said that they had a meeting with immigration in May" 

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, imaderbyfan said:

Anyway......what do you all reckon my chances of getting an income based Extension to my Visa in January, are?

Back on topic.

Zero.

[Spidey]

Just now, lamyai3 said:

Because it was referred to in the OP:

"They said that they had a meeting with immigration in May" 

Exactly a bunch of proven liars have said it, no one else.

[Thaidream]

Nothing has changed at Thai Immigration- I was at CW a few days ago and there were no notices of any change regarding documentation. For Retirement- they will accept money in bank 800K or an income stream of 65K per month.  The question is- if one's Embassy will not provide the Income letter- what will Thai Immigration accept as proof of Income. In the past- if asked for added proof- they have accepted- Pension letters- Foreign Bank Statements sowing deposits in and ATM withdrawals as well as ATM withdrawal slips. Some offices accepted copies of foreign ATM cards.

 

I have to believe that reasonable solutions will be found.

 

[Thaidream]

9 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Anyway......what do you all reckon my chances of getting an income based Extension to my Visa in January, are?

100%- Go to your Embassy and obtain the income letter- it's good for 6 months- then head for Immigration 30-45 days prior to you extension expiration date. Bring  backup proof of income.  Even the BE will issue an income letter up to 11 Dec 2018.

[SheungWan]

Just now, Thaidream said:

Nothing has changed at Thai Immigration- I was at CW a few days ago and there were no notices of any change regarding documentation. For Retirement- they will accept money in bank 800K or an income stream of 65K per month.  The question is- if one's Embassy will not provide the Income letter- what will Thai Immigration accept as proof of Income. In the past- if asked for added proof- they have accepted- Pension letters- Foreign Bank Statements sowing deposits in and ATM withdrawals as well as ATM withdrawal slips. Some offices accepted copies of foreign ATM cards.

I have to believe that reasonable solutions will be found.

This is not about changes at Thai immigration. This is about a Thai immigration requirement which is not going to be met in the future by the British Embassy for UK nationals wanting visa extension based on income stream. What you wish to believe, well up to you.

[lamyai3]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Exactly a bunch of proven liars have said it, no one else.

I'm not defending the embassy. Just pointing out that the timing of both the initial meeting in May, and the announcement about discontinuing income letters a few days after the immigration shakeup seem to speak for themselves. 

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

100%- Go to your Embassy and obtain the income letter- it's good for 6 months- then head for Immigration 30-45 days prior to you extension expiration date. Bring  backup proof of income.  Even the BE will issue an income letter up to 11 Dec 2018.

Looks like a plan!

[Skeptic7]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

My brain is addled after the past two days of income affidavits.... But I THOUGHT (not sure) I'd seen other people posting on Transferwise transactions saying they were showing up on the Thai bank end as domestic deposits. But I think those comments were based on what people were seeing in regular online banking, not the mobile apps. For sure, @Pib is our resident expert on Transferwise transactions, especially from the U.S.

I believe you are correct about that Tall John, but here's a clip from my Bangkok Bank iBanking online acct from my laptop. Says the same as the mobile app...International Transfer. Hopefully it does not state something different next time. 

 

[Thaidream]

28 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

This is not about changes at Thai immigration. This is about a Thai immigration requirement which is not going to be met in the future by the British Embassy for UK nationals wanting visa extension based on income stream. What you wish to believe, well up to you.

I hear what you are saying- what I am saying is that it is way too early to surmise that  Thai Imm will not accept another way of proving income. Even today- CM Imm is asking Us citizens to prove their income stream- one can show pension letters- foreign bank account printouts etc. In reality- that is better 'proof' than an Embassy Letter.  After almost 50 years of dealing with  Thai Immigration- I have found them reasonable and I have had many marriage and retirement extensions with varying paperwork changes through the years.

 

As far as the BE is concerned- an applicant can still get the income letter until 11 December which will still be good  for the next 6 months (June 2019)   This is October 2018 so plenty of time for  negotiations. 

[smedly]

6 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I'm afraid that the status quo is not its own justification. The British Embassy obviously has the right and has issued a statement accordingly. Those that have used the income facility (not the same as rely) have alternative pathways. That they would prefer the status quo ante, well things change.

what alternative pathways - speak for yourself, I personally know people who rely on this facility for their 12 month extension, some get income from renting property and others have pensions, investments or a combination, not all can get their hands on the cash to put in a Thai bank for three months, what do you suppose they do ? sell their properties or liquidate their assets

 

you are talking nonsense