BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

 

 

Some extension applicants were doing that  at the time for submitting an extension application, at least they were some years ago, which is the reason that immigrations instituted the seasoning requirement  to make it more difficult.

 

I doubt visa agents actually put Baht 800,000 in someone's account for three months to meet the requirement. They may do some creative documentation, but actually putting money in the bank for 3 months ... that seems unrealistic. To handle numerous "clients" that way would mean millions on loan at any time.

Yeah, and I'm guessing you don't need to engage them three months out from your application, so do the math on that. Corruption. Wink wink nod nod say no more. TIT. Mai bpen rai. Up2u.

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, Lampang2 said:

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84508-Non-Immigrant-visas.html#7

Scroll down to O-A


Skickat från min SM-N950F via Tapatalk
 

The non imm O-A is a visa issued by a Thai embassy or consulate.

 

The discussion is about proof of income or funds in a bank for an extension of stay issued by immigrations in Thailand.

 

Not the same thing. Not even under the same Thai ministries.

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, Issanjohn said:

The British Embassy needs to keep quiet when they don’t know what they are talking about and mind their own business lol.  I literally called and confirmed that the United States Embassy is not taking this action earlier today.  

Yes, as I said in other posts, it seems extraordinary for one embassy to announce anything about the policies of another embassy. 

 

And also I got an income letter from the US embassy a couple of weeks ago and most of the consular officials are quite chatty but there was no mention of any changes in future. Notarizing and certifying sworn affidavits, etc are standard services of US embassies everywhere. I seriously doubt the US Dept of State is implementing policy changes based on what some twit at the British embassy in Bangkok said.

[Lampang2]

The non imm O-A is a visa issued by a Thai embassy or consulate.
 
The discussion is about proof of income or funds in a bank for an extension of stay issued by immigrations in Thailand.
 
Not the same thing. Not even under the same Thai ministries.

Same economical requirements for extension.

For O-A at least.

AFAIK.



Skickat från min SM-N950F via Tapatalk

[fordguy61mi]

Sounds like both sides are too lazy to do the verification. WTH

Edited October 10, 2018 by fordguy61mi

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, Jimbo53 said:

I have known people that have approached Embassies for help,they may as well have asked a Thai Cab driver...TIT.

You're (rightly) criticizing foreign embassies, but then conclude with TiT.

 

The behavior of foreign embassy staff, or the lack of it, can hardly be blamed on Thailand.

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, Issanjohn said:

Although I do think that all embassies ought to at least make us show some sort of official income verification before issuing the Proof of Income Affidavit because anyone can just say they meet the minimum income requirement and I’ve always wondered why they don’t ask for it

Because the Dept of State does not want embassy staff being responsible for judging the validity of anything that you include in an affidavit. These days it's not all that difficult to create very realistic appearing fraudulent documents. An embassy employee can hardly be expected to reach a verdict on the authenticity of every sort of document people present. Other foreign embassies have admitted they aren't equipped to certify what everyone claims as income from their home countries even though they may have implied that is what they have been doing.

 

From the American Citizen Services website.

 

Quote

 

Affidavits
Oftentimes the Thai government requests the U.S. Embassy or Consulate General Chiang Mai “certify” documents listed under “services we cannot provide.” Please note the Embassy and Consulate CAN notarize an affidavit which may or may not satisfy the Thai requirement for “certification.”

An affidavit is a sworn statement of facts, made voluntarily, and confirmed by the oath or affirmation of the person making it.  Please note that the Embassy and Consulate assume no responsibility for the truth or falsity of the representations that appear in the affidavit. Only the identity of the individual making the statement is validated.

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

[fordguy61mi]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No you di'int! 

As popular as it is on here to bash Trump, some of us support the President and his policies.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, fordguy61mi said:

As popular as it is on here to bash Trump, some of us support the President and his policies.

Wrong topic. See world news. Bye.

[garyk]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes, as I said in other posts, it seems extraordinary for one embassy to announce anything about the policies of another embassy. 

 

And also I got an income letter from the US embassy a couple of weeks ago and most of the consular officials are quite chatty but there was no mention of any changes in future. Notarizing and certifying sworn affidavits, etc are standard services of US embassies everywhere. I seriously doubt the US Dept of State is implementing policy changes based on what some twit at the British embassy in Bangkok said.

If the letters have to be used with bank statements then the American embassy is just making sure the cash cow does not leave IMO. If Thailand requires you to get the affidavit and Thailand wants you to show proof of income then Ok by me, but it says to me the US just wants the extra income and has worked it out with Thailand to secure it. IMO the price of the notarized letters are a rip off anyway. Just let me show the income if that is the case.

[NickJ]

Americans have always had extra privileges here. We can own  100 percent of our businesses. Under  the Treaty of Amity.  Just need an affidavit for a retirement extension. I doubt anything will ever change. 

[taxin]

15 years I’ve been living in Thailand yet I was unaware you could stay here based on having money in your home country, with a letter from your embassy clarifying it. I’m surprised they never stopped this a long time ago, seems to go against all logic. 

 

Let’s face it, what use is the money in another country when you get in to trouble. If your semi-unconscious in a hospital with a 100K hospital bill it’s just a matter of handing your ATM card over to someone, 10 mins later the cash is there.

 

The Thai authorities will see this as much quicker and more convenient than waiting around for you to find a decent internet connection to log into your overseas account, and then wait another 4 or 5 days for the money to arrive.

 

Cash is king, and if you don’t have immediate access to it you don’t have it !

Edited October 10, 2018 by taxin

[Jim P]

1 hour ago, Lampang2 said:

Same economical requirements for extension.

For O-A at least.

AFAIK.



Skickat från min SM-N950F via Tapatalk
 

No its not, that money doesn`t need seasoning as it does for extensions, and thats just one difference.

[garyk]

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

So what? You certainly get offended very easily.

 

Presently the going rate for a one year stay in Thailand on retirement is 800000 baht, which it has been for a number of years and as clearly stated by the British embassy. The 800000 baht in a Thai bank in Thai currency immigration policy is not something new that has come out of the blue yonder. So what`s the problem and why is that so difficult to understand? If don`t want or can`t do, can`t have and these are the hard facts.

 

As foreigners staying in Thailand for the long term, we are required to have the prescribed monies in a Thai bank account, nothing complicated about it. 800000 baht is approx 24.5 thousand US dollars or 18.5 thousand UK pounds, which is not a fortune today considering how cheaply we can live in Thailand compared to our home countries and in my opinion that`s still a great deal. Yet there are those here who seem to be struggling or even not willing to bring over those amounts, expecting everything laid on for virtually nothing. As I said previously, no one owes anyone else a living, it`s a 50/50 relationship, we put something into Thailand and Thailand lets us live here whereas the lifestyles for us are of much better quality than in our own countries. Those that disagree, then why are you here?

 

 

So you are saying spending 65K + here / month is not enough, and is not a 50/50 relationship. I now have to support the Thai banking system.

That my friend is total and absolute BS. It is mind boggling to me how any rational person could think this way. 

[Jingthing]

15 years I’ve been living in Thailand yet I was unaware you could stay here based on having money in your home country, with a letter from your embassy clarifying it. I’m surprised they never stopped this a long time ago, seems to go against all logic. 

 

Let’s face it, what use is the money in another country when you get in to trouble. If your semi-unconscious in a hospital with a 100K hospital bill it’s just a matter of handing your ATM card over to someone, 10 mins later the cash is there.

 

The Thai authorities will see this as much quicker and more convenient than waiting around for you to find a decent internet connection to log into your overseas account, and then wait another 4 or 5 days for the money to arrive.

 

Cash is king, and if you don’t have immediate access to it you don’t have it !

You don't understand.

This topic is about retirement extensions done in Thailand specifically income based applications.

Income based applications are based on income. Not cash.

The income does not need to be imported to Thailand.

The required income is deemed adequate to support the applicant in Thailand.

 

Bank account applications are based on showing the required funds in Thailand.

 

There is no retirement extension possible showing funds outside Thailand as you seem to think. The funds must be in Thailand.

 

OA visas are a separate thing. Don't conflate OA visas with extensions.

 

 

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[garyk]

16 minutes ago, taxin said:

15 years I’ve been living in Thailand yet I was unaware you could stay here based on having money in your home country, with a letter from your embassy clarifying it. I’m surprised they never stopped this a long time ago, seems to go against all logic. 

 

Let’s face it, what use is the money in another country when you get in to trouble. If your semi-unconscious in a hospital with a 100K hospital bill it’s just a matter of handing your ATM card over to someone, 10 mins later the cash is there.

 

The Thai authorities will see this as much quicker and more convenient than waiting around for you to find a decent internet connection to log into your overseas account, and then wait another 4 or 5 days for the money to arrive.

 

Cash is king, and if you don’t have immediate access to it you don’t have it !

Mind blowing comment! Wow

[Jingthing]

Mind blowing comment! Wow

Totally based on a complete misunderstanding of the requirements for extensions.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bdenner]

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

So what? You certainly get offended very easily.

 

Presently the going rate for a one year stay in Thailand on retirement is 800000 baht, which it has been for a number of years and as clearly stated by the British embassy. The 800000 baht in a Thai bank in Thai currency immigration policy is not something new that has come out of the blue yonder. So what`s the problem and why is that so difficult to understand? If don`t want or can`t do, can`t have and these are the hard facts.

 

As foreigners staying in Thailand for the long term, we are required to have the prescribed monies in a Thai bank account, nothing complicated about it. 800000 baht is approx 24.5 thousand US dollars or 18.5 thousand UK pounds, which is not a fortune today considering how cheaply we can live in Thailand compared to our home countries and in my opinion that`s still a great deal. Yet there are those here who seem to be struggling or even not willing to bring over those amounts, expecting everything laid on for virtually nothing. As I said previously, no one owes anyone else a living, it`s a 50/50 relationship, we put something into Thailand and Thailand lets us live here whereas the lifestyles for us are of much better quality than in our own countries. Those that disagree, then why are you here?

 

 

OK, in this day and age USD $24.5K is not a huge sum. BUT no matter what, I'd rather have it in my home country working for me rather than sitting in some Thai financial institution doing nothing.

 

Apart from the declaration I get from my Embassy, Udon Thani Immigration 'sometimes' ask to look at my antiquated, humble Thai bank book. It is always available and shows that I bring WELL in excess of 800K Baht into Thailand, every year, at a rate which I require it.

 

So what is your problem with me doing it my and a legal way?

 

 

[garyk]

8 minutes ago, bdenner said:

OK, in this day and age USD $24.5K is not a huge sum. BUT no matter what, I'd rather have it in my home country working for me rather than sitting in some Thai financial institution doing nothing.

 

Apart from the declaration I get from my Embassy, Udon Thani Immigration 'sometimes' ask to look at my antiquated, humble Thai bank book. It is always available and shows that I bring WELL in excess of 800K Baht into Thailand, every year, at a rate which I require it.

 

So what is your problem with me doing it my and a legal way?

 

 

I agree with you and so do most rational people.

We are just feeding the troll's at this point. haha 

 

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Big Joke will soon be throwing a spanner into the works of the corrupt agencies and those that use them. I know several expats that are working here illegally many on-line. These are really going to have a difficult time trying to explain to immigration how they obtain their incomes and why so many prefer the monthly income confirmation letters from their embassies method. Now it`s either going to be the full sum in a Thai bank account 3 months prior to application or having to show the sources of their incomes in real terms.

Going to be a big dilemma for many. But of course this will mean more hurdles to jump over to me and others like me that stay in Thailand by the rules.

The agencies work it through the lump sum route.

[mikosan]

11 hours ago, eggers said:

Why doesn't British Embassy do what Australian Embassy does?

The applicant is required to obtain a letter of confirmation of income in their own country from pension fund, accountant, etc & that it's equal to or greater than equiv. 65,000bht p/m.

The applicant prepares a Statutory Declaration referring to the letter & confirming contents, i.e. income, source, etc.

The applicant signs Stat Dec in presence of & witnessed by an Embassy Staff member; they are just witnessing the signature of the citizen/ applicant, not the Stat Dec content!!

Have used that for past 7 years without an issue!! 

Wrong.  Australians do not require a letter of confirmation of income, or even need to refer to such a thing.  They simply complete a statutory declaration, which contains details of their income, as declared by them.  They then sign that in the presence of a member of the Embassy staff, who are simply a witness to their signature, the content being irrelevant to the person witnessing the signature.  However, if you make a false declaration, you can be prosecuted by the Australian authorities.  And I have used that method for an equal amount of years as you, without issue.  Obviously that system is open to abuse, but in my case I could prove my income if required by the Thai authorities, but that is not a requirement of the rules and regulations relating to statutory declarations. 

[Time Traveller]

I'm not sure why everyone is angry with the British embassy. They have been honest in so far as they can not verify income from people's declarations. The people you should be angry at is the Thai immigration. They add extra work onto these applications regularly and immigration always expect other people or organizations to do that extra work required that they immigration should be doing.

 

And besides, unless you are on a pension or straight salary, verifying income is impossible until the financial year ends. Many people living off of investment income will have variable income due to market rates. (I personally have income from 3 different countries, so exchanges rates affect the THB amount constantly that's it's impossible to confirm what it is except to provide last year's tax return)

Thai immigration need to step into the 21st century and stop asking foreign embassies to verify income.

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Time Traveller

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, taxin said:

15 years I’ve been living in Thailand yet I was unaware you could stay here based on having money in your home country, with a letter from your embassy clarifying it. I’m surprised they never stopped this a long time ago, seems to go against all logic. 

Let’s face it, what use is the money in another country when you get in to trouble. If your semi-unconscious in a hospital with a 100K hospital bill it’s just a matter of handing your ATM card over to someone, 10 mins later the cash is there.

The Thai authorities will see this as much quicker and more convenient than waiting around for you to find a decent internet connection to log into your overseas account, and then wait another 4 or 5 days for the money to arrive.

Cash is king, and if you don’t have immediate access to it you don’t have it !

It makes zero difference to the hospital whether your credit card is Thai-based or overseas-based. No log in required. No need for ATM card.

Edited October 10, 2018 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

I'm not sure why everyone is angry with the British embassy. They have been honest in so far as they can not verify income from people's declarations. The people you should be angry at is the Thai immigration. They add extra work onto these applications regularly and immigration always expect other people or organizations to do that extra work required that they immigration should be doing.

And besides, unless you are on a pension or straight salary, verifying income is impossible until the financial year ends. Many people living off of investment income will have variable income due to market rates. (I personally have income from 3 different countries, so exchanges rates affect the THB amount constantly that's it's impossible to confirm what it is except to provide last year's tax return)

Thai immigration need to step into the 21st century and stop asking foreign embassies to verify income.

No need to be angry with either side really. Just consider the 2 remaining options and get on with it. Either use lump-sum method or agency method.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, garyk said:

So you are saying spending 65K + here / month is not enough, and is not a 50/50 relationship. I now have to support the Thai banking system.

That my friend is total and absolute BS. It is mind boggling to me how any rational person could think this way. 

So your recommended plan of action is what exactly?

[DJ54]

7 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

You wrote, "Read if your getting US Social Security and living aboard not naturalized citizen but legally worked in US paid into Social Security if six months out of country payments are stopped. "  That's a pretty big piece of fake news and should be deleted. 

Perhaps I misinterpreted cut and paste is from SSN website. If so let me know how to delete. Thanks

 

If you are not a U.S. citizen or you do not meet one of the conditions for continued payments, we will stop your payments after you have been outside the United States for six full calendar months.
Once this happens, we cannot start your payments again until you come back and stay in the United States for a

[flipside555]

3 hours ago, Issanjohn said:

Like I said earlier I called the United State Embassy today and it’s not an issue for United States Citizens.  The British Embassy clearly doesn’t know what they’re talking about or apparently doing either.  And additionally I just pulled this information off of the United State Embassy website just now which verifies that they are still offering this service and there are absolutely NO announcements on the United States Embassy’s website about discontinuing the service like it says on the British Embassy’s website.  And the United States Embassy is really good about posting announcements and messages.  See attached:  

 

 

Quote

Only the identity of the individual making the statement is verified.

 

 

That shows that the American and the British embassies are saying the same thing. They are both stating that they cannot verify any financial information you provide to them.

 

The only difference is that the American Embassy will issue a document -an affidavit - attesting that you claim to have the funds. All that embassy is doing is guaranteeing that the person signing the document and claiming to be you, really is you.

 

It'll be be very interesting to see if that is acceptable to Thai immigration. If it is then there will be a lot of pressure on the British Embassy to bring back similar notary services which it ended at the beginning of this year.

 

[poanoi]

5 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

And what precisely is your understanding of the topic? From your recent threads, maybe finding the cheapest place on the planet to burden?

 

Amdy2206 is quite correct.

 

I'm not a huge fan of Frank Sinatra, but didn't he sing of New York: "If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere"?

 

Well, let me paraphrase: "If you can't afford retirement in Thailand.... just go home, and live off welfare."

everyone here on a pension can demonstrably afford retirement here, or they would have starved to death already,

not counting the beggars that makes headline but they are few and far between,

and they have in all likelihood not a pension,

or got robbed by their 'gf'

Edited October 10, 2018 by poanoi

[pattayadgw]

it maybe more expensive transferring but its a lot safer than sitting in a thai bank... had a friend who had his 800k disappear... thats a fact!! 

[NaamGin]

The answer to this is simple, too simple actually. 

Thai Immigration needs to adhere to their own published rules on the topic:

either 800k baht in a Thai bank account seasoned for 3 months

-or-

proof of 65K baht per month being deposited in a Thai bank account

-or-

a combination of deposits on account + income deposited to a Thai bank account

 

No where in the text does it state anything about having an income affidavit from your home country's consulate. It states that if you can proof 65k baht per month being deposited into a Thai bank account, you qualify. Now we just have to convince Thai immigration to follow their own published rules. Good luck with that.