Buying on Koh Samui

[bobby2]

I would like to buy some land on Koh Samui. I have been with girlfriend 8 years now and we just did the big party / giving money to mother etc , but have not yet signed the marriage papers.

My question. I would like to buy some land in her name and lease the land to build a house which would be in my name for 30 years nad hopefully longer if I last.

 

I have been told do this before we are officially married as this would be better if anything happens in the future or would this not count? I also want to get my property in UK separate.

Thanks

[ukrules]

I believe you are correct that this should be done before you get married as once you're married it would be dissolved in the event of a divorce which defeats the purpose.

 

Not getting married at all is the best option.

[baansgr]

So many threads and also hundreds of personal friends and acquaintances that have lost everything. There is no way of owning any property in Thailand as a Foreigner other than a condo.  Lease,  usufruct,  company,  kids name.... It's never yours and you are beholding to Thais always. For every one person that is happy there are thousands that regret it.  Married  kids,  together 20 years doesn't matter.  Seen it so many times.  If you are willing to write that money off then go ahead otherwise just rent or buy a condo in your name. Believe me. You won't own a single brick or dust of land

.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, bobby2 said:

I would like to buy some land on Koh Samui.

Buying property, especially land, anywhere in Thailand is potentially a problem, but trying to do it on islands seems to be even worse. Land registry on Thai islands is not always very clear.

[NCC1701A]

5 hours ago, bobby2 said:

I would like to buy some land in her name and lease the land

make sure you have a will because if you want some of your Farang family to get the house it will be a big problem without one. 

  

[baansgr]

9 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Buying property, especially land, anywhere in Thailand is potentially a problem, but trying to do it on islands seems to be even worse. Land registry on Thai islands is not always very clear.

samui did have a lot of encroachment and false Chanotes years ago, courstey of The Bandidos. But land is for Thais only so even clean land chanotes are worthless to a Foreigner.

[baansgr]

Yet another guy I know has just lost 12 million baht to a Thai wife and mother  of his kid.  Potless, homeless at 45 with no where to go but home skint.  Land,  house etc for Foreigners is a no no and should be wildly advertised how many people loose everything here in buying houses.  OP.... Don't do it. 

[robertson468]

I have never read so many negative and nonesense posts by idiots who claim that everyone who marries a Thia and buys land will loose it.  Absolute tosh!  I have been married now for nearly fourteen years, bought some land and gave it to my Wife who built a little Resort, which brings in a nice little income to supplement my pensions thank you very much.  Also many I my Friends are married to lovely, honest Thai Ladies and are doing very well thank you very much.  Yes, some have fallen foul of the less than honest Ladies, but sorry, that is up to your judgements and assessment of their character.  If you have doubts clearly don't go down that route.  If you have over several years come to trust her implicitly, then I would recommend that you go for it.  At first I bought land through a Company, but got fed up being whacked for tax each year and after four years, gifted it to my Wife.  She is an absolute treasure and I do trust her totally.  She treats me far better than I deserve (bit of a Grumpy old Git very occasionally) and hey ho nearly 14 years on, we are so enjoying our life together with a very comfortable income and travelling the World and sharing the experience together.  My advice;  don't listen to these "know it alls" and based on your own experience of your knowledge and judgement of your Lady, make your own decision.  Good luck and I hope it works out as well for you as it has for me.

[Bogbrush]

1 hour ago, robertson468 said:

I have never read so many negative and nonesense posts by idiots who claim that everyone who marries a Thia and buys land will loose it.  Absolute tosh!  I have been married now for nearly fourteen years, bought some land and gave it to my Wife who built a little Resort, which brings in a nice little income to supplement my pensions thank you very much.  Also many I my Friends are married to lovely, honest Thai Ladies and are doing very well thank you very much.  Yes, some have fallen foul of the less than honest Ladies, but sorry, that is up to your judgements and assessment of their character.  If you have doubts clearly don't go down that route.  If you have over several years come to trust her implicitly, then I would recommend that you go for it.  At first I bought land through a Company, but got fed up being whacked for tax each year and after four years, gifted it to my Wife.  She is an absolute treasure and I do trust her totally.  She treats me far better than I deserve (bit of a Grumpy old Git very occasionally) and hey ho nearly 14 years on, we are so enjoying our life together with a very comfortable income and travelling the World and sharing the experience together.  My advice;  don't listen to these "know it alls" and based on your own experience of your knowledge and judgement of your Lady, make your own decision.  Good luck and I hope it works out as well for you as it has for me.

To be fair I don’t think the negative posts are nonsense; what they are saying is undeniably true, in that (1) a farang can never own land 100% and (2) there are many examples of relationships turning sour, even after many many years, resulting in penury. The fact that your relationship is great is - well - great, but that doesn’t mean all the others are..

[Nip]

On 10/13/2018 at 4:03 PM, baansgr said:

So many threads and also hundreds of personal friends and acquaintances that have lost everything. There is no way of owning any property in Thailand as a Foreigner other than a condo.  Lease,  usufruct,  company,  kids name.... It's never yours and you are beholding to Thais always. For every one person that is happy there are thousands that regret it.  Married  kids,  together 20 years doesn't matter.  Seen it so many times.  If you are willing to write that money off then go ahead otherwise just rent or buy a condo in your name. Believe me. You won't own a single brick or dust of land

.

Your absolutely correct add into this urinal the fact that there are many cases of the husbands name being forged to transfer property to third parties (accomplices) who of course never suspected a property worth 30 million Baht was for sale for just 2 million. If somebody despite all this advice goes ahead then take out a small loan with a bank in joint names and add a copy of same with the land office and attached to the Chanote. Even if you do all this... This is Thailand.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, robertson468 said:

I have been married now for nearly fourteen years, bought some land and gave it to my Wife who built a little Resort, which brings in a nice little income to supplement my pensions thank you very much. 

I was married for thirty years and had a house worth 25Mbht, but the wife took it off me in the divorce.

That was back in the UK though, Thai ladies are much more trustworthy.

[CGW]

2 hours ago, robertson468 said:

I have never read so many negative and nonesense posts by idiots who claim that everyone who marries a Thia and buys land will loose it.

I would add "generally written by people that don't have enough money for a legal visa, never mind house or property" ???? 

[ukrules]

I would like to one day learn more about how a foreigner can remortgage a house to a Thai national by securing a lien on it which means it can never be sold unless this lien is paid off in full.

 

The lien being the full value of the property.

 

Can this be done I wonder?

[Nice Boyd]

2 hours ago, robertson468 said:

I have never read so many negative and nonesense posts by idiots who claim that everyone who marries a Thia and buys land will loose it.  Absolute tosh!  I have been married now for nearly fourteen years, bought some land and gave it to my Wife who built a little Resort, which brings in a nice little income to supplement my pensions thank you very much.  Also many I my Friends are married to lovely, honest Thai Ladies and are doing very well thank you very much.  Yes, some have fallen foul of the less than honest Ladies, but sorry, that is up to your judgements and assessment of their character.  If you have doubts clearly don't go down that route.  If you have over several years come to trust her implicitly, then I would recommend that you go for it.  At first I bought land through a Company, but got fed up being whacked for tax each year and after four years, gifted it to my Wife.  She is an absolute treasure and I do trust her totally.  She treats me far better than I deserve (bit of a Grumpy old Git very occasionally) and hey ho nearly 14 years on, we are so enjoying our life together with a very comfortable income and travelling the World and sharing the experience together.  My advice;  don't listen to these "know it alls" and based on your own experience of your knowledge and judgement of your Lady, make your own decision.  Good luck and I hope it works out as well for you as it has for me.

About 2% , you can trust, you got lucky but odds are against you, many friends, hmmmm, learn Thai, so they don’t hoodwink you

[rwill]

It sounds like he knows he can not own the land.  He wants his wife to buy the land and then give him a 30 year lease on it.

[Thaidream]

You as a foreigner cannot own land legally in Thailand. Do not listen to others saying you can form a Company and then own it. If you form a Company for the sole purpose of purchasing land it is illegal  I have bee married to Thais for almost 50 years-  I purchased homes and land  all in  wife's name- I never considered I owned it because I can't.  Some are lucky[others are not.  

[GreasyFingers]

I am not 100% sure on this but assets acquired after marriage are split 50/50 on divorce, so it should be better to buy the land (asset) after marriage.

To learn more about property go to the samuiforsale.com website. Everything is explained in English.

[observer90210]

The best piece of advice you could get on this issue is.....don't !

[khunPer]

On 10/13/2018 at 1:30 PM, bobby2 said:

I have been told do this before we are officially married as this would be better if anything happens in the future or would this not count? I also want to get my property in UK separate.

Yes, you are right, contracts between husband and wife is recommended to be made prior to marriage, as they can be declared void in case of divorce.

 

I live permanently at Samui since 2005, and own a house there. May I kindly recommend that you use one the local law firms with experience in property, to help you through the process.

 

When you buy land, and have it transferred to your girlfriend, you should be able to have an usufruct registered, giving you right to use the land for either up to 30-years, or for life (the latter can exceed 30-years). Furthermore you shall register a superficies, which gives you the right to build on the land, and be owner of the building (your house); you can own a house in Thailand, but you cannot own the land under the house. You can read more about usufruct and superficies here (there's a lot of information about property at that web-site).

 

If you for one-or-other reason cannot make an usufruct, or don't want it, you can make a long-term land lease agreement for up to 30 years. Any land lease longer than three years need to be registered as a servitude, at the Land Office (in Lipa Noi), and a lease cannot exceed 30-years; i.e. there is not such thing as 30+30 years lease, or an option for another 30 years, and it shall not be mention in a lease contract (you can make a separate contract, but that's only binding for the original land owner). Some fee need to be paid for a lease, for example a monthly fee, and a small percentage of tax payed upon registration (used to be 1 percent) of the total 30-year lease sum (so can add up).

 

As you already seem to have cleared that your girlfriend, and future wife, shall be the owner, I won't mention the optional company limited-method.

 

I you want a level of protection for your "investment" – in case it's your money paying for the land – you might be able to have a loan servitude declared on the land. That works like a mortgage servitude, where the land cannot be sold or transferred without the remaining debt has been fully paid.

 

You might not be able to buy an existing house and get ownership separated from the land under the house, unless it's already separate ownership. However, when building a new house, you can separate ownership from the land, but it will not be registered at the land office. Therefore you shall make sure to get and safe-keep the following documentation, as it's your only proof of ownership:

• Superficies agreement that gives you permission to build, and own the building on the land;
• Architect drawings shall be in your name only;
• Building permission from Tessa Ban office (in Nathon) shall be in your name only;
• Any agreements and contracts with building constructor shall be in your name only;
• Any money transfers and payment slips shall carry your name (or transfer from your bank account);
• Whenever possible, any bill shall be written in your name only, but keep all bills, also ongoing expenses and maintenance after the construction is finished.

 

When the house is 80% finished, you can apply for a house number and a Blue House Book at the tessa ban office (that issued the building permission) – it need to within a year from building permission date – and your name can be registered as "master of household", which is not a proof of ownership, but your are the person to approve what Thai-names can be registered in the Blue House Book. For yourself to be registered, you'll need a Yellow House Book for foreigners, which is good for proof of address and like, but little intricately to achieve at Koh Samui.

 

Marriage after Thai law, separate private property and common property, so everything you – or your wife to be – owns before the marriage are private property, whilst anything achieved during a marriage is common property. Prenuptial is fairly new for Thais, but might be useful to make, i.e. let a lawyer draw it for you in both Thai and English language, as documentation of private property in a worst case scenario.

 

However, your property in Britain is not covered by Thai law, but British law; se a separate prenuptial for your British assets is recommended (remember, both English and Thai text). Also making a Last Will should be considered, and again it will be under two separate laws, so one Last Will for Britain (which might include heirs there), and another for Thailand (which might, or might not, include heirs in Britain).

 

A good source for information about marriage and last will, and other legal matters, is the book "Thai Law for Foreigners", which you can find i most English bookstores, or order from Amazon.

 

Wish you good luck with your future house on Samui...

????

[baansgr]

What use is owning a house on land someone else owns, how you gonna move it. Unless it's a condo it's a waste of money in Thailand.  Your house is worthless without the land it's built on which you don't own. 

[baansgr]

6 hours ago, robertson468 said:

I have never read so many negative and nonesense posts by idiots who claim that everyone who marries a Thia and buys land will loose it.  Absolute tosh!  I have been married now for nearly fourteen years, bought some land and gave it to my Wife who built a little Resort, which brings in a nice little income to supplement my pensions thank you very much.  Also many I my Friends are married to lovely, honest Thai Ladies and are doing very well thank you very much.  Yes, some have fallen foul of the less than honest Ladies, but sorry, that is up to your judgements and assessment of their character.  If you have doubts clearly don't go down that route.  If you have over several years come to trust her implicitly, then I would recommend that you go for it.  At first I bought land through a Company, but got fed up being whacked for tax each year and after four years, gifted it to my Wife.  She is an absolute treasure and I do trust her totally.  She treats me far better than I deserve (bit of a Grumpy old Git very occasionally) and hey ho nearly 14 years on, we are so enjoying our life together with a very comfortable income and travelling the World and sharing the experience together.  My advice;  don't listen to these "know it alls" and based on your own experience of your knowledge and judgement of your Lady, make your own decision.  Good luck and I hope it works out as well for you as it has for me.

A friend  of mine is in hospital after trying  to commit suicide because he just lost his life savings to a Thai woman...... it's not tosh,  it's happening  on a daily  basis and people  need to know.  far far more guys get ripped off than the Shangri-la you think you have found. 

[zaZa9]

6 hours ago, robertson468 said:

I have never read so many negative and nonesense posts by idiots who claim that everyone who marries a Thia and buys land will loose it.  Absolute tosh!  I have been married now for nearly fourteen years, bought some land and gave it to my Wife who built a little Resort, which brings in a nice little income to supplement my pensions thank you very much.  Also many I my Friends are married to lovely, honest Thai Ladies and are doing very well thank you very much.  Yes, some have fallen foul of the less than honest Ladies, but sorry, that is up to your judgements and assessment of their character.  If you have doubts clearly don't go down that route.  If you have over several years come to trust her implicitly, then I would recommend that you go for it.  At first I bought land through a Company, but got fed up being whacked for tax each year and after four years, gifted it to my Wife.  She is an absolute treasure and I do trust her totally.  She treats me far better than I deserve (bit of a Grumpy old Git very occasionally) and hey ho nearly 14 years on, we are so enjoying our life together with a very comfortable income and travelling the World and sharing the experience together.  My advice;  don't listen to these "know it alls" and based on your own experience of your knowledge and judgement of your Lady, make your own decision.  Good luck and I hope it works out as well for you as it has for me.

Always enjoy bragging  "grumpy old gits" posts !

Particularly the ones that tell you not to listen to anyone else ... 

Shows me what not to turn into..

So he buys with Company title , thereby indicating he had misgivings as well ... or why not buy land straight up in his 'wonderwomans'  name ?

Then he glosses  over the fact that amongst his friends ( that cant possibly be numerous 555 )  , "some have fallen foul " , then he turns into the thorough  "know it all " , that he labels any  who have already commented!

Finally ''grumpy old git" offers , "Good luck "  when the OP is not seeking 'luck' .. 

He is after  sound advice ...

 

8 years with a wife is a good background , theres no denying that , but 45% of 'marriages' in my country fold ... and this is marriages that have some sort of cultural and nationality 'sameness'.

There would be a lot of posters like myself here , that finished up after 15 or 20 years of marriage back home  as well.

I got 45% of the split in the property settlement and felt a tad hard done by , particularly as my ex never went to work... Im not sure how anyone would feel about receiving nothing !

And this is the scenario  anyone who bought land , or a house and land in his Thai wifes name should think about possibly occuring in the future.

 

The first few posters are talking sense.

And that is to not leave yourself exposed  to anyone , just as 'old git' didnt at first   , no matter  what  he bragged on about later.

The purchase of land for your 'wife' means it is a GIFT .

Somebody , anybody , please show me a thread about lots of Thai women thinking it is NOT !

 

If things sour her family can certainly see you off of living on it ( is building a house on it on the cards - if not what will the OP live in ?)   , just through aggravation ...  if thats what they decide to do  , they can -  what paper you hold is immaterial.

 

If it were me , I wouldnt be completing any more paperwork.

But of course  I would always talk in terms of , "my wife" and "my marriage".

I'd just keep forgetting about that crucial part of being  legally married , as Thais  very often do.

If she loves you , she wont pressure you , or go on and on about it.

 

We all dream of owning a little piece of Paradise , I still do , and even after  11 years I still have to fight off my 'dreaming' that I can. My 'dream' bride back home took more than half I worked for , but here , I have to face the fact that my new dream  common law wife can take it All.

Should I hand it to her.

 

By all means hand your wife lots of the best things in life , including lots of love , which it appears you do , and good for you , but dont hand her , unless you have oodles of money , land and then put a house on it , which for most of us is the most expensive purchase we will  ever make.

 

Of course , if you've already told your wife that  you are going to buy her land on Samui , well then , the dynamics have  already shifted ...

 

 

 

 

 

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, baansgr said:

A friend  of mine is in hospital after trying  to commit suicide because he just lost his life savings to a Thai woman...... it's not tosh,  it's happening  on a daily  basis and people  need to know.  far far more guys get ripped off than the Shangri-la you think you have found. 

I am fairly well-travelled having spent my entire adult life living and working abroad.

 

I have come across more people in Thailand who have been extensively ripped off - either by wives or lawyers or agents or business partners or whatever - than in all other countries I have lived in or visited combined. And I'm only talking about life-changing sums, not simple taxi or bar overcharging. It's quite extraordinary the extent of the dishonesty.

[elgenon]

8 hours ago, khunPer said:

Yes, you are right, contracts between husband and wife is recommended to be made prior to marriage, as they can be declared void in case of divorce.

 

I live permanently at Samui since 2005, and own a house there. May I kindly recommend that you use one the local law firms with experience in property, to help you through the process.

 

When you buy land, and have it transferred to your girlfriend, you should be able to have an usufruct registered, giving you right to use the land for either up to 30-years, or for life (the latter can exceed 30-years). Furthermore you shall register a superficies, which gives you the right to build on the land, and be owner of the building (your house); you can own a house in Thailand, but you cannot own the land under the house. You can read more about usufruct and superficies here (there's a lot of information about property at that web-site).

 

If you for one-or-other reason cannot make an usufruct, or don't want it, you can make a long-term land lease agreement for up to 30 years. Any land lease longer than three years need to be registered as a servitude, at the Land Office (in Lipa Noi), and a lease cannot exceed 30-years; i.e. there is not such thing as 30+30 years lease, or an option for another 30 years, and it shall not be mention in a lease contract (you can make a separate contract, but that's only binding for the original land owner). Some fee need to be paid for a lease, for example a monthly fee, and a small percentage of tax payed upon registration (used to be 1 percent) of the total 30-year lease sum (so can add up).

 

As you already seem to have cleared that your girlfriend, and future wife, shall be the owner, I won't mention the optional company limited-method.

 

I you want a level of protection for your "investment" – in case it's your money paying for the land – you might be able to have a loan servitude declared on the land. That works like a mortgage servitude, where the land cannot be sold or transferred without the remaining debt has been fully paid.

 

You might not be able to buy an existing house and get ownership separated from the land under the house, unless it's already separate ownership. However, when building a new house, you can separate ownership from the land, but it will not be registered at the land office. Therefore you shall make sure to get and safe-keep the following documentation, as it's your only proof of ownership:

• Superficies agreement that gives you permission to build, and own the building on the land;
• Architect drawings shall be in your name only;
• Building permission from Tessa Ban office (in Nathon) shall be in your name only;
• Any agreements and contracts with building constructor shall be in your name only;
• Any money transfers and payment slips shall carry your name (or transfer from your bank account);
• Whenever possible, any bill shall be written in your name only, but keep all bills, also ongoing expenses and maintenance after the construction is finished.

 

When the house is 80% finished, you can apply for a house number and a Blue House Book at the tessa ban office (that issued the building permission) – it need to within a year from building permission date – and your name can be registered as "master of household", which is not a proof of ownership, but your are the person to approve what Thai-names can be registered in the Blue House Book. For yourself to be registered, you'll need a Yellow House Book for foreigners, which is good for proof of address and like, but little intricately to achieve at Koh Samui.

 

Marriage after Thai law, separate private property and common property, so everything you – or your wife to be – owns before the marriage are private property, whilst anything achieved during a marriage is common property. Prenuptial is fairly new for Thais, but might be useful to make, i.e. let a lawyer draw it for you in both Thai and English language, as documentation of private property in a worst case scenario.

 

However, your property in Britain is not covered by Thai law, but British law; se a separate prenuptial for your British assets is recommended (remember, both English and Thai text). Also making a Last Will should be considered, and again it will be under two separate laws, so one Last Will for Britain (which might include heirs there), and another for Thailand (which might, or might not, include heirs in Britain).

 

A good source for information about marriage and last will, and other legal matters, is the book "Thai Law for Foreigners", which you can find i most English bookstores, or order from Amazon.

 

Wish you good luck with your future house on Samui...

????

Wow! Once in awhile there is a real gem posted on Thai Visa. Cheers to you.

[Blackheart1916]

On 10/14/2018 at 2:03 AM, baansgr said:

So many threads and also hundreds of personal friends and acquaintances that have lost everything. There is no way of owning any property in Thailand as a Foreigner other than a condo.  Lease,  usufruct,  company,  kids name.... It's never yours and you are beholding to Thais always. For every one person that is happy there are thousands that regret it.  Married  kids,  together 20 years doesn't matter.  Seen it so many times.  If you are willing to write that money off then go ahead otherwise just rent or buy a condo in your name. Believe me. You won't own a single brick or dust of land

.

"Hundreds of personal friends and acquaintances" have lost everything? Man, you are hanging around the wrong people.

[chicowoodduck]

Go back to Suvarnabhumi Airport and get your brain back....before all is lost!   ????????  Or maybe just put everything your own in your new families name.....it will happen sooner than later....lol

[baansgr]

23 minutes ago, Blackheart1916 said:

"Hundreds of personal friends and acquaintances" have lost everything? Man, you are hanging around the wrong people.

Over a period of 14 years yes it's well in the hundreds. Why are they the wrong people... In fact the majority  have been hard working decent honest people,  and that's the downfall here.  The OP needs to realise he can't own land here... Owning the house is worthless. Relationships break down anywhere in the world, difference  here is the current property  laws are not in Foreigners  favour. You never control the property and always are beholding  to Thais.  Believe me there isn't anyway in Thailand to have full control  over land and house as a Foreigner unless through the investment visa if that's still available. Its a serious nationwide problem in this country resulting in much heartache and even death. Anyone buying land here is a fool.

[Blackheart1916]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Over a period of 14 years yes it's well in the hundreds. Why are they the wrong people... In fact the majority  have been hard working decent honest people,  and that's the downfall here.  The OP needs to realise he can't own land here... Owning the house is worthless. Relationships break down anywhere in the world, difference  here is the current property  laws are not in Foreigners  favour. You never control the property and always are beholding  to Thais.  Believe me there isn't anyway in Thailand to have full control  over land and house as a Foreigner unless through the investment visa if that's still available. Its a serious nationwide problem in this country resulting in much heartache and even death. Anyone buying land here is a fool.

Yes I definitely agree with you on the not being able to own anything. I have always lived by "rent only, and only invest what you can afford to lose." In my time here, I have met many people with successful relationships and lifestyle set ups, the rate of failure is no doubt higher than a lot (or most) other places, due to people being a bit starry eyed and loved up, but happy endings (pardon the pun!) do exist. People need to use their brain a bit more.

[ronaldo0]

Lived here for over 10 years and there are loads of people waiting to take your money from you in one way or another. I have showed land to a friend that was looking to build a house near me and there were 4 groups waiting to see if he bought it so they could get their cut from it . Have heard of 50m bht businesses taken from a guy by his business partner without him knowing until to late and other business partners that suddenly vanished when the business became successful.

Why would you want to buy land and build a house here unless you are getting both cheap as the property market here is flooded with property from new builds to people giving their property away at low prices and great loss to them due to the fact they cant afford to stay or just don't like it here anymore. Buyers market and bargains to be had if you find the right one and haggle. Either way you will never truly own it !

[TonyFernandez]

Almost nothing written in this thread is true (except maybe that you should not transfer ownership of real estate to your future wife regardless of her passport).

DTAC, Thai Air Asia and thousands of other Thai companies are owned by foreign entities through the same ownership structures, which are used by foreigners to own immovable or mobile assets in countries with ownership restrictions such as Thailand, Austria, USA or Japan. 

The OP should contact a reputable law firm in Bangkok and NOT any local law firm on Ko Samui.