New Army chief’s pro-coup stance ahead of polls angers many

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

A coup will only destroy democracy in the long run.

Or not so long of a run.

• "This junta never intended to introduce deep and necessary reforms, nor steer Thailand quickly back to democracy."
• "It has shown it wants only to establish a bureaucracy under military leadership, if not a military state."
• "Despite the junta's claims, the charter and hundreds of other laws and regulations it promulgated and its long-term strategic plan form an outline for future governments to skew towards autocracy, not democracy."

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/this-junta-was-no-good-for-anyone-the-nation

(Published May 22, 2018)

[zzaa09]

5 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Or not so long of a run.

• "This junta never intended to introduce deep and necessary reforms, nor steer Thailand quickly back to democracy."
• "It has shown it wants only to establish a bureaucracy under military leadership, if not a military state."
• "Despite the junta's claims, the charter and hundreds of other laws and regulations it promulgated and its long-term strategic plan form an outline for future governments to skew towards autocracy, not democracy."

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/this-junta-was-no-good-for-anyone-the-nation

(Published May 22, 2018)

And so it goes.

One doesn't have to be to terribly familiar with contemporary Thai history to understand that the theatre remains the same. 

The players may change, here and there, but the stage holds true.

[JAG]

10 hours ago, jayboy said:

There are plenty in the Thai power structure though corrupt and greedy will happily resort to treason if the desired outcome is at risk.

They don't regard it, or recognise it as treason. They believe that they, and their clique ARE Thailand, the military (pre-eminently) and the other agencies of the state exist to serve them, and maintain their hegemony. The 70 odd million others in the country are merely serfs, of no importance. The Bangkok middle class have bought into that, reasoning that loyalty to that group will bring greater rewards than being part of any popular movement seeking to change the status quo.

 

Both groups are most likely in for a very nasty shock sometime - I really don't see that the status quo is sustainable.

[zzaa09]

15 minutes ago, JAG said:

They don't regard it, or recognise it as treason. They believe that they, and their clique ARE Thailand, the military (pre-eminently) and the other agencies of the state exist to serve them, and maintain their hegemony. The 70 odd million others in the country are merely serfs, of no importance. The Bangkok middle class have bought into that, reasoning that loyalty to that group will bring greater rewards than being part of any popular movement seeking to change the status quo.

 

Both groups are most likely in for a very nasty shock sometime - I really don't see that the status quo is sustainable.

In the meanwhile, everyday Thai get on with their free, independent, and reasonably self-sufficient lives. 

The last laugh belongs to them.

[tomta]

9 hours ago, heybruce said:

"All twelve of Thailand's military coups have been deemed legitimate.."

 

Deemed legitimate by whom?  How can something that violates the constitution be legal?  How can any legitimate judicial system not deem a violation of the constitution as illegal?

A question that cannot be asked nor answered given the present dispensation.

[jimmynewbie]

11 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

You confuse the means with the ends.

Coups are usually the last resort after orchestrated street mobs, politicised courts, Sino Thai tycoons and gobbledygook about Thainess and knowing one’s place have not fully achieved the desired outcome - namely the consolidation of wealth and power in a tiny section of the population.

There are plenty in the Thai power structure though corrupt and greedy will happily resort to treason if the desired outcome is at risk.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

THe latest coup was not about  street protests, lots of info available if you use VPN

[jimmynewbie]

9 hours ago, Srikcir said:

All twelve of Thailand's military coups have been deemed legitimate and that should say something about a fundamental flaw in the real power behind the governance of Thailand.

Prayut's coup did violate the 2006 Constitution and organic laws. It is for that fact that the NCPO granted itself unilateral amnesty past, present and future. So how then could the court rule Prayut's coup was still legal?

“It is pertinent that the power of the judiciary works in tandem with military power in order to legitimize and support the power of the coup-makers and the legal system of the coup-making order,”

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/05/30/judiciary-legitimized-coup-supported-junta-thai-lawyers-allege/

Thailand's judiciary must reach beyond the rule of law established by the constitution and penal code to legitimize military coups. This reach must go beyond the sovereignty of the nation by the Thai people. From the same article:

"The rights group said the courts were quick to rule that the coup-makers held sovereignty and were thus legitimate." (my underline emphasis)

Yes but who approved them? clue he is gone now

[jimmynewbie]

9 hours ago, heybruce said:

"All twelve of Thailand's military coups have been deemed legitimate.."

 

Deemed legitimate by whom?  How can something that violates the constitution be legal?  How can any legitimate judicial system not deem a violation of the constitution as illegal?

i think you know the answer to that but can not talk about it

[Artisi]

31 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

In the meanwhile, everyday Thai get on with their free, independent, and reasonably self-sufficient lives. 

The last laugh belongs to them.

Think you are pretty well on the ball there as the vast majority of Thai people don't really give a rats arse about who is in power, why they are in power, and should they stay in power as it make little difference to their existence. 

[heybruce]

12 hours ago, Lupatria said:

That's what they did. Wasn't there a judge ruling the coup was legal?

 

4 minutes ago, jimmynewbie said:

i think you know the answer to that but can not talk about it

The "deemed legitimate" statement was provided in response to a post that asked if a judge had declared the coup legal, which is why my reply addressed the legality of the coup. 

 

I was not considering other sources of "legitimacy".  Of course that can not be discussed here.

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, Artisi said:

Think you are pretty well on the ball there as the vast majority of Thai people don't really give a rats arse about who is in power, why they are in power, and should they stay in power as it make little difference to their existence. 

The majority do care about roads, schools, clinics, etc., the things that give them hope for their children's future.  Thaksin did more to provide that hope than any other PM, which made him unstoppable in elections.  The people accustomed to running Thailand, and ignoring the needs of the majority, could not accept that.  They still can't. 

 

There will never be real democracy in Thailand until the privileged minority accept that Thailand is not theirs to rule as they see fit.  I don't anticipate that happening any time soon.

[jimmynewbie]

8 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Think you are pretty well on the ball there as the vast majority of Thai people don't really give a rats arse about who is in power, why they are in power, and should they stay in power as it make little difference to their existence. 

Take a look at Prayuts new FB page , you are very wrong

[zzaa09]

9 hours ago, Srikcir said:

All twelve of Thailand's military coups have been deemed legitimate and that should say something about a fundamental flaw in the real power behind the governance of Thailand.

Prayut's coup did violate the 2006 Constitution and organic laws. It is for that fact that the NCPO granted itself unilateral amnesty past, present and future. So how then could the court rule Prayut's coup was still legal?

“It is pertinent that the power of the judiciary works in tandem with military power in order to legitimize and support the power of the coup-makers and the legal system of the coup-making order,”

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/05/30/judiciary-legitimized-coup-supported-junta-thai-lawyers-allege/

Thailand's judiciary must reach beyond the rule of law established by the constitution and penal code to legitimize military coups. This reach must go beyond the sovereignty of the nation by the Thai people. From the same article:

"The rights group said the courts were quick to rule that the coup-makers held sovereignty and were thus legitimate." (my underline emphasis)

Twelve coups? 

Within what time frame? 

 

 

Correction: two-and-a-half times that many

 

 

One needs to recheck their research instead of following the given textbook method.

Edited October 19, 2018 by zzaa09

[rkidlad]

9 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Think you are pretty well on the ball there as the vast majority of Thai people don't really give a rats arse about who is in power, why they are in power, and should they stay in power as it make little difference to their existence. 

It makes little difference to their existence because they unknowingly enable it to make little difference. 

 

You make it sound like “this is life in Thailand. If there are three guarantees in life here, it’s death, taxes and little difference to the majority’s existence”. 

 

A very condescending attitude. There are many Thais who want meaningful change. 

 

 

 

 

[rkidlad]

5 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Twelve coups? 

Within what time frame? 

 

 

Correction: two-and-a-half times that many

 

 

One needs to recheck their research instead of following the given textbook method.

Someone needs to practise their reading comprehension. There have been 19 coups (12 of which were successful) 

 

I guess ‘12 coups’ is what the poster was referring to as ‘legitimate’

 

The time frame being since 1932.

[Odysseus123]

13 hours ago, Sonhia said:

After reading the first few lines of the report, I decided to stop because I feel the report is the same predictable old hat dribble with unsurprising content.

 

Thai fickle nature will always prevail and so will the obsession for power plus high so greed, whilst suppressing the masses.

 

I believe Thailand has had more forced military rule coups compared to other countries in recent decades and look at the impact it has created.

 

That's something to be proud of.

 

Not!

 

 

 

Whilst I do not disagree with any of your sentiments..

I would not ,personally, spend a single baht on Isaan.Largest monetary black hole in the universe.

I have absolutely no sympathy for them or anyone else on the planet who excuses their laziness by endlessly repeating "But we are poor.."

I have no sympathy for Thai politics either.

Sorry about that.

[marqus12]

52 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Think you are pretty well on the ball there as the vast majority of Thai people don't really give a rats arse about who is in power, why they are in power, and should they stay in power as it make little difference to their existence. 

You are wrong in almost every post.
Thais remember what Taksin did for them
 

[jimmynewbie]

14 minutes ago, marqus12 said:

You are wrong in almost every post.
Thais remember what Taksin did for them
 

Yes he is wrong makes me think his thai g/f is posting not him lol

 

[zzaa09]

Poor Thais.

Always the victims of Farang misunderstanding.

 

????

[gk10002000]

It simply shows the Thai mentality.  They are unwilling to institute a constitution and lawfully abide by it.  I recall in a conversation one Thai person saying something like "we need a strong leader".  Well, that is because they are unwilling to follow. As nice and pleasant as many Thais are, the underlying black heart of their culture is me, me, me.  They have had so many repressions and dictators they have little faith in what most westerners would consider a proper civilian government, a judicial system that is fair and honest, corruption literally off the scale and an accepted way of life.  It is sad really how under the thumb they are.

[Odysseus123]

15 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

It simply shows the Thai mentality.  They are unwilling to institute a constitution and lawfully abide by it.  I recall in a conversation one Thai person saying something like "we need a strong leader".  Well, that is because they are unwilling to follow. As nice and pleasant as many Thais are, the underlying black heart of their culture is me, me, me.  They have had so many repressions and dictators they have little faith in what most westerners would consider a proper civilian government, a judicial system that is fair and honest, corruption literally off the scale and an accepted way of life.  It is sad really how under the thumb they are.

But they are not just "under the thumb"

 

They are under many thumbs and they are all their own digits and no-one else's and if you really tried  to change it they would ALL start  screaming-you would never hear the end of it.

That is the reality.

No sympathy from me.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Odysseus123

[zzaa09]

37 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

It simply shows the Thai mentality.  They are unwilling to institute a constitution and lawfully abide by it.  I recall in a conversation one Thai person saying something like "we need a strong leader".  Well, that is because they are unwilling to follow. As nice and pleasant as many Thais are, the underlying black heart of their culture is me, me, me.  They have had so many repressions and dictators they have little faith in what most westerners would consider a proper civilian government, a judicial system that is fair and honest, corruption literally off the scale and an accepted way of life.  It is sad really how under the thumb they are.

Perhaps this is what they're comfortable with.

As such decades long conditions aren't really everyday repressive and never have been.

 

Why do you [and most others] insist that they be reflective or resembling of a Farang way? 

Nothing beneficial could come from this. 

[GinBoy2]

I think we need to start a book running.

Bets are being taken on time to the next coup! LOL

[Artisi]

9 hours ago, marqus12 said:

You are wrong in almost every post.
Thais remember what Taksin did for them
 

Besides cheap hospital visits, what else did Thaksin do for them that was beneficial for them long term ?

As for Taksin - he hasn't been around for a long long time. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Artisi

[zzaa09]

8 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I think we need to start a book running.

Bets are being taken on time to the next coup! LOL

I guessing much better than even odds.....

[GinBoy2]

10 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

I guessing much better than even odds.....

I think that goes without saying!

[Srikcir]

10 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

One needs to recheck their research

Yes indeed. I refer to twelve SUCCESSFUL military coups out of the twenty attempted. Failed coups are not the issue.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Srikcir
reword

[Srikcir]

On 10/19/2018 at 3:52 AM, webfact said:

Army chief General Apirat Kongsompong’s reluctance to safeguard democracy prompted anti-junta sentiment among political activists who were united in insisting that coups were unjustifiable.

"Reluctance" depends on who and where one is in Thai society.

 

"Obviously, 'the people' occupy a rather obscure place in this order of things. They cannot - and must not - rely on themselves as it should be in a democratic-constitutional order. Even their political constitutional sovereignty is not their natural right ..."

 

('Peoples Sector Politics' in Thailand: Problems of Democracy in Ousting Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra" by Michael H. Nelson on pg. 429, first published in Working Paper Series No. 87, May 2007, The Southeast Asia Research Centre (SEARC).

https://www.academia.edu/37586898/_Peoples_Sector_Politics_Kanmueang_Phak_Prachachon_in_Thailand_Problems_of_Democracy_in_Ousting_Prime_Minister_Thaksin_Shinawatra._Book_version_in_Democracy_Constitution_and_Human_Rights_eds._Ingwer_Ebsen_Dirk_Ehlers_and_Henning_Glaser._Bangkok_CPG_2018_pp._402-446?auto=download&campaign=weekly_digest

 

[Thailand]

On 10/19/2018 at 6:13 AM, YetAnother said:

his stance is disturbing, his seeming lack of intelligence and tact even more so

PM material.

[Denim]

Clear message. If you chose anyone other than us we will orchestrate street protests again and have another coup.

 

You see,over the years we have fine tuned our method until we now have a state of the art guaranteed  formula to both grab back power and look good at the same time.

 

Well....maybe not good but justified and supported by er....um the people who support us. Us in other words.