Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[KiChakayan]

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I agree.

 

However, it would be very simple to insist that the applicant has transferred the equivalent of at least 480/780K baht — during the year prior to every renewal — to their Thai bank account, That just leaves the problem of proving income for the first extension, which could be satisfied with the current embassy letters/affidavits, or transfer/s in the first 2/3 months equal to at least 2/3 months income.

There would be several ways to ensure that many possibly most retirees have a steady income, for life. But there is the cultural gap, and an obvious reluctance for anything pragmatic within the Thai bureaucracy. However, in all honesty, we should all agree that the 800 Kbahts is one of those pragmatic possibilities.

 

[HHTel]

7 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I agree with you.  Another poster said he saw it and I remembered it too.  A third poster was using stats from 2010 which I imagine are also in error.  I don't know if anyone has up to date info but it seems to me it is necessary in trying to figure the economic impact of this topic. 

Anything since 2010 are estimates.  The figures that have been posted are from the 2010 census.  The next one is 2020.

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, Wake Up said:

While the Thai elite has benefits for sure especially if you travel Swampy. One big drawback is you cannot get a thai drivers license if you have a thai elite visa and I like to drive. You have to have an O-A Visa or work permit or extension of stay to get a thai drivers license. 

I have a 5 year Thai license in my wallet which is sitting in front of me as I type this.

 

I also have a Thai Elite visa. I got the license while using the TE visa.

Edited October 27, 2018 by ukrules

[Suradit69]

28 minutes ago, elviajero said:

the applicant has transferred the equivalent of at least 480/780K baht — during the year prior to every renewal — to their Thai bank accou

Yes, probably easiest way to do it and in some ways easier than the embassy letter or wading through a pile of documents.

 

hopefully they'll accept a total of 780000 for the year rather than looking for 65000 each month. I can foresee miscalculating and ending up with 64999 one month and all hell breaking loose or for some reason 60000 one month and 70000 the next and frenzied calculator activity to follow.

 

Even better if deposits plus balance for 3 months equal to 780000.

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Suradit69

[ukrules]

29 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

That's ridiculous. I don't see how any Gov can hold an Embassy responsible for any individuals actions.

I agree, if they asked for something so dumb and so far removed from any kind of normal reality that no Embassy in its right mind would ever comply then the Embassies would have to stop offering the affected service to their citizens.

 

This is exactly what's playing out right here.

 

I would really like to find out exactly what it was that Thai Immigration demanded to prompt all of this to happen.

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by ukrules

[dontoearth]

21 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

When I first started investigating this about 2 years ago I was informed that Thai BHT bank accounts ARE insured. Not if they are in another currency.

    I heard this too but I was also told by a knowledgeable Thai business owner that foreign customers that made their first deposit from a foreign source, Say a US guy depositing dollars from his US account for his first account in Thailand would have his account labeled US dollars and not be insured.  Same would go for monthly transfers from the US.

[elviajero]

13 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Anything since 2010 are estimates.  The figures that have been posted are from the 2010 census.  The next one is 2020.

There is no way Canucks outnumber Brits or Yanks when there were, at least, 82,000 less in 2010.

[Suradit69]

6 hours ago, RCS said:

Now that Income Affidavits are being discontinued, rather than all this useless speculation about what is required in future as proof of monthly income, why not just go to your local Thai Immigration office and politely ask.  In all probability they are also confused and don't really know.  There may be different requirements in different districts.  But at least if everyone is asking them directly about it they will be motivated to get some clear guidelines and publish them.

"why not just go to your local Thai Immigration office and politely ask."

 

Yes that would ensure getting a clear, unified, definitive response and yes I'm being sarcastic.

 

Amusing how some people feel the need to  append a warning to be polite like they were addressing primary school kids ...  Hmmmmmm. OK, maybe it is necessary.

[anon2736434]

Its all about getting money into the thai banking system. Just think if only 1000 people deposit their 400,000 baht for a marriage visa, thats 400 million baht on the books now just waiting to be used and borrowed against by the banks and customers. 800 million if these were retirement visas. I seriously believe there is a big money problem here that isnt being talked about and this is one easy way to shore up the system.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

The truth will eventually come out simply by watching how they handle this situation at Thai Imm- will they take a hard line or accept documents that clearly verify what they want to know- proving income that is legal is not that hard- many ways to do it.

Could not disagree more.

I can think of 10 income streams that are not easy to verify.

[Jeffrey346]

13 minutes ago, Notagain said:

Its all about getting money into the thai banking system. Just think if only 1000 people deposit their 400,000 baht for a marriage visa, thats 400 million baht on the books now just waiting to be used and borrowed against by the banks and customers. 800 million if these were retirement visas. I seriously believe there is a big money problem here that isnt being talked about and this is one easy way to shore up the system.

I would worry too much about it. Thailand is 12th in the world and holds more than 200 million US $$$ as reserves.

Not too shabby considering Singapore is 11th and Germany 13th.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-exchange_reserves

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Could not disagree more.

I can think of 10 income streams that are not easy to verify.

I agree, especially if you are doing share trading and living off dividends etc. 

[chama]

The format provided by the Consulate was familiar to the Thai reviewers. Unless they provide a form to be used by the applicant they will be bombarded with all kinds of documents. Some will be easy to decipher for non-English (or any other language) and others will not, by no fault of the applicant. Which means some people who have been in Thailand for many years will be asked (forced) to leave, and others hoping to move to Thailand will be told to wait for an endless review. 

 

If a generic form won't work perhaps a requirement to show monthly band statements demonstrating a required minimum balance? 

 

Or...is the real intent to reduce the number of foreigners living in the Kingdom?

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Yes how does someone like your self who calls just about anybody in Thai officialdom including "Biggest Joke is the most corrupt of them all," corrupt and wanting to turn Immigration into a bribery machine continue to live here?

 

Where is your self-esteem?

 

Anytime someone who does not understand a post, asks why don't we leave, it makes one stop and reflect on the lack of thought put into the reply. We complain for valid reasons. The fact that the country is run by a corrupt regime, does not mean we want to leave. Where we come from we criticize and call out people for their crimes. Same here. Part of the reason for this forum is to tell it like we see it. Otherwise we might as well just lay down and die. 

 

If you do not think this regime or biggest joke are corrupt, then God bless you. I wish I had a pair of your rose tinted glasses. 

[DogNo1]

It seems to be assumed that for someone applying for an extension of stay based on retirement without the notarized affidavit of income from an embassy, documents in English proving a retirement income of 65,000 or more per month will no longer be accepted and that the retirement income will now need to be remitted to a bank in Thailand, not a bank in the home country.  Where is the evidence for this change in policy?  

[jmd8800]

I've been out of the country for a month and I really don't want to go through 67 pages on this topic again.

 

My question is: Do you really need an income letter if you can show tax returns? 1099-Rs, Social Security letters, deposits to US bank?

 

Before I left, Chiang Mai was requiring the income affidavit plus some sort of proof. So I don't see this as the end of the world for those who have documentation.

 

Personally I think Thai Immigration has been changing a lot over the last 3 or so years. No more multiple entry tourist visas from a neighboring country, requiring proof of 20,000THB is entering on tourist visa, Income and or job requirements for multiple entry tourist visa that is applied for in your own country not a neighboring country to Thailand and more. I see a pattern here.

 

I am also thinking that in the future (maybe 5 to years from now) Thailand might require that the 800,000THB (or more) be placed in a bond account for a retirement visa. You would deposit the money when the retirement visa is issued and withdraw it when you give up the retirement visa. There are good and bad points to this. But with something like this you wouldn't have to file an extension every year. Just report to immigration that you are alive and living at the same address.

 

 

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

It seems to be assumed that for someone applying for an extension of stay based on retirement without the notarized affidavit of income from an embassy, documents in English proving a retirement income of 65,000 or more per month will no longer be accepted and that the retirement income will now need to be remitted to a bank in Thailand, not a bank in the home country.  Where is the evidence for this change in policy?  

That right, there is no evidence or a change in policy, there is however a lot of speculation. 

[HAL9000]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Sounds like he has been using the bank method not the income method. The bank method has never required an embassy letter!

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

No. That's incorrect. He was using the income method.

[HAL9000]

21 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Are you sure they were not showing 800K (400K if married to a Thai) in the bank?  This sounds like the "money-in-the-bank" method - not the "income" method.

No. This person was using the income method.

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

My question is: Do you really need an income letter if you can show tax returns? 1099-Rs, Social Security letters, deposits to US bank?

Yes, at the moment you need an income letter, that is the only thing Thai immigration currently accepts.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, HAL9000 said:

No. This person was using the income method.

So his balance was UNDER 800K at time of application? 

[HAL9000]

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So his balance was UNDER 800K at time of application? 

Correct

[RoyDee]

39 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

It seems to be assumed that for someone applying for an extension of stay based on retirement without the notarized affidavit of income from an embassy, documents in English proving a retirement income of 65,000 or more per month will no longer be accepted and that the retirement income will now need to be remitted to a bank in Thailand, not a bank in the home country.  Where is the evidence for this change in policy?  

Thai Immigration are in committee about all that. Wait for an official announcement from them. Speculation by we expats  is useless. Just enjoy your Saturday night !

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, HAL9000 said:

Correct

OK. A highly unusual report. 

[blackhorse]

TI don't need to change a thing. Why are people assuming they will?

So far it appears they have gone after the 2 biggest western embassies with the most expats and through sheer numbers have the highest percentage of scammers and the associated medical costs through no insurance

No other embassy has come forward and why should immigration chase them all? Is it because they should be "fair" about it? TIT they can do what they want.

[Sheryl]

42 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

It seems to be assumed that for someone applying for an extension of stay based on retirement without the notarized affidavit of income from an embassy, documents in English proving a retirement income of 65,000 or more per month will no longer be accepted and that the retirement income will now need to be remitted to a bank in Thailand, not a bank in the home country.  Where is the evidence for this change in policy?  

There is none, in fact to the contrary the law still states income of 65K is acceptable and the websites of both  Embassies said likewise.

 

There is complete uncertainty though as to how that is to be documented now that Embassies will not longer provide a letter, which was the previous method (and is still listed on imm documents as a requirement).

 

There is also concern that there might be a new requirement that the full 65K income actually be remitted to a Thai bank, which was not previously the case (though it might have been the intention/expectation of the law, it was never explicit or enforced) and it seems many people with that level of income do not bring the full amount into the country currently and have various reasons for preferring not to.

 

If the money does have to come into Thailand to "count" towards the required income, it is also unclear if the 65K has to be every month or an average, as many people currently bring in varying amounts at varying intervals according to need.

 

It is also the case that there have been people, number unknown, who have used the income method but do not in fact have that much income. This was easily done in the case of the US and Australian Embassies as neitherchecked documents before providing the letter. These people have reason to be seriously worried now, and this sort of thing may be what got TI concerned in the first place.

 

So it is a mix of people no longer being able to get the retirement extension because they do not actually have the required funds (and some of them have been living here a long time, have families here etc so it is no small matter if they have to leave) and people who meet the requirements but are worried about what hoops they may have to go through to document that to Immigration's satisfaction now that their Embassy no longer provides an income affadavit.

 

Given all that uncertainty people are looking towards the 800K alternative since that at least is clear and the documentation simple.

 

If it proves to be the case that those on income method will be required to show 65k/mo coming into a Thai bank account then the 800K method becomes even more attractive, the amounts are almost the same (65 * 12= 780) but in the 800K method it is only in the first year that one would have to bring that amount into the country, in all subsequent years one would only need to bring in enough to top the balance back up to 800K, so for those whose in-country costs are less than 65/mo and who need or want to keep some of their income in their home country, it's the better choice, provided of course they can front the initial 800K.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Dale75 said:

f you really want to live in Thailand is it such a threat that TIO would like you to demonstrate this by actually putting some money into the country?
I could go on but I'll call a halt here.

First came about 50 years ago- I figured I have put about 50 Million Baht into Thailand over that period- yet I still have to comply with annual extensions of stay- 90 day reports and being stopped to show if I am legal. Do tell- how much more shall I have to put into Thailand?

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

TI don't need to change a thing. Why are people assuming they will?

 

Because their current list of documentation requirements for extsnion using the income method states an Embassy letter is required, and 2 major Embassies no longer provide those letters and apparently discussed this ahead of time with TI and were assurred that people would still be able to get extensions using the income method, but there has been no announcement of the process yet.

[zydeco]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

IAT is just an international format used by ACH.  The transfer is still via the ACH system.

How can you tell if you are receiving your deposit to Bangkok Bank in IAT?  

[Pattaya46]

53 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

Personally I think Thai Immigration has been changing a lot over the last 3 or so years. No more multiple entry tourist visas from a neighboring country, requiring proof of 20,000THB is entering on tourist visa, Income and or job requirements for multiple entry tourist visa that is applied for in your own country not a neighboring country to Thailand and more. I see a pattern here.

Except that Thai Immigration has NOTHING to do with Visa and Visa rules ! 

Visa are managed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs