Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I just confirmed with my US bank that a single transfer to my Thai Bank would cost $45.  So the 65,000 Baht per month transfer scheme would cost me $540 per year.  Therefore, if my Dec Extension is not approved then as they say adios.  

First, there are much less-expensive ways to get money here than $45 (transferwise, etc - assuming these types of xfers have the proper "code" on one's bank-statement - assuming that is what immigration will look for - and etc we don't know yet).

 

We have to wait and see how immigration treats incoming xfers - "only monthly" or "averaged" over a period of time.  While I only need 40K/mo to meet the "married to a Thai" requirement, I don't send this precise amount monthly - some months more, then don't need more the next mo, etc.

[kensisaket]

53 minutes ago, gaviny said:

True that but I think they are valuable to the Thai's economy by doing the jobs even the Thais are reluctant to do.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Manual labor is not in the vocabulary of the majority of millennials.  

[JackThompson]

Just now, kensisaket said:

Manual labor is not in the vocabulary of the majority of millennials.  

Because they've never seen a time when it paid a middle-class wage. 

 

I know many Thais who worked construction overseas for good money (Singapore, Middle-East, etc), but would never attempt to compete with what Burmese/Cambodians will do it for in Thailand.  They are locked-out of their trade by foreign workers, so live as subsistence-farmers, instead.

 

Granted, subsistence-farmer is a more dignified existence than "homeless man" in the USA - which is how hundreds of thousands of our former construction workers exist, now.

[marcusarelus]

29 minutes ago, vcpeters said:

So what is the solution? I see this as a good decision. Last time I got my retirement Visa Korat Immigration wanted to see my proof of income so why go to US just to pay money for them to certify a document they never even look at? I could tell the USA anything. Thailand wants to see proof of income. According to following instruction, I don't see any requirement by Thais to show certification document from US Embassy - they want to see an original certificate of my social security and pension yearly income :

 

Required Documents: (Required 2 sets; 1 original and 1 copy)

1. Your actual Passport or Travel Document. (Passport or Travel Document must be valid for at least 18 months    and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).
2. Visa application form completely filled out (black and blue ink only) (Download)
3. Addition Application form (Download)
4. Medical certificate showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14(B.E. 2535) certificate shall be valid for not more than three months (Download)
5. Two photo’s passport-size photographs (2″x2″) (photocopy or photo taken from Photostat will not be accepted). Photographs must have a light color background with a full- face view of the person without wearing a hat or dark glasses. Photos must be taken within 6 months.
6. Bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required
7.  Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification have to valid for not more than three months and must be issued from a state or Federal Bureau of Investigation only. Online criminal record without authorizer’s signature is unacceptable )

 

If I'm missing something please advise but please let's concentrate on a viable solution.

 

 

That is not a list for a retirement extension is it?

[zydeco]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Seems easier to call Bangkok Bank and ask for the correct department in NYC or get the information here than change banks.  There are long threads about on Thai Visa.

Got a link.  I can't find them. Which Forum?  

[gaviny]

Manual labor is not in the vocabulary of the majority of millennials.  

And as Jack Thompson stated the big business prefers having foreign labourers as they are cheaper as is the case where I live and witnessed.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[kensisaket]

2 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Got a link.  I can't find them. Which Forum?  

I'm not sure what the original question was; but, if you are talking about having direct deposit to Bangkok Bank all you need is your account number.  If you are from the U.S. you can go to the social security website and set up the account there using your account number and the Bangkok Bank ABA/Swift number. 

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, ryane66 said:

I read a report from Thailand Immigration recently. Number 1 retirees was Canada, number 2 was Dutch. Don't remember 3 or 4 but wasn't UK or USA.

 

That's a surprise. I haven't met any Dutch.

 

Could you please provide the link so that I can read it?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by EricTh

[vcpeters]

Certificate is an official document attesting a certain fact, in particular.

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Got a link.  I can't find them. Which Forum?  

banking and home country

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, kensisaket said:

I'm not sure what the original question was; but, if you are talking about having direct deposit to Bangkok Bank all you need is your account number.  If you are from the U.S. you can go to the social security website and set up the account there using your account number and the Bangkok Bank ABA/Swift number. 

IAT format.  Bangkok bank NYC asks for account number and amount of last deposit in dollars and time and date. 

[wgdanson]

16 hours ago, blackhorse said:

16 hours ago, pookiki said:

Ubonjoe - Isn't it still an issue as to what documents the Thai immigration will find acceptable to verify income once the letters from the embassies are no longer accepted?

Why are the letters no longer accepted? No mention of this anywhere.

The letters would be accepted by Immigration IF YOU CAN GET ONE.

[wgdanson]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Have you ever tried to open a foreign currency account?

Yes, got one and use it all the time for transfers from UK, free with First Direct. Then exchange what you need as and when you need it. Works a treat.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

The letters would be accepted by Immigration IF YOU CAN GET ONE.

They are required so they are definitely accepted. However, as has always been the case, immigration may demand to see financial documents to back up the income claim stated in the letter. 

[Pib]

45 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The bureau announced on its website on Monday that there were 1.6 million foreigners living in Thailand between January and August.

 

Canadians were the biggest group – 9,872 migrants – followed by 9,583 Dutch people, 9,566 Bangladeshis and 9,483 Italians.

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061128-no-visa-lapsed-visa-means-deportation-within-a-month-prawit/?tab=comments#comment-13438710

Badly written article with bad stats....see below post #53.  

 

[EVENKEEL]

23 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Spending around 6 weeks in the USA for no other reason than to get a visa even if every 2 years is not 'simply' even if I'm going to the USA anyway. My USA trips are 2-3 weeks and 6 weeks is way-y-y to long.

And for those of us who regularly visit the US yearly, me for seeing family and taking care of rentals a 2 day, one night stay in Hollywood isn't bad. 

[wgdanson]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They are required so they are definitely accepted. However, as has always been the case, immigration may demand to see financial documents to back up the income claim stated in the letter. 

And after Jan 1st where do you get your letter from?

[zydeco]

9 minutes ago, kensisaket said:

I'm not sure what the original question was; but, if you are talking about having direct deposit to Bangkok Bank all you need is your account number.  If you are from the U.S. you can go to the social security website and set up the account there using your account number and the Bangkok Bank ABA/Swift number. 

No it referred to Bangkok Bank's notification that as of 1 April they would no longer process ACH deposits in the US unless the sending institution provided additional information.  I got the notice from my Bangkok Bank office last week. Even US Social Security in Manila didn't know about the change, when I forwarded it to them.

[Jingthing]

Just now, wgdanson said:

And after Jan 1st where do you get your letter from?

If you're from the UK or US you don't get a letter after that.

That's the big news.

After that your ONLY sure bet is to use the money in the bank method, seasoned.

As of this date Thailand immigration has announced NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE for doing an INCOME BASED application other than using the REQUIRED letter.

Hopefully, that will change, but life doesn't run on hopes and wishes.

Cheers.

[ubonjoe]

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Another off topic post has been removed. The is a serious topic and there is no room for jokes or other nonsense.

From now on there will be no notice of removals. I your post disappears you can assume that you stepped over the line.

 

 

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Just a reminder posts are being removed without notice and that includes replies to removed posts.

 

And another reminder.

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

Badly written article with bad stats....see below post #53.  

 

I agree with you.  Another poster said he saw it and I remembered it too.  A third poster was using stats from 2010 which I imagine are also in error.  I don't know if anyone has up to date info but it seems to me it is necessary in trying to figure the economic impact of this topic. 

[galt67]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

If you're from the UK or US you don't get a letter after that.

That's the big news.

After that your ONLY sure bet is to use the money in the bank method, seasoned.

As of this date Thailand immigration has announced NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE for doing an INCOME BASED application other than using the REQUIRED letter.

Hopefully, that will change, but life doesn't run on hopes and wishes.

Cheers.

2

This sums it up: life doesn't run on hopes and wishes.

 

It seems there four, certain options for most based on today's information:

1) Do NOT stay in LOS 'long-term'

2) O-A Visa from US (home country)

3) Purchase a Thai Elite Visa

4) 400/800k TH bank deposit

 

Regarding the 'income option', much is speculation about requirements thus is NOT a 'certain' method.

 

Choose one of the four, IMO.

 

 

[ThaidDown]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I agree with you.  Another poster said he saw it and I remembered it too.  A third poster was using stats from 2010 which I imagine are also in error.  I don't know if anyone has up to date info but it seems to me it is necessary in trying to figure the economic impact of this topic. 

The 2010 figures quoted were taken from the countrywide census taken in that year so should have some validity as to the situation in that year. How they have changed in the last eight years anyone's guess.

 

[galt67]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I agree with you.  Another poster said he saw it and I remembered it too.  A third poster was using stats from 2010 which I imagine are also in error.  I don't know if anyone has up to date info but it seems to me it is necessary in trying to figure the economic impact of this topic. 

1

I've looked at those stats (chart) from 2010 and don't perceive any errors...?

 

What am I missing?

 

I'm unaware of any surge in foreign retirees here but instead, arguably, a decrease. If true, the expats have less economic influence than before.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by galt67
edit

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

And after Jan 1st where do you get your letter from?

If you're a Brit you get a letter, no later than 12th December submission, from the BE that is valid for 6 months by IM rules. After that we will have to wait and see whether TI would offer a new income option as evidence of financial requirements being met. 

 

In my case, I've written a letter to the FCO detailing my situation and stating my disappointment in the UK government for not supporting their citizens in Thailand. if every affected Brit did that (i.e relying on income owing to lack of a 800k bank deposit), it could provoke an enquiry into why the income letter withdrawal was authorised.

 

Or ships could fly...

[Joe Mcseismic]

2 hours ago, Phil90 said:

It's a super scummy move because as a previous poster stated, a lot of elderly people won't make the proper arrangements to ensure that the money is returned to their heirs when they die.  It's also way more money than anybody actually needs to live very comfortably in Thailand.  The average annual Thai household income is only a little over $3,000.  Why should an single retired person need 7 times more income just to prove they can "support themselves" than an average "Thai household".  Of course it's a scummy scam like many things in Thailand. Even if you expect a much higher standard of living you can easily get by comfortably, even as a couple on 1/2 - 2/3 of that income requirement.

You talk as if you think Westerners have a right to live here. They don't.

Quite understandably, if the Thai government allows aliens to live in their country, they want something in return. Money.

And not just the same money that their own citizens can live on. They don't want cheap non-citizens, they want quality. The same type of quality when they mention "quality tourists". i.e affluent.

This in not unique to Thailand, other countries in SE Asia also stipulate the minimum amount that must be deposited in their country. Some more, some less.

If it helps your comprehension, think of retiring in Thailand as a Thai governmental backed business.

[JLCrab]

15 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

And for those of us who regularly visit the US yearly, me for seeing family and taking care of rentals a 2 day, one night stay in Hollywood isn't bad. 

Well if you get next day service in Los Angeles after putting together all the docs that's fine. This is from Washington DC O-A page:

 

Processing time : (with completed documents)
In person   5 business days
By mail      minimum 15 business days

 

But it seems that the Thai Elite may be the way to go if you value your being able to live reasonably effortlessly in Thailand to be worth about US$ 3000 per year and no having to stay with the rellies (Aussie-speak)

 

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, stephenterry said:

If you're a Brit you get a letter, no later than 12th December submission, from the BE that is valid for 6 months by IM rules. After that we will have to wait and see whether TI would offer a new income option as evidence of financial requirements being met. 

 

In my case, I've written a letter to the FCO detailing my situation and stating my disappointment in the UK government for not supporting their citizens in Thailand. if every affected Brit did that (i.e relying on income owing to lack of a 800k bank deposit), it could provoke an enquiry into why the income letter withdrawal was authorised.

 

Or ships could fly...

Was the letter not withdrawn because the Embassies could not or would not VERIFY that the incomes stated were true. 

I have also written to Mr Hunt @ FCO, my MP and the British Embassy expressing my disgust.

[sniggie]

1 hour ago, watso63 said:

So refreshing to see a nation's Immigration Bureau doing things properly in the interests of its own citizen's. When they prosecute corrupt agencies and IO's then that will convince me they are deadly serious. What's the big deal having the finances in the bank for the 2/3 months prior to application? Been doing it for the past 6 years, no problem. If it's a problem then these people shouldn't be here. It really isn't Thailand's concern. For those that have been supporting families by breaking the law then it looks like they will have to stump up the cash or go and find work.

As I said in a previous comment on another thread for a lot of people the issue is cost, not the availability of the funds. In my case I live on my not inconsiderable pension. I have around 100K GBP in the UK (that's around 130K of your $s all in a share portfolio. In there straitened times this gives me around 5K dividents each year (not allowing for capital growth).  To transfer 20K GBP across would mean losing about 1K of those dividends (about 42K THB).  That's quote a lot of Tesco shopping trips or about 20 good meals out! 

 

Likewise a lot of us will have worked through the various methods of transferring money into Thailand for monthly expenditure and finally settled on Transferwise (or similar operations). To have to return to using banks at their higher charge rates to satisfy a monthly requirement (should such a system remain available in the future) would grate.

 

I'm sure there will be people who would say "you've got lots of money, what's your problem?"   Well, people of my generation haven't always been well off and certainly I have been brought up to take care of my money and always look for the best value. If it becomes impossible to obtain a retirement extension by virtue of the value of my pensions paid into my UK bank (a system that has worked well for me for the last 8 years) then it will cost me more money.  If I have to do it, I will, as I have a family here but I will resent having to do it.   

[stephenterry]

This is my FCO letter. Feel free to copy it according to your situation.

 

I understand this was introduced following a FCO audit recommendation, revealed by a BE officer recently.  Should this be the case, I would add my disappointment to probably many others who find themselves unsupported by the UK government in this matter.

 

To meet Thai immigration financial requirements, it is necessary to have 800k baht seasoned for 3 months in a Thai bank deposit account or verification of a monthly income equating to 65k baht, provided by an income letter from the British Embassy (in my case).

 

I am one xx year-old citizen who does not possess 800k in a Thai bank account, but I do meet the income financial requirements by forwarding  my annual UK tax return (containing my pension amounts) completed by my accountancy firm, to the BE.

 

Thai immigation accept this letter - and in my ten years experience  all they do is to convert my pension amount from £ into Thai baht on the day of processing.  

 

i realise austerity and cost-cutting is today's UK politics for overseas consulates, however the consequences of this audit recommendation taken on board by the BE in Bangkok will adversely affect the lives of many retirees in Thailand who are in a similar situation as I am, and have families to support. 

 

I ask you to reconsider reintroducing this facility - if need be, by increasing the price of the letter to cover the additional consular costs. I am sure the ingenuity of the English language (as used in the PM's proposed Brexit deal) could produce a (disclaimer?) letter to satisfy both the UK and Thai immigration.

 

Yours sincerely,