Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[JLCrab]

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

Whatever option TI provides to replace/update the current monthly income with embassy letter option will surely have weaknesses.  Any option will have it pros...cons....strengths....weaknesses and only TI can determine what it can live with.

Yes there could be a big improvement at least for Americans. Before you could not have a legitimate 65K baht per month income but, to get a one year extension, you had to make a false sworn statement to get it. Based on a few of the previous posts, you could still not have a 65K baht per month legitimate income and get an extension, but you won't have to make a false sworn statement to do so.

[mogandave]

Exactly my point- they won't care and  one can rotate funds easily and never have the income which would eventually lead to the required total..  The 3 Embassies system that apparently is being rejected was more a 'proof' of total income then  what they may adopt. 
I find it an absurd Kabuki Dance and totally shows a complete lack of communication between Embassies that are supposed to be experts in diplomacy and a Thai Imm that doesn't understand how to deal with foreign embassies or lack an understanding of what  income verification actually means.

How was the embassy letter more of a proof than money transfers? If you’d lie on one you’d cheat on the other.

What I find odd it all the attacks made on embassies and immigration without having the slightest idea what’s going on.

[Thaidream]

13 minutes ago, mogandave said:

How was the embassy letter more of a proof than money transfers? If you’d lie on one you’d cheat on the other.

What I find odd it all the attacks made on embassies and immigration without having the slightest idea what’s going on.

First of all I am not attacking  the Embassies or Thai Imm- I am merely pointing out that at least the BE asked for some documentation while the US and Aussie Embassies made the applicant swear an Oath which made them  subject to a penalty of prison if caught out.\\The proposed  monthly deposit into a Thai bank via transfer is much more subject to fraud than if they had simply accepted the Embassy letters- with It's faults.  If the Thai Imm doesn't care why should I. I will simply follow what they propose. Just don't try and tell me- it will prove Income source beyond doubt anymore than using an agent proves  it.  Lots of fault all round- that we the applicant will have to like with and which we had no  input one way or the other.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Thaidream

[mogandave]

First of all I am not attacking  the Embassies or Thai Imm- I am merely pointing out that at least the BE asked for some documentation while the US and Aussie Embassies made the applicant swear an Oath which made them  subject to a penalty of prison if caught out.\\The proposed  monthly deposit into a Thai bank via transfer is much more subject to fraud than if they had simply accepted the Embassy letters- with It's faults.  If the Thai Imm doesn't care why should I. I will simply follow what they propose. Just don't try and tell me- it will prove Income source beyond doubt anymore than using an agent proves  it.  Lots of fault all round- that we the applicant will have to like with and which we had no  input one way or the other.

To be clear, I did no accuse you of attacking anyone, is it your position that no one in the thread has attacked the embassies and or immigration?

Why is it you know with such certainty that what will ultimately be proposed will be much more subject to fraud than mearly swearing under penalty of perjury? As far as Thai immigration goes, I imagine it would be much easier for them to convict one for fraud using Thai banks than for them to convict a US citizen for committing perjury on US soil.

[HHTel]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

British embassy announced that they won’t comply with the new requirements

Can't comply!

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, HHTel said:

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

British embassy announced that they won’t comply with the new requirements

Can't comply!

They could, but it wouldn’t be practical for them to do so given the amount of time and extra work involved.

[garyk]

6 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

If my extension is denied(for whatever reason) I am considering this:  Foreigners that receive a lifetime retirement or pension from a foreign government, international agency or private enterprise, who enter Panama to live and have sufficient economic means to cover all of their living expenses for themselves and their dependents, will be able to request the Panama Pensioner Visa.  The income or monthly pension must not be less than One Thousand US Dollars (US$1,000) and should be granted to the applicant for life.

I figure I should research other options just in case?   

Lots of places closer to home that will welcome you for sure. 1600 bucks / month and you can start the residency visa for Mexico.

Just a shame, Thailand is one of the cheapest places in the world to live, and Thailand is one of the hardest places to get a long stay visa. The visa rules here are ridiculous IMO.

 

[Mike Teavee]

8 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Maybe but that way none of the money could actually originate ex-Thailand

 

But as long as the Thai IMM folks realize it's possible to set up a scheme whereby actually zero money is brought in each month that originated ex-Thai, if it doesn't bother them, it's not going to bother me.

"Income" originating in Thailand could just as easily be sent overseas & brought back in again to make it seem like it was coming in from abroad.

 

 

[JLCrab]

2 hours ago, garyk said:

Lots of places closer to home that will welcome you for sure. 1600 bucks / month and you can start the residency visa for Mexico.

Mexico? MEXICO?? As per Steely Dan --

 

Well, I hear the whistle but I can't go, I'm gonna
Take her down to Mexico, she said:

Oh no! Guadalajara won't do.

 

At least for Americans, one of the biggest disadvantages to living in Thailand is that it isn't close to home.

And, at least for Americans, one of the biggest advantages to living in Thailand is that it isn't close to home.

Edited November 6, 2018 by JLCrab

[John7777]

Lots of places in the world for retirees.  Taxes can play a big role.  Has ante lookpoed into Eastern Europe?

[Joe Mcseismic]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That would be my guess too. However, they would be wise to keep it.  Nobody is going to have exactly 65K coming in monthly just based on exchange rates alone!

Why? Just send a little bit more to cover the exchange rate risk. Another $20 should do it.

[Joe Mcseismic]

11 hours ago, Thaidream said:

While it can be done monthly- the reason is to prove one actually has the income-  there are much better ways  to actually prove the income exists-  To me it's strange that Thai Imm wants to reject the current letter system and replace it with something that is much less as far as verification than what it had. They apparently don't want to take the time themselves to verify the income so apparently they never really cared whether you had it or not.

Nope. Nothing like hard cash in a Thai bank account with bank letters, for simplicity of verification.

[Larryst]

18 hours ago, racyrick said:

Did you show monthly deposits in a Thai bank?

No. I should the bank statement from the states.

[garyk]

4 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Mexico? MEXICO?? As per Steely Dan --

 

Well, I hear the whistle but I can't go, I'm gonna
Take her down to Mexico, she said:

Oh no! Guadalajara won't do.

 

At least for Americans, one of the biggest disadvantages to living in Thailand is that it isn't close to home.

And, at least for Americans, one of the biggest advantages to living in Thailand is that it isn't close to home.

Haha, never thought of it that way.

I still have some old Steely Dan albums back home.

Last time I was home I was debating on picking up a turntable to play my old collection of plastic.. ????

Edited November 7, 2018 by garyk

[hwaetu Go]

Can I have rent income and family income etc. totaling 65K baht (not pension) sent through the Bangkok Bank in US to Thailand to establish the monthly income requirement? How would I arrange for funds to enter BKK bank officially from the US? Thanks 

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, hwaetu Go said:

Can I have rent income and family income etc. totaling 65K baht (not pension) sent through the Bangkok Bank in US to Thailand to establish the monthly income requirement? How would I arrange for funds to enter BKK bank officially from the US? Thanks 

We don’t know what is going to be acceptable. You will need to wait for an official announcement from immigration.

[mogandave]

Can I have rent income and family income etc. totaling 65K baht (not pension) sent through the Bangkok Bank in US to Thailand to establish the monthly income requirement? How would I arrange for funds to enter BKK bank officially from the US? Thanks 

Maybe

[onera1961]

16 hours ago, Pib said:

At least with Transferwise there no "automatic" per month transfer capability...must do a manual transfer each time.   

Correct. There is no automatic option for monthly remittances. I offered them my services (for a fee) for writing an app using their API but they refused and told me they could not do that due to legal restrictions. 

[onera1961]

49 minutes ago, hwaetu Go said:

Can I have rent income and family income etc. totaling 65K baht (not pension) sent through the Bangkok Bank in US to Thailand to establish the monthly income requirement? How would I arrange for funds to enter BKK bank officially from the US? Thanks 

When TI has not published any directives, how do you think people would know? 

[mogandave]

When TI has not published any directives, how do you think...

And therein lies the rub...

[usacb500biker]

Secret Information , Latests Info from Immingration DOC'S ....Retirees over 60, Only need 200,000B in the bank and 20,000B a month income ????   True ????  I  74....   most of us ate over 60 ....

[mogandave]

Secret Information , Latests Info from Immingration DOC'S ....Retirees over 60, Only need 200,000B in the bank and 20,000B a month income ????   True ????  I  74....   most of us ate over 60 ....

Perhaps a definite maybe. Or not...

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, usacb500biker said:

Secret Information , Latests Info from Immingration DOC'S ....Retirees over 60, Only need 200,000B in the bank and 20,000B a month income ????   True ????  I  74....   most of us ate over 60 ....

No

That is for those that are grandfathered that were on extensions of stay in October of 1998.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, usacb500biker said:

Secret Information , Latests Info from Immingration DOC'S ....Retirees over 60, Only need 200,000B in the bank and 20,000B a month income ????   True ????  I  74....   most of us ate over 60 ....

Get a new secret info source.   What you are talking about has been a Thai immigration policy for years and only applies to those who entered Thailand before 21 Oct 1998 and have been consecutively allowed to stay in the kingdom.   Or said another way, only applies to certain grandfathered individuals. See below Thai immigration webpage/snapshot.

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

We don’t know what is going to be acceptable. You will need to wait for an official announcement from immigration.

We may be waiting an awfully long time for there to be a clear announcement that satisfactorily answers every question that people have. (Never?) It wouldn't surprise me at all if they don't specify about such things about what kind of income is acceptable and leave it up to officers to make determinations on the spot. Actually if the rule does turn out to be based on monthly 65K transfers there is no compelling reason for them to even talk about such details. From their point of view anyway. Keep it simple. But that would still leave some of the usual ambiguity that your specific officer might ask questions.

 

This is one reason I have been mentioning several times already -- at the very least Thai immigration should consider creating a way for people getting lifetime GOVERNMENT PENSION income streams to get a certificate good for life for that and also of course preserve the combo method. (Without need for import of said pensions because they would proven by the lifetime certificate.)

It's so obvious -- most other nations that have retirement programs treat GOVERNMENT PENSIONS in a special way and don't make people "prove" it to them annually. 

Good morning Vietnam? 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Jingthing

[Pib]

I will not be surprised if the individual immigration offices do not get any updated policy from HQ TI until early next year.  I'm sure the offices have already asked HQ but have probably been told the situation is under review....no change in current policy....we'll let you know once we complete our review if there will be a policy change.   And hopefully part of that review is obtaining feedback & recommendations from immigration offices across Thailand.

 

In the interim the individual offices would just "wing it" but I expect most would follow the current policies which means if a person is using the monthly income option then they'll will need an embassy income letter which still may be available from many embassies but just not available for UK/US/AU folks at this time.

[Thaidream]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

We may be waiting an awful long time for there to be a clear announcement that satisfactory answers every question that people have. It would surprise me at all if they don't specific such things about what kind of income is acceptable and leave it up to officers to make determinations. Actually if the rule does turn out to be based on monthly 65K transfers there is no compelling reason for them to even talk about such details. But would still leave some of the usual ambiguity that your specific officer might ask questions.

Good morning Vietnam? 

I would agree and the longer other embassies continue with their letters- TI sees no urgency- if they keep to the 6 month validity of the Embassy letters from UK/USA/AUS there won't be a big issue until end of June 2019. In the past-  each particular office had their own idiosyncrasies- never told by TI Hq to get in step- The big 4 offices- CW; CM; Udon and  Jomtien followed the Police Order consistently- we already know about the others and even differences within the same office.

 

 

[mogandave]

Seems like they have at least 6-months to a year to get it hammered out without any big problem for anyone but new applicants.

If everything else is okay there would not be a big reason not to expend if one has proven income in the recent past.

Better that they take the time they need to get a good system ironed out than to roll on with something fast and loose...

[JLCrab]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Good morning Vietnam? 

Or in the rhythm of the (non-USA) football fans' Olé -- olé olé olé!

 

we could be hearing:

O-A -- O-A O-A O-A!

Edited November 7, 2018 by JLCrab

[KhunFred]

I was just quoted 28000 Thai baht (about 851 USD) for an extension by an agency. That's quite a step up from the former system.I have a year before I renew again, but it would take me all year to save this much. Apparently an extension based on marriage is my only sane option. Someone is making a killing and I suspect it's not me.