Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[moontang]

18 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

I was just quoted 28000 Thai baht (about 851 USD) for an extension by an agency. That's quite a step up from the former system.I have a year before I renew again, but it would take me all year to save this much. Apparently an extension based on marriage is my only sane option. Someone is making a killing and I suspect it's not me.

Did it occur to you that you may be the type of people they are targeting?  A year to save 28,000?  I would be surprised to hear my 14 year old nephew say that.

[JLCrab]

17 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I believe it will come down to ante up 400k, 800K or fold. Who's in?

Could very well be -- Always interesting to note how many topics start on this Forum with the  heading or first sentence: "My situation is unique."

 

800/400K baht in the bank for 3 months prior to extension is cut and dry. Just reading the comments on this and related topics so far, it seems the 65/40K income per month option lends itself too much to: Well what about me?

Edited November 7, 2018 by JLCrab

[moontang]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Could very well be -- Always interesting to note how many topics start on this Forum with the  heading or first sentence: "My situation is unique."

 

800/400K baht in the bank for 3 months prior to extension is cut and dry. Just reading the comments on this and related topics so far, it seems the 65/40K income per month option lends itself too much to: Well what about me?

Exactly....but what is interesting is how many on TVF are always ready to ridicule people for not paying stupid prices for beers, etc..and so quick to declare "Cheap Charlie," but now it is them who will be shown the exit.  Let's face if, if you aren't a saver type; 800k or 400K is a lot..same in America.  And Cheap Charlie's is still in business...

[JLCrab]

Well I'll just add that the only monthly 65/40K income option that comes close to being 'cut and dry' is a monthly 65/40 K transfer to a Thai bank with the FTT code next to it no ifs or buts or why not this? 

[fforest1]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Well I'll just add that the only monthly 65/40K income option that comes close to being 'cut and dry' is a monthly 65/40 K transfer to a Thai bank with the FTT code next to it no ifs or buts or why not this? 

I guess you dont like any expats who have income from Thailand....Just throw them out with the trash...As long as your ok thats all that is important...

[JLCrab]

1 minute ago, fforest1 said:

guess you dont like any expats who have income from Thailand....Just throw them out with the trash...As long as your ok thats all that is important...

Whether I like any other expats or not, if Thai IMM officers have to start reviewing all and sundry statements of income, it isn't CUT & DRY and it may be that, if it isn't CUT & DRY, it ain't gonna happen at all.

[mogandave]

I guess you dont like any expats who have income from Thailand....Just throw them out with the trash...As long as your ok thats all that is important...

I think if you show a Thai tax return with the appropriate level of income you should be fine.

You do file, yes?

[sniggie]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I would agree and the longer other embassies continue with their letters- TI sees no urgency- if they keep to the 6 month validity of the Embassy letters from UK/USA/AUS there won't be a big issue until end of June 2019. In the past-  each particular office had their own idiosyncrasies- never told by TI Hq to get in step- The big 4 offices- CW; CM; Udon and  Jomtien followed the Police Order consistently- we already know about the others and even differences within the same office.

 

 

I think there will be a problem from January onwards when all those Aussies, Americans and Brits who are at present blissfully unaware of the changing situation try to get their letters from their embassies. The stuff will hit the fan long before July.

[newatthis]

16 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

I guess you dont like any expats who have income from Thailand....Just throw them out with the trash...As long as your ok thats all that is important...

You should be able to show that money going into a Thai bank account to satisfy the IO.

[mogandave]

Well I'll just add that the only monthly 65/40K income option that comes close to being 'cut and dry' is a monthly 65/40 K transfer to a Thai bank with the FTT code next to it no ifs or buts or why not this? 

And given you’ve already started the transfers in the event it does not work out you can always use it for the fixed or elite option...

[sniggie]

22 hours ago, Pib said:

A lot of people use Transferwise or other similar money transfer services where they can lock-in "exactly" how much will arrive from the get-go.  But with such services you must logon each month and manually initiate the transfer for say exactly Bt65,000, or Bt65,001, and whatever amount you wanted to post to your Thai bank account....with that funding coming from your bank account or debit/credit card.  At least with Transferwise there no "automatic" per month transfer capability...must do a manual transfer each time.   

There's still the nagging doubt as to whether Transferwise shows up on every occasion as coming from abroad. If, as happens with condo purchases, the money has to be seen to have come directly from a foreign bank that's going to be a considerable extra cost over a year,

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, sniggie said:

There's still the nagging doubt as to whether Transferwise shows up on every occasion as coming from abroad. If, as happens with condo purchases, the money has to be seen to have come directly from a foreign bank that's going to be a considerable extra cost over a year,

 

From what I've seen here, the variation in how Transferwise transfers get listed here on the Thailand end seems to come down to which Thai bank company is receiving the transfer...

 

AFAICT, no one's having any problems with BKK Bank receiving those transfers, and they seem to consistently get logged here as inbound foreign transfers. On the flip side of that coin, I believe the incoming transfers received by Krungsri/Ayudhya do NOT get logged here as incoming foreign xfers.

 

I'm assuming there is some similar consistency among the other major banks -- Kasikorn, TMB, etc...  Either they do or they don't. And once you find out which, you probably can rely on that for future transfers with them.

 

I've never heard the reporting status of such transfers to vary from yes to no within the SAME Thai bank company.

 

 

[OJAS]

23 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

From what I've seen here, the variation in how Transferwise transfers get listed here on the Thailand end seems to come down to which Thai bank company is receiving the transfer...

 

AFAICT, no one's having any problems with BKK Bank receiving those transfers, and they seem to consistently get logged here as inbound foreign transfers. On the flip side of that coin, I believe the incoming transfers received by Krungsri/Ayudhya do NOT get logged here as incoming foreign xfers.

 

I'm assuming there is some similar consistency among the other major banks -- Kasikorn, TMB, etc...  Either they do or they don't. And once you find out which, you probably can rely on that for future transfers with them.

 

I've never heard the reporting status of such transfers to vary from yes to no within the SAME Thai bank company.

 

 

Certainly whenever I have initiated a TW transfer from my UK to Thai accounts I have been able to download a TW PDF confirmation which includes details of the THB conversion amount and Thai bank account (including number) into which it is to be paid. So in the case of Thai banks who don't code incoming TW transfers as FTT or the like, it should hopefully be possible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that these originated from abroad when passbooks are read in conjunction with TW PDF confirmations.

[JimGant]

Quote

Well I'll just add that the only monthly 65/40K income option that comes close to being 'cut and dry' is a monthly 65/40 K transfer to a Thai bank with the FTT code next to it

Simplicity plus -- and just what's been told to the Brit and US embassies. So, after all has been implemented and phased in (and  will be the interesting part .....), your annual trip to Immigration will include your bank book, showing deposits over the past 12 months, averaging 65k per month. What? You don't spend 65k mo 'cause you mainly use your cash back credit card? Well, serendipity. All that unspent cash from your 65k/mo deposits will eventually grow into an 800k deposit -- and then no more monthly deposits required. So, if you've got 65k (or 40k) per month to spare for awhile, welcome to Thailand.

[moontang]

2 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Certainly whenever I have initiated a TW transfer from my UK to Thai accounts I have been able to download a TW PDF confirmation which includes details of the THB conversion amount and Thai bank account (including number) into which it is to be paid. So in the case of Thai banks who don't code incoming TW transfers as FTT or the like, it should hopefully be possible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that these originated from abroad when passbooks are read in conjunction with TW PDF confirmations.

A good litmus test would be if they are willing to issue the official form showing money came abroad..like for condo purchase.  I sold and bought, but round tripped the money..was lucky..

[Pattaya46]

I think that before continuing speculations here,

you should read this other post :

 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Pattaya46

[JLCrab]

And there is a link in that RECEIVED FROM MY AGENT YESTERDAY notice to the UK embassy which says:

 

... or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa.

 

-- note that the word used is "transferred".

 

[fforest1]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

And there is a link in that RECEIVED FROM MY AGENT YESTERDAY notice to the UK embassy which says:

 

... or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa.

 

-- note that the word used is "transferred".

 

Man you have a hard on for bank book codes and the word transferred....Why keep harping on it....What if a deposit from any source was ok....Would you not feel better because this would help more people.... 

[JLCrab]

7 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Man you have a hard on for bank book codes and the word transferred....Why keep harping on it....What if a deposit from any source was ok....Would you not feel better because this would help more people....

Thank you -- BTW 'FTT' stands for Foreign Telegaphic Transfer.

 

What if Thai IMM decides that they want to see 'evidence' of new 65K baht money coming into to a Thai bank account each month from outside Thailand or there is no extension via monthly income route at all?

Edited November 7, 2018 by JLCrab

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

What if

What if you just wait and see?

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

What if you just wait and see?

Sure -- but as one of our esteemed members pointed out earlier: The early bird gets the worm.

 

There are not many things one can do right now until any procedure is specified. But starting to make 65K+ baht FTT deposits each month is one of them.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Sure -- but as one of our esteemed members pointed out earlier: The early bird gets the worm.

 

There are not many things one can do right now until any procedure is specified. But starting to make 65K+ baht FTT deposits each month is one of them.

Just throwing 65,000 into a Thai account every month has nothing to do with anything under the current rules.

 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Just throwing 65,000 into a Thai account every month has nothing to do with anything under the current rules.

 

In a way it does since that is currently the best backup proof for an income affidavit you could have to prove the minimum requirement of 40k baht or 65k baht for extension of stay if asked for it.

[mogandave]

In a way it does since that is currently the best backup proof for an income affidavit you could have to prove the minimum requirement of 40k baht or 65k baht for extension of stay if asked for it.

In any event, there is nothing really to lose transferring the money. If it doesn’t work, you can can still spend it or transfer it back.

[Pattaya46]

Interesting find by @elviajero proving that the VERIFYING of the Income Letter is nothing new !

 

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

It is mentioned on this old immigration website FAQ's: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

 

22. Question : What is the required age of the alien wishing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

…          2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare      -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;         2.3  In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

 

[JLCrab]

48 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Just throwing 65,000 into a Thai account every month has nothing to do with anything under the current rules.

Yes but I already received last month my last extension of stay under the current affidavit-from-embassy rules so I am already working on or at least anticipating the NEXT set of rules. I bring in at least 65K baht each month anyway via the ACH-Bangkok Bank or ATM so all I'm sucking up is the additional SWIFT fee on the bet that it maybe will prove worth it.

 

... and that FTT in the passbook next to the deposit sure looks pretty to me.

Edited November 8, 2018 by JLCrab

[Lovethailandelite]

50 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Yes but I already received last month my last extension of stay under the current affidavit-from-embassy rules so I am already working on or at least anticipating the NEXT set of rules. I bring in at least 65K baht each month anyway via the ACH-Bangkok Bank or ATM so all I'm sucking up is the additional SWIFT fee on the bet that it maybe will prove worth it.

 

... and that FTT in the passbook next to the deposit sure looks pretty to me.

What you are doing is the correct way to proceed. People seem to be waiting for some sort of formal notice from immigration. The formal notice has already been issued by the respective embassy's after the conclusion of meetings with immigration. I have not been through the fine detail of the US and Australian directive but the UK directive from immigration is 3 months of bank statements showing a minimum income in to a Thai bank account of at least 40k/65k a month if using the income method, 400k/800k if using the banked method. IMO, there will simply be no formal notice from immigration other than people being told/directed to there respective embassy information page as above when renewing or attempting a first time extension at an immigration office.
This is an updated version. The proceeding notice stated 12 months of bank statements required for the income method.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand
 

From 1 January 2019, the British Embassy Bangkok will no longer be providing British Nationals with letters confirming their income. This letter has previously served as a supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa. The British Embassy Bangkok is stopping the certification of income letters because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements to verify the income of British Nationals.

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Lovethailandelite

[Pattaya46]

4 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

People seem to be waiting for some sort of formal notice from immigration. The formal notice has already been issued by the respective embassy's after the conclusion of meetings with immigration.

Maybe... Speculation... Anyway words of your embassy will worth nothing when you will be in Immigration Office wanting to Extend your stay, so it's logical to wait for news from TI.

 

5 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

// the UK directive from immigration is 3 months of bank statements showing a minimum income in to a Thai bank account of at least 40k/65k a month if using the income method, 

That is your interpretation of the text, but not how I read it. For me there is no restriction to 3 months for the 40/65k, so you should be able to show 12 months.

[Lovethailandelite]

9 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Maybe... Speculation... Anyway words of your embassy will worth nothing when you will be in Immigration Office wanting to Extend your stay, so it's logical to wait for news from TI.

 

That is your interpretation of the text, but not how I read it. For me there is no restriction to 3 months for the 40/65k, so you should be able to show 12 months.

Of course you can show 12 months of bank statements so long as it complies with the minimum figure and time period stipulated. Nothing has changed other than the fact it needs to now be incoming transfers into a Thai bank account.
And once again, if your waiting for a formal statement from immigration, you maybe waiting a long time. The statement has already been issued via the respective Embassy's at the outcome of meetings which have now concluded.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Lovethailandelite

[Mike Teavee]

23 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

What you are doing is the correct way to proceed. People seem to be waiting for some sort of formal notice from immigration. The formal notice has already been issued by the respective embassy's after the conclusion of meetings with immigration. I have not been through the fine detail of the US and Australian directive but the UK directive from immigration is 3 months of bank statements showing a minimum income in to a Thai bank account of at least 40k/65k a month if using the income method, 400k/800k if using the banked method. IMO, there will simply be no formal notice from immigration other than people being told/directed to there respective embassy information page as above when renewing or attempting a first time extension at an immigration office.
This is an updated version. The proceeding notice stated 12 months of bank statements required for the income method.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand
 

From 1 January 2019, the British Embassy Bangkok will no longer be providing British Nationals with letters confirming their income. This letter has previously served as a supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa. The British Embassy Bangkok is stopping the certification of income letters because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements to verify the income of British Nationals.

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

Sorry to be pedantic but this just shows how in touch the British Embassy are... Since when are we applying for a "Visa"?

 

Got one of those already...