Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Thaidream]

6 minutes ago, mogandave said:

How do you know what they did. did not do, will do and will not do.

I think it's quite evident  what they did and did not do. However, I will be pleasantly surprised if they  at the very least  do what they indicate they will do and assist their citizens during the transition,  Then , at some point, I'll do what I have to do to  get my extension.

[mogandave]

 

In fact, some posters here who have been asking at their local Immigration offices...

Which is very much like asking the guy hawking peanuts at a ball game what next year’s lineup is going to look like.

[mogandave]

I think it's quite evident  what they did and did not do. However, I will be pleasantly surprised if they  at the very least  do what they indicate they will do and assist their citizens during the transition,  Then , at some point, I'll do what I have to do to  get my extension.

You only know what you were told.

[mogandave]

That is true for the bank method. For the bank method the required income is zero baht and the required annual import into Thailand is zero baht. 
 
But the income letter issues are not about the bank method. They are about the income method. For the income method, of course they do want "proof" of income.
 
Different methods. Best not to conflate them.

Why would they care about one and not the other?

They don’t want broke people here. I’m guessing if you can show 65k coming in every month, regardless of how you do it, you’re not entirely broke.

I think to get the one year multi-entry non o in LA you only have to show about $800 in the bank.

[ubonjoe]

49 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I think to get the one year multi-entry non o in LA you only have to show about $800 in the bank.

They only issue multiple non-o visas based upon marriage anywhere in the US. The $800 is the standard equivalent of 20k baht for any visa.

For retirement you can only get a OA long stay visa.

[mogandave]

They only issue multiple non-o visas based upon marriage anywhere in the US. The $800 is the standard equivalent of 20k baht for any visa.
For retirement you can only get a OA long stay visa.

Yeah, the OA looks like a PITA. You can use funds in the US though, yes?

Marriage or family, so even if it did not work out with the wife, if you had a child and have stayed on speaking terms..

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, mogandave said:

You can use funds in the US though, yes?

The money can be in a US bank or some other kind of financial institution.

6 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Marriage or family, so even if it did not work out with the wife, if you had a child and have stayed on speaking terms..

Yes at some embassies and consulates. 

[moontang]

Looks like some people believe that our embassies and consulates have a voice in any Thai policies.  The reality is that what they think doesn't mean squat..same with the expat clubs, etc.., and they can easily do more harm than good.  Michael Fay got the cane, even with Clinton's intervention.  Brits, Canadians, and Americans are often given what amounts to cruel punishments here...the embassies can only observe that it is carried out judiciously; they won't even comment that the offender deserves a slap on the wrist, instead of a ten year sentence.

 

The US deports Thai citizens, regularly.

Edited November 8, 2018 by moontang

[mogandave]

Looks like some people believe that our embassies and consulates have a voice in any Thai policies.  The reality is that what they think doesn't mean squat..same with the expat clubs, etc.., and they can easily do more harm than good.  Michael Fay got the cane, even with Clinton's intervention.  Brits, Canadians, and Americans are often given what amounts to cruel punishments here...the embassies can only observe that it is carried out judiciously; they won't even comment that the offender deserves a slap on the wrist, instead of a ten year sentence.
 
The US deports Thai citizens, regularly.

What do you think would be an appropriate punishment for someone lying on an income affidavit?

[mogandave]

Yes at some embassies and consulates. 

I was only talking about Los Angeles, can’t speak to anywhere else...

[merijn]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You don't find it odd, after all these weeks, that we've heard nothing similar from the Italian, German, Dutch, Sweden, France, etc etc embassies???

 

This whole debacle is not something the three western embassies initiated. It stemmed from meetings with Immigration where Immigration apparently began demanding some higher form of proof or verification than had been the case for all these many past years.

 

Why the change in demand for proof now? And why, thus far, have only certain embassies, based on public knowledge thus far, been subjected to that kind of demand?

 

The reason that you don't hear something from the mentioned embassy's is the fact that they comply with the "new" TI requirements.

Those new requirements where supposedly already forwarded to the embassies in May/June.

Only the embassies from the UK, USA and Australia announced that they can't or wont comply with the TI requirements for whatever reason.

Therefore the TI is now more strict with those applications to guarantee that they comply with the TI requirements.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, merijn said:

The reason that you don't hear something from the mentioned embassy's is the fact that they comply with the "new" TI requirements.

 

 

I think that's total and unjustified speculation on your part. There's nothing in the public domain AFAIK that any of the other countries have a more rigorous process than the British have/had. And certainly not ALL of the other embassies.  Nor have we heard one peep about any of them changing/tightening their review process for issuing income letters in response to requests from Thai Immigration.

 

Just how exactly do you think the other embassies are "verifying" their citizens monthly income from all the various sources it might come in ways that the British are/were not?

 

 

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

ust how exactly do you think the other embassies are "verifying" their citizens monthly income from all the various sources it might come in ways that the British are/were not?

I don't think they are- they are doing the same- looking at docs and giving an Oath- to them that is enough and meets what Thai Imm says.

[Joe Mcseismic]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

As it stands, with an income letter, there has never been any requirement to fully import.

And there is the problem that Thai immigration have finally woken up to and are going to fix.

[mogandave]

 
I think that's total and unjustified speculation on your part. There's nothing in the public domain AFAIK that any of the other countries have a more rigorous process than the British have/had. And certainly not ALL of the other embassies.  Nor have we heard one peep about any of them changing/tightening their review process for issuing income letters in response to requests from Thai Immigration.
 
Just how exactly do you think the other embassies are "verifying" their citizens monthly income from all the various sources it might come in ways that the British are/were not?
 
 

I find it hard to believe anyone would post “...total and unjustified speculation...” on a serious forum.

[Thaidream]

Just now, Joe Mcseismic said:

And there is the problem that Thai immigration have finally woken up to and are going to fix.

And do tell us how this will be fixed.  I know transfer every month. Why transfer-  I can write a check for 65K from my Us account- it will clear in 15 days-proof is copy of check- foreign.

 

I have 800K in US Travelers checks- that were bought in America- verified by the check and receipt- I can cash 65K every month.

 

I can arrive at Bangkok airport with  $50K in cash- declare it at the airport which proves I brought it from abroad on my flight- I can then deposit it in a Thai Bank account.

 

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

And do tell us how this will be fixed.  I know transfer every month. Why transfer-  I can write a check for 65K from my Us account- it will clear in 15 days-proof is copy of check- foreign.

 

I have 800K in US Travelers checks- that were bought in America- verified by the check and receipt- I can cash 65K every month.

 

I can arrive at Bangkok airport with  $50K in cash- declare it at the airport which proves I brought it from abroad on my flight- I can then deposit it in a Thai Bank account.

 

 

Pretty self evident from my post, but I'll humour you.

800k in the bank, or 65k every month in a Thai bank.

As has been pointed out by many posters, ability to pay is worthless to IO. You can have a million dollars in an overseas bank, yet, only bring in 20k a month. That's against the spirit of the immigration requirement.

They now want the cash HERE, and frankly, I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever. 

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

And there is the problem that Thai immigration have finally woken up to and are going to fix.

You're making stuff up. Only a few embassies won't be issuing letters at this point. 

[fforest1]

16 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

And there is the problem that Thai immigration have finally woken up to and are going to fix.

So if its fixed to your standards you will feel better?

To bad many will be thrown under the bus...But as long as you feel better......

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

They now want the cash HERE, and frankly, I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever. 

 

Except for many years past until lately, that's never been a requirement. It was never a requirement in the Immigration rules devised by Immigration themselves. And it's still not a requirement today, based on the actual official Police Orders as they exist today, despite what the embassies have lately said.

 

So it's very good of you to be arguing for more rigorous rules for expats than what Immigration themselves have adopted and enforced for many years here. And the actual administrative rules that are presently in force.

 

[Thaidream]

15 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

They now want the cash HERE, and frankly, I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever. 

In the examples I gave- all the cash is in country- I do not have to use a transfer service to get it here.  I can stand outside my Thai Bank- use the ATM machine to get 65K each month- take the Thai Baht and deposit it into my Thai account.  The money originated from the US.

Proof of all my examples are easy to read and understand and all the money is in my Thai account.  This is not cheating the system . I have the income and it is here.  I see no problem. I  don't want to bring 800K to Thailand in one lump sum unless I have to. And the current police order has never said the money has to be sourced from abroad.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Thaidream

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Pretty self evident from my post, but I'll humour you.

800k in the bank, or 65k every month in a Thai bank.

As has been pointed out by many posters, ability to pay is worthless to IO. You can have a million dollars in an overseas bank, yet, only bring in 20k a month. That's against the spirit of the immigration requirement.

They now want the cash HERE, and frankly, I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever. 

You know about the spirit.????

Nope.

There has never been any policy to REQUIRE import of claimed income.

Any policy can change but I suggest people back off from trying to read minds. 

[mogandave]

And do tell us how this will be fixed.  I know transfer every month. Why transfer-  I can write a check for 65K from my Us account- it will clear in 15 days-proof is copy of check- foreign.
 
I have 800K in US Travelers checks- that were bought in America- verified by the check and receipt- I can cash 65K every month.
 
I can arrive at Bangkok airport with  $50K in cash- declare it at the airport which proves I brought it from abroad on my flight- I can then deposit it in a Thai Bank account.
 
 

So why don’t you?

I’ve cashed a few US checks here and the all took over 30 days and the fees and rate was crap.

[Joe Mcseismic]

Don't bother arguing with me, argue with all the immigration officers in different parts of the country that have said this, as have your embassies. Don't want to believe it? That's your prerogative. That's the way it's going to be, my crystal ball is never wrong. 

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

So why don’t you?

I’ve cashed a few US checks here and the all took over 30 days and the fees and rate was crap.

I still do- depositing the check will now clear quicker but the costs are a little higher. The best method and the cheapest is the ATM method as long as your bank refunds or waives the fees.

 

I am not advocating anyone cheat the system but there are several ways to show the money or prove income. There doesn't have to be one way.

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Don't bother arguing with me, argue with all the immigration officers in different parts of the country that have said this, as have your embassies. Don't want to believe it? That's your prerogative. That's the way it's going to be, my crystal ball is never wrong. 

Thanks- I'll be waiting for the lottery number but you are certainly entitled to your opinion!

[fforest1]

2 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Don't bother arguing with me, argue with all the immigration officers in different parts of the country that have said this, as have your embassies. Don't want to believe it? That's your prerogative. That's the way it's going to be, my crystal ball is never wrong. 

my crystal ball is never wrong. 

Damm you must be worth billions then....What are you doing posting here?

 

 

[Ned]

I agree with Joe. It's a new ballgame now. "Let's see your money and where it's from."

Do people expect Immigration to have some sympathy for their plight?

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

7 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

my crystal ball is never wrong. 

Damm you must be worth billions then....What are you doing posting here?

 

 

How do you know that I'm not worth billions?

I could be Bill Gates having some fun.....

[mogandave]

I still do- depositing the check will now clear quicker but the costs are a little higher. The best method and the cheapest is the ATM method as long as your bank refunds or waives the fees.
 
I am not advocating anyone cheat the system but there are several ways to show the money or prove income. There doesn't have to be one way.

If immigration mandates the funds are transferred into Thailand direct to your account, and this is substantiated using your Thai passbook (book-bank) accompanied by a certified letter from the bank (which is reasonable) none of the things you suggest would be a viable option.

I assume people that are generating unearned income in Thailand will likely be allowed to use their Thai tax return as proof, which is fair.

I’ve course I am only guessing.

Personally, I moved funds from a joint account to a new account in my name only that should satisfy the 400k requirement next September.