Almost refused entry

[Just Weird]

22 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Considered to be Thailand? Stupid. It is a desk where entries of Aliens are processed. The banks can put ATMs wherever they can lease the space. So how many people would use use them there?

"The banks can put ATMs wherever they can lease the space".

Obviously, so presumably there's a good reason that they don't put them there!  Perhaps they can't!

[JackThompson]

15 minutes ago, seancbk said:

It is possible I've missed the machines or they've been put there in the last 3 months. 

Or are no longer there.  Or, the reports I was recalling were from Swampy.
Thanks for the info.

[lkv]

12 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

The idea that the area of the airport before the Immigration counters “not Thailand” is silly.
A notion bandied about from the barstool

It's not Thailand, it's transit until you pass that Immigration counter. And most likely has to do with BOT regulations on the Thai Baht.

 

For example, I could transit Suvarnabhumi, take out 100K baht from the ATM, and fly onwards to another overseas destination, therefore breaking the BOT rule that says you cannot export more than 50K baht to any other country apart from the neighboring ones where the limit is 2M baht.

 

Or with rules related to foreign currency exchange.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that to be the reason. I understand that previously (long time ago), they had ATMs that would disperse USD only?

Edited November 27, 2018 by lkv

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

"The banks can put ATMs wherever they can lease the space".

Obviously, so presumably there's a good reason that they don't put them there!  Perhaps they can't!

Security clearance to access them may be  onerous,

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

It's not Thailand, it's transit until you pass that Immigration counter. And most likely has to do with BOT regulations on the Thai Baht.

 

For example, I could transit Suvarnabhumi, take out 100K baht from the ATM, and fly onwards to another overseas destination, therefore breaking the BOT rule that says you cannot export more than 50K baht to any other country apart from the neighboring ones where the limit is 2M baht.

 

Or with rules related to foreign currency exchange.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that to be the reason. I understand that previously (long time ago), they had ATMs that would disperse USD only?

But they have exchange booths before Immigration so you could change £2,500 & fly onward to another overseas destination with > 100,000 THB 

 

Either ways I just carry s$1,000 SGD (approx 24,000 THB) in case I ever need to show funds... + a few thousand THB to see me through until I get to an ATM. 

 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

On 11/2/2018 at 5:04 PM, BritTim said:

If that were the reason, there would not be many ATMs after immigration for outgoing passengers. It is clear that the failure to provide ATMs before immigration is a deliberate decision to increase immigration officials' leverage with travelers who do not carry cash.

Just struck me that I don't think I've seen an ATM on arrival before immigration anywhere except at Changi Airport which is a little unusual as Departure & Arrivals are in the same area so there are loads of Money Changers, ATMs, shops before you get to immigration.

 

[Caldera]

Well if they wanted to have ATMs there, I really don't see any reason why there cannot be any. Phnom Penh airport has ATMs nearby the Visa on Arrival counter, so if you need cash before applying for the VoA or before clearing immigration, you can withdraw some. I think it's the same in Vietnam.

 

Personally, I wouldn't rely on that, anywhere. ATMs can run out money or go out of service for other reasons, after all. Then what? It's best to come prepared.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Caldera

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, lkv said:

It's not Thailand, it's transit until you pass that Immigration counter. And most likely has to do with BOT regulations on the Thai Baht.

 

For example, I could transit Suvarnabhumi, take out 100K baht from the ATM, and fly onwards to another overseas destination, therefore breaking the BOT rule that says you cannot export more than 50K baht to any other country apart from the neighboring ones where the limit is 2M baht.

 

Or with rules related to foreign currency exchange.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that to be the reason. I understand that previously (long time ago), they had ATMs that would disperse USD only?

The transit area is Thailand. 

 

I suspect that the only reason they don’t have ATM’s is simply because there’s no demand/need for them. Most visitors will have already exchanged cash, or have exchangeable cash on them.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

It's not Thailand, it's transit until you pass that Immigration counter. And most likely has to do with BOT regulations on the Thai Baht.   For example, I could transit Suvarnabhumi, take out 100K baht from the ATM, and fly onwards to another overseas destination, therefore breaking the BOT rule that says you cannot export more than 50K baht to any other country apart from the neighboring ones where the limit is 2M baht.   Or with rules related to foreign currency exchange.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that to be the reason. I understand that previously (long time ago), they had ATMs that would disperse USD only?

 

 

 

 

Not Thailand eh? What country is it then?Let’s say you fly in on KLM from AMS and the Thais they find Ganja you bought llegally there in your checked luggage. You are not in Thailand until your pass immigration checks right? What countries laws are you charged with smuggling under?

 

Or do they just let you go?

 

 Every centimetre of ground within the boarders of Thailand is Thailand, this is internationally recognized customary law. Even the foreign Embassies in BKK are in Thailand, contrary to the opinions bandied about from the bar-stool.

 

A transit area in an international airport is just a place foreigners and others are processed before they are admitted, that is why access to the international departure/arrival area is restricted.

 

The false idea that the transit area in BKK or any other international terminal in the Kingdom is “not Thailand” is pure rubbish.

 

 

 

 

[lkv]

5 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Even the foreign Embassies in BKK are in Thailand, contrary to the opinions bandied about from the bar-stool.

 

 

Google "Embassy sovereign terittory" and you will get an answer to your question.

 

That's how Julien Assange got political asylum in the Ecuador Embassy in London.

 

And no, for the purposes of Immigration clearance, you are "not in Thailand" when you are in transit. Because if you were in Thailand, you would be deported, not "refused entry into Thailand".

Edited November 28, 2018 by lkv

[Just Weird]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 1:32 PM, jacko45k said:

Security clearance to access them may be  onerous,

That's what I've said before but the Thaivisa experts denounced that as rubbish!

[BritTim]

38 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

On 11/27/2018 at 1:32 PM, jacko45k said:

Security clearance to access them may be  onerous,

 That's what I've said before but the Thaivisa experts denounced that as rubbish!

Count me as someone who fails to see why accessing ATMs is no problem for transit passengers, but somehow an onerous security problem if the arriving passenger does not have a boarding pass for another flight.

[lkv]

9 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Count me as someone who fails to see why accessing ATMs is no problem for transit passengers, but somehow an onerous security problem if the arriving passenger does not have a boarding pass for another flight.

Actually I think the answer may be simpler.

 

ATMs were not designed as an emergency solution for people lacking proof of 20K cash to show to Immigration. For many many years people did not have this issue.

 

This is recent rubbish enforced (last few years), the 20K cash, as an excuse to reject some people arbitrarily. The enforcement of it, not the law itself.

 

When they initially placed the ATMs where they are, I guess it made more sense outside than inside for whatever reason.

Edited November 28, 2018 by lkv

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

  Google "Embassy sovereign terittory" and you will get an answer to your question.  

That's how Julien Assange got political asylum in the Ecuador Embassy in London.

 

And no, for the purposes of Immigration clearance, you are "not in Thailand" when you are in transit. Because if you were in Thailand, you would be deported, not "refused entry into Thailand".

 

 

Wrong again.Such aliens are denied entry not deported simply because they have not been yet admitted.

 

There is a huge difference between sovereign immunity and sovereign territory.

 

Don’t “Google it” instead take a few years of University study of international relations like I did before settling on Engineering.

 

Particularly while reading the Vienna conventions on diplomatic relations 1961 pay attention to article 22. After digesting that consider the classic example. “A fat Thai woman visits the US embassy in BKK to undertake some business. While there she pops off to the toilets and gives birth. Is that infant a citizen of the United States”?

 

According to your logic the baby would be a natural born citizen of the United States by means of the 14th amendment to the US constitution. But that would be incorrect.

 

 

[moontang]

Inside is a much more secure area, so that would be an obvious reason to put them in a place accessible to armored cars.

[puukao]

US Embassy isn't on American soil..... 

 

I've never heard of 20,000 baht until last year, so that is on the checklist now.  

 

I think if your condo was ending in a month, but she figured you were going to spend more than one month in the country...... well, then of course something is wrong.  LOL.  Oh wait, let me think....that isn't a red flag at all.  who knows how people think....

 

you were just unlucky.  

 

they asked me where i was staying two years ago, i told them a temple (name of temple) guesthouse.  yes, it existed IF you didn't say WAT first...so it was a guesthouse with the name of a temple, but not a temple.  but i was super tired, didn't know any Thai back then, and said Wat........guesthouse.  he pulled up his phone, checked, used some common sense, and let me in.  

 

life could be worse my friend...

Edited November 28, 2018 by puukao

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, BritTim said:

Count me as someone who fails to see why accessing ATMs is no problem for transit passengers, but somehow an onerous security problem if the arriving passenger does not have a boarding pass for another flight.

??? Off topic

Edited November 28, 2018 by jacko45k

[josephbloggs]

On 11/2/2018 at 4:04 PM, BritTim said:

If that were the reason, there would not be many ATMs after immigration for outgoing passengers. It is clear that the failure to provide ATMs before immigration is a deliberate decision to increase immigration officials' leverage with travelers who do not carry cash.

Absolute rubbish.  There are no ATMs after immigration at BKK.  Well there is one but it only dispenses foreign currency, not THB, and you need a foreign visa or mastercard to use it, or a foreign currency account at SCB.  I have never ever seen anyone using this machine in countless trips through the airport.

 

There are no "normal" ATMs at all, not one.  So your conspiracy theory is nonsense.

[ChristianBlessing]

9 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

... the Vienna conventions on diplomatic relations 1961 pay attention to article 22. After digesting that consider the classic example. “A fat Thai woman visits the US embassy in BKK to undertake some business. While there she pops off to the toilets and gives birth. Is that infant a citizen of the United States”?

Article 22 of the Vienna Convention treats only diplomatic missions and the contractual agreements between the "receiving" country and the "sending" country. It mentions nothing of so-called "transit" areas in international airports.

The so-called "transit" or pre-immigration areas of airports are indeed the sovereign territory of the country where the airport is located. They typically exist as a courtesy to onward bound or transiting travelers. Furthermore, the progeny of your "fat Thai woman" giving birth in a US airport, irrespective of whether the mother cleared immigration, would indeed be regarded as a natural born citizen of the United States under article 14.

Quote

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by ChristianBlessing
clarity

[ChristianBlessing]

9 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

... the Vienna conventions on diplomatic relations 1961 pay attention to article 22. After digesting that consider the classic example. “A fat Thai woman visits the US embassy in BKK to undertake some business. While there she pops off to the toilets and gives birth. Is that infant a citizen of the United States”?

Article 22 of the Vienna Convention treats only diplomatic missions and the contractual agreements between the "receiving" country and the "sending" country. It mentions nothing of so-called "transit" areas in international airports.

The so-called "transit" or pre-immigration areas of airports are indeed the sovereign territory of the country where the airport is located. They typically exist as a courtesy to onward bound or transiting travelers. Furthermore, the progeny of your "fat Thai woman" giving birth in a US airport, irrespective of whether the mother cleared immigration, would indeed be regarded as a natural born citizen of the United States under article 14.

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Absolute rubbish.  There are no ATMs after immigration at BKK.  Well there is one but it only dispenses foreign currency, not THB, and you need a foreign visa or mastercard to use it, or a foreign currency account at SCB.  I have never ever seen anyone using this machine in countless trips through the airport.

 

There are no "normal" ATMs at all, not one.  So your conspiracy theory is nonsense.

Folks have reported collecting 20K Baht from an ATM while being escorted to their plane after being refused entry for not having that cash, to use on their return.   Others have also reported on the ATMs in airside-departure.  I hope someone will snap some pics, the next trip through, if they are still there.

[josephbloggs]

34 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Folks have reported collecting 20K Baht from an ATM while being escorted to their plane after being refused entry for not having that cash, to use on their return.   Others have also reported on the ATMs in airside-departure.  I hope someone will snap some pics, the next trip through, if they are still there.

Maybe at Don Mueang - I never fly through there - but certainly not at Suvarnabhumi.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Article 22 of the Vienna Convention treats only diplomatic missions and the contractual agreements between the "receiving" country and the "sending" country. It mentions nothing of so-called "transit" areas in international airports.

 

The so-called "transit" or pre-immigration areas of airports are indeed the sovereign territory of the country where the airport is located. They typically exist as a courtesy to onward bound or transiting travelers. Furthermore, the progeny of your "fat Thai woman" giving birth in a US airport, irrespective of whether the mother cleared immigration, would indeed be regarded as a natural born citizen of the United States under article 14.

 

 

If a child would to be born in an Airport in the US yes, she would be a citizen of the United States regardless the citizenship of the parents.

 

US Embassy in BKK no, the classic example I presented.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Absolute rubbish.  There are no ATMs after immigration at BKK.  Well there is one but it only dispenses foreign currency, not THB, and you need a foreign visa or mastercard to use it, or a foreign currency account at SCB.  I have never ever seen anyone using this machine in countless trips through the airport.

 

There are no "normal" ATMs at all, not one.  So your conspiracy theory is nonsense.

Recall that this discussion started over the issue arriving passengers can have if not possessing 20,000 equivalent in cash in any major convertible currency. When immigration decides to insist on this, the inability to pull a few hundred dollars from an account with tens of thousands results in denied entry, with all kinds of expense and other implications. The argument has then been over whether there are practical or security issues with having an ATM machine between the arrival gates and immigration. It would be perfectly OK if these dispensed US dollars rather than Thai baht. I cannot remember which currency(ies) the ones in the departure are dispense.

[ChristianBlessing]

26 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

 

If a child would to be born in an Airport in the US yes, she would be a citizen of the United States regardless the citizenship of the parents.

 

US Embassy in BKK no, the classic example I presented.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Apologies. I misread your example.

[kkerry]

3 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I cannot remember which currency(ies) the ones in the departure are dispense.

Suvarnabhumi SCB foreign currency ATM in departures. Photo from 2016.