Street dogs in Thailand?

[redbull707]

Hey Everyone, 

 

Did you know that dogs are the most dangerous animal to humans? That's right! More people die a year from dogs than any other animal. According to the World Atlas, "Dogs kill 25,000 people yearly. These deaths are not because of vicious maulings by household pets, however. Feral and stray dogs infected with rabies attack people and spread the disease."

 

1. MY RANT

I live in a quiet tourist town where tourists and Thai's are often barked at (and sometimes bit) by territorial street dogs. I love Thailand, but there is something about dogs in Thailand that make them the most suicidal specie of dog. I see dogs with broken legs (caused by chasing/attacking cars and motorbikes) who continue the same behavior! Do these dogs have a death wish? 

 

I'm American. We LOVE dogs. Hell, dogs are iconic with our cowboy culture. But territorial street dogs that charge at bicyclists and motorcylists will cause an accident or fatalitiy as cyclists are pushed into the middle of the street with traffic. 

 

2. YOUR SOLUTIONS! WHAT CAN WE DO? 

 

Not all dogs pushing cyclists and motorists into the streets are homeless. Some have owners who allow their dogs to chase/bark/bite people. It would seem common sense for them to put their dog on a leash. What to do in this situation? I think Police wouldn't care about a farang's complaint. Should I start a petition? There's gotta be a solution.  

[johng]

Recent law change gives dogs more rights than humans !

...so killing them is certainly not legal.

[robblok]

No its not legal to kill dogs.. it is actually punishable. 

 

You could start a petition maybe it helps.

 

I do find it telling that yet an other American starts about killing dogs, maybe being a vigilante is a bit more normal over there then in Europe. 

[redbull707]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

No its not legal to kill dogs.. it is actually punishable. 

 

You could start a petition maybe it helps.

 

I do find it telling that yet an other American starts about killing dogs, maybe being a vigilante is a bit more normal over there then in Europe. 

Not serious about killing. I work in marketing. I used the title to capture peoples attention. I agree about petition... it would have to be in Thai though. Not sure what else to do. Thank you for your comment! 

 

[redbull707]

7 minutes ago, johng said:

Recent law change gives dogs more rights than humans !

...so killing them is certainly not legal.

And it wouldn't be the buddhist thing to do. As the Lord Buddha said, "Don't kill. Just let die." Or atleast that's what I read on a sign nailed up to a coconut tree on Koh Phangan... 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, redbull707 said:

Not serious about killing. I work in marketing. I used the title to capture peoples attention. I agree about petition... it would have to be in Thai though. Not sure what else to do. Thank you for your comment! 

 

Sorry for taking it serious as there are a lot of weekend warriors around who have advocated something similar.

 

Anyway this is a Thai problem and depends on where you are. Where I am in a gated village in BKK there are some dogs walking free but they don't seem to bother people. Maybe some people are afraid of them but so far no biting incidents. So it does depend where you are.

 

I had a bad experience with dogs many years ago on Koh Samui. 

 

The Thais seem to want to do something.. but i doubt it will help.. a good sterilization program would help. 

[CharlieH]

In an ideal world, pets would be licensed, the revenue used to round up strays, healthy animals offerred for re-homing and unhealthy/unwanted animals destroyed. 

This is Thailand where "live and let live" is the standard, so dont hold your breath, it wont happen, not in our life time.

 

Edit : It is illegal to kill dogs in Thailand.

The topic title has been edited as by your own admission it was used to "attract attention" and could be regarded as "trolling".

[CharlieH]

A post suggesting an illegal act has been removed.

[wildewillie89]

Firstly, whether farang or Thai, government departments treat you the same if you follow the correct procedures. ThaiVisa members usually just go off their own assumptions rather than actually getting up from their computer chair. walking out the front door and actually trying. From my experience, and many of the members who have actually tried, if anything the departments usually help you out more as you are a farang. 

In this case the police will not care (would be the same if a Thai complained). One of the houses that mainly contributes to the dog problem in our village is a house of a high ranking policeman. It is just a different way of thinking here. Thai pity dogs if they get put down (humanely). Whereas we see putting diseased/deformed dogs down as a better option than the terrible life they currently live. I have witnessed a policeman being bitten by a dog whose owner was next to him and had bitten many other people in previous years. Policeman did nothing. Wasn't until the dog bit me (farang) that the owner got rid of the dog due to fear of having to pay me. 

It is illegal to harm any dog, so yes, that is not an option. The punishment will be harsher than most Western countries. However, the government does allow humanely putting dogs down in some circumstances. Our municipality allowed the Vet Office to come and lethally inject the diseased/deformed dogs that had been dumped there after the sub-district had a couple cases of rabies. The temples were also wanting their dogs to be put down too and were trying to move on any monks that tried to help the dogs (so much for the continual Buddhist argument). Before the irrational animal lovers come out, when your area has confirmed cases of rabies, you have just found out previous year vaccines haven't worked and you are waiting months on imported vaccines to arrive...you do not have many options. 

Whereas the main city municipality that borders our municipality decided not to put the dogs down. The relevant department directors desperately wanted to, but the Mayor had the same Thai pity thinking (even with rabid non-owned dogs being found not too far from two of their primary schools). Just gives an idea of the complexities and personalities involved that makes the issue a difficult one (if seeing it from a Thai way of thinking). 

There is a proposed law to tax/tag dogs...450 baht (annual fee) from memory. But that is being met with heavy complaining by the locals so if history tells us anything the chances are it will not get up in the near future. Will be another people in the back of a pick up law. 

The relevant government departments (Vet Office, Public Health etc) are fully aware of the problems, have some solutions and have frequent conferences about the issue. But they are government officers, not politicians...much harder for politicians to get on board if it will cost them their jobs. They want to impose the tax with desexing and vaccinating included. So it will stop people getting 4 or 5 dogs as they will be paying 2,000 odd baht in taxes. It is the locals that are the real hurdle, and the fact the Thai government lack the balls needed sometimes (especially near elections). Also even with that law introduced, many Mayors will refuse to collect the tax as it would be political suicide. The locals even complain about their 20 baht garbage tax (the reason the place is full of rubbish, as this minimal tax doesn't cover anything). 

It is just another one of those things in the country that needs a strong leader to take charge. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by wildewillie89

[redbull707]

On 10/31/2018 at 11:11 AM, CharlieH said:

In an ideal world, pets would be licensed, the revenue used to round up strays, healthy animals offerred for re-homing and unhealthy/unwanted animals destroyed. 

This is Thailand where "live and let live" is the standard, so dont hold your breath, it wont happen, not in our life time.

 

Edit : It is illegal to kill dogs in Thailand.

The topic title has been edited as by your own admission it was used to "attract attention" and could be regarded as "trolling".

Trolling? By your definition, all magazine titles are trolling. It's marketing 101. We can stretch definitions and nit pick about grammar and spelling, but at the end of the day, shouldn't we stay focused on solving problems like harassment of citizens and expats by an out of control stray dog population. It's arguing about the small insigificant things that make living in the WEST so unbearable. England, USA and Australia. Everyone has an opinion, preference and pet peeve and the traffic noise of everyone complaining prevents any real action form taking place. I've noticed here on this site that some people like to be "spelling /english police". I'm not sure if these are the people who work 70 hours a week at Wall Street english and, thus, cannot stop teaching or if these are just bored lonely friend-less farangs who just want to feel important somewhere. I'm not sure, but I'm a member here for good-ol-fashion Western problem solving. And yes, I realized that english is spelled with a capital E. Sorry, this is my own personal pet-peeve. It's kinda like when your driving on the highway and there's always that one <deleted> who creates traffic because he/she drives the speed limit on purpose instead of driving with the faster flow of traffic because they want to teach everyone a lesson on road safety. You know what I mean? Let's just stay focused. 2 million stray dogs in Thailand. Let's work together to solve this because I'm sure there are others searching google for solutions on this and we have an opportunity to not only be a top search result, but also to give practical solutions instead of bickering about things that don't matter. Am I wrong? 

[redbull707]

On 10/31/2018 at 11:15 AM, Cochrane said:

I believe the thai solution to problem dogs is to feed them some special food that quietens them down ... permanently. That does not mean that you should adopt the thai way yourself, but perhaps you could mention that a certain animal is a problem to the thai person with perhaps a 500b thank you.

Myself, I live near a house that has five noisy little buggers. I bought a plastic chicken from a market that makes a loud crowing noise when you squeeze it. It used to drive the Shitzus crazy. After a while the owner got the message and now keeps them inside for the most part. One last thought, dogs rarely bite the hand that feeds them, so you could try to make friends with the dog(s) by giving them some leftover food now and again.

It all depends on how much of the dog's behaviour is intolerable.   

Someday, I will wear my gopro and bicycle as normal. You got to see it to believe it. I only see this in thailand about the dogs. Sorry about the title of this post, everyone! I thought it was a clever way to get attention. The internet can be so sensitive! I guess a few bad apples over the decades have destroyed free speech.   

Edited November 1, 2018 by redbull707
grammar mistake

[redbull707]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

Firstly, whether farang or Thai, government departments treat you the same if you follow the correct procedures.

Not in my experience. Police have always sided with the Thais. In the USA, particularly California, it's more fair. If you can't speak English, you get a translator and the judge will listen to you. I haven't been to court in Thailand, I've only been to the Police and they are the laziest group of idiots. The detective lost the CCTV to the guy who stole my 20k Italian bike 2 times! I was never updated about my case either. When they caught the theif, I wasn't called or notified despite the fact that they have my phone number and email. You know the movie, Deadpool? Deadpool is famous for saying, "Maximum Effort" before going into battle as a way to build confidence and do a good job. If that character was representative of the Thai government about farang, he would say "geen kao! bai non!" In sharp contrast, when my Thai girlfriend (young like me) complained to the police about her boss making her work too much. The judicial system metaphorically-bows down to her and forces her Chinese employer to give her 50k THB in unemploymet for causing stress. I've lived in Thailand for 6 years which isn't as much as most of you guys, but we all know the system is bias towards locals (as it should be!). This is Thailand, not Farangland. Sometimes we forget and assume that it should be like our home countries. What do you think? 

[redbull707]

2 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

There is a proposed law to tax/tag dogs...450 baht (annual fee) from memory. But that is being met with heavy complaining by the locals so if history tells us anything the chances are it will not get up in the near future. Will be another people in the back of a pick up law. 

Thank you very much for this update. I'll search about it online to find out more ????

[redbull707]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:59 AM, robblok said:

No its not legal to kill dogs.. it is actually punishable. 

 

You could start a petition maybe it helps.

 

I do find it telling that yet an other American starts about killing dogs, maybe being a vigilante is a bit more normal over there then in Europe. 

You are correct, its not legal to kill dogs. I think everyone knows that.  0 points. 

 

I could start a petition. That's useful information. 1 point. 

 

I find it telling that you stereotype people so quickly without asking question to understand them. If all Europeans are the brilliant descendants of the Age of Enlightenment, then wouldn't they use their philiosopher mind to understand people before making quick remarks? 0 points.  

 

Are you implying that being a vivilante is more normal in the USA than in Europe? It makes sense on the outside. American's are shooting each other, while the European are eating their wine and cheese whilst disagreeing in a french accent? According to a very quick google search, we are actually very similar in terms of modern day vigilantes. London and NYC are roughly the same population and according to the Independant, London has 22 murders in March 2018 while NYC had 21. But if you want to argue that the UK isn't part of Europe, we can look to history - Europe is the location of the most bloodiest horrific acts of violence: the crusades, 3rd Reich, ect. Just because I am opposed to my governments irresponsible drug wars, ridiculous support of guns for citizens, ect, I'll give you 1 point. But you shouldn't ALL Americans are gun happy cowboys. I hate guns and violence. You would know if you asked questions.   

 

Ok, that's 2 correct of 4 points. Lets try better next time! Lesson learned: don't assume. ask questions. remain curious. people treat others the same as they are treated. smart replies get smart responses. 

[bkkcanuck8]

I have lots of dogs near me, walk by them every day.  I actually say a friendly hi to them (silence can be threatening IMHO).  A dog coming near you and barking is not threatening unless he is showing you his fangs - and most dogs just bark... You turn around and look at them and they back off to keep their distance...  Mistreating them (caring a stick - like pepper spray) and you will have much more problems in the future because dogs remember mistreatment... (i.e. dogs pepper sprayed by postmen really really tend to become much more annoyed the next time they see him).  I have zero-fear of any dogs... not sure if that is also a factor that comes across.  Maybe if you have a problem dog that you don't get along with... try feeding it... it might cost you some food... but most assuredly it would be appreciated.

 

 

 

[wildewillie89]

50 minutes ago, redbull707 said:

Not in my experience. Police have always sided with the Thais. In the USA, particularly California, it's more fair. If you can't speak English, you get a translator and the judge will listen to you. I haven't been to court in Thailand, I've only been to the Police and they are the laziest group of idiots. The detective lost the CCTV to the guy who stole my 20k Italian bike 2 times! I was never updated about my case either. When they caught the theif, I wasn't called or notified despite the fact that they have my phone number and email. You know the movie, Deadpool? Deadpool is famous for saying, "Maximum Effort" before going into battle as a way to build confidence and do a good job. If that character was representative of the Thai government about farang, he would say "geen kao! bai non!" In sharp contrast, when my Thai girlfriend (young like me) complained to the police about her boss making her work too much. The judicial system metaphorically-bows down to her and forces her Chinese employer to give her 50k THB in unemploymet for causing stress. I've lived in Thailand for 6 years which isn't as much as most of you guys, but we all know the system is bias towards locals (as it should be!). This is Thailand, not Farangland. Sometimes we forget and assume that it should be like our home countries. What do you think? 

Different variables may be at play depending on the province people live. For example, touristy areas probably make farangs pretty easy targets.

I have only been here 3 years (moved here when I was 26) and have had no problems with the local authorities (police, Tessaban and now District Office). Any nuisance I have complained about (i.e. burning off near my children or excessive noise near my children) has been dealt with. There are always similar nuisances coming up on this forum, and the same comments generally come up. A third of the people who respond have gone through correct procedures successfully, another third have never tried and go off TV myths or have had one bad experience and think it is the end of the world so give up, and then the last third have absolutely no idea (Mrs also has no idea) or are so bored in life they just comment as it is the highlight of their day. 

Thai police, like many government officials, can be incredibly lazy sometimes. What country you are from doesn't mean anything though, more who you know. For example. one dealing I have had at the police station was when I lost my work permit. One of the policemen recognised me and put me in front of the 20 Thai people waiting before me. A similar thing has happened at Immigration, although that was obviously with other farang. 

Maybe divorce or custody battles may give Thai an edge. But is that a country thing or a gender thing. As we all know, Western countries generally give the female the edge with these sorts of proceedings as well. From the half credible experiences on TV, those who get proper representation usually do okay out of them, those who go on the cheap get rolled over. The same as back home. 

It is the same with nearly all government departments in Thai though. For example, if you know a nurse/doctor you get a 1-10 ticket at arrive at 9am rather than arriving at 7am and having to wait for hours at a hospital with your 120 ticket. Doesn't matter if you are Thai or farang, just if you know someone. 

I had to push a policeman away from trying to stick his dirty hand near my daughter's mouth at Tesco last weekend. Even physically pushing him hard enough for him to lose balance and take a step back resulted in him apologising in front a crowd for not asking to touch my child (think of the loss of face). If a Thai had of done that to him, a completely different outcome. 

Most of my family are all government (mayors, police, directors, army. teachers etc), so I see it from the inside looking out, rather than outside looking in. Many Thai get a much harder time than the farang on TV. One of many things wrong with the country is the class system. 

Let me know if you cant find anything on the dog tax and I will ask the Mrs. She was one of the people who proposed it (Public Health Director). Her answer to the issue of Thai getting favourable treatment - 'if the farang knows the system he will take me to the Army tribunal where I will get in a lot of trouble. So I treat farang the same as Thai as Public Health law tells me to'. 

[Nyezhov]

I like when they take a magic marker and draw eyebrows on them. I have been seeing a lot of cute dogs lately (and a lot of mangy ones too).

[1FinickyOne]

I don't think the dogs will be able to read or care about the petition... but you can try - - or you can move... personally I would not have moved there in the first place, there are choices. I love dogs too... 

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I have lots of dogs near me, walk by them every day.  I actually say a friendly hi to them (silence can be threatening IMHO).  A dog coming near you and barking is not threatening unless he is showing you his fangs - and most dogs just bark... You turn around and look at them and they back off to keep their distance...  Mistreating them (caring a stick - like pepper spray) and you will have much more problems in the future because dogs remember mistreatment... (i.e. dogs pepper sprayed by postmen really really tend to become much more annoyed the next time they see him).  I have zero-fear of any dogs... not sure if that is also a factor that comes across.  Maybe if you have a problem dog that you don't get along with... try feeding it... it might cost you some food... but most assuredly it would be appreciated.

 

 

 

Absolutely right. It can take a while sometimes but almost any dog will quickly become your friend if you show it some kindness. If it takes a long time it’s usually because it’s had bad experiences with humans. In general dogs like human contact, they just don’t always get it in the right way

[topt]

45 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Let me know if you cant find anything on the dog tax

One article here - hopefully the OP is smart enough to have a done a search anyway.......

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by topt

[androokery]

1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I have lots of dogs near me, walk by them every day.  I actually say a friendly hi to them (silence can be threatening IMHO).  A dog coming near you and barking is not threatening unless he is showing you his fangs - and most dogs just bark... You turn around and look at them and they back off to keep their distance...  Mistreating them (caring a stick - like pepper spray) and you will have much more problems in the future because dogs remember mistreatment... (i.e. dogs pepper sprayed by postmen really really tend to become much more annoyed the next time they see him).  I have zero-fear of any dogs... not sure if that is also a factor that comes across.  Maybe if you have a problem dog that you don't get along with... try feeding it... it might cost you some food... but most assuredly it would be appreciated.

 

 

 

Whenever I come across this kind of attitude towards feral dogs, I am reminded of Timothy Treadwell a.k.a. Grizzly Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man).

[Thingamabob]

Killing anything that moves seems to be something <removed> enjoy. Try to get on with these animals in Thailand. They are far less dangerous than you appear to believe.

[Moonlover]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 10:47 AM, redbull707 said:

Did you know that dogs are the most dangerous animal to humans? That's right! More people die a year from dogs than any other animal. According to the World Atlas, "Dogs kill 25,000 people yearly. These deaths are not because of vicious maulings by household pets, however. Feral and stray dogs infected with rabies attack people and spread the disease."

If those persons who had been bitten by a rabid dog had sought treatment following the bite, the death could have been prevented. So attributing the deaths to dogs, is actually a distortion of the facts. More correctly, the deaths should be attributed to man due either to ignorance or intransigence.

 

If one was to dig in further, you would probably find that most of those death are in dirt poor countries where treatment is not readily available. The last figure I saw for Thailand was 17 deaths this year. All of those could have been prevented had the victims sought treatment.

 

I live in rural Issan, in a small village with almost as many dogs as there are humans and I'm a keen walker. Nearly all the dogs are free to roam. Most of he kids are also free to roam and, of course I'm out there too.

 

The dogs trouble no one. I walk daily and know every one of them. None show any signs of aggression. Some even greet me now and come over for a petting and I haven't heard of a single incident in the year that I have lived here.

 

In our little corner of the planet, when it comes to man and dog, it's very much live and let live.

[Patriot1066]

3 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I have lots of dogs near me, walk by them every day.  I actually say a friendly hi to them (silence can be threatening IMHO).  A dog coming near you and barking is not threatening unless he is showing you his fangs - and most dogs just bark... You turn around and look at them and they back off to keep their distance...  Mistreating them (caring a stick - like pepper spray) and you will have much more problems in the future because dogs remember mistreatment... (i.e. dogs pepper sprayed by postmen really really tend to become much more annoyed the next time they see him).  I have zero-fear of any dogs... not sure if that is also a factor that comes across.  Maybe if you have a problem dog that you don't get along with... try feeding it... it might cost you some food... but most assuredly it would be appreciated.

 

 

 

Dogs can sense fear they are pack animals if they sense weakness they might react as its part of establishing their place in the pecking order.

 

our house is in a gated development so we don’t get an issue now, but when we lived in the condo I used to keep a few little bits and give them one they soon seem to become friendly? I’m talking little dog type biscuits not steak and that sort of thing. The only issue is I used to forget to take them out so come wash day boy did I not only fear the digs????

[Unify]

Dogs are not even close to the most dangerous animal in the world. That honor goes to mosquitoes, causing somewhere around 725,000 deaths a year.

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, Unify said:

Dogs are not even close to the most dangerous animal in the world. That honor goes to mosquitoes, causing somewhere around 725,000 deaths a year.

Pesky statistics strike again????????????????

[Hank Gunn]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:59 AM, robblok said:

No its not legal to kill dogs.. it is actually punishable. 

 

You could start a petition maybe it helps.

 

I do find it telling that yet an other American starts about killing dogs, maybe being a vigilante is a bit more normal over there then in Europe. 

Unless something's been changed/edited (either in the title or the OP) I see no mention of killing dogs. Only the problem with Thais' lack of responsibility in taking care of their dogs and of potentially starting a petition.

 

I find it telling that another Euro feels the need to disparage America over a post about the dog problem in Thailand.

 

OK, just read where the title of the OP had been edited. (Still doesn't merit the disparagement of America. Seems like it's just the popular thing to do on TV.)

Edited November 1, 2018 by Hank Gunn

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, androokery said:

Whenever I come across this kind of attitude towards feral dogs, I am reminded of Timothy Treadwell a.k.a. Grizzly Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man).

Theee is a huge difference between befriending a Grizzly Bear and dealing with a "feral" dog.

[dotpoom]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:56 AM, johng said:

Recent law change gives dogs more rights than humans !

...so killing them is certainly not legal.

Could start a "swingers" club...read about it on here.

[Moonlover]

27 minutes ago, Unify said:

Dogs are not even close to the most dangerous animal in the world. That honor goes to mosquitoes, causing somewhere around 725,000 deaths a year.

And when it comes to the most dangerous mammal. It is man himself who is the greatest threat. Some 475,000 people per year are killed by their own species.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Moonlover