Khashoggi murder outcry threatens U.S.-Saudi ties, Saudi prince says

[webfact]

Khashoggi murder outcry threatens U.S.-Saudi ties, Saudi prince says

By Jonathan Landay

 

FILE PHOTO: Friends of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi hold posters and banners with his pictures during a demonstration outside the Saudi Arabia consulate in Istanbul, Turkey October 25, 2018. REUTERS/Osman Orsal

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The outcry in the United States demonising Saudi Arabia over the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in the kingdom's consulate in Istanbul threatens U.S.-Saudi strategic ties, the former Saudi intelligence minister warned on Wednesday.

 

"We value our strategic relationship with the United States and hope to sustain it. We hope the United States reciprocates in kind," royal family member Prince Turki bin Faisal al Saud said in an address to the National Council on U.S.-Arab Relations, a non-profit advocacy organisation.

 

Turki, to whom Khashoggi once served as an adviser, has also served as an ambassador to London and Washington. His speech denouncing what he called "the demonisation of Saudi Arabia" clearly carried Riyadh's imprimatur, as he heads an Islamic research centre named after his father, the late King Faisal.

 

Turki's address came after Istanbul's chief prosecutor on Tuesday said that Khashoggi was suffocated in a premeditated killing and his body was then dismembered.

 

Khashoggi, who lived in self-imposed exile in the United States, wrote columns for the Washington Post critical of the kingdom's de facto ruler, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

 

Some U.S. lawmakers have accused the crown prince of ordering Khashoggi's death - a charge that Riyadh denies - and threatened sanctions. U.S. commentators have strongly condemned the kingdom.

 

Recalling that more than 70 years of U.S.-Saudi ties survived previous crises, Turki said, "Nowadays, this relationship is once again threatened."

 

"The tragic and unjustified" slaying of Khashoggi "is the theme of today's onslaught and demonisation of Saudi Arabia in the same fashion as the previous crises. The intensity and gleefulness of it is equally unfair," he said. "Subjecting our relationship to this issue is not healthy at all."

 

Turki reiterated that the kingdom is committed to bringing to justice those responsible for Khashoggi's murder "and whoever else failed to uphold the law."

 

The Trump administration is demanding full accountability from Riyadh in Khashoggi's death. In what it called a first step, it revoked the visas of some Saudi officials implicated in the slaying.

 

The U.S.-Saudi relationship "is too big to fail," Turki said.

 

Those ties, he noted, transcend oil production, trade, arms sales and investment to cooperation on Middle East peace efforts, stabilizing oil markets, fighting extremism and containing Iran, the kingdom's main regional foe.

 

(Reporting by Jonathan Landay; Editing by Mary Milliken and Leslie Adler)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-11-01

[stevenl]

He is correct, should just omit 'outcry' from his statement. Yes, this murder does threaten the ties. In the end nothing will happen though, money trumps.

Edited October 31, 2018 by stevenl

[neeray]

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

He is correct, should just omit 'outcry' from his statement. Yes, this murder does threaten the ties. In the end nothing will happen though, money trumps.

Sad but 'probably' true.

[YetAnother]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

His speech denouncing what he called "the demonisation of Saudi Arabia" clearly carried Riyadh's imprimatur,

didnt say they didnt do it; didnt say it was wrong; clearly just blame-shifting

[mtls2005]

IN potentially related news, normally this sort of thing (Saudi "accidental" deaths in the U.S.) is covered up but...duct-taping yourselves together and then somehow getting out onto the GWB (slowly?) and jumping off seems about as plausible as Mr. Kashoggi accidentally dismembering himself?

 

Police Investigate Mysterious Deaths of Saudi Sisters Found Duct-Taped Together in New York River

 

New York City police are still searching for answers in the case of two Saudi-born sisters found duct-taped together in the Hudson River a week ago.

Police found the fully clothed bodies of 16-year-old Tala Farea and 22-year-old Rotan Ferea washed up in Manhattan on Oct. 24. Police initially believed the sisters committed suicide by jumping off of the nearby George Washington Bridge, but further investigation revealed no signs of trauma that would indicate a plunge from the bridge, police said.

According to police, the sisters' mother said she received a call from the Saudi Embassy in Washington a day before the bodies were discovered informing her that her daughters had been ordered to leave to United States because they had applied for political asylum.

 

http://time.com/5440548/police-investigate-mysterious-deaths-of-saudi-sisters-found-duct-taped-together-in-new-york-river/

 

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by mtls2005

[neeray]

6 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

According to police, the sisters' mother said she received a call from the Saudi Embassy in Washington a day before the bodies were discovered informing her that her daughters had been ordered to leave to United States because they had applied for political asylum.

 

http://time.com/5440548/police-investigate-mysterious-deaths-of-saudi-sisters-found-duct-taped-together-in-new-york-river/

2 + 2 = 4. Go figure. 

My guess is, I think the Saudis are on a tare (or tear if you prefer).

[fakename]

The only answer to this problem, is to execute the 18 suspects, and say they were the only ones involved, then everyone is happy, especially Trump.

[car720]

Take away their oil, end of problem.

I have often wondered what the other countries would do if the US made a move on them.

[Brunolem]

3 minutes ago, fakename said:

The only answer to this problem, is to execute the 18 suspects, and say they were the only ones involved, then everyone is happy, especially Trump.

The problem is that Erdogan won't let go, and he has all the aces in his hand, with the whole thing on tape!

 

It seems that there are frantic ongoing negociations, including notably ending the Qatar (an ally of Turkey) blockade.

 

Meanwhile the Saudi king's brother just came out of retirement in England, back to SA, maybe to supervise MBS, something that the ailing king seems unable to do.

 

For its part, the US will do absolutely nothing, because as Turki rightly said, "the relationship is too big to fail", which translates into: the continuing existence of the pettodollar depends on us, so don't mess up with us!

 

 

 

[Brunolem]

3 minutes ago, car720 said:

Take away their oil, end of problem.

I have often wondered what the other countries would do if the US made a move on them.

Just look how fine it worked in Irak!

No need for other countries to react, local resistance is enough, always enough...

[IAMHERE]

The only answer to this problem, is to execute the 18 suspects, and say they were duped by the CIA and Trump.

[klauskunkel]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

demonisation of Saudi Arabia

Wot? Saudi Arabia = The Great Satan?

well, if the shoe fits...

[stevenl]

35 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The problem is that Erdogan won't let go, and he has all the aces in his hand, with the whole thing on tape!

 

It seems that there are frantic ongoing negociations, including notably ending the Qatar (an ally of Turkey) blockade.

 

Meanwhile the Saudi king's brother just came out of retirement in England, back to SA, maybe to supervise MBS, something that the ailing king seems unable to do.

 

For its part, the US will do absolutely nothing, because as Turki rightly said, "the relationship is too big to fail", which translates into: the continuing existence of the pettodollar depends on us, so don't mess up with us!

 

 

 

Erdogan won't have MbS on tape giving orders. So executing the 18 (only 17 left I think) would suffice.

[Tug]

Nasty guys those Saudis but they need the weapons and because of Donald’s incompetence dealing with Iran we need their oil a real catch 22 if you will

[Brunolem]

38 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Erdogan won't have MbS on tape giving orders. So executing the 18 (only 17 left I think) would suffice.

Erdogan gains nothing from executions, and he obviously wants something, or many things.

 

The relative silence between concerned nations means that he is still holding some serious cards, and that negotiations are ongoing.

 

It may not be MBS directly on tape, but a simple reference to him in the conversations (around 20 intercepted phone calls between the consulate and SA during the event) would be enough to create a scandal, and force everyone to react.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Brunolem

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

Take away their oil, end of problem.

I have often wondered what the other countries would do if the US made a move on them.

Offer the Chinese and EU some oil fields while the Russians see a huge spike in oil prices.

Permanent Security Council not an issue.

 

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

the sisters' mother said she received a call from the Saudi Embassy in Washington a day before the bodies were discovered informing her that her daughters had been ordered to leave to United States because they had applied for political asylum.

That call would have not been secure and various intelligence agencies may have auto-recorded calls made from the S.A. Embassy. Given a time, date and receiving phone number for the call should allow quick access to any intercepted call database.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

The problem is that Erdogan won't let go, and he has all the aces in his hand, with the whole thing on tape!

 

It seems that there are frantic ongoing negociations, including notably ending the Qatar (an ally of Turkey) blockade.

 

Meanwhile the Saudi king's brother just came out of retirement in England, back to SA, maybe to supervise MBS, something that the ailing king seems unable to do.

 

For its part, the US will do absolutely nothing, because as Turki rightly said, "the relationship is too big to fail", which translates into: the continuing existence of the pettodollar depends on us, so don't mess up with us!

 

 

 

 

Said member of the Saud family didn't "come out of retirement". He returned to SA following (apparently) assurances that no harm will come to him following comments which were seen as critical of MbS. He's elderly, and does not have much of a support base to rely on. As far as I recall, he spent most of his official career in the same mediocre position. I doubt he could (or would dare to) "supervise" MbS, if the King was to support such a move.

 

 

[Brunolem]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Said member of the Saud family didn't "come out of retirement". He returned to SA following (apparently) assurances that no harm will come to him following comments which were seen as critical of MbS. He's elderly, and does not have much of a support base to rely on. As far as I recall, he spent most of his official career in the same mediocre position. I doubt he could (or would dare to) "supervise" MbS, if the King was to support such a move.

 

 

The latest is that these assurances were given by the US and the UK, no less...

And how could they do that, if they didn't have the same assurances from the SA government and/or military?

Rumors are that he could well replace the actual king, then get rid of MBS.

We will see soon enough...

Edited November 1, 2018 by Brunolem

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

The only answer to this problem, is to execute the 18 suspects, and say they were duped by the CIA and Trump.

money talks and trump doesn't want to loose the arms deal, nothing will happen, another week goes by and it all be under the rug

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The latest is that these assurances were given by the US and the UK, no less...

And how could they do that, if they didn't have the same assurances from the SA government and/or military?

Rumors are that he could well replace the actual king, then get rid of MBS.

We will see soon enough...

 

An actual reference for the alleged "latest", preferably from a credible source, would be nice. All the more so since your argument is based on the assertion made. Same goes for them "rumors" you cite.

 

 

[Brunolem]

41 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

An actual reference for the alleged "latest", preferably from a credible source, would be nice. All the more so since your argument is based on the assertion made. Same goes for them "rumors" you cite.

 

 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-saudi-dissident-prince-flies-home-tackle-mbs-succession-58983364

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-saudi-dissident-prince-flies-home-tackle-mbs-succession-58983364

 

Guess you missed (or ignored) the credible part. The source cited is hardly unbiased or lacking in agenda when it comes to related topics. Relying on such is a theme with your posts.

 

 

[Brunolem]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Guess you missed (or ignored) the credible part. The source cited is hardly unbiased or lacking in agenda when it comes to related topics. Relying on such is a theme with your posts.

 

 

I am not relying on the source, just relaying what is written.

 

No one can say with certainty if what is said is wrong or right...only time will tell...

 

Meanwhile, it seems a bit simplistic to rate the validity of everything that is said, according to the bias of those who provide the information.

 

According to such a theory, everything that is said by corporation CEOs about their companies is not reliable, because they obviously have a bias!

 

This argument is used by many climate change deniers, who say that the scientists are biased, thus not credible, because they make a living out of their papers!

 

[Morch]

52 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

I am not relying on the source, just relaying what is written.

 

No one can say with certainty if what is said is wrong or right...only time will tell...

 

Meanwhile, it seems a bit simplistic to rate the validity of everything that is said, according to the bias of those who provide the information.

 

According to such a theory, everything that is said by corporation CEOs about their companies is not reliable, because they obviously have a bias!

 

This argument is used by many climate change deniers, who say that the scientists are biased, thus not credible, because they make a living out of their papers!

 

 

To follow your "logic", if something is written then...what? I specifically mentioned "credible", as there's no lack of conspiracy theories and rumors when it comes to ME affairs. You wish to spin - have at it, that's pretty much what you do on many occasions when the sources you cite are challenged. As for the "no one can say" drivel, you seem to alternate between positions asserting knowledge, then backtracking when support is on short supply.

 

It is not "simplistic" to address the bias and history of sources. More befitting the habit of ignoring such. And, of course, there was no "theory" such as you made up. Deflect away.

 

Topic ain't about climate change, if case you "missed" it as well.

[observer90210]

Hard to believe that US-Saudi ties will be affected, besides some cosmetic and demagogical ranting in public.

 

Multi billion dollars involved in arms or oil deals create very strong "ties of friendship" !!

[natway09]

Hope it does ,,, but doubt it will. It's the money u no

[Grouse]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

Recalling that more than 70 years of U.S.-Saudi ties survived previous crises, Turki said, "Nowadays, this relationship is once again threatened."

I should bloody well think so too....it's certainly not before time!

[bristolboy]

9 hours ago, Brunolem said:

I am not relying on the source, just relaying what is written.

 

No one can say with certainty if what is said is wrong or right...only time will tell...

 

Meanwhile, it seems a bit simplistic to rate the validity of everything that is said, according to the bias of those who provide the information.

 

According to such a theory, everything that is said by corporation CEOs about their companies is not reliable, because they obviously have a bias!

 

This argument is used by many climate change deniers, who say that the scientists are biased, thus not credible, because they make a living out of their papers!

 

corporate CEO's have independent auditors to check their books. So no, ultimately there is a reality chec on them.

Climate deniers have their own dubious sources, and when they are challenged about them, invoke exactly the same argument you advanced here.

[Sydebolle]

Maybe its time to call an egg an egg, a horse a horse and a demon a demon. Needless to say that those Saudi camel sha"*ç%"ç%ers need to be warped into the 21st century to qualify being a member of this planet's society, sit on the security council and contribute human values to their people as well. 

But yes, porky pig MBS thinks that with his 33 years of age he is the next best thing after sliced bread - he might be wrong; again!