Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[NanLaew]

42 minutes ago, Media1 said:

AU government are violating citizens rights in the first place petition time

Thai Immigration doesn't care about that. It's none of their business.

 

40 minutes ago, Media1 said:

I can verify my income on a government website. So there excuse is not good enough.

And Thai Immigration doesn't care that you can do that either.

 

But I'm happy for you that you can.

[MaxYakov]

7 minutes ago, jimn said:

Its been discussed on the BE and US threads but I will post on here as its the latest topic. Currently I get an embassy latter for my retirement extension and I prove my 65,000 thai baht and its based on GROSS income. The situation now we are led to believe is that we should transfer 65,000 thai baht into our thai bank accounts at NET income. Now that is a major change from before. For me personally I only stay in Thailand for 7 months out of 12 so transferring 65,000 into a Thai account is a non starter. I prefer to keep my money in the UK. There are many of us who choose to transfer small amounts into Thailand when cash is needed and use a no fee credit/debit card for other purchases. This is the 21st century, cash is a dying method of payment. In the UK many people use a contactless card or a mobile app for everything and hardly ever use cash. 

 

Hmmm. I used to wire transfer relatively large amounts in to a Thai Bank until my credit union (a banking institution) stopped offering international wire transfers as a service. At that point, I began using my debit card at exchange windows and simply taking the cash home. Eventually my Thai bank closed my account due to disuse and low balances (eaten up by maintenance fees). Not given to impulse purchases, carrying just enough cash for small, routine (or premeditated) purchases I found to be very practical and economical.

 

I found much less bureaucratic overhead (aka hassle) using the debit card/cash approach than that the overhead of wire transfers, deposits, ATM machine withdrawals, etc. I have a credit card, but it's much more expensive to draw cash on it so I rarely use it (virtually never) for purchases in Thailand.

 

Funny how we ended up on opposite sides of the "dying cash" issue being the 21^st century and all. I never preferred credit cards over cash anyway due to privacy and security issues (I've been burned by unauthorized / fraudulent credit card use in the past and not reimbursed by the credit card institution). Also, there is a rather draconian thing my government has regarding possession of foreign bank accounts by its citizens which I will not go into here.

 

Also, I own, but do not use, a so-called  "smart phone". I use a phone when I just want to talk or text someone, not to conduct business or surf the web so I use a "dumb phones". I believe too many people are addicted to smart phones, but that's a discussion for another topic.

 

Regards.

[ozz1]

Im going to be interested what's going to happen over the next few months maybe the visa agents will make a killing but It will be interesting what happens  to the property prices if this is a visa  crackdown  or just trying to weed out the dodgy falang its just many falang have invested here and if there is a exodus if if small it surely will affect the market and maybe the baht we will see

[NanLaew]

26 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I don't think it is a case of cannot but more like will not verify even a government pension

Possibly their verification process is not nearly as resilient as the Dutch, German and (allegedly) Swedish pension verification processes are?

[NanLaew]

26 minutes ago, Media1 said:

Well they will be verified mine. Because I will have proof live inline right there and then. They must give a letter or stat dec

How do I get the impression that you're PWP... posting while pissed?

[acepredator]

Any indication how long until the embassy of the Great White North, sometimes known as Canada, follows suit and stops issuing verification of income letters like the Great Western (and Southern) Powers have done? My renewal is due soon so any pertinent information would be greatly appreciated. There is nothing more knowledgeable than the Voice Of Experience. Thanks, as always, in advance. 

[NanLaew]

17 minutes ago, ReMarKable said:

Could be Thai people are racists?

Oh wow!... now that's an original thought, eh?

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

Hmmm. I used to wire transfer relatively large amounts in to a Thai Bank until my credit union (a banking institution) stopped offering international wire transfers as a service. At that point, I began using my debit card at exchange windows and simply taking the cash home. Eventually my Thai bank closed my account due to disuse and low balances (eaten up by maintenance fees). Not given to impulse purchases, carrying just enough cash for small, routine (or premeditated) purchases I found to be very practical and economical.

 

I found much less bureaucratic overhead (aka hassle) using the debit card/cash approach than that the overhead of wire transfers, deposits, ATM machine withdrawals, etc. I have a credit card, but it's much more expensive to draw cash on it so I rarely use it (virtually never) for purchases in Thailand.

 

Funny how we ended up on opposite sides of the "dying cash" issue being the 21^st century and all. I never preferred credit cards over cash anyway due to privacy and security issues (I've been burned by unauthorized / fraudulent credit card use in the past and not reimbursed by the credit card institution). Also, there is a rather draconian thing my government has regarding possession of foreign bank accounts by its citizens which I will not go into here.

 

Also, I own, but do not use, a so-called  "smart phone". I use a phone when I just want to talk or text someone, not to conduct business or surf the web so I use a "dumb phones". I believe too many people are addicted to smart phones, but that's a discussion for another topic.

 

Regards.

I've read this three times and can't figure out what it has to do with the topic? 

[NanLaew]

9 minutes ago, ozz1 said:

Im going to be interested what's going to happen over the next few months maybe the visa agents will make a killing but It will be interesting what happens  to the property prices if this is a visa  crackdown  or just trying to weed out the dodgy falang its just many falang have invested here and if there is a exodus if if small it surely will affect the market and maybe the baht we will see

We am great post of the day award goes to...

[Zack61]

Can I assume affidavits will be accepted until 7 January? My next retirement extension is later this month. I have the funds but just not in a Thai bank. 

I guess I’ll find out soon. Will let you know how it goes. Hope I don’t get the immigration nazi. 

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I've read this three times and can't figure out what it has to do with the topic? 

Latter day Luddites have always been a bit of a conundrum, especially the impoverished ones.

[Kalasin Jo]

9 hours ago, Will27 said:

I don't think the OAP meets the financial requirements anyway.

 

I'd suggest most of the Aussies would have more than just the pension.

I don't know about Aussie state pensions, but the British single persons state pension is now below the required amount. It wasn't  2 years ago, now I wonder why that is.

 

Anyway it looks like I'm stuffed for my renewal in January as I have not brought in 40k baht per month this year ( marriage extensions) and I can't add enough now to cover the situation, as I was not expecting this. I do have letters from my pensions providers, state and private confirming in English that I receive enough, and I have applied for a British Embassy letter, but it's not remitted to Thailand and as I say I haven't been remitting enough to my Thai bank account, for reasons I won't go in to here and I don't now have available funds to make up the shortfall without paying 30% tax on it, which I'm not willing nor can afford to do. My wife is understandably not happy. Nor am I! If anyone has any ideas other than to leave when my current extension expires and then start all over again, I'd be glad to hear.

 

Something official from Thai Immigration would help too. I don't believe the regulations as they are require actual remittance, the term is earnings, but others have already posted that some IOs are now asking for Thai bank statements showing preceding 12 months remittances adding up to 440,000 or simply telling applicants to show a deposit of 400k sitting in the bank for 2 months

[NanLaew]

Just now, Zack61 said:

Can I assume affidavits will be accepted until 7 January? My next retirement extension is later this month. I have the funds but just not in a Thai bank. 

I guess I’ll find out soon. Will let you know how it goes. Hope I don’t get the immigration nazi. 

Affidavits?

 

This is the Australian Embassy personal income statutory declaration thread.

[The Names Bond]

10 hours ago, Russell17au said:

The thing is that anyone who is on a government pension can prove their income quite easy and it is also easy for the embassies to be able to verify government pensions. It would not take much for each of the embassies to have access to the amounts that are paid for the different government pensions. I can print mine out of official Australian government letterhead and it tells the type of pension that I am receiving so how hard would it be for the embassies to have a list of the different government pensions to check.

Why should our own Embassies be involved? Extra work and checking etc. It will be very straightforward now showing the figures required in a Thai Bank Account. It will save us paying for this embassy letter so quids in. I believe there have been too many dodgy dealings by some persons using companies which are dishonestly showing that Farang has sufficient funds to live here. Everyone knows it goes on but nothing has been done about it until now. Thailand, as we all know, has many corrupt practices and it would appear they are trying to become more honest. A large task for sure but they have to start somewhere.

[jimn]

12 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

Hmmm. I used to wire transfer relatively large amounts in to a Thai Bank until my credit union (a banking institution) stopped offering international wire transfers as a service. At that point, I began using my debit card at exchange windows and simply taking the cash home. Eventually my Thai bank closed my account due to disuse and low balances (eaten up by maintenance fees). Not given to impulse purchases, carrying just enough cash for small, routine (or premeditated) purchases I found to be very practical and economical.

 

I found much less bureaucratic overhead (aka hassle) using the debit card/cash approach than that the overhead of wire transfers, deposits, ATM machine withdrawals, etc. I have a credit card, but it's much more expensive to draw cash on it so I rarely use it (virtually never) for purchases in Thailand.

 

Funny how we ended up on opposite sides of the "dying cash" issue being the 21^st century and all. I never preferred credit cards over cash anyway due to privacy and security issues (I've been burned by unauthorized / fraudulent credit card use in the past and not reimbursed by the credit card institution). Also, there is a rather draconian thing my government has regarding possession of foreign bank accounts by its citizens which I will not go into here.

 

Also, I own, but do not use, a so-called  "smart phone". I use a phone when I just want to talk or text someone, not to conduct business or surf the web so I use a "dumb phones". I believe too many people are addicted to smart phones, but that's a discussion for another topic.

 

Regards.

I tend to bring over from the UK a large cash amount to last me the 7 months I am here as I know what a cash oriented country Thailand still is. I use my Halifax Clarity Credit Card for purchases from Tesco Lotus, Big C and for petrol for the car. Its a no foreign transaction card with mastercard foreign transaction rates simlar to forex. I am no youngster but I do find a smartphone useful. Especially to check my online bank statements and buy online etc. If used right they are just a portable computer. I know they can be very additive but thats down to the indivudual. I now would be lost without one.

[Zack61]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Affidavits?

 

This is the Australian Embassy personal income statutory declaration thread.

Substitute stat dec for affidavit and the question remains the same

[Kerryd]

Just now, ozz1 said:

Im going to be interested what's going to happen over the next few months maybe the visa agents will make a killing but It will be interesting what happens  to the property prices if this is a visa  crackdown  or just trying to weed out the dodgy falang its just many falang have invested here and if there is a exodus if if small it surely will affect the market and maybe the baht we will see

I suspect that no one will even notice any difference. 
I believe that there are a lot of people, from a lot of countries, that have been using the "income method" because they don't actually have the income and have been able to get away with it for years.

 

However, it won't be any different than when they changed the rules about "visa runs" and stopped giving people unlimited 30 Day stamps at the land borders. It was all "doom and gloom" and "Thailand's economy will collapse" and "everyone will be selling everything".

And none of that happened.

Some people will have to make some hard choices. Some may have to move elsewhere. 

It won't be a "firesale" of foreigners suddenly fleeing the country.

 

And if it was, it would prove that most of them actually couldn't meet the requirements and actually had been scamming the system all along.

*Note I said "most of them" - not "all of them". Wouldn't want to be accused of saying that everyone that uses the Income Method is a cheater. Again. That would be "appalling".

 

[jimn]

29 minutes ago, ReMarKable said:

Could be Thai people are racists?

No question about that

[amdy2206]

I still don't understand where the problem is. You need to have money in the bank to live here - if you have, great. If not, you do not qualify to stay. Very simple. You need to have your income monthly into a Thai bank. If you do, where is the problem? If you can't, you don't qualify to live here. It is very simple. Do you qualify, or not? If so, stay, if not, go home. I would never think of leaving that much in a Thai bank, hence I would not live in Thailand. I live in Laos instead.

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, Zack61 said:

Substitute stat dec for affidavit and the question remains the same

Although the Australian Embassy won't do them after 7th Jan, at this point in time it is understood that they will be accepted for up to 6 months by Thai Immigration.

Edited November 2, 2018 by NanLaew

[gentlemanjackdarby]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

First paragraph says there are strict privacy laws.

 

The second paragraph suggests that the strictness and privacy can be quickly and individually relaxed so private individuals can do something trivial such as pitch their tent in Thailand.

 

Nope, sorry, I don't see how one can work with the other.

Here's how and why it works:

 

In the U.S., and likely other countries as well, the privacy applies to the disclosure of my  personal information held by Social Security, my broker, my banker, etc. to third parties without my consent which would be, in this case, embassy employees if they asked Social Security directly for the amount of my monthly retirement benefit.

 

I'm free to disclose the amount of my Social Security retirement benefit, or brokerage balances and holdings, or bank account balances and transactions to anyone I choose and no laws are broken.

 

So if I sit at a computer under the watchful eye of any embassy employee, log into my Social Security account, brokerage account, etc., bring up my benefits letter, brokerage balance letter, or bank statement, print it, and the embassy employee certifies it, no privacy laws are broken.

 

In that scenario, everyone wins - Social Security et al have safeguarded my information and not disclosed it to third-parties, embassy employees have verified the numbers and truthfully certified that they are correct, Thai Immigration gets a verified and certified piece of paper for their files, and I get an extension of stay.

 

The extra step of logging into a website and printing a letter or a statement should only take a couple of minutes more than the current process at the embassy and should be trivial for folks living in the 21st century.

[Zack61]

3 minutes ago, amdy2206 said:

I still don't understand where the problem is. You need to have money in the bank to live here - if you have, great. If not, you do not qualify to stay. Very simple. You need to have your income monthly into a Thai bank. If you do, where is the problem? If you can't, you don't qualify to live here. It is very simple. Do you qualify, or not? If so, stay, if not, go home. I would never think of leaving that much in a Thai bank, hence I would not live in Thailand. I live in Laos instead.

How difficult is it to get a Lao visa?

[Zack61]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Although the Australian Embassy won't do them after 7th Jan, at this point in time it is understood that they will be accepted for up to 6 months by Thai Immigration.

Cheers big ears. 

[Kerryd]

14 minutes ago, acepredator said:

Any indication how long until the embassy of the Great White North, sometimes known as Canada, follows suit and stops issuing verification of income letters like the Great Western (and Southern) Powers have done? My renewal is due soon so any pertinent information would be greatly appreciated. There is nothing more knowledgeable than the Voice Of Experience. Thanks, as always, in advance. 

I don't need the letter but was curious what the Canadian embassy might have to say about it.

 

More silent than a calm night on the Prairies in the middle of winter. Not a whisper.

 

The site sucks as well. If you "register" they want to know when your "trip" is and 18 months later delete your information so if you are here long term you'd have to go renew your registration every year and a half (to get next to no info from them in any event I suspect).

From the site - they don't even mention Income letters or "notarizing" anything. I know they did "certified true copies" of dad's death certificate years ago, but I've never had them "notarize" anything. I do see on one page where they mention "notary service" (under "Hours of Operation) but no details.
Their last "news" article is dated 20 Sept.
http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/thailand-thailande/consular_services_consulaires/index.aspx?lang=eng

I'm kind of surprised they weren't the first (or second) Embassy to do away with this.

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

they aren't being refused per se, the 3 embassies have merely said they wont issue them in future, if they did they would no doubt be accepted.

Irrelevant, because they are no longer being issued. Purely hypothetical.

[MaxYakov]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I've read this three times and can't figure out what it has to do with the topic? 

You're not another PWP candidate I hope.

 

A central issue of this thread is the verification of income though placing funds into a Thai bank account to establish income or deposit as required by Thai Immigration. Does that ring a bell? Did you not understand my position w/r to Thai bank accounts and my experience and use (actually non-use) of them? Did you not notice the Like and the Thanks reactions given my reply?

 

Now, please give this reply a Like reaction, eh? Or at least a Thanks. In your case, I'd probably settle for a Confused.

[Ebumbu]

10 hours ago, Will27 said:

I've got no idea TBH.

 

But at the moment, for some it might be the only option.

 

Does this mean getting a Type O visa for purposes of retirement with very little scrutiny from these embassies? Even if that were possible, it's only good for 3 months before needing to be extended in Thailand. I don't understand this "loophole." Would like to know this option. Like many others, I'm trying to figure out a plan.  ????

 

 

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Thai Immigration still accept Incomes Letter from Embassies who continue to provide these letters. (More than 50!)

Looks like it's difficult for you to admit that you can be wrong... 

I'm referring to the 3 embassies that have stopped issuing them, after all that what this post is about, not the embassies that still issue them, or don't you understand that?

[Ebumbu]

10 minutes ago, Zack61 said:

How difficult is it to get a Lao visa?

 

Approved on entry as American. Have been there twice. You pay, you stay. It was maybe $100? I understand you need to make a visa run every 60 days, forever. Could be wrong. That's inconvenient, but I understand Westerners can stay there indefinitely. I think it's also true of Cambodia and Vietnam. I'm reporting hearsay info though. Anyone want to confirm or deny? 

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Thai Immigration still accept Incomes Letter from Embassies who continue to provide these letters. (More than 50!)

Looks like it's difficult for you to admit that you can be wrong... 

Is it in existence for the Aussie, Brits or Americans? Is this post about the Aussie income letter? Have I referred to any other embassies in my comments?