Thailand’s English proficiency is getting worse: study

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

And "tske", maybe better if he doesn't join the ranks of the unqualified, useless teachers ????

1

But he is clearly an expert!

 

The (our) ranks of the unqualified, useless teachers, would benefit from the help of an expert.

 

Mind you, many years ago, in an alternative existence, (which involved having short hair and wearing green clothes on a daily basis), I remember hearing "expert" defined as: "ex is a has been, and a spurt is what happens when you put a drip under pressure!"

Edited November 6, 2018 by JAG
Quite possibly enough gentle piss taking...

[chama]

Kind of reflective of the decline of influence from English speaking countries.  

[zzaa09]

7 minutes ago, chama said:

Kind of reflective of the decline of influence from English speaking countries.  

.....and the expected angst and whinging from the dwindling empire apologists/defenders. 

 

The deluded superiority is diminishing. 

[JAG]

7 minutes ago, chama said:

Kind of reflective of the decline of influence from English speaking countries.  

Also possibly an indicator of the increasing number of non native speakers climbing onto the English teaching bandwagon. I saw a list of names of so-called "native speaking English teachers" the other day in one institution up here in Chiang Rai - it looked like the nominal role for the crew of a Klingon spaceship!

[soleddy]

I read that there are 17,000 out of 40,000 Thai English teachers considered as below elementary and that the BC would draft in 300 NES trainers.

Where are the ads for these jobs?

[zzaa09]

57 minutes ago, JAG said:

Also possibly an indicator of the increasing number of non native speakers climbing onto the English teaching bandwagon. I saw a list of names of so-called "native speaking English teachers" the other day in one institution up here in Chiang Rai - it looked like the nominal role for the crew of a Klingon spaceship!

Unfortunate that the Thai educational establishment still doesn't get it. 

They've resisted, for years, the base ideals of real native speaker placement into the classrooms - as a matter of sensible course. 

It's nominal at best.

 

Seems to be the norm: 

Filipino

German

Swiss

Indian

Norwegian

Dutch

Etc, etc.....

 

[madusa]

6 hours ago, Artisi said:

Of course the system of teaching in Thailand is a massive failure, the secret is in listening and speaking, maybe - just maybe this is why kids 12 + months old can understand and start to speak without the so called "experts" trying to cram grammar rules, writing and reading down their necks.

Further, I wouldn't say that the early introduction of simple reading is a drawn-back as some kids accept it and can handle it, if they can - good , if not, the world won't end. 

"When the pupils are ready the master appears"禅(zen)

Our consumer society screws up just about everything, from foods to education. Macdonald is fully licensed to kill your kids with fake foods. The brain of your children no longer function as it should be. They have departments that constantly think of new ways to stuff those fvvking stuffs down the throat of your kids. They call it Sales, Advertising etc.,

Thai children also eat too much "kow neaw" -sticky rice. And not much vegetable or fibre . Just as bad if not worse.

[Hanuman2547]

On 11/3/2018 at 7:21 PM, thequietman said:

In a way, yes but I have a family to support and do not have the luxury of tenure and a job for life like the Thai members. I am renewed annually and so my voice carries no weight within this system.

It is broken and I can't fix it.

I understand 100%.  It's one of the reasons I don't teach English in Thailand and am very happy that I moved back to my home country so many years ago.  Still love visiting Thailand and plan to spend the month of December there.

[Baerboxer]

On 11/3/2018 at 11:36 AM, darksidedog said:

To be honest, I didn't think it was possible for it to get worse. Of all the places I have been, Thailand is the worst for ability to speak English even remotely well. Many years ago I tried to set up an office here and closed it after a year due to inability to recruit even a single individual who had the proficiency I was after, and I was offering 50K a month basic. Until such time as those doing the teaching can actually speak the language, given that most Thai English teachers simply cannot, it is difficult to see the situation improving either.

 

Totally agree with you. I would also add that IME the quality of a lot of expat English teachers leaves a lot to be desired. Many seem to be here because they'd have trouble holding down a job back home and spend most of their mental efforts chasing women and boozing.

[stanleycoin]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Totally agree with you. I would also add that IME the quality of a lot of expat English teachers leaves a lot to be desired. Many seem to be here because they'd have trouble holding down a job back home and spend most of their mental efforts chasing women and boozing.

Don't C wot's the problemo. jon. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by stanleycoin

[JAG]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Totally agree with you. I would also add that IME the quality of a lot of expat English teachers leaves a lot to be desired. Many seem to be here because they'd have trouble holding down a job back home and spend most of their mental efforts chasing women and boozing.

Mind you, can't afford much booze, or catch too many women on the salaries they are paid.

 

Mind you, I am too old for both now. It takes me a week to recover from a hangover these days, and likely two to recover from the other!

????

[jerojero]

So where is the pontificating PM on this issue? By the way, does he know a single word of English?

[pastprime]

•  
•  
• 

Posted just now

If they see no need to speak English,have no desire to learn English,cannot see any benefits....Can lead a horse to water etc etc etc

 

•  

Edited November 8, 2018 by pastprime
dup

[soleddy]

While I am the first to acknowledge that in 2018 there are many 'types' of English, including Indian English, various African Englishes (etc), I do get hacked off by the NNES on many of the "job" groups who write "I am just as good as NES, and some of us are even better". This is cuckooland. If you are not UK or USA or Oz or NZ, you are not native. I know two guys from Manila who are great with kids but could not write a complex report nor deliver a speech without mistakes.

 

I have seen complaints from Tunisian and Russian people "that they were turned down for an NES-level job". I wonder why.

 

Fifteen years ago I wanted to learn Spanish and I sought out a 100% Spanish woman teacher. It was much better than being taught by a Romanian who knew some Spanish. She was a trained teacher from Madrid, and she made me learn from day one.

 

Of course you might be able to find an NNES who has IELTS 7 to teach basics to your kids, and that's fine by me. But please stop moaning if you are NNES. It means you are not native. Thai schools and Thai parents want to have NES, and in some cases will pay a premium to be sure, by enrolling in an EP.

 

Eddy

[SoilSpoil]

6 hours ago, soleddy said:

While I am the first to acknowledge that in 2018 there are many 'types' of English, including Indian English, various African Englishes (etc), I do get hacked off by the NNES on many of the "job" groups who write "I am just as good as NES, and some of us are even better". This is cuckooland. If you are not UK or USA or Oz or NZ, you are not native. I know two guys from Manila who are great with kids but could not write a complex report nor deliver a speech without mistakes.

 

I have seen complaints from Tunisian and Russian people "that they were turned down for an NES-level job". I wonder why.

 

Fifteen years ago I wanted to learn Spanish and I sought out a 100% Spanish woman teacher. It was much better than being taught by a Romanian who knew some Spanish. She was a trained teacher from Madrid, and she made me learn from day one.

 

Of course you might be able to find an NNES who has IELTS 7 to teach basics to your kids, and that's fine by me. But please stop moaning if you are NNES. It means you are not native. Thai schools and Thai parents want to have NES, and in some cases will pay a premium to be sure, by enrolling in an EP.

 

Eddy

I've seen a lot of terrible NES teachers over the years, who have no feeling with second language learning at all.

[brewsterbudgen]

I've seen a lot of terrible NES teachers over the years, who have no feeling with second language learning at all.

It's unlikely to improve when more importance is placed on a degree (any degree!) than a proper TEFL qualification and experience.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[poohy]

On 11/3/2018 at 3:03 PM, scorecard said:

Agree, I wonder at the accuracy of the initial list.

Yes same here

I worked in Iran on the whole pretty good English certainly better than here 

[Artisi]

4 hours ago, SoilSpoil said:

I've seen a lot of terrible NES teachers over the years, who have no feeling with second language learning at all.

correct, being a native speaker of any language doesn't translate into being able to teach, likewise neither does tertiary qualifications.  

[HalfLight]

32 minutes ago, Artisi said:

correct, being a native speaker of any language doesn't translate into being able to teach, likewise neither does tertiary qualifications.  

Very good comment. Not everyone is the same, but I have a tertiary qualification a high IQ, and I'm a native English speaker, but I make a terrible teacher, absolutely dreadful, even though I never taught English.

 

I've known lots of very good teachers; I'm just not one of them.

Edited November 13, 2018 by HalfLight

[CharlieH]

Flame post removed.

[Walinton]

On 11/3/2018 at 11:48 AM, thequietman said:

Creating English curriculum without asking the NES right there in their schools, is typical of Thai department heads here. The attitude of 'I can't lose face' means that they would rather get it wrong than ask for help from someone that speaks the language. It is purely a box ticking exercise here and everything and I mean everything, is all show and absolutely no substance.

 

In my Uni, there are incorrectly displayed documents and posters in incorrect English all over the place. When you mention it, you are seen as a trouble maker! Wow!

 

When they ask me is everything OK, I just tell them 'Yes.' That's all they want to hear and to say anything else, is as I said before, creating trouble for yourself.

 

It is all a shambles.

Comment of the year award goes to "THEQUITEMAN"
W're all good at telling them what they want to hear, and not "What they need to hear"

[THE REVERAND]

I read many of these comments and laugh My History I have been to university 1 day to play football. I have worked for 4 Australian, 3 American and 1 German mining company as Head Electrical Engineer getting 3 times the salary of the University taught Engineers.    I wrote the training manuals, the safety manuals and the Operations manuals. How did I do this I worked my ASS OFF From when I was 14 Y.O.  I learned all my knowledge from the Ground UP. I taught Vietnam people  in their 50s At a university in Australia -the university copied MY MANUAL for English. I came to Thailand wanting to teach English but was rebuffed I did not have that piece of paper a University Degree. I was amazed at the low level of English  in Thailand particularly in the outer regions I met many thai teachers who supposedly  taught English. in farang countries they would not get by students of 8 years old. 45 students in each class teaching them for 4 hours per week with their useless vocabulary. I have been invited and went to lunch with 2 prime ministers at separate times .Each one asked me how I obtained my position with no degree. My philosophy was never be frightened to getting your hands dirty, listen to the older experienced men ,they have the experience, never be frightened to try different methods is IF you DO NOT KNOW ASK. That is where Thais have their downfall if they do not KNOW something they REFUSE to ASK.

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, THE REVERAND said:

I read many of these comments and laugh My History I have been to university 1 day to play football. I have worked for 4 Australian, 3 American and 1 German mining company as Head Electrical Engineer getting 3 times the salary of the University taught Engineers.    I wrote the training manuals, the safety manuals and the Operations manuals. How did I do this I worked my ASS OFF From when I was 14 Y.O.  I learned all my knowledge from the Ground UP. I taught Vietnam people  in their 50s At a university in Australia -the university copied MY MANUAL for English. I came to Thailand wanting to teach English but was rebuffed I did not have that piece of paper a University Degree. I was amazed at the low level of English  in Thailand particularly in the outer regions I met many thai teachers who supposedly  taught English. in farang countries they would not get by students of 8 years old. 45 students in each class teaching them for 4 hours per week with their useless vocabulary. I have been invited and went to lunch with 2 prime ministers at separate times .Each one asked me how I obtained my position with no degree. My philosophy was never be frightened to getting your hands dirty, listen to the older experienced men ,they have the experience, never be frightened to try different methods is IF you DO NOT KNOW ASK. That is where Thais have their downfall if they do not KNOW something they REFUSE to ASK.

Have you tried working for NASA or the Chinese space programs?  I'd say offhand you are eliminated from any reasonable discourse because you have stereotyped all Thai people as refusing to ask questions.  My wife is a graduate engineer as are most of her friends and they ask me questions all the time.  I believe it is because they have all gone to good universities and were taught that in college.  Not all Thais of course.  I've a good education and was taught never to stereotype in my basic logic courses. 

[watcharacters]

On 11/3/2018 at 11:48 AM, thequietman said:

Creating English curriculum without asking the NES right there in their schools, is typical of Thai department heads here. The attitude of 'I can't lose face' means that they would rather get it wrong than ask for help from someone that speaks the language. It is purely a box ticking exercise here and everything and I mean everything, is all show and absolutely no substance.

 

In my Uni, there are incorrectly displayed documents and posters in incorrect English all over the place. When you mention it, you are seen as a trouble maker! Wow!

 

When they ask me is everything OK, I just tell them 'Yes.' That's all they want to hear and to say anything else, is as I said before, creating trouble for yourself.

 

It is all a shambles.

 

Is everyone aware where your Uni is located?    Thailand or ?

 

[HalfLight]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Have you tried working for NASA or the Chinese space programs?  I'd say offhand you are eliminated from any reasonable discourse because you have stereotyped all Thai people as refusing to ask questions.  My wife is a graduate engineer as are most of her friends and they ask me questions all the time.  I believe it is because they have all gone to good universities and were taught that in college.  Not all Thais of course.  I've a good education and was taught never to stereotype in my basic logic courses. 

"That is where Thais have their downfall if they do not KNOW something they REFUSE to ASK. :

 

He is right, you are wrong. In my experience, by far the majority of Thais assume they know everything, and asking a question about something means a loss of face. He did not say all Thais in the context you flame him for. Among the several problems I have with his post (none of which are worth mentioning really), denigrating ALL Thais as you suggect is nowhere to be found, at least, I can't find it. Perhaps your wife is atypical and as mush as you might like to extend her talents as being typical of all Thais, you are not only wrong, but it means you aren't even paying attention.

 

In my opinion.

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

Is everyone aware where your Uni is located?    Thailand or ?

 

Thailand

[watcharacters]

3 minutes ago, thequietman said:

Thailand

Genius  that  you post and  reply NOW!    

 

Why not post that initially  if it has any relevancy?

 

 

 

[thequietman]

2 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

Genius  that  you post and  reply NOW!    

 

Why not post that initially  if it has any relevancy?

 

 

 

The people who are on Thai visa forum, would rightly assume that I was teaching in a Thai university, on account of this being Thai visa forum.

For the special needs members and window-lickers like yourself, it obviously needs to be pointed out to you, that this is indeed a forum discussing things in Thailand and if it is not Thailand related, then the moderators of Thai visa forum will remove it.

 

So ............... just to clear it up, I work in a Thai university.

 

Have a nice day looking at the pretty pictures with all the special colours. You are not different, just really, really special. ????

[watcharacters]

1 minute ago, thequietman said:

The people who are on Thai visa forum, would rightly assume that I was teaching in a Thai university, on account of this being Thai visa forum.

For the special needs members and window-lickers like yourself, it obviously needs to be pointed out to you, that this is indeed a forum discussing things in Thailand and if it is not Thailand related, then the moderators of Thai visa forum will remove it.

 

So ............... just to clear it up, I work in a Thai university.

 

Have a nice day looking at the pretty pictures with all the special colours. You are not different, just really, really special. ????

 

Silly you friend.   Nice if you post clearly.

[NoMeAmes]

The problem is the methods. Too theoretical, too grammar-focused, zero understanding of children's development, zero effort on trying to understand linguistic aspects of language learning, and lack of effort on finding quality teachers as well as lack of appreciation for teachers in general and too much emphasis on the teachers' skin color and country of origin and not enough emphasis on the teachers' history and actual teaching skills.