Why are expats so bad in Thai?

[mserror]

I am learning a little spoken Thai. However, where I live the people know zero English, the only communication is my learned phrases in shops. So I only learn Thai from my wife or resources.

 

I would help a Thai with English, in exchange for help with Thai, but have not found anyone here interested.

 

People say I should learn to read Thai, but this really does seem like a waste of time to me. Apart from occasional street signs and some product labels, there is nothing I want to read in Thai. And my Thai inlaws do not read or write.

Edited November 6, 2018 by mserror

[poanoi]

14 minutes ago, mserror said:

I am learning a little spoken Thai. However, where I live the people know zero English, the only communication is my learned phrases in shops. So I only learn Thai from my wife or resources.

 

I would help a Thai with English, in exchange for help with Thai, but have not found anyone here interested.

 

People say I should learn to read Thai, but this really does seem like a waste of time to me. Apart from occasional street signs and some product labels, there is nothing I want to read in Thai. And my Thai inlaws do not read or write.

there is another obstacle with thai letters,

see, they have 3 major different fonts, and when you after much struggle think you have it, the teacher throws at you the other two fonts that you have absolutely no clue what that new shit is

 

like for example in english i i i

those three i look the same in english,

we can safely assume its the same letter, just a different font, but in thai, a new font= an entirely new alphabet you have to learn

Edited November 6, 2018 by poanoi

[melvinmelvin]

12 minutes ago, mserror said:

I am learning a little spoken Thai. However, where I live the people know zero English, the only communication is my learned phrases in shops. So I only learn Thai from my wife or resources.

 

I would help a Thai with English, in exchange for help with Thai, but have not found anyone here interested.

 

People say I should learn to read Thai, but this really does seem like a waste of time to me. Apart from occasional street signs and some product labels, there is nothing I want to read in Thai. And my Thai inlaws do not read or write.

if I have understood correctly, the ability to read Thai automatically gives you the correct pronunciation

as  an added +

 

[andre47]

10 minutes ago, mserror said:

People say I should learn to read Thai, but this really does seem like a waste of time to me. Apart from occasional street signs and some product labels, there is nothing I want to read in Thai. And my Thai inlaws do not read or write.

If you learn to read Thai it would help you a lot in learning Thai in general because you can exactly recognize the pronunciation. All these transliterations for Thai are faulty. Only if you can read the Thai script you can see exactly how to pronounce it. Learning how to read is not difficult.

[owl sees all]

48 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Nah she is not worried about and old farang chasing other women. She just wants you to stay totally reliant on her for even the smallest translation. Why don't you man up and take a course if you feel strongly about it.
To many farang are controlled by these little 5 foot nothing pip squeaks!

I hear you loud and clear blackhorse. You have hit the nail on the head; I think!

 

I was a member of a Nong Khai farang support group. Sort of like alcoholics annonamous I reckon. We really did some heart to heart talking and I will say I was beginning to understand things. Then someone said that a couple of Lao girls had come into the bar downstairs and the group dissipated. We never got together again after that.

 

The TVForum topic 'poison brother in law' last year helped me so much.

[Rimmer]

A flame has been removed

[Mac98]

When I was young I took four years of Latin. Learned almost nothing, retained less. I'm good at some things, languages are not among them. The script is daunting. The tones must be in same range as a dog whistle. Can't hear them.

[seancbk]

19 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

I also experience that sometimes, if you don't hit tones and/or short/long right - you have lost

they (some) couldn't care less trying to make an effort to understand

just not interested or too lazy

 

have had some VERY frustrating experiences in that regard

 

 

Tones change the word and people who understand tonal languages have their brains wired differently.   As an example if in English you randomly changed the words in a sentence to something completely different would you expect to be understood?  When you speak a tonal language and get the tones wrong they hear a totally different word (effectively you dropping a random word into the sentence, and most likely more than one).

English speakers often think that tonal speakers can figure out on the fly all the tonal word variations and replace the English person's mistaken word with the right word, but it doesn't work like that.   Thais and Chinese don't have a mental dictionary with all the different words for each tone neatly arranged together, each 'word' is completely distinct to them the same as words in English are to us.

 

[steve73]

One advantage of not understanding much of the language is that it's easy to shut out all the mindless drivel; overheard conversations, gossip, adverts (which seem to be everywhere), etc.  It's all just white noise (much of it squawky, which can be irritating), but it just doesn't sink in.

And similarly, by not reading, you don't get distracted by all the signs, posters, etc, which is important when driving here... It's bad enough being distracted by all the short skirts.. ;-))

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, seancbk said:

 

Tones change the word and people who understand tonal languages have their brains wired differently.   As an example if in English you randomly changed the words in a sentence to something completely different would you expect to be understood?  When you speak a tonal language and get the tones wrong they hear a totally different word (effectively you dropping a random word into the sentence, and most likely more than one).

English speakers often think that tonal speakers can figure out on the fly all the tonal word variations and replace the English person's mistaken word with the right word, but it doesn't work like that.   Thais and Chinese don't have a mental dictionary with all the different words for each tone neatly arranged together, each 'word' is completely distinct to them the same as words in English are to us.

 

 

I understand that, but sometimes I feel they can't be bothered with even the slightest effort.

Did you see my post re purchasing 2nd hand engine parts? (or maybe it was in another tread)

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, steve73 said:

 

 

[HooHaa]

16 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

It is not nonsense. My wife can understand and speak most of the dialects but the rest of her family cannot.

And how old are they and when if at all were they educated? 

[HooHaa]

11 hours ago, waders123 said:

Interesting discussion on Thai Language.

Where? 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, steve73 said:

One advantage of not understanding much of the language is that it's easy to shut out all the mindless drivel; overheard conversations, gossip, adverts (which seem to be everywhere), etc.  It's all just white noise (much of it squawky, which can be irritating), but it just doesn't sink in.

And similarly, by not reading, you don't get distracted by all the signs, posters, etc, which is important when driving here... It's bad enough being distracted by all the short skirts.. ;-))

Road ends 300 meters  written in Thai.  No problem.  The construction guys should write in English (I know).  They wrote it in Thai and Lao. 

[marcusarelus]

4 hours ago, blackhorse said:

From what I read here most farang are renters with a bag packed ready to depart at a moments notice

FAT lot of good the language will do you outside OF LOS!!

That's like saying you don't need a gun because the war is only going to last a couple of years. 

[steve73]

19 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Road ends 300 meters  written in Thai.  No problem.  The construction guys should write in English (I know).  They wrote it in Thai and Lao. 

555...

Drive within the limits of what I can see to be safe, so no problem...

[marcusarelus]

21 minutes ago, steve73 said:

555...

Drive within the limits of what I can see to be safe, so no problem...

73 meters to stop at 60 mph.  If there is a turn in the road at night and the construction is around the corner you are dead.  The reason I bring it up is it happened last week.  Not speaking Thai is like telling people you want to be blind deaf and dumb when you come to Thailand.  It is hard to believe face is so important to you that you can so blatantly defy common sense.

[richard_smith237]

 There is some seriously distorted confirmation bias in this thread....

 

... those using anecdotal examples of how their lack of Thai was and advantage or improvement are shooting from heavily unbalanced footing.

 

Knowing the local language will always be an advantage. 

 

Those who don’t are either lazy or lack the intelligence - or like myself a little bit of both.

 

I can get by with my (est) 50% understanding / 25% speaking but wish I knew more. I’m too lazy to go and take classes. 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by richard_smith237

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I can't speak for the others melvinmelvin but I think it's twofold with Mrs Owl. One is that i would be able to more easily see through the lies and family scams. Secondly, she is a jealous (insecure maybe) person and would think my improved Thai could be used to speak to other women. I'm not allowed to converse with, or even look at, any other women. Only last month she threw a cat at me.

I would be showing her the door. That's controlling, and cruelty to animals is anathema to me. My Thai GF had a pretty stern lecture from me when I found her beating up our dog, Dorhu ( otherwise known as Boofhead ) because she tripped over him. She got my message loud and clear.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Knowing the local language will always be an advantage. 

Where I live the local language is Lanna (Lao variant).

Knowing central Thai won't get you much advantage, as none of your neighbours will be speaking it.

Edited November 6, 2018 by BritManToo

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Where I live the local language is Lanna (Lao variant).

Knowing central Thai won't get you much advantage, as none of your neighbours will be speaking it.

No one knows only Lanna in Thailand. 

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

No one knows only Lanna in Thailand. 

But the whole point of learning the LOCAL language is being able to chat with a bunch of locals.

They are all blathering away in Lanna, and you're on the sidelines not understanding anything.

 

I'm sorry many of you seem to be too daft to understand I want to participate in the general chit-chat and goings on with my neighbours at social gatherings, not just issue commands to my gardener and maid.

Edited November 6, 2018 by BritManToo

[Lacessit]

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But the whole point of learning the LOCAL language is being able to chat with a bunch of locals.

They are all blathering away in Lanna, and you're on the sidelines not understanding anything.

 

I'm sorry many of you seem to be too daft to understand I want to participate in the general chit-chat and goings on with my neighbours at social gatherings, not just issue commands to my gardener and maid.

Each to his own. I put in about twenty minutes at a party for the sake of politeness, then retreat. Most of the discussions are about food and who has bought a new motorbike. i speak enough Lanna Thai to get about 50% of the conversation.

I can't drink the Lao Khao that's present, it would dissolve my throat and stomach lining. The food is so heavily spiced I think I could use it instead of paint stripper.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I can't drink the Lao Khao that's present, it would dissolve my throat and stomach lining. The food is so heavily spiced I think I could use it instead of paint stripper.

 

My neighbours are all middle class, beer, black label and barbeque. 

I don't socialise with the village people.

[Lacessit]

Just now, BritManToo said:

My neighbours are all middle class, beer, black label and barbeque. 

I don't socialise with the village people.

It's good to see the class system of the UK translates so well to Thailand. Sorry, when you lead with your chin like that, I can't resist temptation.

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's good to see the class system of the UK translates so well to Thailand. Sorry, when you lead with your chin like that, I can't resist temptation.

Back in the UK I was a teacher and lived next door to English doctors, lawyers, social workers, nurses, retired professionals.

In Thailand, I'm retired and live next to Thai lawyers, factory managers, teachers.

 

You'll have to explain to me how the class systems don't relate?

Edited November 6, 2018 by BritManToo

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

But the whole point of learning the LOCAL language is being able to chat with a bunch of locals.

They are all blathering away in Lanna, and you're on the sidelines not understanding anything.

 

I'm sorry many of you seem to be too daft to understand I want to participate in the general chit-chat and goings on with my neighbours at social gatherings, not just issue commands to my gardener and maid.

There are many reasons to learn how to speak Thai you'd have to be daft to think local chit chat with farmers was one of them. 

[richard_smith237]

I just reduced a ticket speaking Thai...  I got caught out and was unable to safely exit the central lanes (no motorcycles) to the frontage lanes.

 

The Jolly's stopped me...  I explained that I knew I shouldn't be there, but when I saw the sign it was unsafe for me to slow, or change lanes due to fast traffic... the safer option for me was to continue on and take the next slip road to out of the central lanes (Vibhavadi Rangsit Road).

 

The fine was B1000 for being in the middle lanes - I talked them in to taking B200... I'm not sure I could have done that in English and may well have found myself giving up my license, having to return the next day and paying the B1000 fine and getting my license back. 

 

Of course, someone will come along and say they never make road mistakes, never break a traffic regulation, or would never request an 'on the spot fine' instead license confiscation...  It would not be worth arguing people who think like this. 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

My neighbours are all middle class, beer, black label and barbeque. 

I don't socialise with the village people.

My neighbors on the left are teachers across the soi airline execs and on the right government security specialists.  They all speak both Thai and English.  That's middle class to me.  Sure they all speak Lao and one or two local dialects but out of respect for me change to Thai or English when we chat. 

[roo860]

My neighbours are all middle class, beer, black label and barbeque. 
I don't socialise with the village people.

Don't blame you mate, I wouldn't want to socialise with The Village People, especially the one with the dodgy moustache and leather studded cap.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

My neighbors on the left are teachers

One of my neighbours is a Thai (English) teacher, he's 60 and just retired.

We go out cycling together in the mornings, he can say 'go straight', and 'go home'.

That's all the English he has, which surprises me as he's taught the subject for 35 years.

Oh well, we're happy enough just cycling together, he's never tried to speak to me in any Thai language.

Give me another 10 years and I'll have him shouting 'turn left' and 'turn right' doubling his English vocabulary.

Edited November 6, 2018 by BritManToo