Ireland says UK cannot unilaterally scrap border backstop

[webfact]

Ireland says UK cannot unilaterally scrap border backstop

By Padraic Halpin

 

FILE PHOTO: Ireland's Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Simon Coveney, speaks at a 'Getting Ireland Brexit Ready' workshop at the Convention Centre in Dublin, Ireland October 25, 2018. REUTERS/Clodagh Kilcoyne/File Photo

 

DUBLIN (Reuters) - Ireland is willing to examine ways in which a "backstop" to keep the Irish border open after Brexit could be reviewed so long as it does not permit Britain to unilaterally walk away from it, Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said on Monday.

 

The sides in the negotiations on the terms of Britain's exit from the European Union have signalled progress on agreeing customs arrangements for an emergency Irish border fix but differences persist on the lifespan of the so-called "backstop".

 

British Prime Minister Theresa May raised the possibility of a review mechanism for the backstop in a phone call on Monday with Varadkar that she had sought to update him on the current state of the talks, the Irish government said in a statement.

 

"The Taoiseach (Prime Minister) indicated an openness to consider proposals for a review, provided that it was clear that the outcome of any such review could not involve a unilateral decision to end the backstop," the statement said.

 

"He recalled the prior commitments made that the backstop must apply 'unless and until' alternative arrangements are agreed."

 

May told Varadkar that there would need to be a mechanism through which the backstop could be brought to an end, a spokesman from her office said in a statement.

 

The phone call followed a report by Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper that May's Brexit Minister Dominic Raab had privately demanded the right to pull Britain out of the backstop after three months.

 

Varadkar separately told reporters that an expiry date of that nature would not be worth the paper it is written on.

 

With just five months until Britain is due to leave the EU, May has yet to nail down a divorce deal, with the insurance arrangement to keep open the border between British-ruled Northern Ireland and EU member state Ireland still the outstanding issue.

 

An open frontier is seen as crucial to preserving the 1998 Good Friday peace accord that ended decades of Irish sectarian bloodshed. But that goal has been complicated by May's intention to take Britain out of the EU customs union and single market.

Cautious optimism that a deal may be in the offing has also been dampened by uncertainty over whether it would pass the British parliament, deeply split between eurosceptic and pro-EU lawmakers, even within May's Conservative Party.

May later reiterated to Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz that she believed a withdrawal accord was 95 percent complete, and was "confident" of a deal on the Northern Irish backstop.

But, highlighting the political complexities of Brexit, a large Survation poll for Channel 4 found Britons would vote to stay in the European Union if there were another ballot, backing "Remain" by 54 percent to 46 percent. In the 2016 referendum, Britons voted 52-48 percent in favour of Brexit.

 

"NOT THERE YET"

Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney had earlier said that neither Ireland nor the EU would ever sign up to an agreement that could be ended unilaterally. Coveney was later quoted as saying a "middle-ground position" on the backstop arrangement could be found, but added it must be legally watertight.

 

The latest proposal on the backstop, according to sources in Brussels, would keep all of the United Kingdom in a customs arrangement with the EU, as May has sought. That would include Northern Ireland, as the bloc has insisted.

 

But London and the EU have still not agreed how long such an insurance policy would last. Britain wants to limit it while the EU says any clear cut-off date attached to the backstop would defeat its purpose.

 

A senior EU official told Reuters the bloc's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, has yet to inform the 27 states that "decisive progress" has been made in the talks.

 

Such a recommendation from Barnier is needed for European Council President Donald Tusk to call a special summit of EU leaders to endorse any Brexit deal.

 

After a meeting in Dublin on Friday with Britain's Cabinet Office Minister David Lidington, May's de facto deputy, both Coveney and Lidington said the two sides were "very close" to resolving differences on the border issue.

 

Lidington also said London would stand by the written commitments it had already made on the backstop, which include the agreement that it would apply unless and until a better solution is found.

 

The EU has suggested that the tweaked "two-tier" backstop covering all of the UK could give mainland Britain some scope to set its own trade rules - a central demand of Brexiteers - while keeping Northern Ireland aligned with the EU.

 

(Additional reporting and writing by Gabriela Baczynska in Brussels; Editing by Mark Heinrich)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-11-06

[Tchooptip]

I have a French passport AND a British passport, and I was happy to see that
 Englishmen could buy houses and live easily in Normandy and French people could work in London, I found that a progress in the friendship between peoples, so nothing to do with politics. Now Brexit saddens me, but on a human level. Rightly or wrongly, I do not do politics.

[brewsterbudgen]

Hopefully Brexit will be unilaterally stopped soon, or at the very least, the British people are given a say. 

[Moonlover]

41 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

I have a French passport AND a British passport, and I was happy to see that
 Englishmen could buy houses and live easily in Normandy and French people could work in London, I found that a progress in the friendship between peoples, so nothing to do with politics. Now Brexit saddens me, but on a human level. Rightly or wrongly, I do not do politics.

And speaking as a English man who has had more very enjoyable holidays in France than any other country, I totally agree with you.

 

The EU referendum and its aftermath has been the biggest political blunder my country has made since the 2003 invasion of Iraq. I really do hope that May and her government come to their senses in time and call a halt to this craziness.

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

And speaking as a English man who has had more very enjoyable holidays in France than any other country, I totally agree with you.

 

The EU referendum and its aftermath has been the biggest political blunder my country has made since the 2003 invasion of Iraq. I really do hope that May and her government come to their senses in time and call a halt to this craziness.

 

 

17 million people disagree with you....... so that's it basically.

[vogie]

29 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Hopefully Brexit will be unilaterally stopped soon, or at the very least, the British people are given a say. 

The British people have had their say, two years ago, it is only the remainers that want a Losers Vote now.

[Jimbo1964]

22 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Hopefully Brexit will be unilaterally stopped soon, or at the very least, the British people are given a say. 

The British people had a say and the majority voted BreXit. Albeit it a slim win, it was a win and a democratic vote.

The vote was nothing to do with trade, borders and alike. It was to get sovereignty back from the EU, for the UK to allow their lawfully elected government, the power, once again to create and govern and stop the Brussels unelected dictators from their bullying tactics. E.g. UK, Poland, Hungary, Italy, Greece etc

 

Interestingly though since you mention about giving British people a say, no one in the UK voted to hand over sovereign power to Brussels. It wasn't even disclosed, it was hidden from the people, what joining the EEU aka EU really entailed. 

[brewsterbudgen]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

The British people have had their say, two years ago, it is only the remainers that want a Losers Vote now.

Call it what you like.  Decisions are not fixed in democracies; if a clear majority of people now desire a different outcome it should be respected.  Leavers are obviously running scared!

[sawadee1947]

Yes, it's time to show this arrogant Lady in Britain that without any agreement of my Irish fellows there will be no deal at all. 

[sungod]

8 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Yes, it's time to show this arrogant Lady in Britain that without any agreement of my Irish fellows there will be no deal at all. 

And he will get the hard border that he does not want....duh.....

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Call it what you like.  Decisions are not fixed in democracies; if a clear majority of people now desire a different outcome it should be respected.  Leavers are obviously running scared!

Interesting programme on Channel Four last night presented by the C4 news team.  Various politicians in the studio along with Nigel Farage.  At the end of the programme Farage's face was a picture ????

 

The leavers will poo poo it but as we know they are in denial at the moment. 

 

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Interesting programme on Channel Four last night presented by the C4 news team.  Various politicians in the studio along with Nigel Farage.  At the end of the programme Farage's face was a picture ????

 

The leavers will poo poo it but as we know they are in denial at the moment. 

 

Yes I've just been watching it, but have had to turn it off, there was only Nigel Farage making any sense. Arrogant Barry Gardiner and Caroline Lucas are a disgrace. 

"The leavers are in denial" it is the remainers that are trying to deny democracy. ????????

[dunroaming]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes I've just been watching it, but have had to turn it off, there was only Nigel Farage making any sense. Arrogant Barry Gardiner and Caroline Lucas are a disgrace. 

"The leavers are in denial" it is the remainers that are trying to deny democracy. ????????

Yes as I was saying ????.   Just the response I would expect.  Have a good day Vogie

[puipuitom]

In the Netherlands we have a word for such an impossibility: searching for the square hole drill

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, Jimbo1964 said:

It was to get sovereignty back from the EU, for the UK to allow their lawfully elected government, the power, once again to create and govern and stop the Brussels unelected dictators from their bullying tactics. E.g. UK, Poland, Hungary, Italy, Greece etc

 

Interestingly though since you mention about giving British people a say, no one in the UK voted to hand over sovereign power to Brussels. It wasn't even disclosed, it was hidden from the people, what joining the EEU aka EU really entailed. 

All sovereignty back to Esses, Sussex, Wessex, Mercia, Cornwalis, Kent,  East Anglia, etc... Can you imagine this nonsense ?

Second: the EU is governed by the Council of Government leaders of the EU member states, so… Merkel, Macron, May etc.. THEY and THEY only make decissions. The rest.. is just as all government officials in any country... only and only done in accordance with directives from the top. The Directorates have NOTHING to say at all. Even the EU parliament… might come with suggestions, but at the end... it is the council of government leaders to decide.

 

Learn the EU government rules first before you write nonsense.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

8 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Hopefully Brexit will be unilaterally stopped soon, or at the very least, the British people are given a say. 

The first part of your sentence is just a remainer's dream and it is parliament who will have a say in either accepting or rejecting any proposed deal.  However, rejecting any proposed deal will, as further negotiations will not subsequently be possible, automatically result in a "no deal" situation,, which will not be of benefit to anyone, either in the UK or in the EU.

 

Perhaps the remainers and members of the Labour party will at least feel some satisfaction at the chaos that their infighting in parliament will have caused, rather than accepting the result of the referendum and working to ensure the best possible result for the country in what they consider to be adverse circumstances.

 

Constant attempts to reverse the decision to leave the EU have been detrimental to achieving a good negotiated agreement by giving false hope to the EU of keeping the UK within its stranglehold and thereby, in its eyes, strengthening the EU's negotiating position.  Anyone, who even at this stage, thinks that the EU is glad that the UK is leaving its club are mistaken, as clearly evidenced by their reaction when the result of the UK referendum was first known.  

 

A deal will be agreed at the eleventh hour as usual but of course, as almost half of the voters wanted to remain in the EU, it is only to be expected that they will not welcome any agreement with open arms.  However, whether they like it or not, we are leaving, whatever the final outcome of the negotiations turns out to be. 

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

The first part of your sentence is just a remainer's dream and it is parliament who will have a say in either accepting or rejecting any proposed deal.  However, rejecting any proposed deal will, as further negotiations will not subsequently be possible, automatically result in a "no deal" situation,, which will not be of benefit to anyone, either in the UK or in the EU.

 

Perhaps the remainers and members of the Labour party will at least feel some satisfaction at the chaos that their infighting in parliament will have caused, rather than accepting the result of the referendum and working to ensure the best possible result for the country in what they consider to be adverse circumstances.

 

Constant attempts to reverse the decision to leave the EU have been detrimental to achieving a good negotiated agreement by giving false hope to the EU of keeping the UK within its stranglehold and thereby, in its eyes, strengthening the EU's negotiating position.  Anyone, who even at this stage, thinks that the EU is glad that the UK is leaving its club are mistaken, as clearly evidenced by their reaction when the result of the UK referendum was first known.  

 

A deal will be agreed at the eleventh hour as usual but of course, as almost half of the voters wanted to remain in the EU, it is only to be expected that they will not welcome any agreement with open arms.  However, whether they like it or not, we are leaving, whatever the final outcome of the negotiations turns out to be. 

Here here well put in a sucient post!

[nontabury]

8 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Interesting programme on Channel Four last night presented by the C4 news team.  Various politicians in the studio along with Nigel Farage.  At the end of the programme Farage's face was a picture ????

 

The leavers will poo poo it but as we know they are in denial at the moment. 

 

Perhaps something to do with,where does c4 receive some of its financial support from.

[steve187]

16 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Call it what you like.  Decisions are not fixed in democracies; if a clear majority of people now desire a different outcome it should be respected.  Leavers are obviously running scared!

how are you to determine that without undermining the referendum 

[Moonlover]

17 hours ago, Jip99 said:

The EU referendum and its aftermath has been the biggest political blunder my country has made since the 2003 invasion of Iraq. I really do hope that May and her government come to their senses in time and call a halt to this craziness.

 

17 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

17 million people disagree with you....... so that's it basically.

So basically, the country has been thrown into chaos by only 37% of those eligible to vote. (There where, at the time 46.5 million) A demonstration of how BIG a political blunder the referendum was and the veracity of Winston Churchill's famous saying:

 

'The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter'.

 

Yep, that's it basically. Have a good day.

 

ML

 

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

So basically, the country has been thrown into chaos by only 37% of those eligible to vote. (There where, at the time 46.5 million) A demonstration of how BIG a political blunder the referendum was and the veracity of Winston Churchill's famous saying:

 

'The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter'.

 

Yep, that's it basically. Have a good day.

 

ML

 

 

And who has thrown the country into choas, the remainers, if everybody had got behind the democratic decision that the majority of the country voted for there would be very little chaos.

The remainers have spit their dummy out of the cot and the further the mother pushes the pram away from the dummy, the more baby cries.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

 

So basically, the country has been thrown into chaos by only 37% of those eligible to vote. (There where, at the time 46.5 million) A demonstration of how BIG a political blunder the referendum was and the veracity of Winston Churchill's famous saying:

 

'The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter'.

 

 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

And who has thrown the country into choas, the remainers, if everybody had got behind the democratic decision that the majority of the country voted for there would be very little chaos.

The remainers have spit their dummy out of the cot and the further the mother pushes the pram away from the dummy, the more baby cries.

A very graphic demonstration of the wisdom of Winston Churchill's take on democracy.

 

Thank you and good day.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

A very graphic demonstration of the wisdom of Winston Churchill's take on democracy.

 

Thank you and good day.

I am sorry but W Churchill had nothing to do wih the rules of this referendum, Parliament set the rules, the country voted to leave the EU, I know you don't agree with the result, but that is democracy for you. 

[Baerboxer]

22 hours ago, vogie said:

The British people have had their say, two years ago, it is only the remainers that want a Losers Vote now.

 

They also had their say in 1975. And at every general election, local election and EU parliament election. No body said this 'advisory referendum" would be final never to be overturned.

[vogie]

19 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

They also had their say in 1975. And at every general election, local election and EU parliament election. No body said this 'advisory referendum" would be final never to be overturned.

It was not advisory, the government said that they would impliment what ever the British people voted for. But we can all spin it as much as we like, the top and bottom of it is, we voted to leave and after we have left there is no reason why our citizens cannot have another vote should they wish, but I think after this debacle I think the government will think twice about giving another referendum.

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

They also had their say in 1975. And at every general election, local election and EU parliament election. No body said this 'advisory referendum" would be final never to be overturned.

We voted in 1975 to join a trading group called the EEC. But since that time we have been slowly lead into what is now called the E.U.

This without the specific approval of the people. Read up on how John Major, amongst others deceived the electorate. Fortunately it’s not so easy nowadays to con the people, due to the advent on the internet.

[rickudon]

Time is an arrow, things change and you cannot stop that. Brexit is an attempt to invent the time machine ..... most Brexit voters just do not like the change that has happened over the last 40 years. Most change has little to do with the EU, and was inevitable as technology changed. Good luck with turning the clock back 50 years ....

[nontabury]

On 11/6/2018 at 7:13 AM, sawadee1947 said:

Yes, it's time to show this arrogant Lady in Britain that without any agreement of my Irish fellows there will be no deal at all. 

And what does your fellow IRA supporters, think about Brexit?

[My Thai Life]

Given that the border issue has become the key sticking point, I'm surprised there hasn't been more attention given to it. And I don't just mean on this forum.

 

Borders have two sides re customs. In a WTO Brexit the UK is free to recognise Irish/EU standards, therefore the UK side does not need hard inspection points for imports from Ireland.

 

What the Irish/EU do at their side of the border is their business.

 

It shouldn't be forgotten that there already is a border. Many rules are different on either side of that border: currencies, excise duties, VAT, personal taxation, consumer protection... these are already managed by both jurisdictions – but away from the border.

[samran]

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

Given that the border issue has become the key sticking point, I'm surprised there hasn't been more attention given to it. And I don't just mean on this forum.

 

Borders have two sides re customs. In a WTO Brexit the UK is free to recognise Irish/EU standards, therefore the UK side does not need hard inspection points for imports from Ireland.

 

What the Irish/EU do at their side of the border is their business.

 

It shouldn't be forgotten that there already is a border. Many rules are different on either side of that border: currencies, excise duties, VAT, personal taxation, consumer protection... these are already managed by both jurisdictions – but away from the border.

Under WTO rules, what the UK does for products crossing the UK Ireland border it MUST give the same treatment to all other 164 WTO members. There is no discrimination.

 

Similarly, if the EU and Ireland give a certain treatment, then they have to give it to all other WTO members.