Possible mass shooting at bar in Thousand Oaks, California

[spidermike007]

The shooter is supposedly an ex soldier. Just another reason not to get involved in, or start wars for political reasons. Besides the trillions spent, what have we accomplished in Iraq or Afghanistan, which is not 70% controlled by the Taliban. 

 

When a nation declares war, and sends hundreds of thousands of it's young men overseas to fight, and is not prepared to take care of them when they return, what happens? Some of these guys lose it, and when there is no help, incidents like this are bound to happen. The US was woefully unprepared for the veterans returning home, and how they have been treated has been a travesty. It currently takes up to 9 months to see a shrink, through the VA system. If a guy is going insane, what does he do? Who does he see? If his government does not care, who does? 

[Emster23]

I'm American, and do think guns are too easy to get. Some of my students even packed guns (unknown to me)

 The shooter wouldn't have been flagged when he got his gun. Assume Marines are well trained in firearm use, being a vet. Mental Health did check him out recently and decided not severe enough to hospitalize.

The laws would have to be so severe to have brought him in would result in untold number of "false positives" and uproar.

Switzerland citizens are well armed and they don't have mass shootings.

Ok, he was PTSD from seeing action in Americas many military interventions. Fewer wars? That could help. Better care if vets? For sure.

There seems to also be something in American culture that is off, and it doesn't take as much to set someone off. <removed>

[jvs]

25 minutes ago, cleverman said:

307 mass shootings this year in USA. When Ozzies had their last mass shooting, over 30 years ago, our Govt. did not let all Ozzies get guns, no more mass shootings  since then so your argument flys out the window. 

I do not really understand what you are saying.I think the post i commented on was understood different by some people.

I am all for banning guns and i laugh at all the "cold dead hand" people.

[IAMHERE]

16 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yes, but it's a question of numbers.

Take i.e. 60 million lose nuts armed with stones or maybe kitchen knifes.

Or take the same 60 million nuts armed with assault rifles.

Now which group is more dangerous?

I know it must be a real difficult questions because Americans think about that for many years but they were not able to figure it out until now.

I fear UK types in Thailand much more than US types in Thailand. Swiss even more so.

[Stargeezr]

I am just glad that it is November and the year is coming to an end. It has been a busy year again, for these mass killings. RIP to the 12 senseless deaths, too bad the killer did not shoot

himself first. <removed>

[SteveB2]

Guns don't kill people... ????

 

 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The shooter is supposedly an ex soldier. Just another reason not to get involved in, or start wars for political reasons. Besides the trillions spent, what have we accomplished in Iraq or Afghanistan, which is not 70% controlled by the Taliban. 

 

When a nation declares war, and sends hundreds of thousands of it's young men overseas to fight, and is not prepared to take care of them when they return, what happens? Some of these guys lose it, and when there is no help, incidents like this are bound to happen. The US was woefully unprepared for the veterans returning home, and how they have been treated has been a travesty. It currently takes up to 9 months to see a shrink, through the VA system. If a guy is going insane, what does he do? Who does he see? If his government does not care, who does? 

The good thing is that apparently US Marines training has gone down the drain, or he would have killed a lot more.

[Tug]

The lawmakers must find the courage to give the tools nessary to the authorities to be able to take the guns away from the nut cases

[Spidey]

5 hours ago, riclag said:

OK

"Here Are 8 Stubborn Facts on Gun Violence in America"

 

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/here-are-8-stubborn-facts-gun-violence-america

The Heritage Foundation. Slightly to the right of Trump. Note that it says violent crime is down, not gun crime is down.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Spidey

[Spidey]

59 minutes ago, SteveB2 said:

Guns don't kill people... 

Another complete fallacy. Guns certainly do kill people. If this nut job didn't have a gun, a lot fewer, if any, people would have died.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, IAMHERE said:

I fear UK types in Thailand much more than US types in Thailand. Swiss even more so.

I don't fear any farang types in Thailand. They don't have guns.

[mtls2005]

Marine Corps Vet, suffering from PTSD, but maybe with issues prior to his military stint?

 

Using an extended magazine.

 

Deadliest shooting in the last 12 days.

 

Thankfully no school massacres, yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[marko kok prong]

Expect a rush to gunstores in next few days to by even more weapons,most Americans are really nice people,but when it comes to guns they seem to go crazy as a Thai behind the wheel of a car.

  This was a Glock handgun with and extended clip,the guy was an ex marine vet,gun was legally purchased. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, marko kok prong said:

Expect a rush to gunstores in next few days to by even more weapons,most Americans are really nice people,but when it comes to guns they seem to go crazy as a Thai behind the wheel of a car.

  This was a Glock handgun with and extended clip,the guy was an ex marine vet,gun was legally purchased. 

You're right and the reason is the newly democratic party controlled house likely leader is talking about some modest gun control measures. That always stokes sales. But the only possible changes they're talking about with no assurance they would make it past the senate and the angry orange potus is about universal background checks to buy guns. So realistically only people that don't think they can pass such a check should be at all concerned. 

[newatthis]

40 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Marine Corps Vet, suffering from PTSD, but maybe with issues prior to his military stint?

 

Using an extended magazine.

 

Deadliest shooting in the last 12 days.

 

Thankfully no school massacres, yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, a whole 12 days. I wonder if the USA can go a fortnight?

[dpspike]

I disagree that guns are the problem. The US has always had plenty of guns, including automatic weapons. The problem centers in how mentally ill people in the US are presently treated in the courts. Unlike most other developed countries, the US presently doesn't provide mental health care to those who can't afford to pay or those who refuse to accept it despite being mentally ill. About 30 years ago, state funded mental health care was provided to the indigent and those who were deemed by a court to be a danger to themselves or others. So if anyone seemed to pose a threat to the community, the person's family or the police could have the mentally ill person committed to a state hospital by court order. Systems of state mental hospitals existed in all states to care for indigent and court committed patients, and this served to prevent many mentally ill people from spinning out of control. There were, however, problems that developed with these hospitals, as the conditions were sometimes unacceptable. But instead of improving the state-funded mental health systems, nearly all states abandoned their state hospitals. Now only outpatient mental health care is funded by state governments, leaving the mentally ill in the community unsupervised. Most states no longer allow court commitments unless a crime has been committed. Consequently, family members and police cannot force a mentally ill person to enter a mental hospital to protect the community. Even after a mentally ill person commits a crime, courts will only order treatment during their incarceration, so treatment ends when they are released from jail. I believe the net effect of these changes is an increase in violent crimes committed by mentally ill people. I believe that if court commitments and the state hospital systems still existed, mentally ill people would not remain in the community long enough for their condition to deteriorate so much that they start killing people. It is very likely that someone knew this guy (mass shooter in Thousand Oaks) was wacko before he killed these people, but they were powerless to do anything about it because he hadn't yet been arrested for a crime.

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

I am just glad that it is November and the year is coming to an end. It has been a busy year

again, for these mass killings. RIP to the 12 sensless deaths, too bad the killer did not shoot

himself first.  Hey Trump how many more before you do something?

Geezer

What makes you think next year will be any better??? 

.

As yet no one has done anything towards introducing any useful form of gun control. 

[Redline]

19 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

And still the pro-gun candidates for Governor and Senate in Florida got elected. I guess Americans just accept it.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Many Americans don’t accept it, as they don’t Trump.  It’s the Republican Party that gets the cash and promotes military grade and weapons in the public realm.  This a a fact.  

[lannarebirth]

5 hours ago, Emster23 said:

 

There seems to also be something in American culture that is off, and it doesn't take as much to set someone off. Current political climate has to be seen as at least a contributor to all these shootings....

 

I think it's a combination of a few things. Economic mobility in America while not non existent is largely a thing of the past. Social legislation is about 25,000 years ahead of biological evolution and that's creating some problems. Soldiers are fighting and dying in wars for the past 75 years that have nothing to do with "protecting America". Guns that are protected in the Constitution are for defending your country or overthrowing its government, they really shouldn't be protected for other uses except maybe for hunting food.

[Basil B]

25 minutes ago, dpspike said:

I disagree that guns are the problem. The US has always had plenty of guns, including automatic weapons. The problem centers in how mentally ill people in the US are presently treated in the courts. Unlike most other developed countries, the US presently doesn't provide mental health care to those who can't afford to pay or those who refuse to accept it despite being mentally ill. About 30 years ago, state funded mental health care was provided to the indigent and those who were deemed by a court to be a danger to themselves or others. So if anyone seemed to pose a threat to the community, the person's family or the police could have the mentally ill person committed to a state hospital by court order. Systems of state mental hospitals existed in all states to care for indigent and court committed patients, and this served to prevent many mentally ill people from spinning out of control. There were, however, problems that developed with these hospitals, as the conditions were sometimes unacceptable. But instead of improving the state-funded mental health systems, nearly all states abandoned their state hospitals. Now only outpatient mental health care is funded by state governments, leaving the mentally ill in the community unsupervised. Most states no longer allow court commitments unless a crime has been committed. Consequently, family members and police cannot force a mentally ill person to enter a mental hospital to protect the community. Even after a mentally ill person commits a crime, courts will only order treatment during their incarceration, so treatment ends when they are released from jail. I believe the net effect of these changes is an increase in violent crimes committed by mentally ill people. I believe that if court commitments and the state hospital systems still existed, mentally ill people would not remain in the community long enough for their condition to deteriorate so much that they start killing people. It is very likely that someone knew this guy (mass shooter in Thousand Oaks) was wacko before he killed these people, but they were powerless to do anything about it because he hadn't yet been arrested for a crime.

Mental illness is not always obvious, I really wounder how many of those who have been responsible for so many of these mass killings were actually diagnosed as mentally ill prior to the event???

 

I doubt any of them even if diagnosed as mentally ill ever considered as a real risk to society.

 

The real way to reduce mass shootings is "Gun Control".   

[guest879]

17 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

12 dead including a sheriff. At least 12 more injured. When will this madness stop? The NRA still refuses to endorse background checks. The NRA is a terrorist organization. Let's be clear about that. They need to be outlawed.  And gun shows must end. Something has to be done. Something drastic. 

background checks are pointless as they don't cover private sales. we have a licensing system in New Zealand. loads of guns and very little gun crime. 

[guest879]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

This time it was a hand gun - but this a gun/rifle which was sold legally.

But the AR-15 seems to be the favorite weapon in most of these shootings. Maybe they can use that for their advertisement.

 

almost all murders in America at done by handguns but people love to vilify the AR rifle. I have no idea why.

[dunroaming]

18 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

12 dead including a sheriff. At least 12 more injured. When will this madness stop? The NRA still refuses to endorse background checks. The NRA is a terrorist organization. Let's be clear about that. They need to be outlawed.  And gun shows must end. Something has to be done. Something drastic. 

Of course you are correct but nothing will happen.  Too much money involved and while you have the mentality of so many wannabe cowboys who have never grown up, there will be no will to change.

[riclag]

8 hours ago, attrayant said:

307 mass shootings in 312 days.  Almost one mass shooting per day.

 

that source had 34(3 or more) from Jan - present and they don't mention if the guns were obtained illegally!

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

Edited November 9, 2018 by riclag

[Dumbastheycome]

It seems to be a strange situation in the USA if people who are already known to have mental health issues do not have to declare and have weapons removed. It is  one thing to allow general ownership of firearms but surely some system of licencing and purchase permit that  can be revoked if risk is identified should be a minimum. 

A driving license  can be revoked despite the fact rarely is a vehicle used deliberately as a weapon to cause  mass death !

[wabothai]

Gunfights and violence are spoon fed on a daily basis by Hollywood.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, guest879 said:

almost all murders in America at done by handguns but people love to vilify the AR rifle. I have no idea why.

My idea about that AR-15 picture was to show an in the USA deadly weapon. It's not just that specific weapon, there are many weapons. They all have in common that they make it easy to kill people.

So here is another picture. Sorry if it does not include your favorite weapon.

[mtls2005]

2 hours ago, newatthis said:

Wow, a whole 12 days. I wonder if the USA can go a fortnight?

 

We average 90 gun deaths each and every day. Yee-haw.

 

I think there have been 304 mass shootings (FBI term for four or more shot and/or killed in a single event) so far in 2018.

 

We're on day 312. Slackers.

 

I would imagine that gunshot survivors probably have a pre-existing condition? Oh, snap.

 

 

 

 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

9 hours ago, riclag said:

"Here Are 8 Stubborn Facts on Gun Violence in America"

 

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/here-are-8-stubborn-facts-gun-violence-america

 

Unfortunately there is no easy solution to this ! American's have millions of guns and we have laws that protect our rights to have them .So far little is known about this individual , except for the police saying they had dealings with this disturbed individual over the years while finding he didn't meet the guidelines of taking him to be evaluated further!

I feel sure that all the innocent victims and families of these shootings in the USA will take great comfort from the "8 stubborn facts"on gun violence you referred to.   

[Jingthing]

It's hard to imagine what his motivation might have been.

I guess it's clear he was failing in life so the only thing I can think of is some kind of final revenge against partying and promising young people that still had everything to live for.