Thailand Demands Telecom, Satellites Back From Singapore

[sriracha john]

Anyway, Thaks has interesting skeletons in his closet. The stuff that may have the potential to really hit him is the War on Drugs killings - that conjures up images of him fighting extradition cases abroad.

Interesting development in that area this morning on the Thaksin extra-judicial killings thread:

Thaksin Could Face Charges As DSI Links Police To Drug War Killings

Also, thank you for your informative, historical post.

[LivinLOS]

Why not simply upgrade thier encryption standards ??

Surely then all these 'evesdropping' concerns and allegations are then unfounded.. Or is that too logical for a Thai mind ??

No one has said they expect Singapore to turn off sat comms and cripple that only spying on state info.

[ThaiGoon]

Why not simply upgrade thier encryption standards ??

Surely then all these 'evesdropping' concerns and allegations are then unfounded.. Or is that too logical for a Thai mind ??

No one has said they expect Singapore to turn off sat comms and cripple that only spying on state info.

Military communications are always encrypted. However, the fact that Singapore has access to the system, there will always be a serious threat of any encryption that Thai military uses getting cracked. When you encrypt something, it doesn't mean that it will never be cracked espeically by the people who have free access to the entire system.

I hope this is logical enough for a "first world" farang mind like you.

[slimdog]

Why not simply upgrade thier encryption standards ??

Surely then all these 'evesdropping' concerns and allegations are then unfounded.. Or is that too logical for a Thai mind ??

No one has said they expect Singapore to turn off sat comms and cripple that only spying on state info.

Interesting article from the Singapore perspective:

http://app.info.gov.sg/data/art_ThaiTelcoF...ism_270107.html

[ThaiGoon]

Why not simply upgrade thier encryption standards ??

Surely then all these 'evesdropping' concerns and allegations are then unfounded.. Or is that too logical for a Thai mind ??

No one has said they expect Singapore to turn off sat comms and cripple that only spying on state info.

Interesting article from the Singapore perspective:

http://app.info.gov.sg/data/art_ThaiTelcoF...ism_270107.html

From that article, "would have to employ an army of non-existent Thai-speaking Singaporean cryptographers and analysts to decode and make sense of the signals."

Yeah, I'm sure that would be one of the major obstacles in deciphering the Thai military communitions. It must be impossible to find someone who understands Thai to help them out.

[slimdog]

Govt to carry out opinion survey on satellite concession

Information and Communications Technology Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom said Tuesday that the government would carry out an opinion survey to gauge whether the public want the state to retake Shin-Satellite concession.

The survey will be carried out by the National Statistics Bureau and will take about a month to complete, the ICT minister said before attending the weekly Cabinet meeting.

"If just over 50 per cent of respondents want us to take back the concession, we will not take any action yet. We'll take action only if more than 75 per cent of respondents want us to do so," Sitthichai said.

source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30027346

[lannarebirth]

Govt to carry out opinion survey on satellite concession

Information and Communications Technology Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom said Tuesday that the government would carry out an opinion survey to gauge whether the public want the state to retake Shin-Satellite concession.

The survey will be carried out by the National Statistics Bureau and will take about a month to complete, the ICT minister said before attending the weekly Cabinet meeting.

"If just over 50 per cent of respondents want us to take back the concession, we will not take any action yet. We'll take action only if more than 75 per cent of respondents want us to do so," Sitthichai said.

source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30027346

I'm in the camp that thinks that the Shin Satellite sale was illegal, therefore voidable, legally; but this kind of thing is just embarassing. Where do they find these idiots?

[bkkandrew]

Has anyone really got the heart to say to the Junta that, rather than their being a big plot to spy on them, no-one regionally or further afield has the slightest interest in what the Thai military have to say in any case....

Current Thai reaction does strike me as being rather like Walter Mitty, who, in his own little world, thought that he controlled world events, but the reality was that he was a fantasist loner, who lived out his days in a cul-de-sac backwater.

Edited February 20, 2007 by bkkandrew

[ThaiGoon]

Has anyone really got the heart to say to the Junta that, rather than their being a big plot to spy on them, no-one regionally or further afield has the slightest interest in what the Thai military have to say in any case....

Current Thai reaction does strike me as being rather like Walter Mitty, who, in his own little world thought that he controlled world events, but the reality was that he was a fantasist loner, who lived out his days in a cul-de-sac backwater.

Whether it's a big or a small nation, it doesn't matter. Everyone wants to protect their own national interests. I'm sure even a farang "kee nok" has some private and important matters he wants to protect....let alone a nation.

[solo siam]

Why not just launch a new government owned satellite and move everything over to it or at least threaten to.

[chuchok]

Why not simply upgrade thier encryption standards ??

Surely then all these 'evesdropping' concerns and allegations are then unfounded.. Or is that too logical for a Thai mind ??

No one has said they expect Singapore to turn off sat comms and cripple that only spying on state info.

Interesting article from the Singapore perspective:

http://app.info.gov.sg/data/art_ThaiTelcoF...ism_270107.html

A little bit more from the article..

Every national government, including Thailand's, has the right and the duty to ensure the security of its communication networks. The Australian government did so when SingTel acquired the Australian telco Optus and the United States government did the same when Singapore Technologies Telemedia (ST Telemedia) acquired US cable operator Global Crossing.

Neither government is a slouch when it comes to security. The Australian military uses Optus-operated satellites and Global Crossing's cable network is an obvious US national security asset. Both governments established to their satisfaction that sensitive communications would not be compromised before they approved the respective deals.

SingTel and ST Telemedia are both Temasek-owned companies. If Temasek-owned AIS and Shinsat were to behave inappropriately in Thailand, it would jeopardise the reputations of all Temasek-owned telcos. Temasek-owned companies would not be able to be players in the international telecommunications market anywhere in the world if they did not play by the book everywhere. That is the reality.

The Thai authorities probably know all this. So why this fuss?

It has got little to do with military security and everything to do with political insecurity. The Thai coup of four months ago has not gone as well as the Thai elite had assumed it would initially.

[bkkandrew]

Has anyone really got the heart to say to the Junta that, rather than their being a big plot to spy on them, no-one regionally or further afield has the slightest interest in what the Thai military have to say in any case....

Current Thai reaction does strike me as being rather like Walter Mitty, who, in his own little world thought that he controlled world events, but the reality was that he was a fantasist loner, who lived out his days in a cul-de-sac backwater.

Whether it's a big or a small nation, it doesn't matter. Everyone wants to protect their own national interests. I'm sure even a farang "kee nok" has some private and important matters he wants to protect....let alone a nation.

Your repost helpfully demonstrates my point. Thank you...

[ThaiGoon]

Your repost helpfully demonstrates my point. Thank you...

To be honest, a farang kee nok whose life revolves around bars and working girls in Thailand is probably a lot closer to Walter Mitty than Thais who want to protect their country.

[bkkandrew]

Your repost helpfully demonstrates my point. Thank you...

To be honest, a farang kee nok whose life revolves around bars and working girls in Thailand is probably a lot closer to Walter Mitty than Thais who want to protect their country.

Thats it - come on, work that anger out of your system...

Where's psychiatrist John when you need him?

[Clipped]

Why not simply upgrade thier encryption standards ??

Surely then all these 'evesdropping' concerns and allegations are then unfounded.. Or is that too logical for a Thai mind ??

No one has said they expect Singapore to turn off sat comms and cripple that only spying on state info.

Interesting article from the Singapore perspective:

http://app.info.gov.sg/data/art_ThaiTelcoF...ism_270107.html

A little bit more from the article..

Every national government, including Thailand's, has the right and the duty to ensure the security of its communication networks. The Australian government did so when SingTel acquired the Australian telco Optus and the United States government did the same when Singapore Technologies Telemedia (ST Telemedia) acquired US cable operator Global Crossing.

Neither government is a slouch when it comes to security. The Australian military uses Optus-operated satellites and Global Crossing's cable network is an obvious US national security asset. Both governments established to their satisfaction that sensitive communications would not be compromised before they approved the respective deals.

SingTel and ST Telemedia are both Temasek-owned companies. If Temasek-owned AIS and Shinsat were to behave inappropriately in Thailand, it would jeopardise the reputations of all Temasek-owned telcos. Temasek-owned companies would not be able to be players in the international telecommunications market anywhere in the world if they did not play by the book everywhere. That is the reality.

The Thai authorities probably know all this. So why this fuss?

It has got little to do with military security and everything to do with political insecurity. The Thai coup of four months ago has not gone as well as the Thai elite had assumed it would initially.

that article is flawed from the beginning, it tries to explain how a mobile phone and supposed relay to satellite works....but when someone is under surveillance a channel is dedicated to that specific frequency 'always monitored all the time'....all you have to do is dial in the frequency and dial in a half duplex receiving protocol.

also when australia sold its sats to singapore, they did a MASSIVE upgrade to its fiber optic system, spent billions to insure its integrity....they agreed on the deal because they wanted to stay engaged in economic /commercial dealings with singapore.

for a country with enough cash as singapore, it seems odd that they seem to have a trend of buying up networks , surely a country with stature such as singapore, could send up its own satellites.

the FBI ,CIA KGB , MI6 are known to spy but they dont admit to it....

[Sing_Sling]

I give up - and admit to the fact that Singapore is about to take over Thailand militarily, technologically and economically and buying the ShinCorp (privately owned) satellites is one way of these demons of the South China Sea to usurp a legally installed military regime . . . oops!

Singaporeans are quite clearly the bad guys in this story and several posters here are obfuscating the issue as blatantly as the press and government in Thailand by deflecting discussion to an aside topic.

Mushrooms are after all simply fungus and transparency is a Thai trait . . .

Oi Gewalt!

[LivinLOS]

Why not simply upgrade thier encryption standards ??

Surely then all these 'evesdropping' concerns and allegations are then unfounded.. Or is that too logical for a Thai mind ??

No one has said they expect Singapore to turn off sat comms and cripple that only spying on state info.

Military communications are always encrypted. However, the fact that Singapore has access to the system, there will always be a serious threat of any encryption that Thai military uses getting cracked. When you encrypt something, it doesn't mean that it will never be cracked espeically by the people who have free access to the entire system.

I hope this is logical enough for a "first world" farang mind like you.

My farang mind says that cryptography is much stronger than that.. Get good cryptographic mathematicians and create a secure system. Secuurity through obscurity is never a secure model.

[kmart]

Nevermind, we have submarines and an aircraft carrier to defend our proud, mighty Nation!

[Jai Dee]

ICT Ministers remarked govt to hold public hearing on regaining control of satellites from Singapore

Minister of Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Sitthichai Phokai-udom (สิทธิชัย โภไคยอุดม) viewed that the government should hold public hearing before it decides to regain control of satellites from Singapore.

In regard to the progress on the retrieval of satellites, ICT Minister said that Thailand has to consider on regulations and transparency. He said that he has requested National Statistical Office (NSO) to help conduct a survey asking people’s opinions about the subject.

Currently, the survey results that 70 percent of people agree with the government in regaining control of satellites.

In addition, experts will be consulted for the pros and cons.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 20 Febuary 2007

[seagull]

Govt to carry out opinion survey on satellite concession

Information and Communications Technology Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom said Tuesday that the government would carry out an opinion survey to gauge whether the public want the state to retake Shin-Satellite concession.

The survey will be carried out by the National Statistics Bureau and will take about a month to complete, the ICT minister said before attending the weekly Cabinet meeting.

"If just over 50 per cent of respondents want us to take back the concession, we will not take any action yet. We'll take action only if more than 75 per cent of respondents want us to do so," Sitthichai said.

source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30027346

Very typical of thai politicians. Always procrastinating the next step to take. Even seeking out a survey, as if in the end, if thais do not want back the satelite, the government will drop this matter entirely. Thy simply buying more time, as they are out of ideas.

[seagull]

Nevermind, we have submarines and an aircraft carrier to defend our proud, mighty Nation!

Oh now I see. Besides the supposedly theory that singapore is spying on thailand, now singapore is seen to be wanting to invade and take control of thailand?with all the corruptions and poverties? Well i suppose one would have to take it as a package... the goodies and the baddies. But, wait a minute, where are the goodies?

[lukamar]

Maybe, just maybe the Junta wants to be the one eavesdropping. They appear to be insecure enough.

[wintermute]

Maybe, just maybe the Junta wants to be the one eavesdropping. They appear to be insecure enough.

Yeah I wonder about that myself..they seem to be generating an awful lot of paranoid feelings. Maybe they have some very dirty skeletons in the closet that they dont' want revealed.

[LaoPo]

Maybe, just maybe the Junta wants to be the one eavesdropping. They appear to be insecure enough.

Yeah I wonder about that myself..they seem to be generating an awful lot of paranoid feelings. Maybe they have some very dirty skeletons in the closet that they dont' want revealed.

Agree....if you don't want to be in the spotlights, throw something the other direction and the attention of the press will jump at it.

I want to add that it's 'understandable' that " that the government would carry out an opinion survey to gauge whether the public want the state to retake Shin-Satellite concession. "

That's exactly what I mean: throw a stone the other direction.

What on earth would 'the public' know about a satellite or the extremely complex situation about the Shin-Satellite consession?

Why on earth would they wish to carry out an 'opinion survey' ?

A lot of people seem to forget that we are talking about 'leaders' who came into power by means of a Coupe d'Etat.

LaoPo

Edited February 21, 2007 by LaoPo

[slimdog]

Samart considers ShinSat share buy

Expertise in related fields a factor

Samart has expressed interest in buying shares of Shin Satellite (ShinSat) if the move can enhance the group's businesses.

CEO Charoenrath Vilailuck yesterday said he believed all telecom firms would consider the same possibility if a chance were available and the move added value to their businesses.

"But we have yet to think about it seriously in terms of the financial aspect or if buying shares will benefit our existing businesses," he added.

Charoenrath is confident the long-standing telecom firm Samart could operate the satellite business, given its long-time experience in satellite communications-related fields.

The Samart Group has cash flow of Bt3 billion. ShinSat's market capitalisation is Bt7.746 billion.

"If we really decide to take a share, we will also see if we can develop a strong marketing and customer-service team to support the satellite service in both local and foreign markets," he said.

Samart's businesses range from satellite-dish distribution and its bid for state telecom projects to regional handset sales and air-traffic control and energy projects in Cambodia.

It has also provided the iPSTAR broadband satellite service of ShinSat on a retail basis for TOT, the wholesale marketer of the service. Earlier Samart had provided a data communications service via the small satellite system better known as V-Sat.

The situation of ShinSat is uncertain. Last Friday, Council for National Security leader General Sonthi Boonya-ratglin declared that Thailand wanted its satellites back and defined the ShinSat concession as a "national asset".

Information and Communica-tions Technology Minister Sitthichai Pookai-yaudom picked up the baton and said on Monday that one option to reclaim the satellites from "foreign ownership" was to buy all ShinSat shares.

He added that the ministry might have TOT and CAT Telecom or any interested private firms buy ShinSat shares.

An industry source said that after the remark of the ICT minister on the possible share purchase, Temasek began to mull offloading its shares in ShinSat to make money and to ease the public pressure that it controls a Thai national asset.

Shin Corp owns 41.3 per cent of ShinSat, which operates Thaicom 1, 2, 5 broadcasting satellites and iPSTAR broadband satellite.

Based on the US$214-million (Bt7.63 billion) market capitalisation of ShinSat, Shin Corp's holding is therefore valued at $88 million.

Shin Corp was founded by the family of ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra, which sold off its controlling stake in Shin to a group led by Singapore's state investment arm Temasek in January 2006.

The move prompted massive protests against the sale of national assets. Thaksin was ousted by a military coup last September 19.

Police are probing whether Kularb Kaew, part of the group in the Temasek deal, was a nominee for Temasek's group to take over Shin. If it were proven a nominee, this would breach Thai foreign-business law.

source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/21...ss_30027397.php

Note:

According to their website at http://www.samartcorp.com/eng/shareholders.php, one of their major shareholders is Telekom Malaysia with nearly 20%

[Gaudente]

Your repost helpfully demonstrates my point. Thank you...

To be honest, a farang kee nok whose life revolves around bars and working girls in Thailand is probably a lot closer to Walter Mitty than Thais who want to protect their country.

and to be even further honest, the dumbest farang kee nok in Pattaya is anyway by far smarter of someone capable of thinking and speaking "in spite the fact Singapore has few arable land, they are so rich they bought our satellites"

[Prakanong]

laughing out very loud @ those talking of war

Exactly!!! - its not going to happen

The Thai's are not the Japanese in 42 though - I mean with over 5000 Generals do they actually have any line troops?

Do they have any planes, ships or artliiery capable of takingon Singapore?

Last time they had a battle the Pathet Laos smacked their <deleted> did they not?

[hammered]

laughing out very loud @ those talking of war

Exactly!!! - its not going to happen

The Thai's are not the Japanese in 42 though - I mean with over 5000 Generals do they actually have any line troops?

Do they have any planes, ships or artliiery capable of takingon Singapore?

Last time they had a battle the Pathet Laos smacked their <deleted> did they not?

The Pathet Laos have smacked a few bigger <deleted> too. Lets start with the US.

[Prakanong]

If the government wants to reclaim control of the satellites and other business aspects, why don't they push the original "Kularb Kaew" issue of foreign companies owning a max of 49% / nominee shareholders et al? If Singapore owned less than a controlling share of these assets, wouldn't the problem be solved?

This would fit within the framework of precedented Thai laws, and should not affect investor confidence as drastically as "nationalizing or re-patriating assets".

And half the businessmen with small thai LTD companies would be squealing on here in a second like that its not fair while sticking by the rights of a military dictatorship to take back what is not theirs.

[Jai Dee]

Govt Pension Fund may buy Shin Satellite

Government Pension Fund (GPF) is joining up with a group of investors to buy shares of Shin Satellite Plc from Shin Corp., the fund's Secretary General Visit Tantisunthorn said Wednesday.

GPF policy is to maintain equity stake in any investments at no more than 25 percent and GPF will not take key management roles," Visit said.

Visit did not mentioned which other parties the fund is currently negotiating with.

Source: The Nation - 21 February 2007