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[webfact]

After cabinet backing, May girds for Brexit battle in UK parliament

By William James and Kylie MacLellan

 

Britain's Prime Minister, Theresa May, leaves 10 Downing Street, in London, Britain November 14, 2018. REUTERS/Henry Nicholls

 

LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Theresa May won the backing of her senior ministers for a draft European Union divorce deal on Wednesday, freeing her to tackle the much more perilous struggle of getting parliament to approve the agreement.

 

More than two years after the United Kingdom voted in a referendum to leave the EU, May told reporters outside her Downing Street residence that she had won over her divided cabinet, which includes some senior Brexiteers.

 

"The collective decision of cabinet was that the government should agree the draft withdrawal agreement and the outline political declaration," she said, after a five-hour meeting.

 

Speaking over protesters shouting anti-Brexit slogans from the end of Downing Street, she said the deal, 585 pages long, was the best that could be negotiated.

 

"When you strip away the detail, the choice before us was clear: this deal, which delivers on the vote of the referendum, which brings back control of our money laws and borders, ends free movement, protects jobs security and our Union; or leave with no deal; or no Brexit at all," she said.

 

It was not immediately clear whether any ministers would resign over the deal, which May hopes will satisfy both Brexit voters and EU supporters by ensuring close ties with the bloc after Britain leaves on March 29.

 

But the weakest British leader in a generation now faces the ordeal of trying to push her deal through parliament, where opponents lined up to castigate the agreement, even before reading it.

 

Brexit will pitch the world's fifth largest economy into the unknown. Many fear it will divide the West as it grapples with both the unconventional U.S. presidency of Donald Trump and growing assertiveness from Russia and China.

 

Supporters of Brexit admit there may be some short-term pain for Britain's $2.9 trillion economy, but say that, in the long term, it will prosper when cut free from the EU - which they cast as a failing German-dominated experiment in European integration.

 

PARLIAMENT VOTE

May gave no date for a vote in parliament but she will need the votes of about 320 of the 650 lawmakers. It is unclear whether she has the numbers.

 

"I know there will be difficult days ahead and this is a decision that will come under intense scrutiny, and that is entirely as it should be," May said.

 

During the cabinet meeting, British journalists said anger among Brexit-supporting Conservative lawmakers was so high that they might call for a vote of no confidence in her leadership. There was no confirmation.

 

The ultimate outcome for the United Kingdom remains uncertain: scenarios range from a calm divorce to rejection of May's deal, potentially sinking her premiership and leaving the bloc with no agreement, or another referendum.

 

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker recommended that EU leaders should now go ahead with a delayed summit to rubber-stamp the agreement.

 

But EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier cautioned that the road to ensure a smooth UK exit was still long and potentially difficult.

May, an initial opponent of Brexit who won the top job in the turmoil following the referendum, has staked her future on a deal that she hopes will solve the Brexit riddle: leaving the EU while preserving the closest possible ties.

 

But she has satisfied few. Brexit supporters in May's party, which has been riven by a schism over Europe for three decades, said she had surrendered to the EU and that they would vote down the deal.

 

A senior Eurosceptic lawmaker said the cabinet decision was a majority decision, not a unanimous one.

 

Many opponents of Brexit are also upset as they fear Britain will be subject to the EU's rules while getting none of the benefits of membership. Some want another referendum.

 

Opposition Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn called it a "botched deal".

 

The Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) which props up May's government, said it would not back any deal that treated the British province differently from the rest of the United Kingdom.

 

"If she decides to go against all of that, then there will be consequences," DUP leader Arlene Foster said, though she refrained from explicitly opposing the deal. She was due to meet May on Wednesday night.

 

IRELAND

The most difficult issue in the talks was the Northern Irish 'backstop', an insurance policy to avoid a return to border checks between the British province and EU-member Ireland that could threaten a 1998 peace accord, which ended 30 years of violence.

 

The draft deal envisages a July 2020 decision on what would have to be done to safeguard an open Irish border after the post-Brexit transition runs its course if a new trade deal is not in place.

 

Either Britain would have to extend the transition period once beyond December 2020, or go into a customs arrangement that would cover all of the United Kingdom.

 

But under those arrangements, Northern Ireland would be aligned more closely with the EU's customs rules and production standards.

Any changes to or termination of the backstop arrangements, after the end of the transition, would have to be agreed between London and Brussels.

 

Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, whose desire to avoid a hard border was central for Brussels, said the deal satisfied all Dublin's key priorities.

 

But it is unclear if the arrangement will pass muster in parliament as many pro-Brexit lawmakers have demanded Britain must be able to unilaterally withdraw from the backstop to avoid being chained to the EU in perpetuity.

 

"I cannot support the proposed agreement in parliament and would hope that Conservative MPs would do likewise," Jacob Rees-Mogg, leader of an influential group of pro-Brexit Conservative lawmakers, wrote in a letter to his party colleagues.

 

(Additional reporting by Elizabeth Piper, Kate Holton, Andrew MacAskill, David Milliken, Alistair Smout, Elisabeth O'Leary and Stephen Addison; Writing by Guy Faulconbridge and Michael Holden; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-11-15

[Grouse]

Well that's clear then.....

[Basil B]

Labour was finding fault with it this morning even though they had not been able to read 1 of the 585 pages.

 

Calling for a vote of no confidence and general election...

[alanrchase]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

Labour was finding fault with it this morning even though they had not been able to read 1 of the 585 pages.

 

Calling for a vote of no confidence and general election...

Labour have no interest in any benefit for Britain, their only interest is in gaining power. All their efforts are directed at making the situation as bad as possible. If I recall they have stated that they will vote against any Brexit deal May comes up with.

[overherebc]

One comment I did hear was 'end of free movement.'

Not sure what benefits/problems could arise from that.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just in case you missed that:

 

“When you strip away the detail, the choice before us was clear: this deal, which delivers on the vote of the referendum, which brings back control of our money laws and borders, ends free movement, protects jobs security and our Union; or leave with no deal; or no Brexit at all".

 

So it’s not a choice of this deal or leave with no deal.

 

Remain is still on the table.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, alanrchase said:

Labour have no interest in any benefit for Britain, their only interest is in gaining power. All their efforts are directed at making the situation as bad as possible. If I recall they have stated that they will vote against any Brexit deal May comes up with.

 

Of course. They are making a lot of progress in persuading young voters that Labors promises of a land of free for all benefits and socialist paradise is achievable. And all my making those nasty rich types and businesses pay. Young people haven't lived through Labor administrations and don't remember the complete shambles they make of things with their PC mindsets, refusals to admit reality and 70's Unions rule mindsets.

 

Momentum are much worse than the old Militant Tendency. If Corbyn and his cronies get in the UK will be really screwed. He thinks Venezuela is good and refuses to criticize their "socialist" dictator. If Labor get in gawd help the UK.

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Just in case you missed that:

 

“When you strip away the detail, the choice before us was clear: this deal, which delivers on the vote of the referendum, which brings back control of our money laws and borders, ends free movement, protects jobs security and our Union; or leave with no deal; or no Brexit at all".

 

So it’s not a choice of this deal or leave with no deal.

 

Remain is still on the table.

 

Remember the EU referendum was put into law as "advisory". 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Remember the EU referendum was put into law as "advisory". 

Remember too it was ‘the enemies of the people’ who forced the government to place the deal before Parliament (aka the representatives of the people).

 

Without ‘the enemies of the people’ May would be signing this deal on the basis of executive dictate.

 

What comes next is Brexiteers learning about betrayal and the nation learning the truth that any Brexit deal is not going to be good as the deal the UK had.

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Remember too it was ‘the enemies of the people’ who forced the government to place the deal before Parliament (aka the representatives of the people).

 

Without ‘the enemies of the people’ May would be signing this deal on the basis of executive dictate.

 

What comes next is Brexiteers learning about betrayal and the nation learning the truth that any Brexit deal is not going to be good as the deal the UK had.

 

May tried to by-pass parliament and took the case all the way to the supreme court. In a representative democracy it is important that the executive is answerable to those elected representatives and not able to sign things into law to suit themselves. Those procedures are their for good reason, with both Houses.

 

What was and is a betrayal, was Cameron's attempted use of a referendum to silence in-fighting in the Tories and spike the gaining popularity of the UKIP. It all backfired and no Tory leader has had the courage to admit it. The referendum, and advisory one according to how it was voted into law, should have meant a Parliamentary debate and vote on the result should have happened. That's what these politicians in parliament are paid to do. But they are too cowardly and self interested.

 

Good for the Supreme Court Judges in holding up our constitutional democracy and it's enshrined processes. 

 

Of course the truth was always going to be that any deal can never be as good as what we had. Other wise many other EU member states would do the same. But too many poorly informed and uneducated people believe that all the problems will vanish when the UK leaves the EU and kicks out all those Johnny Foreigners. The old political trick of blame something for everything!

[tebee]

The longest suicide note in history 

 

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/draft_withdrawal_agreement_0.pdf

[baboon]

4 hours ago, alanrchase said:

Labour have no interest in any benefit for Britain, their only interest is in gaining power. All their efforts are directed at making the situation as bad as possible. If I recall they have stated that they will vote against any Brexit deal May comes up with.

Normally I am as Labour as you can get. However with the clock inexorably counting down to March the 31st, now is not the time to be fannying around with elections or what have you, unless they want to leave with nothing.

I think they should vote for May's deal and live to fight another day. There is too much at stake for brinkmanship unless they have a clear and workable plan of their own, which they don't.

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Of course. They are making a lot of progress in persuading young voters that Labors promises of a land of free for all benefits and socialist paradise is achievable. And all my making those nasty rich types and businesses pay. Young people haven't lived through Labor administrations and don't remember the complete shambles they make of things with their PC mindsets, refusals to admit reality and 70's Unions rule mindsets.

 

Momentum are much worse than the old Militant Tendency. If Corbyn and his cronies get in the UK will be really screwed. He thinks Venezuela is good and refuses to criticize their "socialist" dictator. If Labor get in gawd help the UK.

Yes, they are aiming for the young voters... older ones are wise to their hype and empty rhetoric.

 

[sawadee1947]

5 hours ago, alanrchase said:

Labour have no interest in any benefit for Britain, their only interest is in gaining power. All their efforts are directed at making the situation as bad as possible. If I recall they have stated that they will vote against any Brexit deal May comes up with.

This clinging to power as seen in British Govt is embarracing. Just about not losing face. Similar to Thailand. 

I hope there are a couple of people in parliament who will end this Farce and will refuse this deal and stop the whole process 

[dunroaming]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

"When you strip away the detail, the choice before us was clear: this deal, which delivers on the vote of the referendum, which brings back control of our money laws and borders, ends free movement, protects jobs security and our Union; or leave with no deal; or no Brexit at all," she said.

And there you have it.  She told her cabinet that if they didn't back her deal then they would be putting their name to no deal or scrapping Brexit.  Of course nobody in the cabinet is going to do that.  The chance of getting the deal through parliament is very slim indeed so what was agreed in number 10 last night doesn't mean that much.  All the talk of resignations were ill founded.  Principles are few and far between when it comes to politicians.

 

In the meantime the deal is being analysed and it seems to be as the leaks indicated.  Transition period can be extended by either side, so in reality is open ended, still in the customs union and still under EU rules and regulations.

 

At least the snivelling toad Raab has had the guts to do the right thing and resign.  As an ardent Brexiteer he had to really. 

[Chomper Higgot]

Brexit in name only.

[dunroaming]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Just in case you missed that:

 

“When you strip away the detail, the choice before us was clear: this deal, which delivers on the vote of the referendum, which brings back control of our money laws and borders, ends free movement, protects jobs security and our Union; or leave with no deal; or no Brexit at all".

 

So it’s not a choice of this deal or leave with no deal.

 

Remain is still on the table.

I think that parliament will not pass May's deal but no way will they allow a no deal scenario either.  There is no likelihood of May being able to reverse the compromises she has made so here we are.... crunch time.

 

Breaking now, Esther McVey is resigning.  I take back my earlier comment about cabinet ministers having no principles.

 

Surely this is building to be the end of May? 

[steve187]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Just in case you missed that:

 

“When you strip away the detail, the choice before us was clear: this deal, which delivers on the vote of the referendum, which brings back control of our money laws and borders, ends free movement, protects jobs security and our Union; or leave with no deal; or no Brexit at all".

 

So it’s not a choice of this deal or leave with no deal.

 

Remain is still on the table.

no its not, that choice ended 2 years ago

Edited November 15, 2018 by steve187

[steve187]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Just in case you missed that:

 

“When you strip away the detail, the choice before us was clear: this deal, which delivers on the vote of the referendum, which brings back control of our money laws and borders, ends free movement, protects jobs security and our Union; or leave with no deal; or no Brexit at all".

 

So it’s not a choice of this deal or leave with no deal.

 

Remain is still on the table.

no its not, then choice ended 2 years ago

[tebee]

51 minutes ago, steve187 said:

no its not, then choice ended 2 years ago

So the choice is only this bad brexit of TM's or and even worse one ?

 

I think remain could be back on the table soon.

 

[RickBradford]

If you'd asked the UK's worst enemy to design the most damaging Brexit deal they possibly could, it couldn't have been much worse than this latest agreement apparently is. 

 

Paying $39 billion for nothing, weakening the UK/Northern Ireland ties, still tied to the European Court of Justice and customs union; suffering the bad bits about leaving the EU without being allowed to tap into the good bits. Commentators are referring to it as BRINO (Brexit in Name Only).

 

Fortunately, it'll never get through parliament, no matter how many arms they twist. They should start doing now what they should have started doing the day after the referendum - planning for a no-deal Brexit.

[dunroaming]

For over two hours May took questions in the house and you heard the arguments from all the various sides.  One thing everyone agreed on was that they would not vote for the PM's proposals.  Her response was consistent with the same old mantra. "Britain is leaving the EU in March 2019".  All very well but it looks more and more likely that with that pig headedness she won't survive this one.

 

This deal will not fly, no deal would be a complete disaster and she refuses to let the people have a say in the result.  She has backed herself into a corner and she is more isolated by the hour.

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

So the choice is only this bad brexit of TM's or and even worse one ?

 

I think remain could be back on the table soon.

 

I think remain will only be on the table if May goes but that is a real possibility.  Mind you if Johnson takes her place we are all screwed!

[dunroaming]

Rees Mogg sends his letter of no confidence and asks May to stand down, so that should be the death nail.

[lamyai3]

No-one can halt our final vault

Into the unknown maw. 

[Kadilo]

Dead woman walking. 

Her days are numbered. 

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Kadilo

[Basil B]

I think May has only one option put it to the people with an Accept it or Reject it referendum.

 

With a vote Remain or Leave if the deal is rejected.

 

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Dead woman walking. 

Her days are numbered.

Dead old Hard Brexiteer expats shuffling.

Their days are numbered.

[alanrchase]

I think remain will only be on the table if May goes but that is a real possibility.  Mind you if Johnson takes her place we are all screwed!

Unfortunately I would rather have Johnson than Corbyn.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, alanrchase said:

Unfortunately I would rather have Johnson than Corbyn.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Both options are unpalatable.

 

Why would the Tories chose Johnson? it is clear that the hardline "Brexiteers" are a minority within in the Tory party that has just screwed the parties chance to govern Britain following the next general election for decades, and just made Corbyn the next PM.