Jomtien Immigration asked me for 10,000 Baht for change from Marriage to Retirement Extension

[Wallander4]

So went to Jomtien Immigration with wife and wanted to change my extension based on marriage to a extension based on Retirement.

 

All papers ready from TM86, TM7, TM6 etc. etc.

 

IO in Room, counter 7, tell us that I have to leave the country and start over with a new Non-o based on retirement or get a touristvisa abroad also and then change to extension based on Retirement. We get quite confused since from what we have been reading nobody is asked to do this.

 

Suddenly IO suggest that she can do it if we are ready to pay "a little" to have it done anyway - she slip us a small note where she has written 10,000 baht. We refuse but the wife make counter offer of 5,000 baht that IO refuse. We say that we will just continue with Marriage extension then and leave the office.

 

When we come home my wife call Immigration and ask what we can do to make this change and get the info that we should go to counter 8 in stead and not show TM86 but only TM7 ...

 

Gonna go again in afternoon - to be continued ….

Edited November 20, 2018 by Wallander4

[lopburi3]

As said there is no TM86 for change from marriage to retirement - you use the same entry non immigrant O visa originally issued by Consulate.  You are not changing visa - only the reason for extension of stay.

 

But did you perhaps start without a non immigrant O visa and get it issued from immigration on basis of marriage?  That is the only way I can imagine there might be a question.

[Wallander4]

Just now, lopburi3 said:

As said there is no TM86 for change from marriage to retirement - you use the same entry non immigrant O visa originally issued by Consulate.  You are not changing visa - only the reason for extension of stay.

 

But did you perhaps start without a non immigrant O visa and get it issued from immigration on basis of marriage?  That is the only way I can imagine there might be a question.

No - started from homecountry with Non-O

[lopburi3]

11 minutes ago, Wallander4 said:

No - started from homecountry with Non-O

OK do not know what you mean by lines but if 7 was change and 8 is normal extension of stay I would indeed do as told and use 8.

[elviajero]

The IO was trying to extort money from you.

 

If you entered the country with a non ‘O’ visa there is no reason why you can’t change the reason for your extension of stay to retirement at the annual renewal. Although, unless you are divorcing, I don’t see why you need/want to change.

 

You certainly don’t need form TM.86, just TM.7.

[JackThompson]

You don't need to do a TM-86 at all, but not surprised that particular staff/office did not tell you that.  The Non-O stamp desk-staff are (colorful adjective), and push very hard to get a large cash-payments in exchange for issuing valid and honest stamps/extensions.  Usually, this is done via an agent, but you are the 3rd report I've read of asking for money-direct.  10K is actually a bargain-price for that office - and probably so low because what she was offering to do was Completely and Utterly Unnecessary.

 

The retirement-desk has a better reputation for being friendly.  Hopefully, they do not have an "arrangement" with the family-desk (almost as bad as Desk 7), to share loot, in such cases.  In theory, they should just accept the application like any other.  The only issue some reported (some offices), is their wife being present and OK-ing the change.

[Wallander4]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

OK do not know what you mean by lines but if 7 was change and 8 is normal extension of stay I would indeed do as told and use 8.

We will do that and if they still want bribes then we just continue with extension based on marriage - we are leaving Thailand next year so this is last extension anyway

[Wallander4]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The IO was trying to extort money from you.

 

If you entered the country with a non ‘O’ visa there is no reason why you can’t change the reason for your extension of stay to retirement at the annual renewal. Although, unless you are divorcing, I don’t see why you need/want to change.

 

You certainly don’t need form TM.86, just TM.7.

I want to change cause it a gigantic hassle to do extension based on marriage at Jomtien Immigration

Edited November 20, 2018 by Wallander4

[KittenKong]

45 minutes ago, Wallander4 said:

Suddenly IO suggest that she can do it if we are ready to pay "a little" to have it done anyway - she slip us a small note where she has written 10,000 baht. We refuse but the wife make counter offer of 5,000 baht that IO refuse.

Report it to "Big Joke". If he really wants to clean up Immigration that will be an excellent place for him to start.

 

These cheap little chisellers really do bring disgrace on the whole country.

[Wallander4]

4 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Report it to "Big Joke". If he really wants to clean up Immigration that will be an excellent place for him to start.

 

These cheap little chisellers really do bring disgrace on the whole country.

Once we are done I intend to do all I can to bring this issue further - got the corrupt officers number so ...

 

You got any idea how to best contact Anti Corruption task force ? 

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Although, unless you are divorcing, I don’t see why you need/want to change.

That is immigration thinking and why wife is often required to sign off.  In our case it was one less trip each year and saved the wife getting car sick from the travel.  For some with working wives it is not easy to get the time off.  Or an aversion to offical contacts.

[watcharacters]

4 minutes ago, Wallander4 said:

Once we are done I intend to do all I can to bring this issue further - got the corrupt officers number so ...

 

You got any idea how to best contact Anti Corruption task force ? 

 

I understand how you feel but a word of caution is in order. 

 

In any Western country I'd suggest you go "full steam ahead" with your complaint.

 

Thailand  isn't a Western country so I think you would be well served to give pause to your intentions.

 

You have little chance to win a battle with immigration or any particular officer in  the immigration office.

 

Better to "turn the other cheek" and walk away while there's  still time.

 

Good luck..

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

I understand how you feel but a word of caution is in order. 

In any Western country I'd suggest you go "full steam ahead" with your complaint.

 

Thailand  isn't a Western country so I think you would be well served to give pause to your intentions.

You have little chance to win a battle with immigration or any particular officer in  the immigration office.

Better to "turn the other cheek" and walk away while there's  still time.

 

Good luck..

It's his last extension before leaving the country.  But, yes - big risk of never getting served in that office again if reporting on that "activity."  Also, best to consult with a lawyer first, to be sure it cannot backfire. 

 

I cannot say I "recommend" reporting it, because it is not my hide on the line - but I would certainly celebrate if that desk is cleaned-up.  It's absolutely sick what is being done - reported many times here regarding the same personnel - and as I experienced, personally.

[orchis]

not surprised. visas issued by agents ('with no money in the bank') are usually processed through jomtien immigration. i have seen 'retirement visas' from people living in chiangmai, bkk and koh tao; all issued by jomtien immigration through an agent. no applying in person needed, all through the mail.

Edited November 20, 2018 by orchis

[OJAS]

26 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

I understand how you feel but a word of caution is in order. 

 

In any Western country I'd suggest you go "full steam ahead" with your complaint.

 

Thailand  isn't a Western country so I think you would be well served to give pause to your intentions.

 

You have little chance to win a battle with immigration or any particular officer in  the immigration office.

 

Better to "turn the other cheek" and walk away while there's  still time.

 

Good luck..

 

 

 

Seeing as he has said that this will be his last extension as he and his wife will be leaving Thailand next year, I personally think that he would have little - if anything - to lose by pursuing a complaint. 

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, orchis said:

not surprised. visas issued by agents ('with no money in the bank') are usually processed through jomtien immigration. i have seen 'retirement visas' from people living in chiangmai, bkk and koh tao; all issued by jomtien immigration through an agent.

The Retirement desk at that location will at least process legit-applications in-person, though.  Non-O stamps from them are nearly impossible.  Marriage-based is possible but difficult, even if a condo-owner, and can be impossible if renting.

 

The use of that office for retirement-extensions of living elsewhere is primarily due to lower-cost agent-offers for retirement - as that desk seems to be prioritizing agent-application volume, over a per-each premium price. 

 

But due to efforts by local offices (CM won't accept TM-28s, to allow 90-day reporting, for example), more applicants are having to pay higher-cost agents submitting to their local area offices, instead.  "Fake Address" 90-day reports (submitted by agents as part of the package) are also being frowned-upon, due to security concerns.  This may result in reduced volume, though the cancellation of embassy-letters will probably offset that - driving many of those former in-person applicants to agents.

[champers]

50 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

You don't need to do a TM-86 at all, but not surprised that particular staff/office did not tell you that.  The Non-O stamp desk-staff are (colorful adjective), and push very hard to get a large cash-payments in exchange for issuing valid and honest stamps/extensions.  Usually, this is done via an agent, but you are the 3rd report I've read of asking for money-direct.  10K is actually a bargain-price for that office - and probably so low because what she was offering to do was Completely and Utterly Unnecessary.

 

The retirement-desk has a better reputation for being friendly.  Hopefully, they do not have an "arrangement" with the family-desk (almost as bad as Desk 7), to share loot, in such cases.  In theory, they should just accept the application like any other.  The only issue some reported (some offices), is their wife being present and OK-ing the change.

Agree 10k is a bargain. My first retirement extension in room 7 was negotiated down from 20 to 16. I believe 16 is par for the course. I would not complain because you just don't know who is in on this "process", whether it is policy or people working to instructions from above.

[Thailand]

At least Chiangmai do it via agents, have not heard of anyone paying direct to officers recently?

 

I have twice been asked for money but some years ago, 6000 for extension of stay (retirement) from Non O 16 years ago! And 500 to 200 to 100 for a "lost" 90 day report letter 6 years ago (I think). First one was paid as did not know any better at the time. Second time ended with a smile on both sides and no money changing hands. ????

[Wallander4]

47 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Seeing as he has said that this will be his last extension as he and his wife will be leaving Thailand next year, I personally think that he would have little - if anything - to lose by pursuing a complaint. 

Complaint will be made when we sit in Europe - safe from the thugs

[dotpoom]

I would have gladly paid it to avoid all the hassle.

[wombat]

a quick 10k and all this confusion you would have avoided.

 

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

I would have gladly paid it to avoid all the hassle.

And made life a total hassle for everyone else.  Wonderful.

[Orton Rd]

8 minutes ago, wombat said:

a quick 10k and all this confusion you would have avoided.

 

It's corruption, not confusion and should not be given into.

[PaulDee]

2 hours ago, Wallander4 said:

Once we are done I intend to do all I can to bring this issue further - got the corrupt officers number so ...

 

You got any idea how to best contact Anti Corruption task force ? 

Anonymously

[jvs]

The last time i was asked for extra money to "fix"' a so called problem i told the io i needed 5 minutes to ask my lawyer about this.Guess what?""No need to pay this time sir""Ëverything done quikly and i even got a (fake)smile.

[johng]

in other news

 

 

[balo]

Well corruption or not , a lot of pensioners with an income of less than 65k rely on it. (via agents).   I would think 10 000 pensioners would have to leave the country if they stop the agents. 

 

 

 

[1337markus]

23 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

It's corruption, not confusion and should not be given into.

Agreed maybe the victim should send the evidence to Big Joke who said this had all stopped. Lasted what 2 weeks?

[JohnnyBD]

Some may call it corruption while I look at it more like paying for a special/expedited service. Please don't start attacking me, ok. I look at it the same as when I buy a business class ticket and you go thru the business class check-in lounge where you're waited on one-on-one at check-in and then provided with an executive lounge pass. It's really up to me whether I want to pay extra for that service or just buy an economy class ticket and run with the herd. For me, it's the same as buying the Thai Elite Privilege Visa and getting those special benefits. When I first came, I was planning to pay an agent to help with my initial 90-day & 1-yr extension because I prefer "easy" and am willing to pay for convenience. But, I was referred to an IO officer by a friend. I met with the IO officer and within 15 minutes I was out of there. She took care of everything for me; my initial 90-day & 1-yr extension both at the same time, good for 15 mths. I just had to come back about 2 wks later when she call to pick up my passport with all the stamps (no waiting in line). I paid a total of 20k (2,000 for 90-day, 1,900 for extension, 3,800 for multiple re-entry permit and 12,300 for the IO special service). I was very happy to be able to get it done that easy. The following year, I checked back with her and she said no need this time, just take my paperwork to the window and they would do it for the normal fees only (1,900 & 3,800). So, you can call it corruption, but I prefer to look at it as a special service rather than paying outside agents who basically do the same and cost more. And, at the time I did think was a special service and I would happily do it again and every year if it makes my life in retirement a little easier.

With kind regards...

Edited November 20, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[Time Traveller]

try a hidden camera. If she insists, show her the video.