Borrow 800'000B for yearly Extension ?

[fanjita]

1 minute ago, Scottjouro said:

Threats to ban people for overstaying in Thailand was speculated and threatened for many years as well...they got there in the end...never say never 

Relax, there'll always be a way in LOS.  Cash is king and please don't forget it.  Too many interested parties.

[bkk6060]

6 minutes ago, Scottjouro said:

Threats to ban people for overstaying in Thailand was speculated and threatened for many years as well...they got there in the end...never say never 

Sure because in that case they were losing money.

We are talking about the lifestyles of many government workers.

Agents and their use will continue.

 

[tideout]

Question: If you have the 24,279+/- (your own money) obviously you can just deposit the money yourself but how long do you have to maintain that amount in the account? What if it goes below that?

[Jingthing]

But convenient and cheap.

But always with some risk.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[fanjita]

2 minutes ago, tideout said:

Question: If you have the 24,279+/- (your own money) obviously you can just deposit the money yourself but how long do you have to maintain that amount in the account? What if it goes below that?

Deported to Indonesia could be a possibility, I suppose.  

[bkk6060]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But always with some risk.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Maybe.

But, can anyone site a case of a Foreigner who used them for a retirement visa, then the agent gets busted?

Edited November 20, 2018 by bkk6060

[Jingthing]

Question: If you have the 24,279+/- (your own money) obviously you can just deposit the money yourself but how long do you have to maintain that amount in the account? What if it goes below that?

Two months before the first extension and three months before subsequent ones.

After the extension is granted you may spend down to nothing if you want.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

Maybe.
But, can anyone site a case of a Foreigner who used them for a retirement visa, then the agent gets busted?

Not sure but there can always be a first time and that's no big joke.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[grego49]

4 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Use visa agent. 25000 baht. Easy peasy. 

Try 13,000 baht done same day

[kannot]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Sure. Who needs a condo for collateral if you're knees aren't broken yet?

There was a  time when buying a condo over 3  million got you a visa from memory???

Or he could sell his  condo and buy one of those "approved" condos in Pattaya which come with a 20 year elite........and an inflated price

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, grego49 said:

Try 13,000 baht done same day

Did you have to go to immigration. Bet its not bkk imm

[fanjita]

I love this ignore function.  Never had so much fun in my life.

[puchooay]

4 hours ago, steve73 said:

With many people needing to bring 800k into T/L, I'd expect there to be plenty of loans available outside of the 3 months required for yourself.

The only problem is ensuring adequate security over the loan..

 

For example, I'd have no problem lending 800k for 3 months at say 1%/mon with a 4MM+ condo as security.. just need to work out the details.  E.g. if the loan is defaulted, then how can the property be formally transferred without showing cash brought into the country.. 

I was once an interpreter in a court case where loan monies were being settled. The judge threw out the case and explained "Money lending is a job. You have not shown me a work permit. Therefore you cannot legally lend money. Case dismissed."

 

[sumrit]

I assume this elderly gentleman has no long term means of acquiring 800k Baht for himself. So he will be in this situation again next year, plus each and every subsequent year. 

 

So he's probably not looking for a 'one off' loan for this year to cover his visa requirements. What he is really looking for is either a permanent 800k Baht loan (with permanent interest repayments) that he can use to show funds for his visa each and every year OR somewhere to obtain a loan of 800k Baht, repayable after three months but available to repeat the arrangement annually.

 

The OP doesn't say when his friend's extension needs renewing but, as he can get an income letter that will cover until next July, I assume it must be after that. I think I'd wait to see what income options might be available in the future, after next July. And, if the worst comes to the worse, consider selling the condo.

[thedemon]

 

Quote

To make it short. Can do, but conditions are :

• 800'000B loan, minimum 6 months
• 5% to get the loan
• 2% interest per month
• + about 4'000B fee to register the loan at the Land Office

 

I'm quite sure that a foreign owned condo cannot be mortgaged as that would breach the condo act.

 

I suspect that the Thai/Chinese lady doesn't know that yet.

 

EDIT: Should add "unless the foreign owner has Permanent Residence"

Edited November 20, 2018 by thedemon

[gk10002000]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, that fee is ridiculous.

Sounds like a business opportunity if people can do that formally for a reasonable fee.

It should be noted it is not illegal to fund these accounts by loans.

There are the seasoning requirements but there is no language saying it can't be loaned money.

Of course then there are the "agents" that have been offering bank based extensions without the applicant having either the money or the seasoning. Without getting into the "legality" of those schemes, there is always the chance of a major crackdown on that practice, if that isn't happening right now already.

There are many ways to fund the account as that is all the Thais look at.  The fact one may be spending oneself into debt, getting negative return on the "investment" is irrelevant.   Not a great financial plan, but that is up to the individual to decide.  Similar things are likely to pop up even for the income method.  People that don't have cash assets to put out 800k baht will likely scramble and find creative ways to show a transfer of 65k a month every month, even though that by itself is no guarantee of any sustainable steady income

[balo]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not sure but there can always be a first time and that's no big joke.

Maybe but the way I see it it is not risky as long as the stamp is genuine and signed by the immigration officer. 

 

If they decide to do something about this it is the agents that will get in trouble first , your passport will be valid until next time.

It's a 100% genuine visa. Approved based on bank documents that shows 800k , and that's all that matters to them. 

 

 

 

 

 

[tideout]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Two months before the first extension and three months before subsequent ones.

After the extension is granted you may spend down to nothing if you want.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Hey Jingthing,

Thanks for the repsonse. Really appreciated!!! 

[bendejo]

Personally, I think the loan/collateral thing is a bad idea.

The Thai person making the loan can call the condo in, get his brethren in high places (bank, sheriff's dept, whatever) to do his bidding, and then it is on you to make the legal case, pay lawyers etc.  And you may win, eventually, though it can take years.  You live out your days dealing with the mess.

 

I don't have a solution for your problem, OP, but at least try something that doesn't involve Thai legalities and trust in those who, at some level, see you as something less than human.

 

 

[zoza]

15 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I think you do not get it.

The agents are and will continue to be used.

In fact TI encourage the use of them.  The paperwork is most always in order and no Falang BS arguing with them.

It is huge money that is distributed amongst many Thai police.

They will not change or modify anything regarding this.

about ten years ago I traveled to Lao with my Thai wife we tried to get a visa at the Thai consul I had all the paperwork that was needed.

I done everything that was required, but as we neared the window to

submit my application the Thai I O shouted no free holidays no free

visa's!!! to be honest I was a bit green at the time and showed her my

wedding ring and paperwork and she laughed and looked like she wanted

to spit on us.....no visa... but all who had applied without using an agent

were turned away...so lesson learned. sometimes here trying to do things

the right way is the wrong way. This was a new boss appointed to stop

any dodgy deals...lol

[Orton Rd]

It used to be the case people could drop off their pp at an agents who would then get them a re entry stamp to save them going on a visa run, used to be the case you could do visa runs back to back if you wanted to bother yourself with actually doing one. At one time Ed visas were easy to get on the pretence of doing a language course (Walen hay days). Things DO change when enough people start to abuse the system.

[JackThompson]

17 hours ago, kannot said:

There was a  time when buying a condo over 3  million got you a visa from memory???

Extension based on investment.  Unfortunately, they raised the min-investment to 10M - and it must be a new condo(s) or other specified types of Thai investment (bank, bonds, etc).

Edited November 21, 2018 by JackThompson

[bbi1]

"Now I you have a better solution (should not be too difficult) please don't hesitate to post it. Thanks."

 

Sell the condo asap at a firesale price since he doesn't have the funds to legally stay in Thailand on a retirement visa or go back home if he can't get the required cash. Was he doing a dodgy before too and didn't have the required 800k savings of his own money to stay here?

Edited November 21, 2018 by bbi1

[bbi1]

22 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Use visa agent. 25000 baht. Easy peasy. 

 

19 hours ago, Huayrat said:

There are agencies out there that will borrow you the 800k and put it in your bank account for a fee of around 20k

 

22 hours ago, poohy said:

Contact is basically a money lender charging ridiculous fees and illegal interest rates!

Surely a better idea is for gentleman to open a new bank account with Atm card

Borrow 800k credit account from a friend gives them atm card in case of emergencies and minimize risk

Pay say 5K per month interest

Then after  the 3 months return/withdraw  money.

 

Almost sounds like it’s been done already eh?

 

Lots of people suggesting illegal stuff here on this thread, which I thought on TV illegal suggestions weren't allowed and those comments would get moderated/deleted. I was always under the impression the only way was to have 800k of your own cash savings in a bank, not for someone to lend you money via an agent for basically a bribe to break the law.

Edited November 21, 2018 by bbi1

[JackThompson]

13 hours ago, balo said:

If they decide to do something about this it is the agents that will get in trouble first , your passport will be valid until next time.

If immigration heads roll over agent payoffs (and there would be a lot - high-ranking needed to waive the money-seasoning), I would bet they try to take down the foreigners with them.  At the least, the visas would be deemed improper, and 20K baht to leave with a ban. 

 

That assumes no criminal charges, which could be levied, given the applicant had the responsibility to know the rules, and it was clear they didn't qualify under those rules. 

 

This is why I suggest anyone using an agent for "convenience" should keep copies of their qualifying documents, so they can prove they weren't one of the "fakers" at some date in the future.

 

The only "safety" in the scheme, is that higher-ranking people are the ones holding the door open, and welcoming these faked-money agent-applications in the first place - sometimes slamming the door in the faces of honest applicants, to force them into the agent's corral.

 

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

At one time Ed visas were easy to get on the pretence of doing a language course (Walen hay days). Things DO change when enough people start to abuse the system.

Nothing has changed for ED Visas, except the payoffs to immigration are more expensive.  They even cut-back on the required class-hours one had to buy, to recover lost volume.  In some areas, even if you attend classes, you had better pay them off, or they will make your life difficult come extension-time.  That was the point of the so-called "crackdown" on ED - increasing revenue (and same with this embassy-letter bull) not because they actually give a bleep if people "really" meet qualifications for their stamps.

 

The reason for doing things according to the law, and keeping all paperwork to prove it, is for "CYA" - because you never know if a new group will muscle-in, and void all the "arrangements" of the old-group on the outs, as a show of power.  That's how things can do down, when "rule of law" does not exist within a system.

[bbi1]

19 hours ago, Scottjouro said:

Although not illegal in terms of law, borrowing money at a fee to fulfill a visa reqirement, is against the intent of the rules put innplace to ensure pensioners have adequate funds to live on while in Thailand,  

 

Exploiting this loop hole this will eventually make immigration modify or change the rules, ie a simple requirement that the 800k funds must come into the country from an outside source via  TT for similiar will put an end to this practice.

 

 

I guess TV now allows posts about illegal  methods to get around the law as lots of these posts aren't getting deleted by the mods. That's great to know that we can now discuss/encourage illegal stuff on TV ????

[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

"Now I you have a better solution (should not be too difficult) please don't hesitate to post it. Thanks."

 

Sell the condo asap at a firesale price since he doesn't have the funds to legally stay in Thailand on a retirement visa or go back home if he can't get the required cash. Was he doing a dodgy before too and didn't have the required 800k savings of his own money to stay here?

Why would he "go home"?  A decent life is probably more expensive there - no?  There are many other much better country-options if Thailand won't accept his income-spending, any more.  Many other countries will welcome him and his income with open-arms - as many who have left can attest (and the many Thais who lost their jobs as a result of those pointless forced-departures can also attest).

[bbi1]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Why would he "go home"?  A decent life is probably more expensive there - no?  There are many other much better country-options if Thailand won't accept his income-spending, any more.  Many other countries will welcome him and his income with open-arms - as many who have left can attest (and the many Thais who lost their jobs as a result of those pointless forced-departures can also attest).

Because he doesn't have the required 800k in savings to stay here on a retirement visa, that's why. Thailand wants people with cash who can afford to live here and follow the rules of the law. Not people who don't have the cash and will break the law to try to stay here like how many people here have suggested.

Edited November 21, 2018 by bbi1

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Because he doesn't have the required 800k in savings to stay here on a retirement visa, that's why. Thailand wants people with cash who can afford to live here and follow the rules of the law. Not people who don't have the cash and will break the law to try to stay here like how many people here have suggested.

Apparently you are not aware there is an option of income instead of 800k baht in the bank or even a combination of the two.

It you read the OP you will note that the person with a problem is concerned because he cannot a get a income letter from his embassy to prove the income for his extension of stay.

Can you post the "law" that is being broken that you mentioned? You cannot do it since there is no law that is being broken.

[poohy]

23 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

I guess TV now allows posts about illegal  methods to get around the law as lots of these posts aren't getting deleted by the mods. That's great to know that we can now discuss/encourage illegal stuff on TV ????

 

26 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Contact is basically a money lender charging ridiculous fees and illegal interest rates!

Surely a better idea is for gentleman to open a new bank account with Atm card

Borrow 800k credit account from a friend gives them atm card in case of emergencies and minimize risk

Pay say 5K per month interest

Then after  the 3 months return/withdraw  money.

Kindly explain what is illegal about this option? I am waiting!