The ultimate in uncaring stupidity

[pastprime]

Dog hit by car,one side sliced open tail,in half obv beside itself pain/suffering,  as expected from Thai folk,ignore it ,it goes away.

    guess it would have done,but after struggle managed to get hold,no small dog either, almost home with it collapsed bike on side ,leg trapped but still hold of dog....here is the gist ,a dozen Thais watched,looked,nothing,no help ,even for me trapped. Took half hour to untangle,still held onto dog,and limped home,bloodied and bitten/bashed...even tho quite nice dog I'm having it PTS in the morning ,vet I use does it for 500 baht....its the total lack of compassion,just plain dumb maybe better expression from Thai people      rant over

[Horace Lamb]

I suspect they feared that ownership of the problem would cost them money, which they just haven't got. 

[CharlieH]

Post removed.

 

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.
 

[johng]

If you where bitten by the dog best go get some rabies shots !

[ozmeldo]

It sounds inhumane but you need to stay clear of injured dogs, especially soi dogs half feral.

 

I salute your compassion, but I can see why Asians, already unsure around animals would avoid.

 

[jak2002003]

13 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

It sounds inhumane but you need to stay clear of injured dogs, especially soi dogs half feral.

 

I salute your compassion, but I can see why Asians, already unsure around animals would avoid.

 

So you put this dog through the extra stress and agony of being captured, transported while in pain and injured on your motor bike, a bike crash, being handles by a human (which it will not be used to), which must have hurt it more, now a night at a strange place with no pain medication or vet care until the next day..... when you will PUT IT TO SLEEP?

 

Are you sure the nicest thing to do was not to let the mortally injured dog slink of to a quiet place to die in peace in its own home?

 

 

[pastprime]

5 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

So you put this dog through the extra stress and agony of being captured, transported while in pain and injured on your motor bike, a bike crash, being handles by a human (which it will not be used to), which must have hurt it more, now a night at a strange place with no pain medication or vet care until the next day..... when you will PUT IT TO SLEEP?

 

Are you sure the nicest thing to do was not to let the mortally injured dog slink of to a quiet place to die in peace in its own home?

 

 

Think not,it would be maggot wounded for sure ,takes 3 weeks or more before worms finish it off, I have pain medication, l too,dogs suffering is minimal to length of time before death.    dog could be saved, I could treat it ,cure it,but as I have 5 dogs ,no more.  if anyone could offer it a home on completion of treatment (about 3 weeks) welcome,treatment free, nice dog,belonged to someone  before    medium to big, nice temperament    anyone?  otherwise 11 am ish its PTS   no choice

[bubba45]

Thanks for showing compassion and stepping in.

[Bob12345]

The most "humane" thing to do would be to take a rock or shovel and make the suffering end as soon as possible.

But that is not something everyone is up to, and not something i would recommend doing on a busy road with onlookers.

[OmarZaid]

15 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

So you put this dog through the extra stress and agony of being captured, transported while in pain and injured on your motor bike, a bike crash, being handles by a human (which it will not be used to), which must have hurt it more, now a night at a strange place with no pain medication or vet care until the next day..... when you will PUT IT TO SLEEP?

 

Are you sure the nicest thing to do was not to let the mortally injured dog slink of to a quiet place to die in peace in its own home?

 

 

I'd a taken it off to the side and sliced its throat

[Kurtf]

2 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

The most "humane" thing to do would be to take a rock or shovel and make the suffering end as soon as possible.

But that is not something everyone is up to, and not something i would recommend doing on a busy road with onlookers.

EXACTLY Right.

[connda]

I always find it interesting that 'compassionate' Westerners love to say that the most compassionate thing to do is to 'put the dog out of it's misery' as opposed to doing what the OP is has done and attempt to hospitalize and care for the animal.  Kudos OP!

The irony is that all of the 'compassionate' people who would opt to mercifully bash the dogs brains in -- well, my guess if it was another human being they'd be all for wanting another person to suffer in agony without any problem.  In fact, if another person said they wanted to opt for euthanasia as oppose to living in agony, they'd be saying, "No no no no, you need to live.  Life is precious."

Well, 'human life is precious' they'll say.  Animal life?  Not so much

People are really odd.

 

So OP, good for you. 

[Lacessit]

The OP is obviously a dog lover. I don't know if the Thais were indifferent, or did not want to get involved due to possible ramifications - such as rabies. Uncaring stupidity is a bit harsh.

The only practical suggestion I can offer is for the OP to learn how to euthanase suffering animals, and carry the required paraphernalia around with him. He won't be short of opportunity in Thailand.

[wildewillie89]

Sometimes risk is more important than compassion. In a place like Thailand the brain needs to take over the heart. Back home, with barely any disease, let the heart take over as much as you like. Look at the Thai woman who unfortunately died from rabies just from feeding and trying to take care for some strays. That is even before you get into other zootonic diseases that can be transmitted.

It is not that Thais do not care, it is more they just have a different way of looking at it. They pity the animal too much to put it down, even if there is nothing that can be done for it. Whereas we generally see the humane thing to do is put it out of its misery. Of course, there are both Thais and Westerners who couldn't care less either way. 

We had a stray cat that was hit by a car not far from us. Was in awful shape and nothing could be done about it. I wanted to drive the pick up over it to put it out of its misery, but the Thais did not let me. To take it to the vet would have been risky. There had just been a couple cases of rabies in the village, not to mention possible cat scratch disease, lepto etc. In the end it died about 6 hours later. We sent it off to be tested for rabies, it did not have rabies, but it is impossible to know at the time. 

[Foexie]

23 hours ago, pastprime said:

Dog hit by car,one side sliced open tail,in half obv beside itself pain/suffering,  as expected from Thai folk,ignore it ,it goes away.

    guess it would have done,but after struggle managed to get hold,no small dog either, almost home with it collapsed bike on side ,leg trapped but still hold of dog....here is the gist ,a dozen Thais watched,looked,nothing,no help ,even for me trapped. Took half hour to untangle,still held onto dog,and limped home,bloodied and bitten/bashed...even tho quite nice dog I'm having it PTS in the morning ,vet I use does it for 500 baht....its the total lack of compassion,just plain dumb maybe better expression from Thai people      rant over

Did you get treatment for your stroke also??? Not easy to read and understand this post before i did have my 2 morning expressos

[Bob12345]

3 hours ago, connda said:

I always find it interesting that 'compassionate' Westerners love to say that the most compassionate thing to do is to 'put the dog out of it's misery' as opposed to doing what the OP is has done and attempt to hospitalize and care for the animal.  Kudos OP!

The irony is that all of the 'compassionate' people who would opt to mercifully bash the dogs brains in -- well, my guess if it was another human being they'd be all for wanting another person to suffer in agony without any problem.  In fact, if another person said they wanted to opt for euthanasia as oppose to living in agony, they'd be saying, "No no no no, you need to live.  Life is precious."

Well, 'human life is precious' they'll say.  Animal life?  Not so much

People are really odd.

 

So OP, good for you. 

You call it irony, but it actually is not as it is simply based on your misunderstanding how the brains and consciousness of humans and dogs differ.

 

A dog lives "in the moment" only, and is only partly able to understand its own life.

That means it basically runs on pain/pleasure at a certain moment in time, while not being able to experience that for future events.

If this dog is to survive, but not being able to live a dog's life, it is better off not being alive in the first place.

A dog that lies in the corner of your room, cannot move, shits itself, and needs injections every day has nothing to live for anymore and only experiences pain. You could think the dog would be thankful for being alive in the first place, but that is not how a dog's brain works. 

 

A human, on the other hand, works differently. 

We can derive pleasure from things that might happen in the future by our imagination.

Most humans are willing to suffer now to be more happy in the future (we work to get money, we study to get work, we save to spend more in the future, we eat healthy to have a better life in the future, etc), and we can experience happiness on a purely mental level.

Even if you get paralized you can still enjoy your kids, spouse, and if you are lucky be on the forefront of research (Stephen Hawking).

 

Your comparison of a dog's life and a humans life is therefore uncomparable in my view.

 

In fact, if another person said they wanted to opt for euthanasia as oppose to living in agony, they'd be saying, "No no no no, you need to live. 

Where do you base this "fact" on?

I am pro "bashing the dogs head in" and I also support euthanasia, and i suppose many others here think the same. 

I put my 10 month old dog to sleep when it had a ton of health problems coming up and I supported my grandmother's euthanasia when she had limited physical problems but felt it was "her time".

[wgdanson]

Sorry. I was going to post the John Lennon poem about Nigel. But I didn't.

 

[OneEyedPie]

Just now, wgdanson said:

Sorry. I was going to post the John Lennon poem about Nigel.

We're only making plans for Nigel
We only want what's best for him ...

[wgdanson]

Just now, OneEyedPie said:

We're only making plans for Nigel
We only want what's best for him ...

 

[johng]

44 minutes ago, OneEyedPie said:

We're only making plans for Nigel
We only want what's best for him ...

errmm that's XTC isnt it ??    Nigel just needs that helping hand and if young Nigel says he's happy then he's happy ????

[YogaVeg]

On 11/26/2018 at 2:46 AM, Foexie said:

Did you get treatment for your stroke also??? Not easy to read and understand this post

What a charming response. ????

Did you eat gravel for breakfast?

[dick dasterdly]

On 11/26/2018 at 4:11 PM, Bob12345 said:

You call it irony, but it actually is not as it is simply based on your misunderstanding how the brains and consciousness of humans and dogs differ.

 

A dog lives "in the moment" only, and is only partly able to understand its own life.

That means it basically runs on pain/pleasure at a certain moment in time, while not being able to experience that for future events.

If this dog is to survive, but not being able to live a dog's life, it is better off not being alive in the first place.

A dog that lies in the corner of your room, cannot move, shits itself, and needs injections every day has nothing to live for anymore and only experiences pain. You could think the dog would be thankful for being alive in the first place, but that is not how a dog's brain works. 

 

A human, on the other hand, works differently. 

We can derive pleasure from things that might happen in the future by our imagination.

Most humans are willing to suffer now to be more happy in the future (we work to get money, we study to get work, we save to spend more in the future, we eat healthy to have a better life in the future, etc), and we can experience happiness on a purely mental level.

Even if you get paralized you can still enjoy your kids, spouse, and if you are lucky be on the forefront of research (Stephen Hawking).

 

Your comparison of a dog's life and a humans life is therefore uncomparable in my view.

 

In fact, if another person said they wanted to opt for euthanasia as oppose to living in agony, they'd be saying, "No no no no, you need to live. 

Where do you base this "fact" on?

I am pro "bashing the dogs head in" and I also support euthanasia, and i suppose many others here think the same. 

I put my 10 month old dog to sleep when it had a ton of health problems coming up and I supported my grandmother's euthanasia when she had limited physical problems but felt it was "her time".

What rubbish.

 

Much to my horror, one of my dogs that was clearly suffering badly enough from her cancer to no longer have any joy in life at all - 'ran' into my arms when the vet came round to euthanise her....  Despite her suffering, she clearly recognised that the vet - that she knew very well from endless rounds of chemo etc. - was there to end her life ????.

 

My 'baby' that was also suffering from cancer and for the previous day had shown no interest in me or anything else at all - suddenly looked into my eyes as the vet came to the house to put him to sleep.  I'm crying as I type this, remembering the horror and pain.

 

Dogs know when they are about to be euthanised in my experience, and (hopefully) take comfort in the arms of those who love them so much.

[wildewillie89]

It is an interesting topic. I am not sure either way. I think research has been done that shows cows do not understand what is happening. Whether they are going through the same passage to receive an injection or to be slaughtered they behave the same. Pigs are more complex. From what I remember from my teen years some research says things like heart rate remained the same when watching other pigs be slaughtered. Whereas other experts believe they have the emotional intelligence of a monkey so would have an idea of what is about to happen to them. Dogs I think would get close to pigs in different areas so it is quite possible. 

Dogs I am not entirely sure. In terms of predicting the future, it is usually more routine. For example, the dog picking up its lead as it is getting close to the time of his daily walk. Or wolves maybe knowing future migration patterns of animals. Even smell (smells disappearing) plays a part in dogs ability to work out time (future). 

Euthanasia is a peaceful way to go though. A lot of the time the dog is that sedated/stressed/in pain that they wouldn't have much of an idea of what is going on around them let alone forming complex emotions about what is about to happen to them. I wouldn't be surprised if the dog can or cannot sense it though. One of few topics I do not see in black or white lol. 

Personal stories, although very touching, are difficult. These sorts of situations are usually very traumatic or stressful for the owner so they naturally look for any sort of sign to feel comfort. Not saying that happened in the above two cases, but it is something to keep in mind. We just have to look at things like witnesses of traumatic events being ripped apart by defence lawyers, or even the anti-Bravecto campaign of people finding anything to link to a stressful event to find comfort or answers. Emotions do sometimes change how people remember things.  

[jak2002003]

One of my dogs hates the vets, will start shaking and panting, crying and trying to climb into my arms or run out the door.  It does not mean it thinks its going to be put to sleep, but it clearly understands that there is probably going to be some nasty experience happen in that building, from remembering injections etc from before.

 

 

[YogaVeg]

20 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Dogs know when they are about to be euthanised in my experience, and (hopefully) take comfort in the arms of those who love them so much.

I read an interesting article some time ago, written by veterinarians, in an emotional appeal to dog owners- asking owners to please be there for your animal when the time comes. Many folks don't want anything to do with it and avoid the process.

Leaving it to strangers.

 

But these vets, who put animals to sleep regularly, agreed that in those last moments, the terrified animal desperately seeks the people who were its whole life. These vets believe the animal knows what's happening, and they find it cruel that owners aren't there to comfort their animals.

 

From what I've seen, it resonates with me.

 

Be there. Comfort that animal. You were its entire universe.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, wildewillie89 said:

It is an interesting topic. I am not sure either way. I think research has been done that shows cows do not understand what is happening. Whether they are going through the same passage to receive an injection or to be slaughtered they behave the same. Pigs are more complex. From what I remember from my teen years some research says things like heart rate remained the same when watching other pigs be slaughtered. Whereas other experts believe they have the emotional intelligence of a monkey so would have an idea of what is about to happen to them. Dogs I think would get close to pigs in different areas so it is quite possible. 

Dogs I am not entirely sure. In terms of predicting the future, it is usually more routine. For example, the dog picking up its lead as it is getting close to the time of his daily walk. Or wolves maybe knowing future migration patterns of animals. Even smell (smells disappearing) plays a part in dogs ability to work out time (future). 

Euthanasia is a peaceful way to go though. A lot of the time the dog is that sedated/stressed/in pain that they wouldn't have much of an idea of what is going on around them let alone forming complex emotions about what is about to happen to them. I wouldn't be surprised if the dog can or cannot sense it though. One of few topics I do not see in black or white lol. 

Personal stories, although very touching, are difficult. These sorts of situations are usually very traumatic or stressful for the owner so they naturally look for any sort of sign to feel comfort. Not saying that happened in the above two cases, but it is something to keep in mind. We just have to look at things like witnesses of traumatic events being ripped apart by defence lawyers, or even the anti-Bravecto campaign of people finding anything to link to a stressful event to find comfort or answers. Emotions do sometimes change how people remember things.  

I can assure you that I'm not mis-remembering those experiences - even though they were obviously very traumatic.

 

I repeat that the first dog mentioned (Coco) knew the vet very well, as we'd spent a lot of time at the vets in the past few months for blood tests/chemo etc. - and liked him.  Nonetheless, even though for the past 24 hours she'd barely moved - she KNEW that this time it was different, and 'ran' into my arms for comfort.

 

My 'baby' (Mikka) had also shown no interest in me or anything else for the prior 24 hours (extremely unusual as we had such a close bond) - to the extent that when the vet arrived and asked whether I wanted to hold him whilst he was put to sleep, I said 'no' as he hadn't moved or looked at anything for a long time - and so I didn't want to disturb him.  It was only then he opened his eyes, and stared into mine again in the same old way that was so familiar.  So of course I rushed to the side of the sofa on which he was lying, and held him in my arms.  I'm crying again as I type this - but it needs to be said as I'm 100% sure that dogs know far more than so many people (in their arrogance) believe.

[jak2002003]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I can assure you that I'm not mis-remembering those experiences - even though they were obviously very traumatic.

 

I repeat that the first dog mentioned (Coco) knew the vet very well, as we'd spent a lot of time at the vets in the past few months for blood tests/chemo etc. - and liked him.  Nonetheless, even though for the past 24 hours she'd barely moved - she KNEW that this time it was different, and 'ran' into my arms for comfort.

 

My 'baby' (Mikka) had also shown no interest in me or anything else for the prior 24 hours (extremely unusual as we had such a close bond) - to the extent that when the vet arrived and asked whether I wanted to hold him whilst he was put to sleep, I said 'no' as he hadn't moved or looked at anything for a long time - and so I didn't want to disturb him.  It was only then he opened his eyes, and stared into mine again in the same old way that was so familiar.  So of course I rushed to the side of the sofa on which he was lying, and held him in my arms.  I'm crying again as I type this - but it needs to be said as I'm 100% sure that dogs know far more than so many people (in their arrogance) believe.

You are right.  Not just dogs, but most animals.  Reading you post brought back sad memories when my dog died a few months back.  

[madusa]

On 11/26/2018 at 9:35 AM, OmarZaid said:

I'd a taken it off to the side and sliced its throat

Yes I wold do that too or may be put a plastic bag over its head and tighten the bag with string. Sounds cruel but to let it drag on and on is the pure torture. Just end the suffering folks. Don't tell me anything else just wasting time.

[wildewillie89]

22 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I can assure you that I'm not mis-remembering those experiences - even though they were obviously very traumatic.

 

I repeat that the first dog mentioned (Coco) knew the vet very well, as we'd spent a lot of time at the vets in the past few months for blood tests/chemo etc. - and liked him.  Nonetheless, even though for the past 24 hours she'd barely moved - she KNEW that this time it was different, and 'ran' into my arms for comfort.

 

My 'baby' (Mikka) had also shown no interest in me or anything else for the prior 24 hours (extremely unusual as we had such a close bond) - to the extent that when the vet arrived and asked whether I wanted to hold him whilst he was put to sleep, I said 'no' as he hadn't moved or looked at anything for a long time - and so I didn't want to disturb him.  It was only then he opened his eyes, and stared into mine again in the same old way that was so familiar.  So of course I rushed to the side of the sofa on which he was lying, and held him in my arms.  I'm crying again as I type this - but it needs to be said as I'm 100% sure that dogs know far more than so many people (in their arrogance) believe.

I also believe that dogs know a lot more than we believe, a bit like toddlers understand more than people think they do (dogs are often compared to toddlers in terms of social intelligence anyway). Children understand death at about 4, with a small minority understanding it at 3. So there would need to be studies comparing emotional intelligence, ability to predict future from the current stimulus etc. 

Personal stories are a form of evidence, we all have them. However, the way my brain works is it would need to be a conclusive study of a number of dogs that takes some variables out to get a definite answer.  

Until then I am on the fence. In terms of what I would prefer, probably that the dog does not understand. The dogs last few minutes will be hopefully a happy time spent with the owner then off to sleep it goes. But I say that as my dogs whole life purpose is to protect, so if the dogs knew they were going it would be a very stressful time for them as they would also be able to think they are failing their whole life purpose. 

As for the vets wanting people in the room, a different vet will say different things. I would be inclined to think the majority of vets say it so the dog feels comfort in its last minutes, rather than being put in a strange room with strange people or in a room that has shown painful treatment in the past (vaccines etc). I would also be inclined to think that vets suggest that to help the 'closure' aspect from the owners point of view. Also something that may be educational to children (of course give the child a choice after explaining why and what will happen), in how to handle emotions, which is why I would take in my kids if they wanted to when the time comes. 

*Edit: Just because someone is a vet does not qualify them on this matter. It qualifies them as much as a non vet watching dogs being put down. Vets do not study this sort of thing. They study how to make the death as pain free and humane as possible. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by wildewillie89

[Bob12345]

On 12/19/2018 at 2:11 PM, dick dasterdly said:

What rubbish.

 

Much to my horror, one of my dogs that was clearly suffering badly enough from her cancer to no longer have any joy in life at all - 'ran' into my arms when the vet came round to euthanise her....  Despite her suffering, she clearly recognised that the vet - that she knew very well from endless rounds of chemo etc. - was there to end her life ????.

 

My 'baby' that was also suffering from cancer and for the previous day had shown no interest in me or anything else at all - suddenly looked into my eyes as the vet came to the house to put him to sleep.  I'm crying as I type this, remembering the horror and pain.

 

Dogs know when they are about to be euthanised in my experience, and (hopefully) take comfort in the arms of those who love them so much.

What exactly is rubbish what i said?

You tell a story that does not put in question anything i said.

 

As said, a dog lives in the moment, if you suggest euthanasing it, and the dog magically understand your words (it is more likely it understand the situation), its instincts of survival will kick in. It is not worried about its offspring, seeing you getting old, or seeing its lovely dogfriend turn 8 next month, its just scared of its life at that moment.