Coming back to Thailand after deportation.

[Andrew23]

Hello.

 

I have been deported 9 months ago trying to enter Thailand at Suvarnabhumi Airport.

 

I am 30 years old Ukrainian.

 

The real reason was "fake student visa" and the official one was "insufficient funds, looking for a job".

 

Here is the stamp

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hl41rgjsvirhjf/Deportation Stamp.jpg?dl=0

 

However, in reality, I run some IT business outside Thailand and I have a bank statement of the foreign bank account with several million baht on it.

 

Also, I am married on a Thai woman and  I have a statement from her Thai bank account with 500,000 baht. 

 

1. What do you think are the chances to enter Thailand again after this kind of deportation? How strict are the rules?

2. Does the place of entering Thailand matter? I've heard an advice to enter Thailand on the Lao border. Why it should have lighter rules? Is it legal to exploit this lightness? I plan to enter at Pattaya airport. I am really scared to enter in Suvarnabhumi ????

3. Does the single tourist visa increase the chances to enter Thai? I plan to enter Thailand on 30-days stamp and then make a marriage visa inside Thailand.

 

If you have any experience of coming back to Thailand after being deported, please, share.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Andrew23

[Maestro]

Ideally, you should arrive in Thailand with a single entry non-immigrant visa category O, non-O visa for short. Then, during the last 30 days of your 90-fay permission to stay, apply for a one-year extension of stay.

[Maestro]

On 5 March, you were not deported; you were denied entry. That's a big difference.

 

On your next trip to Thailand, if you come with a non-O visa, don't enter into a discussion about having a business outside Thailand and wanting to stay long-term in Thailand. The purpose of your visit is to visit your Thai wife for 90 days, nothing else.

 

The part of your wanting to stay long-term comes later, when you apply at your local immigration office for your one-year extension of stay and in the field for "reason for the application" you write "to live with my Thai wife"

Edited November 26, 2018 by Maestro

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, Andrew23 said:

1. What do you think are the chances to enter Thailand again after this kind of deportation? How strict are the rules?

The chances are good. but you should avoid entering as a tourist.

 

Although you were technically deported it wasn’t recorded as a formal deportation. Having been denied entry doesn’t prohibit you from trying to enter again.

 

7 hours ago, Andrew23 said:

2. Does the place of entering Thailand matter? I've heard an advice to enter Thailand on the Lao border. Why it should have lighter rules? Is it legal to exploit this lightness? I plan to enter at Pattaya airport. I am really scared to enter in Suvarnabhumi ????

No it doesn’t matter. BKK shouldn’t be a problem with the correct visa.

 

7 hours ago, Andrew23 said:

3. Does the single tourist visa increase the chances to enter Thai? I plan to enter Thailand on 30-days stamp and then make a marriage visa inside Thailand.

Entering under visa exemption (“30-days stamp”) is a bad idea. A SETV would be better and increase the chance of not being questioned or denied entry,

 

BUT — as you’re married to a Thai — you should get a Single Entry Non-immigrant ‘O’ visa. That is the correct visa and gives you the best chance of hassle free entry.

 

I suggest — whatever visa you use — that you carry copies of your wife’s ID and Tabian Baan (house registration book), and a copy of your marriage certificate.

[peterb17]

As usual only half the story - surely you do not get refused entry - unless there is quite a good reason- especially if you are married to a Thai citizen. 

Good luck 

[Andrew23]

41 minutes ago, peterb17 said:

As usual only half the story - surely you do not get refused entry - unless there is quite a good reason- especially if you are married to a Thai citizen. 

Good luck 

They did have a good reason to refuse entry. I lived in Thailand 6 years and had 5 student visas. And, to tell truth, have never gone to school. I wasn't married on her at the time of deportation but she was present there and had a talk with officers.

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Andrew23

[Andrew23]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

 

Although you were technically deported it wasn’t recorded as a formal deportation. Having been denied entry doesn’t prohibit you from trying to enter again.

The airline's employee who was holding my passport until I boarded onto the plane and who escorted me to the prison's style waiting room was continuously talking about 10 years ban to enter Thailand. He was speaking half Thai/half English and I haven't understood him well enough. I just decided I was blacklisted for 10 years. But I haven't found still any other confirmation of this. I did several checks and all of them confirmed that I am not blacklisted.  What confused me the most is that he advised me to enter Thailand through Lao border.

 

Another detail is that I sad that I am working as a programmer remotely for the foreign company and the officer's reaction was "You are a brave man saying this". That's the last thing I've heard from the officers except "follow there/follow here". But I suppose my "confession" played a critical role since working in Thailand even remotely holding non-immigrant visa is illegal.

 

Why do you think the airline's employee who had a long conversation with the officers regarding my case could say that I am banned to enter Thailand for 10 years?

Edited November 26, 2018 by Andrew23

[Scottjouro]

By the looks of things you were not deported but denied entry - 2 very different things, and in this instance based on the prima facie information presented to the IO, he didnt believe your reason for bring admitted to Thailand and his decision appears valid 

 

1. Student visa 

2. Being married to Thai woman

3. Stated your operating an overseas business, (from Thailand on supposes ?)

4 intent to stay long term in Thailand - see 2.0

 

therefore in the IOs eyes you are trying to stay long term in Thailand on the incorrect visa, if your married you could be on a "O" visa, and to stay how are you supporting yourself ?...you must be running a business from Thailand, ergo if no WP you are working illegally 

 

"I am working as aprogrammer remotely for the foreign company"

Edited November 26, 2018 by Scottjouro

[Scottjouro]

50 minutes ago, Andrew23 said:

The airline's employee who was holding my passport until I boarded onto the plane and who escorted me to the prison's style waiting room was continuously talking about 10 years ban to enter Thailand. He was speaking half Thai/half English and I haven't understood him well enough. I just decided I was blacklisted for 10 years. But I haven't found still any other confirmation of this. I did several checks and all of them confirmed that I am not blacklisted.  What confused me the most is that he advised me to enter Thailand through Lao border.

 

Another detail is that I sad that I am working as a programmer remotely for the foreign company and the officer's reaction was "You are a brave man saying this". That's the last thing I've heard from the officers except "follow there/follow here". But I suppose my "confession" played a critical role since working in Thailand even remotely holding non-immigrant visa is illegal.

 

Why do you think the airline's employee who had a long conversation with the officers regarding my case could say that I am banned to enter Thailand for 10 years?

Airline holding your pp until boarding is nothing usual in this case or infers you have been deported, if you had been formally deported or banned you would know about it - you have been denied entry thats all,

 

you need to dump your current passport and get a new one and apply for a proper appropriate visa ie an "O" visa your married to a Thai national and want to stay with your wife, once getting the visa, show 400k in a Thai bank account  (you state you have millions in an overseas account, so this should pose little problem)

 

Get your extension of stay...no more problems 

 

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Andrew23 said:

Why do you think the airline's employee who had a long conversation with the officers regarding my case could say that I am banned to enter Thailand for 10 years?

The stamp in your passport is just s standard denied entry stamp.

 

If you had been banned you’d of had notification in writing and almost certainly have a stamp in your passport confirming the ban.

 

It sounds like you gave the IO several reasons to deny entry, but no reason to ban you, and without evidence of a ban the airline employees opinion was wrong.

[Stevemercer]

Good advice here.

 

Go to the Thai embassy/consulate in your home country and apply for a 90 day 'non O' visa based on marriage to a Thai citizen. Once you have this visa, travel to Thailand and you will be OK on entry. After 45 days, you can look at a 12 month extension based on marriage to a Thai. You will need 400,000 Baht in a Thai bank account in your own name and you should organise this as soon as you are back in Thailand.

 

While you have been denied entry on suspicion of 'working' in Thailand, or not being a fair dinkum student, you have a second chance to line up the correct visa and get back into the Kingdom.

[JackThompson]

If paying for the education, might as well get what you are paying for by showing up.  Yes, immigration has created "arrangements" to allow skipping classes (for years) - and you may have to pay an "extra-fee" to get your extensions, even if attending class - but it never hurts to follow the rules.  In this case, even if you had attended classes diligently, I doubt there would have been any difference in this interaction. 

 

His threatened 10-year ban was likely for being in the country illegally for years, while not a legit-student.  You probably were not prosecuted for this, because they know one of their buddies was stuffing his pockets to allow this to occur. 

 

This is the dynamic one must be prepared for when paying "extra" for extensions - that the same outfit selling their favors from one hand may throw you under the bus later with the other hand.  If the IO doing the deed had not been paying a share into the proper  channels and/or had recently been thrown under the bus himself, it is possible you could have indeed been banned.

 

As per other's comments, above - I would get a new passport, then get a Non-O Visa to "visit your wife."  The new passport probably isn't necessary, but could reduce scrutiny at the consulate, when applying for the Visa.

Edited November 26, 2018 by JackThompson

[Andrew23]

1 hour ago, Stevemercer said:

Go to the Thai embassy/consulate in your home country and apply for a 90 day 'non O' visa based on marriage to a Thai citizen.

Thai consulate in my home country (Ukraine) doesn't issue non-O marriage visas. Seems, it is possible to make the visa in other countries, for example, Malaysia or Laos.

 

Do you or someone else here have any experience on issuing non-O marriage visa outside Thailand and not in a home country?

 

Do they usually require to be a permanent resident in the country to be able to request this kind of visa?

 

Especially considering our marriage certificate wasn't issued in Thailand and I can't provide a statement from a Thai bank despite I still can transfer money to my Bangkok Bank account.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Andrew23

[Scottjouro]

15 minutes ago, Andrew23 said:

Thai consulate in my home country (Ukraine) doesn't issue non-O marriage visas. Seems, it is possible to make it in other countries, for example, Malaysia or Laos.

 

Do you or someone else here have any experience on issuing this kind of visa outside Thailand?

 

Do they usually require to be a permanent resident in the country to be able to request this kind of visa?

 

Especially considering our marriage certificate wasn't issued in Thailand and I can't provide a statement from a Thai bank despite I still can transfer money to my Bangkok Bank account.

Are you legally married with a marriage certificate ?

Can you put THB 400k in a Thai bank account ?

 

1. Ditch the passport with entry denied stamp, get a new clean PP

2. Apply for single entry O visa to visit Thai wife

3. Land in Thailand and convert your O visa to extension of stay via THB 400k method in Thailand

4. Report your address to Immigration every 90 days while in country

5. Renew extension of stay based on 400k method, annually

[elviajero]

19 minutes ago, Andrew23 said:

Thai consulate in my home country (Ukraine) doesn't issue non-O marriage visas. Seems, it is possible to make the visa in other countries, for example, Malaysia or Laos.

 

Do you or someone else here have any experience on issuing non-O marriage visa outside Thailand and not in a home country?

 

Do they usually require to be a permanent resident in the country to be able to request this kind of visa?

 

Especially considering our marriage certificate wasn't issued in Thailand and I can't provide a statement from a Thai bank despite I still can transfer money to my Bangkok Bank account.

You can easily get a non ‘O’ visa in Laos or Maylasia using your foreign issued marriage certificate without being resident. If it’s not in English or Thai you’ll need it translated.

 

If you apply in Laos you don’t need to provide any financial statements.

[Andrew23]

1 minute ago, Scottjouro said:

Are you legally married with a marriage certificate ?

Yes. We married in Ukraine. The marriage certificate is in the Ukrainian language. However, I have "approved" it in Thai consulate in Ukraine.

 

2 minutes ago, Scottjouro said:

Can you put THB 400k in a Thai bank account ?

Yes, I can send money online to my Bangkok Bank account. But I don't see how I can get a printed bank statement being outside Thailand

 

4 minutes ago, Scottjouro said:

1. Ditch the passport with entry denied stamp, get a new clean PP

2. Apply for single entry O visa to visit Thai wife

3. Land in Thailand and convert your O visa to extension of stay via THB 400k method in Thailand

4. Report your address to Immigration every 90 days while in country

5. Renew extension of stay based on 400k method, annually

This is what I am going to do, thanks ????

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, Scottjouro said:

A new passport is not  necessary LOL..

 

let him apply for a visa with his current passport with an "entry denied" stamp in his passport and see what the embassy or consulate does... Visa denied possibly ?...some people just dont think do they ?...

Getting a new passport isn’t necessary.

 

Embassies/consulates won’t care about a denial stamp. As long as you provide the documents required for the visa being applied for they will happily take your money. 

[Scottjouro]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

Getting a new passport isn’t necessary.

 

Embassies/consulates won’t care about a denial stamp. As long as you provide the documents required for the visa being applied for they will happily take your money. 

Are you sure about that ? And confident enough to cover all the OP expenses if he is denied a visa on the basis of that stamp in his passport..for the cost of a new passport is it worth tsking the chance ? 

[JackThompson]

Another reason for a new passport - gaining-entry to Laos.  They are known to deny-boarding to people with overstays to Thailand in their passports, so not sure what they would think of a denied-entry stamp - even an old one.  It might cause an issue entering other countries also.  Probably not - but maybe.  Why chance it? 

 

1 hour ago, Andrew23 said:

Do you or someone else here have any experience on issuing non-O marriage visa outside Thailand and not in a home country?

Yes - easy to do in Laos or Vietnam.  You need your marriage-certificate, with Thai or English translation, plus copies of your wife's ID and House-Book, both signed by her. 

 

In Vietnam only, you also need a letter from your wife requesting they issue the visa for you.  I mention Vietnam, because perhaps there are better air-travel options to that location from Ukraine.
 

46 minutes ago, Andrew23 said:

We married in Ukraine. The marriage certificate is in the Ukrainian language. However, I have "approved" it in Thai consulate in Ukraine. 

You will need a translation of the wedding-certificate to Thai, to apply for the Non-O Visa. 

What does the "approved" consist of?  It is a separate Thai document, or just a stamp on the certificate?  

 

Do any other posters know if the "approved" marriage-cert, plus the translation, will be OK in Laos?

 

46 minutes ago, Andrew23 said:

Yes, I can send money online to my Bangkok Bank account. But I don't see how I can get a printed bank statement being outside Thailand

The money does not need to be in a Thai bank to use it for meeting Visa qualifications at a Thai consulate abroad.  But if applying in Laos (or Vietnam), you don't need to meet any financials to get the visa.

 

You will need to show the money in a Thai bank to apply for the 1-year extension inside Thailand, but this is done after you have entered using the Non-O Visa, and received a 90-day permission of stay from it.

Edited November 26, 2018 by JackThompson

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Scottjouro said:

Are you sure about that ? And confident enough to cover all the OP expenses if he is denied a visa on the basis of that stamp in his passport..for the cost of a new passport is it worth tsking the chance ? 

Show me one report from someone being denied a non-immigrant visa because of a denied entry stamp.

 

There have been reports of people denied visa exempt entry that have gone straight to the nearest consulate and applied for a visa without any problem.

 

If he was applying for a Tourist Visa I’d be slightly concerned, but if he’s applying for a Non ‘O’ to visit his Thai wife, and can provide the relevant documents, the visa will be issued. 

 

I’m not saying getting a new passport is a bad idea, just that it’s unnecessary.

 

Maybe you should give the money to the OP to pay for a new passport they don’t need.

[Andrew23]

The question arises in my mind.

 

I confessed that I was working illegally in Thailand for a long period of time and this is a law violation. Let's add to this the 5-years fake student visa and the lie to the officer that I attended the school. Can these violations be a reason for imprisonment?  If yes, then I can be imprisoned in Thailand despite I was punished by the entry denial. Isn't it?

 

I mean that I will enter Thailand legally but it will not automatically make me innocent and sooner or later I will be punished for the past offenses.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Andrew23

[JackThompson]

43 minutes ago, Andrew23 said:

The question arises in my mind.

 

I confessed that I was working illegally in Thailand for a long period of time and this is a law violation. Let's add to this the 5-years fake student visa and the lie to the officer that I attended the school. Can these violations be a reason for imprisonment?  If yes, then I can be imprisoned in Thailand despite I was punished by the entry denial. Isn't it? 

 

I mean that I will enter Thailand legally but it will not automatically make me innocent and sooner or later I will be punished for the past offenses.

You said you were denied-entry.  This was based on immigration seeing ED Visas and extensions in your passport from previous visits, and deciding it was "too many" to be legit - correct?  Yet you were not arrested at that time.

 

Consider: Payments for ED extensions are done via schools, continuing now.  Even legit-students often must pay (varies by immigration-office / area).  Similarly, thousands are here on agent-procured extensions of all sorts, which are given top-priority queuing while legit applicants wait in line.  Then the legit-applicants may be hassled and/or repeatedly denied, to force them to pay through agents (varies by office and type of extension).  Hopefully, that provides some context.

 

As to working for a foreign-company while staying in Thailand - this is not prosecuted, even when people are caught doing it red-handed.  This has happened in 2 different well-publicized cases (Udon Thanni and Chang Mai), and no charges for "illegal working" were filed in either situation.  Many have reported telling IOs they were doing this to explain their income, and stamped-in - though not recommended, in case they hit one like you encountered.

Edited November 26, 2018 by JackThompson

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Andrew23 said:

The question arises in my mind.

 

I confessed that I was working illegally in Thailand for a long period of time and this is a law violation. Let's add to this the 5-years fake student visa and the lie to the officer that I attended the school. Can these violations be a reason for imprisonment?  If yes, then I can be imprisoned in Thailand despite I was punished by the entry denial. Isn't it?

 

I mean that I will enter Thailand legally but it will not automatically make me innocent and sooner or later I will be punished for the past offenses.

Although you were working illegally it’s not the type of work the authorities are too bothered about.

 

It is unlikely much detail about your “confessions” will be recorded on the system, and you will not be imprisoned for any “offences” you’ve described. 

 

If they let you back in they will not come after you for “past offences”.

 

Whatever you do you stand the ‘small’ chance of being denied entry. But once you’re in, and have sorted out the right permission to stay, you should have no problems whatsoever. However, in future keep your work to yourself. Most people in your situation do not disclose their work or  simply claim they have a foreign business providing them with a passive income.

 

The main reason for your denied entry would have been due to staying long term without the correct permission to stay. Being married and having a visa/extension based on that marriage is a legitimate reason to stay long term and should firmly put your past in the past.

[overc]

9 hours ago, Andrew23 said:

The airline's employee who was holding my passport until I boarded onto the plane and who escorted me to the prison's style waiting room was continuously talking about 10 years ban to enter Thailand. He was speaking half Thai/half English and I haven't understood him well enough. I just decided I was blacklisted for 10 years. But I haven't found still any other confirmation of this. I did several checks and all of them confirmed that I am not blacklisted.  What confused me the most is that he advised me to enter Thailand through Lao border.

 

Another detail is that I sad that I am working as a programmer remotely for the foreign company and the officer's reaction was "You are a brave man saying this". That's the last thing I've heard from the officers except "follow there/follow here". But I suppose my "confession" played a critical role since working in Thailand even remotely holding non-immigrant visa is illegal.

 

Why do you think the airline's employee who had a long conversation with the officers regarding my case could say that I am banned to enter Thailand for 10 years?

 

You seem to understand Thailand very well to listen to an idiot talking about what he doesn't even understand. Is your wife the same kind of champion ?!

How can you be caught running a foreign business, it's so impossible except if you also are a champion who doesn't know how to keep your mouth shut !

And now thinking to enter Thailand coming from a far away country, you really don't get it right ? The only smart way to process is to fly to Cambodia and then fly again from Cambodia to Thailand, or even cross at a land border, but maybe it is too difficult to read a forum prior to taking stupid decisions ?!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by overc

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post (false information)

[BestB]

11 hours ago, Scottjouro said:

The difference is easy to understand

 

Denied entry means your not allowed in, but welcome to try again

 

Blacklisting AKA PNG, (persona non grata) in this instance means your legally declared not allowed to re-enter a country permanently or for a pre-determined period and is usually coupled with deportation, ie you were caught in country already

 

So simple put

 

Denied entry - not allowed in the door

Blacklist - caught inside the house, kicked out and not welcome back 

 

 

And someone struggles with basic English understanding?

[ubonjoe]

12 hours ago, Andrew23 said:

Thai consulate in my home country (Ukraine) doesn't issue non-O marriage visas. Seems, it is possible to make the visa in other countries, for example, Malaysia or Laos.

Do you or someone else here have any experience on issuing non-O marriage visa outside Thailand and not in a home country?

Do they usually require to be a permanent resident in the country to be able to request this kind of visa?

Especially considering our marriage certificate wasn't issued in Thailand and I can't provide a statement from a Thai bank despite I still can transfer money to my Bangkok Bank account.

I suggest you ask the consulate which Thai embassy is responsible for Ukraine. You should be able to apply for the non-o visa there. They might even be able to accept the application and forward it to the embassy for approval.

I guessing that embassy in Romania may be the one responsible for Ukraine. If the consulate is not willing to help you could try contacting them. http://www.thaiembassy.org/bucharest/en/organize/26137-Location-ที่ตั้ง.html

If you can not get the non-o visa you should at least apply for a tourist visa rather that trying to enter on a visa on arrival.

If possible I suggest you have your marriage certificate translated to English before leaving Ukraine. Thai would be best but that might be difficult to get done there. After arriving here you should have it translated to Thai and have the translation certified by the Consular Affairs Department of the MFA.

As said you can get a non-o visa at a nearby embassy or consulate. 

To apply for a one year extension of stay at immigration you will have to register your foreign marriage at an Amphoe to get a Kor Ror 22 marriage registry.

 

[DJ54]

At 24 you were bucking the system and did so for 6 years. Why was that? Is it your intention to do the same or similar again....

 

9 months ago you were denied entry or told to leave.... for working

and if I read it correctly you weren’t married at the time... When did

you get married....

 

Either your sincerely want to come back to Thailand to be with your wife.........or your hoping to find a way to squirm back in.......

 

You spoke about fly in Pattaya...... 

 

Anyway Good Luck if your being truthful about your situation....

You do raise some concerns.....

 

 

[007 RED]

OP…. I would confirm what several other TV members have already advised you.   The stamp in your passport indicates that you were denied entry, and this is very different from being deported.

 

Several members have also suggested that you obtain a new passport.  Doing so will have little, or no, effect on you obtaining a visa as Embassies/Consulates are only interested in the fact that you have supply the correct documentation to support your application and the fee.

 

FYI – Embassies/Consulates currently do not have access to the Immigration System.

 

Please bear in mind that getting a new passport will not ‘wipe your slate clean’ with Thai Immigration.  When you next enter the Kingdom and the Immigration Officer places the photo page of your new passport onto the scanner on his/her desk, the Immigration Computer System will, within a couple of seconds, link your new and previous passport together and the Immigration Officer will then have access to your complete entry/exit history.

 

It should also be remembered that even obtaining a visa prior to arrival does not guarantee that you will be allowed to enter the Kingdom.  The decision to admit you, or deny your entry, is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer.

[Scottjouro]

22 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

OP…. I would confirm what several other TV members have already advised you.   The stamp in your passport indicates that you were denied entry, and this is very different from being deported.

 

Several members have also suggested that you obtain a new passport.  Doing so will have little, or no, effect on you obtaining a visa as Embassies/Consulates are only interested in the fact that you have supply the correct documentation to support your application and the fee.

 

FYI – Embassies/Consulates currently do not have access to the Immigration System.

 

Please bear in mind that getting a new passport will not ‘wipe your slate clean’ with Thai Immigration.  When you next enter the Kingdom and the Immigration Officer places the photo page of your new passport onto the scanner on his/her desk, the Immigration Computer System will, within a couple of seconds, link your new and previous passport together and the Immigration Officer will then have access to your complete entry/exit history.

 

It should also be remembered that even obtaining a visa prior to arrival does not guarantee that you will be allowed to enter the Kingdom.  The decision to admit you, or deny your entry, is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer.

You are contradicting yourself you know that dont you ?

 

Why would one be worried about an embassy or consulate accessing the immigration system, if the denied stamp in his passport is not an issue then ? Ergo the stamp in the passport indicates he has already had an issue entering Thailand, so please tell me why the embassy wouldnt question it ?

 

Given the definitve answers regarding denied entry stamps in passports seems these people must have had a lot of experience being denied entry into Thailand to speak so definitively thats its not a problem from personal experience ?