Britain will head into unknown if Brexit deal is rejected - May

[webfact]

Britain will head into unknown if Brexit deal is rejected - May

By Kylie MacLellan and William James

 

Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May leaves Downing Street, London, Britain November 26, 2018. REUTERS/Toby Melville

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Prime Minister Theresa May warned on Monday that Britain would be thrust into the unknown if parliament rejects the Brexit deal she has negotiated with the European Union, as lawmakers from all sides lined up to criticise the agreement.

 

Under the deal secured with EU leaders on Sunday, Britain will leave the bloc in March with continued close trade ties, but the odds now look stacked against May getting it approved by a divided British parliament.

 

As May tried to win over her critics, lawmakers from both her own Conservatives and opposition parties attacked the deal, warning that parliament would not support it, and urging her to set out an alternative plan.

 

"There is not a better deal available," May told the House of Commons. "We can back this deal, deliver on the vote of the referendum and move on to building a brighter future .. or this House can choose to reject this deal and go back to square one."

 

"No-one knows what would happen if this deal doesn’t pass. It would open the door to more division and more uncertainty, with all the risks that will entail."

 

Parliament will vote on the deal on Dec. 11 after a total of five days of debate, May's office said.

 

May has warned lawmakers that if they reject it, Britain could face leaving the EU without a deal - something businesses say would hurt the world's fifth largest economy.

 

The EU has also been clear that there is very little appetite to reopen the Brexit negotiations if parliament votes it down.

 

Her plan faces opposition from both eurosceptics and europhiles among her party's 314 lawmakers and around 313 lawmakers from opposition parties. The 10 lawmakers of the Democratic Unionist Party, the Northern Irish group that props up May's minority government, said at the weekend they will vote against the deal.

 

May needs to win a simple majority in parliament - 320 votes if all active lawmakers turn out and vote - but former whips, who have long studied parliamentary arithmetic, say the prime minister may end up needing only 305 votes if illnesses and abstentions are accounted for.

 

"This will never get through ... it is as dead as a dodo," Conservative lawmaker Mark Francois said, adding he agreed with the Sun newspaper's verdict that the deal was "a surrender".

 

"Prime Minister I plead with you, the House of Commons has never ever surrendered to anybody and it won't start now."

 

Asked if May was confident of getting a deal through parliament, her spokesman told reporters: "Yes."

 

May said her deal was in the national interest, but opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said ploughing on with a deal that did not have the support of parliament was "an act of national self-harm".

 

Her de facto deputy David Lidington will meet Labour lawmakers on Monday to discuss the deal, her spokesman said, in a move seen by many as an attempt to win their support.

 

May sought to reassure pro-Brexit lawmakers angered by comments from French President Emmanuel Macron on Sunday demanding access to UK fishing waters after Brexit. These remarks deepened worries that Britain will be forced into a so-called backstop to avoid a return of controls on the border between Northern Ireland and the Irish republic.

 

"The EU have maintained throughout this process that they wanted to link overall access to markets to access to fisheries. They failed in the Withdrawal Agreement, and they failed again in the Political Declaration," May said.

 

"It is no surprise some are already trying to lay down markers again for the future relationship, but they should be getting used to the answer by now: it is not going to happen."

 

(Additional reporting by Elizabeth Piper and Alistair Smout; Editing by Raissa Kasolowsky and David Stamp)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-11-27

[z42]

Pure and utter farce. The deal appeases nobody who actually voted i suspect.

A no deal brexit is the likeliest option at this stage. Certainly not ideal by any stretch, yet the EU minus the UK stands to lose a good size of its revenues and political clout too.

At least when it is binned May will be forced to resign. She has made herself appear pathetic and deluded for sj long now

[terryw]

May will lose the vote in Parliament by 180 votes. There is another option, she should resign on December 12th. Then it is likely that she will have to be dragged screaming from 10 Downing Street.

[Briggsy]

If you listen to May's comments over the last 2 weeks, they are all pompous fluff and rhetoric. (Indeed that is how she has spoken for the whole of her political career.) She doesn't reference any key points as she has basically given the EU everything they demanded. It is an awful deal for both Remainers and Leavers.

 

May is totally out of her depth and should make way for somebody else.

[fullcave]

Welcome to the hotel EU. You can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave. 

[sammieuk1]

Lets see if austerity is over for the poor or the rich when the forth wheel falls off the wagon hopefully on the maggot Gove's head????  

[DoctorG]

May is a traitor. A hard BREXIT will be tough for a while but the UK can emerge stronger with the right leadership. I do not know who that would be but they will probably end up with Corbyn which will not help much.

[brewsterbudgen]

May is a traitor. A hard BREXIT will be tough for a while but the UK can emerge stronger with the right leadership. I do not know who that would be but they will probably end up with Corbyn which will not help much.

David Milliband is trying to put together a more EU friendly coalition. It could work, unless Corbyn can get his act together and commit to a People's vote.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[UnkleGoooose]

I wonder how Britain ruled a third of the planet before the EU existed. Must have just got lucky I guess.

[goldenbrwn1]

1 hour ago, UnkleGoooose said:

I wonder how Britain ruled a third of the planet before the EU existed. Must have just got lucky I guess.

With same people who mostly voted for brexit . Apart from they are no longer wearing their red coats. 

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, UnkleGoooose said:

I wonder how Britain ruled a third of the planet before the EU existed. Must have just got lucky I guess.

Never mind. Just shows that in modern times 450 million EU people have ousted 65 million British people from its shores. 

 

But sure, go it alone and hope that history repeats itself.

[Sydebolle]

Got this clip which wraps up one opinion quite nicely ???? 

[Becker]

2 hours ago, DoctorG said:

May is a traitor. A hard BREXIT will be tough for a while but the UK can emerge stronger with the right leadership.

Yes, it takes strong leadership to make up for the loss of 450 mill. citizens at you doorstep with which to trade. Maybe you'll discover a whole new continent just off your coast with hundreds of millions of people or invent some magical trading ships that can sail thousands of miles to other continents super fast and virtually for free!

Because if none of that happens the UK is f****d. And it's really sad to see that the same type of persons that messed up the US are doing the same thing to the UK.

[melvinmelvin]

4 hours ago, z42 said:

Pure and utter farce. The deal appeases nobody who actually voted i suspect.

A no deal brexit is the likeliest option at this stage. Certainly not ideal by any stretch, yet the EU minus the UK stands to lose a good size of its revenues and political clout too.

At least when it is binned May will be forced to resign. She has made herself appear pathetic and deluded for sj long now

is that necessarily a given, that she has to resign if the deal is voted down?

 

[Nigel Garvie]

19 minutes ago, Becker said:

Yes, it takes strong leadership to make up for the loss of 450 mill. citizens at you doorstep with which to trade. Maybe you'll discover a whole new continent just off your coast with hundreds of millions of people or invent some magical trading ships that can sail thousands of miles to other continents super fast and virtually for free!

Because if none of that happens the UK is f****d. And it's really sad to see that the same type of persons that messed up the US are doing the same thing to the UK.

Unfortunately this is all too true. Just how dim do you have to be, to believe that a magnificent  world of independent trading opportunities awaits us (With unicorns and pots of gold), which is not going to be worse than the ones that the EU - one of the most powerful trading blocks in the world - has already negotiated. We will be relatively small beer in international trading, and the US, and many others will simply pi** on us.

[AGareth2]

13 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

is that necessarily a given, that she has to resign if the deal is voted down?

 

she doesn't have to, but she will have lost credibility 

and will be "obliged"

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, DoctorG said:

May is a traitor. A hard BREXIT will be tough for a while but the UK can emerge stronger with the right leadership. I do not know who that would be but they will probably end up with Corbyn which will not help much.

May is a barely adequate leader like Corbyn. Her job was to achieve an impossible deal with a much larger, better organized partner, represented by highly intelligent and well informed people. When you look at the self serving halfwit dross that makes up the vast majority of Tory  MPs, how could she not fail. The wonder deal that the Brexit leader charlatans and crooks promised the ignorant voters, was never never never remotely achievable. May is poor, second rate, certainly, but hardly a traitor.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, UnkleGoooose said:

I wonder how Britain ruled a third of the planet before the EU existed. Must have just got lucky I guess.

 

The same way America now rules. Economic and military might supported by being the most innovative and inventive at the time.

 

Unfortunately a lot of that economic might is created by oppressing the lower classes at home and exploiting third world developing countries. 

 

The players change but the game goes on.

 

America will be replaced soon. The question isn't if but when and by whom.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

30 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

May is a barely adequate leader like Corbyn. Her job was to achieve an impossible deal with a much larger, better organized partner, represented by highly intelligent and well informed people. When you look at the self serving halfwit dross that makes up the vast majority of Tory  MPs, how could she not fail. The wonder deal that the Brexit leader charlatans and crooks promised the ignorant voters, was never never never remotely achievable. May is poor, second rate, certainly, but hardly a traitor.

 

Barnier, Jucnker, etc - highly intelligent? Your're having a laugh!

 

May was never up to the job, and let her ambitions and advisers get the better of her. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

Corbyn is a dangerous nutter. He cackles on about how he and his cronies would get a "better deal" - <deleted>!. At no time has he revealed what his vision of a better deal looks like or how he would get one. Perhaps he'd make his friend Ms Abbott responsible and she could baffle them with her numbers 555!

 

The sad truth is there is no competent alternative waiting in the wings. 

[Becker]

8 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

May is a barely adequate leader like Corbyn. Her job was to achieve an impossible deal with a much larger, better organized partner, represented by highly intelligent and well informed people. When you look at the self serving halfwit dross that makes up the vast majority of Tory  MPs, how could she not fail. The wonder deal that the Brexit leader charlatans and crooks promised the ignorant voters, was never never never remotely achievable. May is poor, second rate, certainly, but hardly a traitor.

She could never "win" a good Brexit deal because she was dealt a hand that didn't even have a pair of twos and she was playing someone that had, at a minimum, a full house.

[Baerboxer]

44 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

she doesn't have to, but she will have lost credibility 

and will be "obliged"

 

She so thick skinned she'll likely try and shoulder on, even if removed as party leader.

 

What a <deleted> shambles and all created by Cameron and Tory in-fighting.

[Briggsy]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

She so thick skinned she'll likely try and shoulder on, even if removed as party leader.

I fear you are right.

[Krataiboy]

May is the one who will be heading into the unknown. Thankfully.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Krataiboy

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, terryw said:

May will lose the vote in Parliament by 180 votes. There is another option, she should resign on December 12th. Then it is likely that she will have to be dragged screaming from 10 Downing Street.

was watching some UK tv show and the host asked her 3-4 times if she would resign..... no answer. Yesterday at the house same question asked a couple times..... no answer. Why is she so stubborn (just in case the moderator doesn't like the word

stub·born

/ˈstəbərn/

adjective

• 1. having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, especially in spite of good arguments or reasons to do so: "a stubborn refusal to learn from experience" synonyms: obstinate, stubborn as a mule, mulish, headstrong, willful, ... moreantonyms: compliant, docile

[melvinmelvin]

48 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

she doesn't have to, but she will have lost credibility 

and will be "obliged"

thanks, that was also my understanding, good to have it confirmed that I am not sleeping during class

(am mostly interested in formalities re this)

 

now

 

in Norway, when PM/cabinet seeks the national assembly's approval for a proposal

there are essentially two ways of doing that

a) the proposal is put on the agenda, it is debated, the debate may reveal significant opposition,

   no point in voting, PM withdraws the proposal and goes back to the drawing board,

   or it is put to vote, may fly / may not fly - no particular consequence apart from some hurt feelings

b) the proposal is put forward to the national assembly and the PM informs Speaker and national assembly

    that this is a so called CABINET QUESTION, as we call it, 

    meaning, if the proposal does not fly the PM and cabinet will go

    this is a standardized formal process, PM cannot change mind on this

 

does the UK have anything like b)?

(I understand that TM can say; vote yes or we go, but if the process is not formalized

she can change her mind half hour later)

 

 

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, UnkleGoooose said:

I wonder how Britain ruled a third of the planet before the EU existed. Must have just got lucky I guess.

Helped by an utter lack of concern for the innate rights of individuals, a pathological desire for our then leaders to accumulate more and more wealth and power regardless of the cost to others, and a belief that God had willed it so?

[marko kok prong]

Who wrote the article,-Lawmakers ? I thought they were called MP's.

Anyway it's a hopeless fudge that has zero chance of passing the vote,i read today that already 1 trillion pounds in capital has left the Uk, [including the Right Honorable Jacob Rees- Moggs investment fund ]for greener pastures a fair it,but this will seem as nothing with a no deal and that is where this is heading,the EU are sick of it and have clearly stated it's this or no deal,well it won't be this so i suppose off they go into the unknown.

[marko kok prong]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Helped by an utter lack of concern for the innate rights of individuals, a pathological desire for our then leaders to accumulate more and more wealth and power regardless of the cost to others, and a belief that God had willed it so?

Indeed,listen too land of hope and glory "God who made thee mighty make thee mightier yet" and the Royal Navy of course.

[Basil B]

See it did not take that s#!t stirring fat fool from across the pond long to shove his oar in, one thing you can be sure he speaks only for the interests of America The Trump Corp.

[melvinmelvin]

34 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Helped by an utter lack of concern for the innate rights of individuals, a pathological desire for our then leaders to accumulate more and more wealth and power regardless of the cost to others, and a belief that God had willed it so?

yes,

god in left pocket, convinced of being global oppressor suppressor exploiter and extorter by God's will

combined with a global hunger for coal