But rule one for going into negotiations is to know what you want out of those negotiations. Rule two is to know what what you are willing to concede to get what you want.
 
The public vote did not give any indication of how we should leave the EU and what status we should aim for afterwards.
 
We didn't stop to decide this first, therefore the effort that should have gone into negotiating with the EU   all went into negotiations with ourselves.  TM apparently decided that Ending FOM without wrecking the economy  was the goal  and came back with probably the best deal she could with those objectives. 
 
But, it's become perfectly obvious that only a few share this vision of leave. We are now having the discussions about this that we should have had before we invoked art 50 or better still before we had the referendum.  

It wasn't up to the public to decide HOW to leave. The vote was simply TO leave. Rule number one should have been to do exactly that first. Leave the EU post-haste. Tell the EU Britain was making a clean break. None of this falling off a cliff nonsense. Tell the EU that unless they came forward with a more attractive proposition, we wouldn't be giving them billions of pounds, we'd just leave and trade under WTO terms. Leave it up to the EU to decide what they want to offer. If they offer nothing, fine, we save billions of pounds and Brexit gets given the chance to work or fail. Obviously you think it will / would fail, so fine, you get proven correct, brexiteers proven idiots, and we rejoin with the whole matter settled once and for all. The country moves forward.

Rejoining the EU without having left, as you desire, the country will not move forward, I guarantee you that. Ultimately we will I believe leave, as the pressure will just build again, but greater than before because they'll be the sense of injustice piled on top of the sense of hatred for the EU. You'll regret supporting the overturning of democracy, because it will come back to bite you on the backside one way or the other.

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1 hour ago, evadgib said:

 

 

is this another stupid woman in HoC?

how on earth can she confirm anything at all, except her pms

 

bloody hell, UK politicians ain't worth a farthing

 

  Who  cares , i do not  intend to use my  vote  anymore .   

    Those  living in UK , have  chosen  their fate , enjoy .

 

      Another , warm day in LOS, paradise . Merry Xmas , you moaners. 555

Edited December 23, 20187 yr by elliss

12 hours ago, rixalex said:

You are having a laugh if you think deciding to remain would be a negotiation. They would tell us the terms and that would be that. As I say, what will the EU have to fear from us?

If we say, "ah, excuse me Mr EU President, don't mean to be rude but would you mind awfully if we change the odd detail of our membership?", what's he going to say?, "Why's that, are you thinking of leaving?" Cue him rolling around hysterically on the floor.

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I disagree

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I disagree

There is overwhelming evidence that Grouse is infact

this man..       Happy Xmas Brexiters only.

14 hours ago, rixalex said:

You are having a laugh if you think deciding to remain would be a negotiation. They would tell us the terms and that would be that. As I say, what will the EU have to fear from us?

If we say, "ah, excuse me Mr EU President, don't mean to be rude but would you mind awfully if we change the odd detail of our membership?", what's he going to say?, "Why's that, are you thinking of leaving?" Cue him rolling around hysterically on the floor.

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If UK should opt to remain rather than exit,

terms and conditions would be as now, would they not?

 

40 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

If UK should opt to remain rather than exit,

terms and conditions would be as now, would they not?

 

That's what the ECJ said. But I reckon they would change soon whatever.

15 hours ago, rixalex said:

You are having a laugh if you think deciding to remain would be a negotiation. They would tell us the terms and that would be that. As I say, what will the EU have to fear from us?

If we say, "ah, excuse me Mr EU President, don't mean to be rude but would you mind awfully if we change the odd detail of our membership?", what's he going to say?, "Why's that, are you thinking of leaving?" Cue him rolling around hysterically on the floor.

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Oh, because it really turns out that the EU really isn't desperate for the UK's yearly contributions?  

 
If UK should opt to remain rather than exit,
terms and conditions would be as now, would they not?
 

Possibly. Point is that we would be in no position to object to any changes that were made against our wishes, or call for changes we desire, since the EU will know that we have no leverage whatsoever. We would be the EU's bitch.

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I disagree

If that's your best counter-argument, might be better to say nothing at all.

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Oh, because it really turns out that the EU really isn't desperate for the UK's yearly contributions?  

Oh yeah, they are desperate for it, it's just that if remainers get their way, and we end up not leaving, they'll know that our yearly contributions ain't going nowhere.

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These are the EU terms and conditions of remain..

 

 

39 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Possibly. Point is that we would be in no position to object to any changes that were made against our wishes, or call for changes we desire, since the EU will know that we have no leverage whatsoever. We would be the EU's bitch.

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agree with the call for changes we desire bit, unless you get the majority to support you

 

as regards changes against your wishes - some support may be found in the treaties,

I mean support for the UK view

 

Edited December 24, 20187 yr by melvinmelvin
fix

They're not getting away it..

 

On 12/22/2018 at 11:16 AM, My Thai Life said:

The idea that the 92% of British companies who don't do business with the EU should waste time and money complying with EU regulations is clearly farcical. Only someone driven by ideology could fail to see that.

 

You are assuming that we wouldn't have those regulations if we weren't in the EU.  Note that by default existing EU Regulations and responses to EU directives become British law upon exit.

On 12/22/2018 at 4:10 PM, bristolboy said:

And how would not being in the EU have mitigated that problem?

Actually a lot of factories starting "shutting down " in the early 1970's due to the pure greed of UK financial moguls like Jim Slater . Factories were turned into luxury housing using the term "liberating assets ' .Triang toys ,etc

Unfortunately , it was just a stock market hype and most were bankrupt by mid 1970  and had to be bailed out .

Nothing to do with the the EU or Eastern Europe.

4 hours ago, rixalex said:

If that's your best counter-argument, might be better to say nothing at all.

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It's Christmas Eve so I thought this would be appropriate

 

Christmas Day in the Workhouse....

 

 

 

Just might temper red in tooth and claw capitalist leanings a la JRM et al!

Edited December 24, 20187 yr by Grouse

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

They're not getting away it..

 

"ordinary people!" Opines a 69 year old Cambridge professor! Haha!

 

38 out of over 200,000 UK academics make up this little Brexiter group. That's less than 0.02% of academics! You all know what that means don't you? They are statistical outliers! Just the same as climate change sceptics and flat earthers 

Edited December 24, 20187 yr by Grouse

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

"ordinary people!" Opines a 69 year old Cambridge professor! Haha!

 

38 out of over 200,000 UK academics make up this little Brexiter group. That's less than 0.02% of academics! You all know what that means don't you? They are statistical outliers! Just the same as climate change sceptics and flat earthers 

It nonetheless lured you in for a Christmas bite though didn't it ????

Merry Christmas all!

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

"ordinary people!" Opines a 69 year old Cambridge professor! Haha!

 

38 out of over 200,000 UK academics make up this little Brexiter group. That's less than 0.02% of academics! You all know what that means don't you? They are statistical outliers! Just the same as climate change sceptics and flat earthers 

Academics are usually disconnected from reality.

Being educated doesn't mean that one has wisdom.

Here's to a hard Xmas for Grouse...

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Academics are usually disconnected from reality.

What an utter nonsense. I suppose you are not an academic yourself and do not know many of them.....

19 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

What an utter nonsense. I suppose you are not an academic yourself and do not know many of them.....

 

what is an academic?

 

 

22 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

what is an academic?

 

 

Flu an' all that ????

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Flu an' all that ????

 

right, have had the flu, academic then

 

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

what is an academic?

 

 

      One , who  has never done a hard days work in  their  life .

           Probably educated ?  by the taxes paid into the system , by the  working man.

Edited December 24, 20187 yr by elliss

34 minutes ago, elliss said:

      One , who  has never done a hard days work in  their  life .

           Probably educated ?  by the taxes paid into the system , by the  working man.

well.

am not an academic then, have been working hard many days

 

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

what is an academic?

 

 

That's rather academic!

https://www.economist.com/britain/2018/12/22/the-elite-that-failed

 

The Economist is right as usual!

 

Who will disagree with them?