Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[StreetCowboy]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But how can you have a second referendum until the first referendum has been completed?

 

That would mean ignoring the votes, not wishes, of some 17 million people to appease some 15 million people.

 

IMHO there should have been a PM who voted for Brexit and not a Remainer PM like Teresa May.

 

YMMV.

When you make a mistake, you have to make it properly and completely, or it doesn't really count. 

 

We should learn from lemmings, and follow their examples.  Onward, ever onward!

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

When you make a mistake, you have to make it properly and completely, or it doesn't really count. 

 

We should learn from lemmings, and follow their examples.  Onward, ever onward!

baba bobo,

follow the lemmings, over the edge, the lot of us?

nee way

stay put - leave the running to the lemmings

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

When you make a mistake, you have to make it properly and completely, or it doesn't really count. 

 

We should learn from lemmings, and follow their examples.  Onward, ever onward!

The mistake we made was listening to the lies of the 1975 EU referendum so you are correct we have followed it through at corrected the mistake of the 1975 EU referendum  with the 2016 EU referendum

The vote to join Europe in 1975 was based on a lie ... but at last we’re getting our sovereignty back

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/nelson-mccausland/the-vote-to-join-europe-in-1975-was-based-on-a-lie-but-at-last-were-getting-our-sovereignty-back-36219265.html

Nine deceptions in our history with the EU

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/12176234/Nine-deceptions-in-our-history-with-the-EU.html

EU referendum: Did 1975 predictions come true?

But Labour's left, led by Tony Benn (and including a then-unknown Jeremy Corbyn), hated the Common Market, seeing it as a "capitalist club" that would erode British democracy and destroy jobs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36367246

Edited January 6, 2019 by vinny41

[elliss]

On 1/4/2019 at 10:41 AM, My Thai Life said:

Private equity firm Bowmark Capital has just raised its largest ever fund of £600m in a mere 10 weeks to invest in UK mid-market companies. In the word of one of the managing partners:

 

“The success of the fund-raising demonstrates that the UK remains an attractive market for private equity, notwithstanding current Brexit uncertainties."

     WOW , fantastic news  at last ,     sadly  with gbp just about valued @ 40 baht ,

                       i  will not be making any  investments  this decade .

              With the five year forecast , gbp/ thb ,  our beloved sterling is set to fall to 36 thb .omg

                         

       PS , next weeks vote looks set to be cancelled, Our present parliament, need more gifts /gongs.

             in order  to make sure their  current understanding of the dire situation,, is clearer.

                           

                        

Edited January 6, 2019 by elliss

[7by7]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Its not his own money that he is investing in Dublin its clients money, some clients have requested that their funds be placed in an EU investment fund, 

I am sure Dyson Vacuum cleaners are still be sold in Europe and will be sold once the UK has left the EU

 

Selling vacuum cleaners is totally different to investment fund management.

 

If Rees-Mogg actually believes what he says in public then he would be advising his clients not to invest in any EU country.

 

But his company is, in fact, doing the exact opposite: Brexit warning from investment firm co-founded by Rees-Mogg

 

Rees-Mogg earns £14,000 per month for doing just 30 hours work a month for the fund; so obviously, even if he has no money invested himself, he has a large interest in ensuring it's success and he obviously believes that success lies within the EU.

 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

What the ECJ said is "The ECJ has said that if the UK revoked Article 50, it would stay in the EU “under terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a member state”. That means the UK would keep all the opt-outs and the EU budget rebate it has at the moment.

Key word is moment and what the EU Commissioner is refering to is the next EU budget for 2021-2024

Which will have to be agreed unanimously by all member governments.

 

Commissioners do not make decisions nor policy nor law within the EU; the European parliament and the Council of Ministers do.

[7by7]

5 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

agree with that

but dont forget - rebate is not in the treaties

the basis for the rebate is the blessing from the council of ministers, pretty loose

 

True, in a way. And for it to be removed would require the unanimous agreement of that council.

 

As it is not just the UK who receives a rebate, that is never going to happen.

 

Wealthier EU states attack Brussels plan to end rebates

Quote

countries that are net contributors to the budget are likely to fight the commission’s spending ideas, which must be agreed by all EU governments.

 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

Now if you can show me that the ECJ would be against it I may believe you but AFAIK the ECJ does not make any policy decisions in the running of the EU.

Like the Supreme Court in the UK rules on matters of UK law, the ECJ rules on matters of EU law; but neither court actually makes the law.

 

With regard to Article 50 the ECJ has ruled that EU law says the UK can withdraw it and so remain in the EU on exactly the same terms as before. That is a fact.

 

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

The ECJ does NOT make EU policy. The commissioners do that in just the same way that the EU Commissioners don't dispense justice.

You are correct in saying that the ECJ does not make policy.

 

You are incorrect in saying that the Commission does.

 

It is the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers which make policy. The Commission, like the Civil Service in the UK, may advise on that policy, but at the end of the day have to carry out their political masters' wishes.

[7by7]

5 hours ago, nontabury said:

 I’ve also just watched the Andrew Marr show,and would agree with you that T.May is full of waffle, but then what do we expect from a remainers who is trying by all means possible to stop Brexit.

If what you say is true, can you please explain why both serious Brexit contenders for PM, Johnson and Gove, withdrew from the contest leaving it a shoo in for May?

[7by7]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

IMHO there should have been a PM who voted for Brexit and not a Remainer PM like Teresa May.

There could easily have been a pro Brexit PM; but they both withdrew from the contest!

 

I'll ask you the same question I asked nontabury: 

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

can you please explain why both serious Brexit contenders for PM, Johnson and Gove, withdrew from the contest leaving it a shoo in for May?

 

[anon676545345]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

There could easily have been a pro Brexit PM; but they both withdrew from the contest!

 

I'll ask you the same question I asked nontabury: 

 

 

Johnson is a career politician he's not a serious Brexiteer he took the job on the Leave campaign to raise his profile thoroughly expecting remain to win. His contribution to the campaign was a farce, getting stuck on the arial slide, writing that slogan on the bus that remoaners won't shut up about, no matter how many times it's explained to them. I mean he was writing a pro remain article for a newspaper a couple of days prior to announcing himself head of the leave campaign. Now the stupid buffoon is stuck arguing for a cause he doesn't believe in and doesn't really want to happen, there's no way this numpty would want to be the one to take us out of the EU.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/16/secret-boris-johnson-column-favoured-uk-remaining-in-eu

[aright]

44 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Which will have to be agreed unanimously by all member governments.

 

Commissioners do not make decisions nor policy nor law within the EU; the European parliament and the Council of Ministers do.

europarl.europa.eu doesn't agree with you

 

"A Member of the European Parliament, working in one of the parliamentary committees, draws up a report on a proposal for a ‘legislative text’ presented by the European Commission, the only institution empowered to initiate legislation. "

Edited January 6, 2019 by aright

[7by7]

1 minute ago, aright said:

europarl.europa.eu doesn't agree with you

 

"A Member of the European Parliament, working in one of the parliamentary committees, draws up a report on a proposal for a ‘legislative text’ presented by the European Commission, the only institution empowered to initiate legislation. "

 

Initiate legislation, NOT pass it.

 

They can initiate, but only the democratic institutions, the European Parliament or the Council of Ministers, can turn it into law.

 

How EU decisions are made

Quote

The EU’s standard decision-making procedure is known as 'Ordinary Legislative Procedure’ (ex "codecision"). This means that the directly elected European Parliament has to approve EU legislation together with the Council (the governments of the 28 EU countries).

I suggest you, and anyone else who still believes the EU is run by unelected bureaucrats, read all of that page and the associated links.

[7by7]

21 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Johnson is a career politician he's not a serious Brexiteer he took the job on the Leave campaign to raise his profile thoroughly expecting remain to win. His contribution to the campaign was a farce, getting stuck on the arial slide, writing that slogan on the bus that remoaners won't shut up about, no matter how many times it's explained to them. I mean he was writing a pro remain article for a newspaper a couple of days prior to announcing himself head of the leave campaign. Now the stupid buffoon is stuck arguing for a cause he doesn't believe in and doesn't really want to happen, there's no way this numpty would want to be the one to take us out of the EU.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/16/secret-boris-johnson-column-favoured-uk-remaining-in-eu

 I know all that, in fact I have said pretty much the same many times.

 

Except explaining the bus; how do you explain a definite lie? They claimed we paid a net £350 million a week to the EU when we clearly don't and never have.

 

But tell us; why didn't another Brexiteer, Gove for example, stand against May.

 

The answer is simple; for the same reason as Boris. They all knew a Brexit which pleased everyone on the Leave side was impossible, so they wanted someone else to take the blame.

[anon676545345]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I know all that, in fact I have said pretty much the same many times.

 

Except explaining the bus; how do you explain a definite lie? They claimed we paid a net £350 million a week to the EU when we clearly don't and never have.

 

But tell us; why didn't another Brexiteer, Gove for example, stand against May.

 

The answer is simple; for the same reason as Boris. They all knew a Brexit which pleased everyone on the Leave side was impossible, so they wanted someone else to take the blame.

 

Gove did stand for PM but stood down when it was clear he didn't have enough support, and then backed May.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/michael-gove-to-stand-for-conservative-party-leadership

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I know all that, in fact I have said pretty much the same many times.

 

Except explaining the bus; how do you explain a definite lie? They claimed we paid a net £350 million a week to the EU when we clearly don't and never have.

 

But tell us; why didn't another Brexiteer, Gove for example, stand against May.

 

The answer is simple; for the same reason as Boris. They all knew a Brexit which pleased everyone on the Leave side was impossible, so they wanted someone else to take the blame.

The UK gives the EU a gross contribution of £350 million a week. This is not a lie, and it is an amount which could be spent on the NHS if the UK Government so wished. These are usually touted as lies, but this stems from 'Remain' campaigners being unable to tell the difference between the words 'gross' and 'net' as well as the difference between the words 'could' and 'will'.

 

In reality the lies came from the 'Remain' campaign.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/leave-lies-remainers-need_b_12191462.html

[aright]

22 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Initiate legislation, NOT pass it.

 

They can initiate, but only the democratic institutions, the European Parliament or the Council of Ministers, can turn it into law.

 

How EU decisions are made

I suggest you, and anyone else who still believes the EU is run by unelected bureaucrats, read all of that page and the associated links.

I suggest you reread and understand what you said 

"Commissioners do not make decisions nor policy nor law within the EU"

 

Since the Commission are the only body that can make the decision to initiate legislation they are directly responsible for what legislation is considered (policy) and for turning proposed legislation into law. 

 

As for unelected bureaucrats. Can you tell me what part the electorate played in the election of Martin Selmayer?

 

 

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

Selling vacuum cleaners is totally different to investment fund management.

 

If Rees-Mogg actually believes what he says in public then he would be advising his clients not to invest in any EU country.

 

But his company is, in fact, doing the exact opposite: Brexit warning from investment firm co-founded by Rees-Mogg

 

Rees-Mogg earns £14,000 per month for doing just 30 hours work a month for the fund; so obviously, even if he has no money invested himself, he has a large interest in ensuring it's success and he obviously believes that success lies within the EU.

 

somerset management geography equity split as you can clearly see from this picture the majority of the funds are split between the Pacific 24% and emerging markets 63% the proportion(%) of funds for the UK is 5% and Europe is 7%

https://select.bestinvest.co.uk/fund-factsheets/somemdg/mi-somerset-emerging-markets-dividend-growth-a/acc/#overview

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by vinny41
added url

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

But how can you have a second referendum until the first referendum has been completed?

 

Are you suggesting that appeals should be heard after the execution?

 

It is normal practice to correct potential mistakes before damage results, not after. It really comes down to what people consider more important, the will of the people nearly 3 years ago or the will of the people now.

[melvinmelvin]

An interesting Brexit piece in Bangkok Post yesterday.

 

Interview with Irish PM after his hourlong telephone conversation with Merkel.

Although he said that both Merkel and himself share the view that negotiations are finalized,

he uses phrases close to signalling that some fixes might be achieved.

 

He does not see no deal Brexit but suggests prolonging the A50 period if may-deal is voted down.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

In today's Bangkok Post there is also a pot on Brexit.

 

Pointing to a group led by Yvette Cooper which apparently

aims to derail possibilities/actions that could lead to no-deal Brexit.

Currently working on having amendments to the Finance Bill accepted,

the aim of which being to curtail the government's expenditure of money to prepare for no-deal Brexit.

 

[whatsupdoc]

9 hours ago, aright said:

As for unelected bureaucrats. Can you tell me what part the electorate played in the election of Martin Selmayer?

 

 

 

For the umpteenth time: he is a civil servant, not a politician. Do you elect civil servants in the UK?

[7by7]

16 hours ago, Chartist said:

 

Gove did stand for PM but stood down when it was clear he didn't have enough support, and then backed May.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/michael-gove-to-stand-for-conservative-party-leadership

in other words, like Boris he bottled it.

[7by7]

16 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The UK gives the EU a gross contribution of £350 million a week. This is not a lie, and it is an amount which could be spent on the NHS if the UK Government so wished. These are usually touted as lies, but this stems from 'Remain' campaigners being unable to tell the difference between the words 'gross' and 'net' as well as the difference between the words 'could' and 'will'.

 

In reality the lies came from the 'Remain' campaign.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/leave-lies-remainers-need_b_12191462.html

The Leave campaign said that leaving the EU would save the UK £350 million per week.

 

A lie.  As you yourself say, the net contribution the UK pays, and therefore the amount which leaving would actually save us, is a lot less than that.

 

Of course, the UK government could spend as much as it wished on the NHS.

[7by7]

16 hours ago, aright said:

I suggest you reread and understand what you said 

"Commissioners do not make decisions nor policy nor law within the EU"

 

Since the Commission are the only body that can make the decision to initiate legislation they are directly responsible for what legislation is considered (policy) and for turning proposed legislation into law. 

 

As for unelected bureaucrats. Can you tell me what part the electorate played in the election of Martin Selmayer?

 

 

 

Bureaucrats advise and draft; elected politicians actually make the law.

 

Educate yourself by reading the link I provided earlier.

 

7 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

For the umpteenth time: he is a civil servant, not a politician. Do you elect civil servants in the UK?

Exactly; and no, we don't elect civil servants in the UK.

 

 

[7by7]

16 hours ago, vinny41 said:

<snip>somerset management geography equity split as you can clearly see from this picture the majority of the funds are split between the Pacific 24% and emerging markets 63% the proportion(%) of funds for the UK is 5% and Europe is 7%

So they invest more in the EU than the UK!

 

Which adds weight to the opinion that Rees-Mogg seems to believe the EU is a bad place to be associated with; except when he can make money out of it. There are many here in the UK who share that view; both Remainers and Brexiteers.

 

At best this is exceedingly poor PR on his behalf.

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

So they invest more in the EU than the UK!

 

Which adds weight to the opinion that Rees-Mogg seems to believe the EU is a bad place to be associated with; except when he can make money out of it. There are many here in the UK who share that view; both Remainers and Brexiteers.

 

At best this is exceedingly poor PR on his behalf.

yes they invest in Europe by a whole 2% more than the UK but even with a combined Europe and UK total of 12% is very tiny compared to combined Pacific 24% and emerging markets 63% combined total 87%

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

yes they invest in Europe by a whole 2% more than the UK but even with a combined Europe and UK total of 12% is very tiny compared to combined Pacific 24% and emerging markets 63% combined total 87%

Still looks bad for someone who thinks the EU is a bad thing.

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Still looks bad for someone who thinks the EU is a bad thing.

Dont see why if you did a poll of forum members and asked them is the  majority (%)  of their financial portfolio / investments kept inside Thailand or Outside I think we both now what the answer is 

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Bureaucrats advise and draft; elected politicians actually make the law.

 

Educate yourself by reading the link I provided earlier.

 

Exactly; and no, we don't elect civil servants in the UK.

 

 

 

  Well not everybody agrees with you.

please note this is a video produced by the E.u backing BBC.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by nontabury