Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[My Thai Life]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Whatever you think of Blair, at least try and report what he says with a modicum of accuracy!

 

All the reports I can find, say he called for a second referendum only if parliament could not agree on a way forward.

But we know that Blair is the consummate master of spin, lies and deceit. His lies to parliament when he was in power led to more chaos, death and destruction than any other British politician in our lifetimes. And we are still reaping the whirlwind of that deceit.

 

And his corruption extends beyond politics into business "Tony Blair asked government officials to keep lucrative deals a secret" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/08/tony-blair-asked-government-officials-keep-lucrative-deals-secret/

 

Some people may believe Blair's butter-wouldn't-melt pout, but they must have very short memories.

 

Moving on to the logic of his position, it goes like this - "the government screwed up the negotiations and now we are at an impasse, so we must have a second referendum" - not very logical is it?

 

Moreover, there is a clear way out of this mess which does honour the referendum result, namely to revert to the Tusk-Barnier proposal for FTA, but this would require a change of leadership.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

The reality is that according to the UK Office of National Statistics, exports in the last year to non-EU countries were £342 billion while exports to EU countries were £274 billion.

When a new regime kicks in, the statistics have no reality.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

I'm sure the will of the people was expressed a coupla years ago..from memory I'm sure there was some kinda referendum??

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And the people cannot revisit the solicitor and change their will.

 

I forgot, brexiteers want to stop freedom of movement.

[My Thai Life]

33 minutes ago, sandyf said:

When a new regime kicks in, the statistics have no reality.

The statistics I quoted are from the UK Office of National Statistics, which reports that exports in the last year to non-EU countries were £342 billion while exports to EU countries were £274 billion.

 

In the same period, the growth in exports continued to outstrip the growth in imports, almost halving the UK’s trade deficit from £23.4 billion to £15.8 billion. Most exceptionally, since the referendum, exports have increased by £111 billion to £610 billion.

 

This is excellent economic news from our country, it's a shame some people want to downplay such positive news.

 

28 minutes ago, sandyf said:

And the people cannot revisit the solicitor and change their will.

 

I forgot, brexiteers want to stop freedom of movement.

A second referendum is a travesty of democracy. Even May knows that: "New EU referendum would break faith with Britons, May to warn MPs" https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46586673

 

Brexiters want to align freedom of movement into the UK with international norms. As you probably know, the UK was never in schengen anyway.

Edited December 17, 2018 by My Thai Life

[talahtnut]

23 minutes ago, sandyf said:

And the people cannot revisit the solicitor and change their will.

 

I forgot, brexiteers want to stop freedom of movement.

Yeah, freedom of movement is great Sandy, we're all

moving into your place tonight. Thank you for your

generosity.

[grumpy 4680]

     Mark Carney, is a two faced pathetic wimp, who really does not know what the outcome is to be, He's come out on the side of scaremongerers because all the other chickens have changed thier minds over Brexit. 

    The EU crooks deliberatly want to make us pay for leaving, but the cost of staying will end up costing us far more in the long run.

    Britain may suffer, but things will eventually improve, the seeds are already sown for the EU's demise, so its better to get out now.

[grumpy 4680]

    I forgot, brexiteers want to stop freedom of movement.

 

         Rubbish,   Brits just want some control over the numbers, thats not an unreasonable demand, 

[rixalex]

I would be prepared to see "Leave with no deal" as an option on the referendum.

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If there are three choices, that would cut the leave vote into two. Hardly fair.

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[welovesundaysatspace]

48 minutes ago, rixalex said:

If there are three choices, that would cut the leave vote into two. Hardly fair.

So how do you respect the will of the people who only wish to leave with a deal, or those who only wish to leave with no deal?

[rixalex]

Let us be clear: it would be a betrayal of the will of the people to allow the people to express their will.

Yes if you don't enact the will of the people as you promised to do. Enact first, then, if you really feel it's necessary, ask again. Otherwise why enact ANY vote? Which leads to the question, why have a vote in the first place.

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[My Thai Life]

19 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

So how do you respect the will of the people who only wish to leave with a deal, or those who only wish to leave with no deal?

The problem is that under May's "deal" we don't actually leave, and with the backstop as it is, we may never get to leave. It's very substantially worse than the current situation. And this is why it will never get through parliament without major changes.

[dick dasterdly]

On 12/16/2018 at 9:01 AM, RickBradford said:

Have to admit this is very funny, but not for the reasons behind the sentiment!

 

It's funny 'cos hard-core remainers are so brain-washed they genuinely believe this would happen ????!

[dick dasterdly]

On 12/16/2018 at 10:27 AM, baboon said:

I would disagree. The vote was 52 - 48. You can't trample on the wishes of either side, so where do you go from here? You compromise.

Compromise is entirely different from capitulation!

 

Compromise (IMO) is agreeing to pay a reasonable sum of money for a good trade deal - not paying 39bn for the privilege of not leaving, and no trade deal!

[talahtnut]

18 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Compromise is entirely different from capitulation!

 

Compromise (IMO) is agreeing to pay a reasonable sum of money for a good trade deal - not paying 39bn for the privilege of not leaving, and no trade deal!

Not a problem, pay it.

Then send a demand to the EU for 59bn for the privilege

of trading with us, just to cover the trade imbalance.

[dick dasterdly]

47 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

The problem is that under May's "deal" we don't actually leave, and with the backstop as it is, we may never get to leave. It's very substantially worse than the current situation. And this is why it will never get through parliament without major changes.

But the only reason that it will not be approved by MPs, is that they know the electorate realise the truth about May's 'deal'.

 

If they thought the electorate were fooled into believing that it was a genuine compromise (????) - they'd be more than happy to support the appalling 'deal'!  IMO obviously.

[Chomper Higgot]

46 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Compromise is entirely different from capitulation!

 

Compromise (IMO) is agreeing to pay a reasonable sum of money for a good trade deal - not paying 39bn for the privilege of not leaving, and no trade deal!

You assume a trade deal is available for purchase, despite the black and white statements from the EU that no deal is as good as that reserved for EU members.

 

There is also the blindingly obvious problem that if the UK are unable to negotiate a trade deal with the EU, from what Brexiteers have always argued is a position of strength, then what chance of trade deals with the rest of the world when the nation goes cap in hand?

 

Brexit is the crock it was always going to be.

 

 

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Compromise (IMO) is agreeing to pay a reasonable sum of money for a good trade deal - not paying 39bn for the privilege of not leaving, and no trade deal!

Whatever happened to "nothing's agreed until everything's agreed" ????

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by My Thai Life

[dick dasterdly]

19 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You assume a trade deal is available for purchase, despite the black and white statements from the EU that no deal is as good as that reserved for EU members.

 

There is also the blindingly obvious problem that if the UK are unable to negotiate a trade deal with the EU, from what Brexiteers have always argued is a position of strength, then what chance of trade deals with the rest of the world when the nation goes cap in hand?

 

Brexit is the crock it was always going to be.

 

 

"You assume a trade deal is available for purchase, despite the black and white statements from the EU that no deal is as good as that reserved for EU members."

 

In which case there is no reason to pay the eu anything after leaving in March next year!

 

"There is also the blindingly obvious problem that if the UK are unable to negotiate a trade deal with the EU, from what Brexiteers have always argued is a position of strength, then what chance of trade deals with the rest of the world when the nation goes cap in hand?"

 

We all know that the eu is terrified of allowing a reasonable (let alone good!) deal, as it may lead to other eu countries taking the same route.....  Other non-eu countries don't have the same fear agenda.....

 

Which is why it's blindingly obvious that the uk needs to say 'NO! - We're not accepting this leave in name only deal, and are actually going to LEAVE'!  Only then will the eu start negotiating sensibly.

 

But of course, uk MPs have no intention of leaving the eu and so will never countenance this ☹️.

Edited December 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, My Thai Life said:

Whatever happened to "nothing's agreed until everything's agreed" ????

 

Exactly.  Everything May said at the beginning has proven to be nothing but lies ☹️.

[dick dasterdly]

The other classic was "no deal is better than a bad deal".......

 

Edit - And even MPs realise that the electorate know that this is the worst possible of 'deals'......

 

Edit - Sorry, I'm a bit 'vocal' at the moment after my 'holiday'.

Edited December 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[My Thai Life]

25 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Edit - Sorry, I'm a bit 'vocal' at the moment after my 'holiday'.

About time I took a break too. This forum is eating up far too much productive time!

Edited December 17, 2018 by My Thai Life

[dick dasterdly]

16 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

About time I took a break too. This forum is eating up far too much productive time!

Know what you mean.

 

My enforced 'holiday' resulted in my reading books again!  Not entirely 'great' as reading books nowadays (as a result of my failing eyesight....) tends to give me a headache and falling asleep.....

 

Even so, it was nice to start reading proper books again ☺️.

[dick dasterdly]

Incidentally, am I wrong in thinking that only brexiteers are given 'holidays'?

 

Genuine question, that may (of course....) result in my ban from the forum ☹️.

Edited December 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[melvinmelvin]

25 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Incidentally, am I wrong in thinking that only brexiteers are given 'holidays'?

 

Genuine question, that may (of course....) result in my ban from the forum ☹️.

my guess,

yes, you are wrong

 

[dick dasterdly]

27 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

my guess,

yes, you are wrong

 

Fair enough, but I'm waiting for a remainer to say that they have been given a 'holiday'.

[melvinmelvin]

50 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Fair enough, but I'm waiting for a remainer to say that they have been given a 'holiday'.

Grouse might help you out . . . .

 

[melvinmelvin]

52 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Fair enough, but I'm waiting for a remainer to say that they have been given a 'holiday'.

 

and to add a comment re referendum being binding or not

 

there are so many Brexit threads - cant spend the evening looking for your comments re this,

so I use this thread

 

To offer some fairness to Grouse; as far as I remember he opined along the lines of;

 

Cameron committed himself as PM and committed his party to implement whatever

however, parliament is sovereign

parliament never committed to this or that - hence - advisory

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"You assume a trade deal is available for purchase, despite the black and white statements from the EU that no deal is as good as that reserved for EU members."

 

In which case there is no reason to pay the eu anything after leaving in March next year!

 

"There is also the blindingly obvious problem that if the UK are unable to negotiate a trade deal with the EU, from what Brexiteers have always argued is a position of strength, then what chance of trade deals with the rest of the world when the nation goes cap in hand?"

 

We all know that the eu is terrified of allowing a reasonable (let alone good!) deal, as it may lead to other eu countries taking the same route.....  Other non-eu countries don't have the same fear agenda.....

 

Which is why it's blindingly obvious that the uk needs to say 'NO! - We're not accepting this leave in name only deal, and are actually going to LEAVE'!  Only then will the eu start negotiating sensibly.

 

But of course, uk MPs have no intention of leaving the eu and so will never countenance this ☹️.

I agree, there is no reason for the EU to offer the UK a good deal and many reasons why the EU should (from the EU’s perspective) not, but I’ at a loss over this non-EU nation ‘fear agenda’.

 

The UK divested of it’s membership privileged EU market access will be in an extremely weak position when seeking markets to replace those lost with the EU.

 

The US, China, India and others are not going to miss an opportunity to press hard bargains on a UK That has put itself in a weak bargaining position.

 

Prepare for the UK to be shafted.

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I agree, there is no reason for the EU to offer the UK a good deal and many reasons why the EU should (from the EU’s perspective) not, but I’ at a loss over this non-EU nation ‘fear agenda’.

 

The UK divested of it’s membership privileged EU market access will be in an extremely weak position when seeking markets to replace those lost with the EU.

 

The US, China, India and others are not going to miss an opportunity to press hard bargains on a UK That has put itself in a weak bargaining position.

 

Prepare for the UK to be shafted.

There's also the fact that WTO rules, contrary to Brexiters expectation, don't kick in the moment the UK leaves the EU. Reentry into the WTO has to be negotiated. And other members can delay the process. I've read that it could take a couple of years. I've yet to see a Brexiter in this forum acknowledge this.

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

There's also the fact that WTO rules, contrary to Brexiters expectation, don't kick in the moment the UK leaves the EU. Reentry into the WTO has to be negotiated. And other members can delay the process. I've read that it could take a couple of years. I've yet to see a Brexiter in this forum acknowledge this.

It’ll be the ‘second easiest deal in human history’!