Thai Music

[richard10365]

I'm sitting at home watching a Thai TV channel. Someone is singing and they are very badly off key. This is not the first time I have seen Thai (supposedly famous) sing on TV. More often than not, they sing off key. How is it they sound so good on the radio and during a live broadcast they sound like first round American Idol rejects?

[tijnebijn]

I'm sitting at home watching a Thai TV channel. Someone is singing and they are very badly off key. This is not the first time I have seen Thai (supposedly famous) sing on TV. More often than not, they sing off key. How is it they sound so good on the radio and during a live broadcast they sound like first round American Idol rejects?

Maybe the whisky

[richard10365]

Lip singing would be better.

[Upcountry]

Thai music, especially folk music, sometimes does seem "off-key" to western ears.

[grtaylor]

Traditional Thai music uses a scale which is different to the usual tempered diatonic western scale. Therefore, it will always sound "out of tune" to a westerner.

However, what gets me is how they can sing so out of tune when singing western music to a western scale. I guess its because they are so used to their "in tune" (to them) Thai scale.

G

[weary]

I'm sitting at home watching a Thai TV channel. Someone is singing and they are very badly off key. This is not the first time I have seen Thai (supposedly famous) sing on TV. More often than not, they sing off key. How is it they sound so good on the radio and during a live broadcast they sound like first round American Idol rejects?

Auto tuners go a long way.

[richard10365]

I think my ear has been in Thailand long enough to know when they are singing off key. It sounds like some people are so use to hearing them out of tune that it sounds normal.

[Mobi]

There is an increasing tendency for 'celebrities' - usually actors - to sing on Thai TV programmes. Some of them are not too bad, but most have problems singing in key. They are simply not professional singers, but the TV producers keep getting them to come on and sing, and unfortunately the Thai audiences for the most part love it. They don't care that they are singing out of tune - they just like to see their favourite celebs singing.

A bit like the English TV programme - 'Celebrity stars in your eyes'

It's a pity, because once you have been here a few years and become attuned, many Thai songs are worth listening to, but as the OP says they are so often sung badly on TV.

[qwertz]

There is an increasing tendency for 'celebrities' - usually actors - to sing on Thai TV programmes. Some of them are not too bad, but most have problems singing in key. They are simply not professional singers, but the TV producers keep getting them to come on and sing, and unfortunately the Thai audiences for the most part love it. They don't care that they are singing out of tune - they just like to see their favourite celebs singing.

A bit like the English TV programme - 'Celebrity stars in your eyes'

It's a pity, because once you have been here a few years and become attuned, many Thai songs are worth listening to, but as the OP says they are so often sung badly on TV.

Thai pop music hurts my ears, then again, a lot of western pop does too. I think it has to do with the unnecessary volume they use.

[kmart]

I can't listen to Thai music at all. Even when its professionally performed it sounds like scraping nails down a blackboard to me. That music during the Thai Boxing is worst. Its all discordant percussion, and sounds like groups of kids throwing stones at your greenhouse.

Talent doesn't seem to be important here, though.

[jbowman1993]

I can't listen to Thai music at all. Even when its professionally performed it sounds like scraping nails down a blackboard to me. That music during the Thai Boxing is worst. Its all discordant percussion, and sounds like groups of kids throwing stones at your greenhouse.

Talent doesn't seem to be important here, though.

Traditional Thai music is based on the pentatonic scale (a five note scale). The use of major and minor tunings, that you have been brought up listening too, are irrelevant to Thai traditional music. So, people singing in this style, would of course sound "out of tune" to those of you raised in the western major/minor tradition. Isn't it wonderful that everything in the world doesn't follow the western preconceptions of what is correct or not?

Most trained in Thai traditional instruments are extremely skilled, and extremely knowledgable. It is admirable that they are performing these instruments, instead of succumbing to the western "commercialization" of music (henceforth referred to as the death of music, lol, sorry, now I"M stereotyping!). If you have an interest in Thai traditional music or instruments, come on out to my school (College of Music, Mahidol University, Salaya, Nakhonpathom), and I'd be happy to give you a tour of our Thai traditional department, and have some students and teachers discuss the rich heritage these instruments and performers represent. We will have a museum built at my College dedicated to the heritage of music in SE Asia, and that should be completed in the next 2 years.

For those of you that aren't aware, Live musical performance is dying a slow death, brought about by the giant "pop song a minute" media conglomerates. Live performances are seeing steady declines in their attendence, and it won't be so long before the current generation of youth will have to go so a museum to learn about live performances. The advent of the latest techology that is marketed as providing us with convenience, is in fact, isolating us from each other, and keeping us in our homes, where we don't have to interact, or socialize with anyone. If you want live music to be available for your children, if you think it is important to culture and society, than you need to go and support it.

And regarding the quote above - this is a nice representation of why culture is dying away. If it is not familiar and comfortable, then it has to be labeled in a negative way, to make us feel better with our own cultural shortcomings. It is possible to appreciate the historical and cultural significance of something, without entering into a like/dislike discussion that is simply ignorant stereotyping (fingernails on a blackboard). I dislike Wagnerian Opera, but I appreciate its cultural relevance to the western classical music tradition.

Edited February 19, 2007 by jbowman1993

[chownah]

I don't think that live music is threatened in Thailand. Most weddings and house warming parties have live music if those throwing the affair have the resources.....its just that certain kinds of music are not popularly supported when performed live.

A side note: There are almost assuredly more people appreciating classical music today than there were at the time of its composing.

Edited February 19, 2007 by chownah

[luckyluke]

I can't listen to Thai music at all. Even when its professionally performed it sounds like scraping nails down a blackboard to me. That music during the Thai Boxing is worst. Its all discordant percussion, and sounds like groups of kids throwing stones at your greenhouse.

Talent doesn't seem to be important here, though.

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Gustibus et coloram non est disputandum.

[Tony Clifton]

I'm sitting at home watching a Thai TV channel. Someone is singing and they are very badly off key. This is not the first time I have seen Thai (supposedly famous) sing on TV. More often than not, they sing off key. How is it they sound so good on the radio and during a live broadcast they sound like first round American Idol rejects?

Simple. They can't sing. A studio vocal recording may be made of dozens of different recordings, snippets from different recordings are then attached together in order to get a one good constant vocal track. This means the singer sings the same song over and over and over until they have all parts of the song covered on key. There are also digital tools that can adjust vocal recordings by readjusting the pitch, cheating. With the advent of easy and cheap home recording on a pc, hundreds of "artists" have suddenly appeared while only a few can handle a live performance. Thailand has hundreds of those, one album, one hit, only to never be heard from again. Disposable artists are cheap here. So are the hit songs, it's not uncommon to hear an artist pick-up a song that was a hit with an other artist weeks ago. That's probably Grammy trying to cash in while it's hot.

Real singers, Shirley Bassey for example, class, will walk in the studio and usually record a song in one take. One example is the song Rhythm Divine. She walked in the studio, invited as a guest for an album on which she'd sing one track, the Yello guys were late, she recorded one track, no rehearsal but on her own with an audio track,they walked in and said "Let's start". The studio engineer had them listen to the one and only recorded track first, flawless! It's the raw track that you can hear if you download the song.

One other thing could be that they can't properly hear themselves through the stage monitors, still, a good singer doesn't need monitors to get the right pitch.

Anyone ever noticed how karaoke parties all sound the same, way off key, stretching them vocal cords? Wherever you hear one outside, it always sounds like it's the same bunch of people singing all over the place, every time.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[toptuan]

Gustibus et coloram non est disputandum.

Ah, ah, ah! Violation of forum rules---ESPECIALLY if it's a DEAD language!

Dirge of a Student of Latin...

Latin is a dead tongue,

This is plain to see,

It killed off all the Romans,

And now it's killing me.

[Mobi]

Gustibus et coloram non est disputandum.

Ah, ah, ah! Violation of forum rules---ESPECIALLY if it's a DEAD language!

Dirge of a Student of Latin...

Latin is a dead tongue,

This is plain to see,

It killed off all the Romans,

And now it's killing me.

Not long ago I received a final warning from an over zealous Mod for correcting someone's Latin!

It's true - I couldn't make it up

[kmart]

I can't listen to Thai music at all. Even when its professionally performed it sounds like scraping nails down a blackboard to me. That music during the Thai Boxing is worst. Its all discordant percussion, and sounds like groups of kids throwing stones at your greenhouse.

Talent doesn't seem to be important here, though.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Gustibus et coloram non est disputandum.

That a latin flame, sweetheart?

Don't get yerself banned whatever you do.....

Think what a loss that would be...?

Edited February 19, 2007 by kmart

[Mobi]

At the very least this thread is in imminent danger of being closed....

....Which would be a pity as it could develop into an interesting topic on Thai music.

So back on topic...

There are some very good Thai singers, who have good voices and can certainly sing in tune. There are some particularly good singers who sing Luk Thung or Issan music, for which I have a soft spot for.

There are also a lot of mediocre singers who can barely sing in tune and don't have very good voices. They are helped by studio electronics, but when they sing live, they really struggle.

Then, as I preveiously posted, you have the 'celebs' who fancy themselves as singers (cashing in on their existing fame), many of whom sing atrociously.

IMO, most of the Thai 'pop' singers are very ordinary, and many annoy me by trying to sing out of their limited ranges, resulting in slightly off key shouting.

Most Thai pop songs are generics of western pop music and you can hear many 'soundbites'; in both the melodies and arrangements, that have their origins in western hits.

Some - maybe 5-10% of Thai pop music is good and original.

Probably not so very different from any other country's pop music.

But Thai classical and various types of Thai 'country' music is original, and usually very good.

What does anyone else think?

Edited February 19, 2007 by Mobi D'Ark

[jbowman1993]

I don't think that live music is threatened in Thailand. Most weddings and house warming parties have live music if those throwing the affair have the resources.....its just that certain kinds of music are not popularly supported when performed live.

A side note: There are almost assuredly more people appreciating classical music today than there were at the time of its composing.

That all depends on your definition of the word classical

1) Classical as in, "its a classic". Usually defined as having been around for more than 50 years, and is still popular and relevant. The Beatles are classic, using this definition. Will Tata's music be around in 50 years? Only time will tell.

2) The Classical Period, commonly considered to be from 1750-1820. Featured the three giants, Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven.

3) and finally "Classical Music", refering to any kind of western art music over the past millenium.

Perhaps there are more people appreciating classical music, since the world's population is significantly larger than in 1750. However, the number of public concerts, and the attendence at those concerts has dropped markedly, especially over the past 50 years. Classical music (See #3) in public performance will not survive unless a new generation of concert goers are trained.

Also, Karaoke and DJ's are not considered to be live music, in the live performance sense, lol.

[Amihan]

Thailand's best singer??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j4iHWL-jLA...ted&search=

Sounds like a Britney Spears wannabe

[fxm88]

Auto tuners go a long way.

Auto-tune can be used in live performances. But maybe these Thai producers are just too cheap?

http://www.temple.edu/ispr/examples/ex03_08_25.html

[Amihan]

speaking of singing how would any of u rate her

No she is not thai....16 year old girl

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SD1S21V0

Edited February 19, 2007 by Amihan

[soundman]

I can't listen to Thai music at all. Even when its professionally performed it sounds like scraping nails down a blackboard to me. That music during the Thai Boxing is worst. Its all discordant percussion, and sounds like groups of kids throwing stones at your greenhouse.

Talent doesn't seem to be important here, though.

You try playing a watchamecallit .... hmmm ... that thing with three strings made of cats gut & horse hair.

Anyway, it seems pretty important to the muay thai guys.

Soundman.

[lingling]

There is an increasing tendency for 'celebrities' - usually actors - to sing on Thai TV programmes. Some of them are not too bad, but most have problems singing in key. They are simply not professional singers, but the TV producers keep getting them to come on and sing, and unfortunately the Thai audiences for the most part love it. They don't care that they are singing out of tune - they just like to see their favourite celebs singing.

A bit like the English TV programme - 'Celebrity stars in your eyes'

It's a pity, because once you have been here a few years and become attuned, many Thai songs are worth listening to, but as the OP says they are so often sung badly on TV.

I think Thais are stuck in an "evil loop" where they grow up listening to music performed by people with no sense for tunes. After enough exposure to out-of-tune and out-of-rhythm music anything and everything sounds good in their ears. Thai music can be performed in tune if the performer has a trace of "music sense" left.

Here's an example of a farang girl singing a couple of thai songs in tune. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ViviMalee

[kmart]

I can't listen to Thai music at all. Even when its professionally performed it sounds like scraping nails down a blackboard to me. That music during the Thai Boxing is worst. Its all discordant percussion, and sounds like groups of kids throwing stones at your greenhouse.

Talent doesn't seem to be important here, though.

You try playing a watchamecallit .... hmmm ... that thing with three strings made of cats gut & horse hair.

Anyway, it seems pretty important to the muay thai guys.

Soundman.

Sounds like the horse and cat aren't dead yet.

Listen to that for three minutes and you're ready to fight Tyson already.

[soundman]

I can't listen to Thai music at all. Even when its professionally performed it sounds like scraping nails down a blackboard to me. That music during the Thai Boxing is worst. Its all discordant percussion, and sounds like groups of kids throwing stones at your greenhouse.

Talent doesn't seem to be important here, though.

You try playing a watchamecallit .... hmmm ... that thing with three strings made of cats gut & horse hair.

Anyway, it seems pretty important to the muay thai guys.

Soundman.

Sounds like the horse and cat aren't dead yet.

Listen to that for three minutes and you're ready to fight Tyson already.

I have to admit, with the example of the Thai boxing music, & that thai / chinese hybrid of a japanese samasan, it can be a pretty annoying sound, rather like ...

the crying cat!!!

Makes me cringe. Only thing worse is when it is played over a 500B PA system thats running 50B speakers distorted to the max.

Soundman.

[Tony Clifton]

There are some very good Thai singers, who have good voices and can certainly sing in tune. There are some particularly good singers who sing Luk Thung or Issan music, for which I have a soft spot for.

There are also a lot of mediocre singers who can barely sing in tune and don't have very good voices. They are helped by studio electronics, but when they sing live, they really struggle.

Then, as I preveiously posted, you have the 'celebs' who fancy themselves as singers (cashing in on their existing fame), many of whom sing atrociously.

IMO, most of the Thai 'pop' singers are very ordinary, and many annoy me by trying to sing out of their limited ranges, resulting in slightly off key shouting.

Most Thai pop songs are generics of western pop music and you can hear many 'soundbites'; in both the melodies and arrangements, that have their origins in western hits.

Some - maybe 5-10% of Thai pop music is good and original.

Probably not so very different from any other country's pop music.

But Thai classical and various types of Thai 'country' music is original, and usually very good.

What does anyone else think?

Totally agree with you. I love Luk Thung and Morlam, music that;s original to the area. The pop music here is simply awful, as you say, a very low percentage is worth listening, western influence rehashed.. I used to tune in to Metropolis 107, the old formula, when driving but will only listen to Luk Thung or Morlam on the radio now that Fm 107 sounds like a Detroit suburb radio station. As a musician, I'm always attracted by the music first, then the singing, but I often find myself listening to the singing first here because it's just awful.

[jackr]

I can't listen to Thai music at all. Even when its professionally performed it sounds like scraping nails down a blackboard to me. That music during the Thai Boxing is worst. Its all discordant percussion, and sounds like groups of kids throwing stones at your greenhouse.

Talent doesn't seem to be important here, though.

Isn't it wonderful that everything in the world doesn't follow the western preconceptions of what is correct or not?

So what you're saying is, in fact, they can't sing?

[richard10365]

Maybe successful live performances depend on the amount of alcohol consumed prior to the performance.

[kmart]

I can't listen to Thai music at all. Even when its professionally performed it sounds like scraping nails down a blackboard to me. That music during the Thai Boxing is worst. Its all discordant percussion, and sounds like groups of kids throwing stones at your greenhouse.

Talent doesn't seem to be important here, though.

Isn't it wonderful that everything in the world doesn't follow the western preconceptions of what is correct or not?

So what you're saying is, in fact, they can't sing?

Some Thai singers have wonderful voices. They should be heard more often. Other than that, Thai tv stations seem to give too much time to talentless, spoiled kids and other relations of the rich and well-connected. Same as any other industry here.