BARF dog raw meat feeding, what kind of meat do you buy at MAKRO ?

[pehice]

hello,

 

do you feed your dog BARF ? Bones And Raw Food

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_feeding#BARF

 

can you tell me what kind of meat you buy at Makro and how much it costs ?

I dont think that they need chicken breast at 80thb/kg ?

 

and do you mix with vegetables ? no rice ?

 

Thanks.

 

[grollies]

We feed our four dogs cracked (second-hand?) rice, one tin of dog food between them mixed with dog biscuits and any leftover kitchen meat/bone scraps. I occasionally mix a small tin of sardine in tomato sauce into the rice.

 

They get pork bones from Makro occasionally.

 

Every morning, dog biscuits and they get a daily treat stick a couple of hours after dinner.

 

That, plus whatever they can bum off the neighbours.

[Con Queso]

My in-laws give the dogs whatever's left over after the food has sat on the dinner table three days in the heat.  No surprise the dogs sometimes puke it back up.  I feel bad for them, and will give them a can of wet food mixed with dry, which they devour.  When I cook, if I have any inedible scraps such as bones, skin, fat, cartilage, etc, I add that to their bowls too.  I never add rice simply because I rarely make rice for myself when I cook.  I don't think there is anything wrong with adding a modest amount of rice since that's what dry dog foods are often made from anyway.  

[neeray]

My dog has been on a raw chicken diet since a couple months old. Up until a few years ago, I purchased specialty ground chicken from pet food suppliers that specialize in raw pet food. Many supposedly healthy ingredients are added.

But it is an expensive diet for a high energy, big eater like mine is. I switched to buying ground chicken or turkey from the supermarket, I think it is actually intended as sausage meat. I augment that with cooked carrots and greens like brussels sprouts and I mix in a bit of canned dog food. Rice is okay too. I also share my salmon and tuna with her when I have it. She has no complaints. Major sized bones are great for dental health.

At 13, she still acts like a crazy pup full of piss and vinegar. She has never had an ailment. I attribute her good health to her raw food diet.

She is also a professional beggar and begs for my table food (I usually give in) and she scrounges whatever discarded crap she can find on our leash walks (until I catch on and stop her).

Note 1) I believe I recall reading that it is not wise to switch your pet from conventional dog food to a raw diet mid stream. Their system 'may' not have the immunity to it.

Note 2) Due to some travelling, twice I had to feed her canned or dry food. Both times, she developed a seemingly insatiable body itch. As soon as I put her back on the raw diet, the itch went away.

[Con Queso]

Just to follow-up on my post: I went out side and the dog's dinner from last night is still there, mostly untouched.  Yuck.

 

[dick dasterdly]

Australian lamb leg and the cheapest Aussie beef (which I get Makro to slice up for me).

 

I also buy ordinary chicken feet (as there is no alternative) and give them ordinary chicken wings twice a week - as again, there is no alternative.

 

But that is their evening meal.  In the morning I give them Norwegian Mackerel mixed with a few dog biscuit/the 'turmeric mix'/cooked and shredded brussel sprouts and spinach/ a fish oil capsule for each/with whole raw eggs crushed, and mixed in the above.

Edited December 2, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[neeray]

32 minutes ago, Arjen said:

I am also very interested in this subject. And my internet is bad (Dial-up connection) 

 

I want to feed all our dogs raw, and not the dry dog food anymore. It turns out now that only on dog is more or less on raw. We mix it with cooked rice for now. (only four days now) he is doing well on this. Do I understand correct that cooked rice is not healthy for dogs?

 

Arjen.

 

 

My understanding from previous research is that "white" rice is perfectly okay for dogs.

[kekalot]

it's only "perfectly okay for dogs" if you want them to be sick

dogs need meat. never saw dogs raid a rice field

 

if you care about your dogs health you will either feed them raw meat, organs and bones

or

you will get them meat/fish based grain free food (that is right, NO rice). vegetables and fruits is fine. (Taste of the Wild, Orijen, etc) will cost you 2900 baht or so for 13kg bags, good for around 3 months each (on my 30kg BT)

 

proof in point is the Pit Bull that lives downstairs for me, about 4-5 years old by now.

my 9 years old Bull Terrier always had grain free food and raw meaty bones his whole life and never had a single health issue

vs

her dog that is half his age and is fat, loses hair, has 10 different health issues and looks like cancer on legs. getting fed rice and table scraps and cheapest dry food around

 

trust me she pays more in veterinarian visits than I pay for food

Edited December 2, 2018 by kekalot

[wildewillie89]

14 hours ago, Arjen said:

We mix it with cooked rice for now. (only four days now) he is doing well on this. Do I understand correct that cooked rice is not healthy for dogs?

Cooked rice is no problems for dogs. Brown rice is slightly better than white but dogs can eat either. I think the higher quality processed dog foods use brown and the cheaper low quality companies use white as it is cheaper. 

You will get the odd dog allergic to rice, but if the dogs are doing fine on it then obviously they aren't.

2 - 3 times a week is better (not making up anymore than 10% of their meal). 

I will give my dogs rice mixed in with vegetables and meat (dinner scraps) a couple times a week. Our house only eats brown rice (as diabetes is in the Thai family). so works out well. 

[wildewillie89]

21 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

In the morning I give them Norwegian Mackerel mixed with a few dog biscuit/the 'turmeric mix'/cooked and shredded brussel sprouts and spinach/ a fish oil capsule for each/with whole raw eggs crushed, and mixed in the above.

Check with the vet whether you need the fish oil capsule or not if feeding the fish. Too much fish oil can lead to inflammation. 

[dick dasterdly]

47 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Check with the vet whether you need the fish oil capsule or not if feeding the fish. Too much fish oil can lead to inflammation. 

OK, thanks.

 

One of my dogs has a presumed allergy problem of some sort (she keeps scratching and going bald), and the only thing that worked previously was Apoquel.  I've noticed that feeding her mackerel works almost as well as the tablets!  She rarely needs a tablet nowadays ????.

 

Edit - And when she does need a tablet, it's because I was feeling queasy (therefore not up to the revolting task of chopping up the fish...) and so she missed out on that part of her diet for a couple of days.

Edited December 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[kekalot]

3 hours ago, Arjen said:

I believe direct your dog is healthy, I do believe the dog downstairs is less healthy, I do believe your dog is on RAW diet, and does not eat rice, and I do believe that the dog downstairs is on an other diet.

 

But to say that your way of feeding is "proof in point" is same as saying, "smoking is healthy, because my grandfather started smoking at an age from 8 years, and he died when he was 110 because of a car accident"

 

We have 16 dogs, they are all on the standard dry food, and one has now health problems, probably caused by food, and some other external factors.

 

Arjen.

 

most soi dogs eat the cheapest dry kibble + rice with meat scraps and other various trash

I wouldn't call any of them "healthy" -except the ones that just recently got dumped.

 

If you have 16 dogs then giving them expensive grain free food would cost you 15,000+ baht per month. it's not a great option (unless you can afford it)

raw meat, organs and bones, well it would depend on if you have a butcher and discounts but it could be much cheaper. (I'd go with that if I could easily.)

mine, Taste of the Wild comes up to about 223 baht per KG, 13kg results in ±3 months for one 30kg dog. 1 cup per meal and 2 meals a day plus bones once in a while (or a pigs heart!) (I don't feed the RAW diet btw)

 

anyways, here: : http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/index.php/cat/1

 

Royal Canin which is pushed by veterinarians is a 1 star food too btw: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1501&cat=7

 

ingredients in dog food are listed by order of what is used most.

here's the ingredients and then the review for Alpo which is practically the cheapest stuff ever, I assume the Thai cheap kibbles is at best similar but I assume it to be worse

 

Ingredients:  Ground Yellow Corn, Digest of Chicken By-Products, Poultry By-Product Meal, Animal Fat(stabilized with BHA), Lamb Meal, Brewer's Rice, Ground Barley, Soybean Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Whole Chicory Root, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E, A, B12 & D3 Supplements, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamin Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin.

 

review:

 

Review Date: Mon March 6, 2006 Would you recommend the product? No | Price you paid?: Not Indicated | Rating: 0    Pros:   Cons: Inadequate meat content, by-products, use of low quality grains, fat of unidentifiable origin, carcinogenic preservative.

This food receives a 1 star rating simply because there is nothing lower. The primary ingredient in the food is corn (it should be meat!). Corn is a problematic grain that is difficult for dogs to digest and thought to be the cause of a great many allergy and yeast infection problems. We prefer not to see this used in dog food.   The next ingredient is by-products. It is impossible to ascertain the quality of by-products and these are usually products that are of such low quality as to be rejected for use in the human food chain, or else are those parts that have so little value that they cannot be used elsewhere in either the human or pet food industries. The AAFCO definition of chicken by-product meal is “a meal consisting of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.” Digest is material from poultry by-products which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed tissue. The next ingredient if further by-products, this time poultry (unidentifiable source). The AAFCO definition of poultry by-product meal is “a meal consisting of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.” Animal fat is a further low quality ingredient and is impossible to determine the source. Unidentified ingredients are usually very low quality. AAFCO define this as "obtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial processes of rendering or extracting. It consists predominantly of glyceride esters of fatty acids and contains no additions of free fatty acids. If an antioxidant is used, the common name or names must be indicated, followed by the words "used as a preservative". This food uses chemical preservatives (BHA) which is believed to be carcinogenic, and is banned from use in human food. Lamb meal is the sole named meat ingredient in the food. At 5th on the ingredient list, this is insufficient to make any appreciable impact on the food. Brewers rice is a waste product – a spent grain that is a by-product of the alcohol industry. The AAFCO definition is “the dried extracted residue of rice resulting from the manufacture of wort (liquid portion of malted grain) or beer and may contain pulverized dried spent hops in an amount not to exceed 3 percent.” Soybean meal is a poor quality source of protein in dog food, and a common cause of allergy problems. Some believe that it is the number 1 cause of food allergies in dogs (outstripping even wheat). Corn appears a second time as corn gluten meal. The AAFCO definition of corn gluten meal is “the dried residue from corn after the removal of the larger part of the starch and germ, and the separation of the bran by the process employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup, or by enzymatic treatment of the endosperm”. In plain English, that which remains after all the nutritious bits have been removed.

Edited December 3, 2018 by kekalot

[dick dasterdly]

 

I believe direct your dog is healthy, I do believe the dog downstairs is less healthy, I do believe your dog is on RAW diet, and does not eat rice, and I do believe that the dog downstairs is on an other diet.

 

But to say that your way of feeding is "proof in point" is same as saying, "smoking is healthy, because my grandfather started smoking at an age from 8 years, and he died when he was 110 because of a car accident"

 

We have 16 dogs, they are all on the standard dry food, and one has now health problems, probably caused by food, and some other external factors.

 

Arjen.

It probably depends on whether one has been through a traumatic experience with a dog/dogs - and so very concerned about whether their (mostly kibble) diet contributed to their demise. ☹️

 

Personally, I'm doing everything I possibly can to ensure that my remaining 2 dogs enjoy the best life possible - and they love the new raw meat diet!

 

Yes, it costs me a small fortune - but with a bit of luck I won't go through the same 'was it my fault?' thoughts in the future....

Edited December 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[neeray]

 

It probably depends on whether one has been through a traumatic experience with a dog/dogs - and so very concerned about whether their (mostly kibble) diet contributed to their demise. ☹️

 

Personally, I'm doing everything I possibly can to ensure that my remaining 2 dogs enjoy the best life possible - and they love the new raw meat diet!

 

Yes, it costs me a small fortune - but with a bit of luck I won't go through the same 'was it my fault?' thoughts in the future....

Did you see my earlier post about my dog's 13 year life span (and still ticking well) of raw food diet? I attribute her good health to the diet.

[wildewillie89]

 

It probably depends on whether one has been through a traumatic experience with a dog/dogs - and so very concerned about whether their (mostly kibble) diet contributed to their demise. ☹️

 

Personally, I'm doing everything I possibly can to ensure that my remaining 2 dogs enjoy the best life possible - and they love the new raw meat diet!

  

Yes, it costs me a small fortune - but with a bit of luck I won't go through the same 'was it my fault?' thoughts in the future....

A good point, especially for large to giant dog owners. After losing probably the smartest dog I will ever own to bloat (Gastric Dilatation Volvulus), I will never feed another 'adult' dog kibble again. Some breeds have bloat stats in the 40% range, so anything that can slightly reduce it happening is important to implement...in this case raw food means eating much slower. 

The point is also important as the vast majority of us don't have 24hr emergency vets five minutes from home like we may have in our developed countries. Not to mention even non-emergency cases are much more difficult to treat here. So best to try and avoid them to begin with. 

[wildewillie89]

 

Thank you for this good information. Very helpfull.

In an other post you suggest pigs heart, This is one of the most expansive parts from pig in Thailand. Even very difficult to purchase, as it has a high demand.

 

I tried now to find "Rumen" (not sure if this is the correct name, it is the first stomach from a cow) But according my wife this is also used, and not same as in my country "waste" 

 

To my understanding it is also healthy to feed dogs, complete, or bigger pieces of meat. So how about feeding a complete chicken? (I suppose without feathers) or a complete fish? Are there then really no problems with the bones and grate?

 

Arjen.

Complete animals are fine for dogs. You will get a lot of people online saying no due to parasites but if we constantly worry about this we will never feed our dogs anything. A few police dogs died not long back in my home country from eating kibble, so I see it as a non-issue. The risk is lower than the benefits the dog will get. A healthy dog should be able to eliminate parasites by itself. If it cannot then you probably need to be looking for other chronic health issues the dog may have. 

We feed complete fish, but our dogs are a bit fussy with which fish. Mackeral they are great with, but on the rare occasion the shops haven't restocked and we get other fish they may or may not eat the fish depending on their mood. Same with chicken...not to mention the numerous silly chickens that decide to end their lives by jumping our fence. 

My Border Collie used to eat whole possums back home. Would always wake up to a yard full of only fur. 

The point of the bigger pieces is to make the dog work to eat. So rather than inhaling food, they take a lot longer to get through it (less chance of bloating). Probably gives the teeth a bit of a clean also. 

The problem with Thailand is what we see as 'waste' or 'off cuts' the Thais see as perfectly fine meat. So drives the prices up.

[dick dasterdly]

 

A good point, especially for large to giant dog owners. After losing probably the smartest dog I will ever own to bloat (Gastric Dilatation Volvulus), I will never feed another 'adult' dog kibble again. Some breeds have bloat stats in the 40% range, so anything that can slightly reduce it happening is important to implement...in this case raw food means eating much slower. 

The point is also important as the vast majority of us don't have 24hr emergency vets five minutes from home like we may have in our developed countries. Not to mention even non-emergency cases are much more difficult to treat here. So best to try and avoid them to begin with. 

Yes, friends of mine lost one of their lovely dogs to bloat ☹️.

 

They realised almost immediately (after the evening meal) that something was v wrong, and we are lucky here in that there is a 24 hour vet practice relatively nearby - so they rushed him to the vet.

 

They operated, and he was in an incubator for a couple of days but, sadly, he still died ????.

Edited December 4, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

 

Complete animals are fine for dogs. You will get a lot of people online saying no due to parasites but if we constantly worry about this we will never feed our dogs anything. A few police dogs died not long back in my home country from eating kibble, so I see it as a non-issue. The risk is lower than the benefits the dog will get. A healthy dog should be able to eliminate parasites by itself. If it cannot then you probably need to be looking for other chronic health issues the dog may have. 

We feed complete fish, but our dogs are a bit fussy with which fish. Mackeral they are great with, but on the rare occasion the shops haven't restocked and we get other fish they may or may not eat the fish depending on their mood. Same with chicken...not to mention the numerous silly chickens that decide to end their lives by jumping our fence. 

My Border Collie used to eat whole possums back home. Would always wake up to a yard full of only fur. 

The point of the bigger pieces is to make the dog work to eat. So rather than inhaling food, they take a lot longer to get through it (less chance of bloating). Probably gives the teeth a bit of a clean also. 

The problem with Thailand is what we see as 'waste' or 'off cuts' the Thais see as perfectly fine meat. So drives the prices up.

I feed my dogs (as far as possible) Aus. meat as I suspect that Thai meat is full of hormones etc.

 

I made a v. expensive mistake yesterday when I bought a (nearly) 3kg lump of Aussie beef that I thought cost 299 bht per kilo.  It was only when I got to the checkout that it was actually 730 bht per kg! ???? And I couldn't just say 'I made a mistake, I don't want it' as I'd already had the meat cut up into 'dog meal' sized chunks!

 

Oh well, we learn by our mistakes.

[kekalot]

3 hours ago, Arjen said:

Thank you for this good information. Very helpfull.

In an other post you suggest pigs heart, This is one of the most expansive parts from pig in Thailand. Even very difficult to purchase, as it has a high demand.

 

I tried now to find "Rumen" (not sure if this is the correct name, it is the first stomach from a cow) But according my wife this is also used, and not same as in my country "waste" 

 

To my understanding it is also healthy to feed dogs, complete, or bigger pieces of meat. So how about feeding a complete chicken? (I suppose without feathers) or a complete fish? Are there then really no problems with the bones and grate?

 

Arjen.

I don't know, I get pigs hearts for like I think 25 or 30 baht at the local butcher shop. maybe its 50? haven't bought one in a while
 

I don't know if rumen per say is the "same" as tripe but for me, green tripe was very hard to get from a butcher, they were trying to drive up the price like crazy (ridiculous prices).

to me, that doesn't make much sense because the white tripe they sell at say Makro (and use in soups as far as i know) has to be processed (cleaned, bleached, whatnot) and it's relatively cheap. so, why would it be cheaper to buy processed tripe than raw?

 

anyways, the white one is useless since they washed off all the stuff that is good for the dogs

 

https://blog.homesalive.ca/what-are-the-benefits-of-tripe-for-dogs

 

here's some options for the raw meaty bones (different than what most people would think)

 

https://perfectlyrawsome.com/raw-feeding-classifications/safe-edible-raw-meaty-bone-guide/

Edited December 4, 2018 by kekalot

[giddyup]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:47 AM, dick dasterdly said:

OK, thanks.

 

One of my dogs has a presumed allergy problem of some sort (she keeps scratching and going bald), and the only thing that worked previously was Apoquel.  I've noticed that feeding her mackerel works almost as well as the tablets!  She rarely needs a tablet nowadays ????.

 

Edit - And when she does need a tablet, it's because I was feeling queasy (therefore not up to the revolting task of chopping up the fish...) and so she missed out on that part of her diet for a couple of days.

Is Apoquel available in Thailand and does it have any serious side effects? My little Schitzu cross has had allergies since a pup, continuously scratching, especially ears and under chin, he's also a paw licker. We've tried everything including apple cider vinegar in his bath rinse water, but nothing seems to work. Is it tinned mackerel you feed your dog? Might give that a try mixed with rice, he is pretty fussy with food though.

[giddyup]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I feed my dogs (as far as possible) Aus. meat as I suspect that Thai meat is full of hormones etc.

 

I made a v. expensive mistake yesterday when I bought a (nearly) 3kg lump of Aussie beef that I thought cost 299 bht per kilo.  It was only when I got to the checkout that it was actually 730 bht per kg! ???? And I couldn't just say 'I made a mistake, I don't want it' as I'd already had the meat cut up into 'dog meal' sized chunks!

 

Oh well, we learn by our mistakes.

Nothing to stop you using the beef in a stir fry. My dog likes beef as well but I do buy the cheap Thai beef as he doesn't get it every meal. The chicken and pork we feed him is probably full of hormones as well.

[dick dasterdly]

20 hours ago, giddyup said:

Is Apoquel available in Thailand and does it have any serious side effects? My little Schitzu cross has had allergies since a pup, continuously scratching, especially ears and under chin, he's also a paw licker. We've tried everything including apple cider vinegar in his bath rinse water, but nothing seems to work. Is it tinned mackerel you feed your dog? Might give that a try mixed with rice, he is pretty fussy with food though.

Yes it is available in Thailand, I obtain it from my vet.

 

I gather that it works by reducing the immune system, so far from ideal - and why I am so happy that Mackerel seems to be working!

 

I buy frozen, whole Norwegian Mackerel from Makro and cut off the head and tail - feeding them the (cut up) 'middle' part.  It's an absolutely revolting task (that made me gag when I first started), but I'm very slowly getting used to it.

[dick dasterdly]

20 hours ago, giddyup said:

Nothing to stop you using the beef in a stir fry. My dog likes beef as well but I do buy the cheap Thai beef as he doesn't get it every meal. The chicken and pork we feed him is probably full of hormones as well.

Yes, I think I'll eat the 730 bht per kg. beef myself ????.

 

Quite apart from anything else, presumably it's so expensive because it's not tough - and I want my dogs to chew the meat rather than wolfing it down!

[pastprime]

(I buy a bag of chicken carcasses  (Makro)  put it in big pot with half a bag of rice,cook it up for two or so hours   

[giddyup]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Yes it is available in Thailand, I obtain it from my vet.

 

I gather that it works by reducing the immune system, so far from ideal - and why I am so happy that Mackerel seems to be working!

 

I buy frozen, whole Norwegian Mackerel from Makro and cut off the head and tail - feeding them the (cut up) 'middle' part.  It's an absolutely revolting task (that made me gag when I first started), but I'm very slowly getting used to it.

Next time in Makro I'll buy some Mackerel, but I wonder if the tinned variety might be OK mixed with some rice?

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, pastprime said:

(I buy a bag of chicken carcasses  (Makro)  put it in big pot with half a bag of rice,cook it up for two or so hours   

So the dogs get cooked chicken bones? Not really recommended.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, giddyup said:

Next time in Makro I'll buy some Mackerel, but I wonder if the tinned variety might be OK mixed with some rice?

The only tinned Mackerel I've found is in a tomato sauce (presumably containing all sorts of additives?) - and I'm not convinced this is good for my dogs?

 

There seems to be a debate on this thread as to whether rice is good or bad for dogs, but I suspect that in small amounts it should be fine.

[dick dasterdly]

I've known people here that feed their dogs cooked chicken carcasses without any problems, but of course it goes entirely against the 'grain' for most of us who have been told that cooked chicken bones are a definite no-no!

 

On top of the splintering problem, I'd be worried that there is very little meat on a chicken carcass.

[neeray]

9 minutes ago, giddyup said:

So the dogs get cooked chicken bones? Not really recommended.

Agreed, not recommended. Apparently raw chicken bones are okay but I don't chance that either. Chicken necks are recommended (based on my research).

I once gave my 20 kg dog a raw back rib thinking she would eat the meat off of it. Instead, she woofed it down whole. That was a scary night but the stomach acid seems to have dissolved it.

[pastprime]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've known people here that feed their dogs cooked chicken carcasses without any problems, but of course it goes entirely against the 'grain' for most of us who have been told that cooked chicken bones are a definite no-no!

 

On top of the splintering problem, I'd be worried that there is very little meat on a chicken carcass.

Its fat mostly, cooked for years,fed everything and everydog,none ill  put on weight tho