Rejected at the airport, what is next?

[OJAS]

11 hours ago, Gilsh said:

 

3. I should have more than 20k bhat in cash with me (can it be in USD?)

It can definitely be in USD. Or possibly ILS.

[Just Weird]

3 hours ago, tifino said:

 ... and if one claims to have a foreign card that one claims has funds in it, then simply attend the currconvcounter to convert some of that out to cash! Where is the problem? 

That exchange office will sell THB and accept a foreign credit card to pay for it? 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Just Weird

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, fruitman said:

In my latest passport are only official multiple non-o visa's for entering thailand....but when i arrive at the airport they always read all pages and check stamps ....Takes about a minute or so. I'm European if that matters.

 

I also got the impression they are searching for something to refuse me entry...i never did anything wrong though, never overstayed or anything. They have asked me if i work in Thailand which i don't and won't.

This is consistent at all border-points, including friendly ones - and even when the latest stamp is on the last used-page (easy to find).   I would guess they are looking for stamps from countries would could indicate a potential security threat. 

 

3 hours ago, tifino said:

 ... and if one claims to have a foreign card that one claims has funds in it, then simply attend the currconvcounter to convert some of that out to cash! Where is the problem? 

3 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I am not sure. Do you think one can get Thai baht from a currency conversion counter using credit or debit Visa/MC?I will try it out in Pattaya. If it is so, than there is no need for ATM, I agree. 

Mixed reports on if that is possible.  Some have reported they will not do cash-advances from cards - others say they will do it. 

 

Best to load-up with cash before boarding the plane, as Thai Airways in Vientiane are now reported to be requiring to board - and as all flights to Thailand should now demand, for the sake of their passengers' well-being.

[Gilsh]

1 hour ago, Misty said:

If the OP wants to and is able to stay in Thailand for 9 months of the year without having to work, wouldn't this be a case where the Elite card could make sense?

I dont know if i want to stay for 5 years. if i did i would have done it but 15K usd for 1-2 years is too much

[JackThompson]

44 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

I think that the message the Thai authorities are trying to send to all folks coming to Thailand is that tourism visas (and visa waivers) are for genuine tourists only.

In Thai law, "genuine tourist" is defined as not working a job, and having the money to afford one's next stay of 60-days (with a Tourist Visa).

 

45 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

If you want to stay longer without hassle, get an appropriate visa for longer stays. It is really that simple.

For those under-50, not married to a Thai, self-financed but not rich (enough to burn 500K+ baht for an Elite visa or invest 10M baht for an investment-based) - there are no options for a Tourist lifestyle. 

 

ED (become a student), Volunteer (become a volunteer), or Work (take a Thai's job) are the only options I can think of, but would require the OP to stop living here as a Tourist, as he is doing now.

 

45 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

Those persisting with back-to-back tourist visas and extenstions can expect push back - this time it will be the 20k THB requirement, next time it will be some other restriction. Until you get the message. 

This "message" is only sent when entering at Aranya/Poipet land-border, the Bangkok airports, and possibly some other airports (not enough reports to know for sure).   The policy is not in accordance with legitimate, published reasons to deny-entry.

[Gilsh]

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Regarding the "2" - Did they look at you bank-balance and tell you it needed to be higher, or it needed to show foreign-xfers?  Did they say you needed to bring a different form of proof on this point in the future, to get a Tourist Visa entry of 60-days stay?  I am guessing not, given others have reported getting it without any questions at all about their financial situation - but those would have been relevant to that stamp.

I had a bank statement with me with way more money that I need to stay in Thailand and I also had proof that I have passive income. they refused to let me show it to them

[alex8912]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

There are no ATM’s because they aren’t needed by 99.99% of visitors, and the lack of certainly isn’t anything to do with an immigration ploy!

 

If immigration are asking about cash they are almost certainly thinking about denying entry even if the person has the requisite cash. Even if ATM’s existed they’d be of little use to someone in that situation.

I like your advise most times but I think your stat of 99.99 percent of arriving tourists not needing cash is ridiculous. The first thing many and I would sometimes say MOST tourists do is go the atm or money exchange but AFTER they go through immigration ( fir convenience ). I meet many tourists here in Thailand and both this year and last year I asked them if the knew the quivolent of 20k could be asked for AT immigration and not one single person has said yes ( I’ve asked over 100) as I mentioned most said they used the ATM after. I also do this when I visit most other countries as well. The second point I would like to argue is that you keep insisting with absolutely no reason that IF this person had 20k on him he would have been rejected anyways. What exactly do you mean? Not just they will find another reason blah blah. An METV lets you stay up to nine months ( and you have to show income and many other things to get one in your home country). He seemed to leave the country for at least 3 months between them. I think in this ONE situation not having the 20k was the reason. If he showed the 20k AND showed the bank statement that he said he had I think he would have been let in ( perhaps it would have gone to a supervisor level or he should have asked for one if he had 20k) and then he would have been let in with just a verbal warning. Do you think what I wrote is at least 50% or more possible ? 

[onera1961]

2 minutes ago, Gilsh said:

I dont know if i want to stay for 5 years. if i did i would have done it but 15K usd for 1-2 years is too much

Agree. It does not make sense for a few years. Your best bet would to enroll in a language class for ED visa. I am not sure what is the requirement now. In 2013 when I had ED visa, I paid 20K for a Thai language course that included visa in Time Square building, Bangkok (opposite Sukumvit 15). I had to get the visa from Penang but after that I did not leave Thailand for one year. They will remind you and arrange all the papers to renew it at CW every three months. It was smooth compared to my prior two years of visa runs on tourist visas and exemptions. 

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, Gilsh said:

also, she told me that they already had 3 similar cases this week.  

And that's just from Israel in a week - which has a fraction of the visitors from USA, Canada, UK, and the EU.   I wish we could get numbers, so we could calculate the total-damage done to Thai businesses and Thai employees which immigration is throwing out of their jobs by this behavior.

 

10 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Also bang on about how much xpats spend here in Thailand. 555. Nonessential

We spend 3x or more full Thai salaries per each - more on average. 

 

Would anyone go to a tourist area, being harmed by Bangkok-airport-immigration's policies, and tell the Thais working there that their jobs and livelihoods are "non-essential" to the Thai economy?   In other words, say, "Go back to your farms and forget about buying that tractor, or taking care of mom, dad, and grandparents," because it doesn't really make that much GDP-difference, to those who earn their living as investors?

 

Keep in mind, there is no "welfare" for foreigners here.  Western visitors are nothing like what is happening in our homelands.  Our stays are all upside, with each one of us helping multiple Thais have more prosperous lives and more financially-secure families - from market-activity.

 

7 hours ago, balo said:

Then I would bring all the documents with me , take pictures of your condo to show immigration that you have invested a lot. 

That would just make them more angry.  They do not want us putting down roots here - and tolerate us groups from whom a portion can be forced to pay them off with agent-money, elite-money, or similar.  Zero-percent of Tourist Visa users are passing brown-envelope money to immigration.  A better story would be that you are just entering this "one last time" to get your stuff and leave for good, showing an outgoing ticket to far, far away departing in a week's time.

 

One must keep in mind - this policy Hurts The Thai Economy and Impoverishes Thousands of Thai People - so they clearly don't care about anything which one might assume a patriot or civil-servant should care about.  This policy forces Thais "back to their farms" - before they can reach the middle-class - by preventing them access to the capital needed to modernize those farms and/or start other businesses.  We expats provide that capital through our spending - each of us benefiting many Thai families. 

 

It is hard for good people to put themselves in the mindset of bad people, which is why so many are caught off-guard by these types of circumstances.

[alex8912]

11 minutes ago, Gilsh said:

I had a bank statement with me with way more money that I need to stay in Thailand and I also had proof that I have passive income. they refused to let me show it to them

Were you with a supervisor and exactly how do they refuse you from showing your bank statement ? Didn’t you at least have it in your hand at some point ? Do you personally feel if you had the equivalent of 20k cash you would have been let in ? This is really important I think. Thank you. 

[scubascuba3]

I had a bank statement with me with way more money that I need to stay in Thailand and I also had proof that I have passive income. they refused to let me show it to them

Gilsh, you may have said this already but its useful information, how old are you? What nationality? How were you dressed? Caucasian?

The reason i ask is there are different theories why they stop different people.

I'm 48, and have been using an METV for 4 years without being stopped

[alex8912]

50 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The "9" means you didn't have the 20K Baht to show

The "2" means they determined you did not have the funds to afford your stay here. 

 

Regarding the "2" - Did they look at you bank-balance and tell you it needed to be higher, or it needed to show foreign-xfers?  Did they say you needed to bring a different form of proof on this point in the future, to get a Tourist Visa entry of 60-days stay?  I am guessing not, given others have reported getting it without any questions at all about their financial situation - but those would have been relevant to that stamp.

 

Note that you were applying for a 60-day stay, so any financial issues would Only involve funds needed for that future-time, maximum.  An additional 30-days can be applied for to extend that stay, but this receives separate and independent permission-granted by immigration at a local office.  So, only 60-days of future-spending-ability was relevant when you were attempting entry.  If they didn't determine you didn't have the funds to live here for 60-days, then they lied when they put that "2" in your passport-stamp.

 

How I wish our consulates/govts cared about our well-being as much as yours cares about you and yours.  You are very fortunate, in this respect.

 

His govt exists to help and serve the interests of his people, anywhere in the world, first and foremost.  That's the primary difference. 

I like your first part of this very much. I don’t understand the number 2 rejection if he had a bank statement with him showing funds. Do you think personally if he had 20k on him he would have been let in? Perhaps just a verbal warning ? 

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Not many countries allow 75% of 4 years live in thwir country on tourist visas.

Sure they do.  I have stayed in several.  They hoped I would never leave, other than an "out/in" to comply with the terms of my visa.  "Welcome Back" is the general attitude.

 

6 hours ago, AlexRich said:

You could spend 9 months in the Phillipinnes without any hassle whatsoever. Go to Cebu City and it has all the modern conveniences of any Thai city. Then go back to Thailand.

No reason to limit it to 9-mo.  They have made it easy to stay 3 years before your first visa-run now (formerly 14 months) - and welcome-back those folks the same day they left, for another 3 year stint.

[Mark1066]

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

What thread are you reading. The op has posted NOTHING since starting thread. Can you correct me. I would love info to help this poor chap out of bad situation.

Do you just come on here to abuse people? The thread was started an hour and 13 minutes before you made this post. What is wrong with you?

[Tony125]

5 hours ago, mvdf said:

BRING CASH! Why is it so difficult for English-speaking expats to understand this!? Tourists bring cash with them. No bona fide tourist travels totally cashless! Maligning the Kingdom's border watchdogs for performing their duties is plain wrong. If you all want to avoid problems, follow the rules, instead of challenging them!

No bona fide tourist travels totally cashless?   Are you for real?  Most travelers carry little cash in this day and age as ATM's are prevalent in most countries and they don't want to be robbed. 

[sanemax]

36 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Agree. It does not make sense for a few years. Your best bet would to enroll in a language class for ED visa. I am not sure what is the requirement now. In 2013 when I had ED visa, I paid 20K for a Thai language course that included visa in Time Square building, Bangkok (opposite Sukumvit 15). I had to get the visa from Penang but after that I did not leave Thailand for one year. They will remind you and arrange all the papers to renew it at CW every three months. It was smooth compared to my prior two years of visa runs on tourist visas and exemptions. 

They have doubled the minimum hours that you need to study per week so that 20 000 Baht yearly school fees is now just good for six months 

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, Gilsh said:

So from what I understand:

1. there is no benefit from making an ED visa. I should just continue doing METV

An ED Visa could be extended every 3 mo for up to a year in Thailand, but travel outside Thailand while using this method would need to use re-entry permits and friendly land-borders.  As well, some agent-style payoff, laundered through the school for each extension, might be necessary.  The amount and policy varies by which immigration office is involved.  Some recent reports indicate 3K to 5K Baht per-extension.

 

12 hours ago, Gilsh said:

2. I should not take a direct flight to Samui (which doesn't go through the immigration in Bangkok). instead, it is better to get a flight to Laos(still have a connection in bangkok) and from there travel by land 

You could also fly to Penang (usually via KL - easier to find flights from some parts of the world) and then take the Train in through the Pedang Besar entry-point.  Asking to see the 20K Baht is reported here, so be prepared.  Then, on by train, bus, and/or taxi to Hat Yai airport, and fly domestic from there.  If you need more details on this route, feel free to ask (I've done it many times).

 

12 hours ago, Gilsh said:

3. I should have more than 20k bhat in cash with me (can it be in USD?)

Any convertible currency is OK - USD would be a good choice.  Travelers checks (what I use) can also work, if you want to be safe, and avoid carrying all that unnecessary (in today's world) cash.

 

12 hours ago, Gilsh said:

4. I should be able to prove that i have income from abroad and do not need to work in Thailand

This could be helpful at a friendly land-border, if the issue should come up.  When I stayed here frequently as a Tourist, I had copies of everything - from my university-degrees to bank-statements, to docs from my offshore-business.  But, I never had to use them, and quit flying in as soon as these problems first began being reported.

 

The question about having documents is, what kind of IO are you dealing with?  Are you dealing with an honest IO who is trying to protect the Thai people from illegal-workers?  Or, are you dealing with an dishonest IO who is receiving payment to arbitrarily deny-entry to self-funded travelers, and doesn't care at all about the well-being of Thai people or whether you can "really" support yourself for the next 60-days in Thailand? 

 

The only way we have to gauge this, is based on reports from those entering the country.  It would seem one is much, much more likely encounter the "bad guys" who spout unpublished-rules, and are not interested in financial-data, at a Bangkok airport.

 

12 hours ago, Gilsh said:

I couldn't find any stamps on my visa.. does this mean it is still valid? If so, can i make a new one while it is still valid?

If there are no marks on the Visa itself, then it is still valid for use until the "enter before" date stamped on it.  Others who have been through similar situations have used the visa to enter the next day, at an honest land-border.

[Mark1066]

Just now, Tony125 said:

No bona fide tourist travels totally cashless?   Are you for real?  Most travelers carry little cash in this day and age as ATM's are prevalent in most countries and they don't want to be robbed. 

My thoughts exactly. If it weren't for this rule, why on earth would you carry over $600 in cash when there are ATMs all over the place and you can pay for almost everything with a debit/credit card? Apart from a few braggards on here who claim to carry at least $5,000 wherever they go, I don't know anybody who carries large amounts of cash on them these days. It's simply not necessary.

[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

They have doubled the minimum hours that you need to study per week so that 20 000 Baht yearly school fees is now just good for six months 

It seems they over-shot the numbers last time, saw a fall in brown-envelope revenue, so have reduced the required-hours in some areas recently (a few months ago).  The policy varies by immigration-region.

[lkv]

Can you imagine if a Chinese would be asked for 20K and it would go on social media?

 

Then they would twist it in typical Thai fashion, saying that in fact it does not have to be cash and Alipay is ok.

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, Gilsh said:

I had a bank statement with me with way more money that I need to stay in Thailand and I also had proof that I have passive income. they refused to let me show it to them

They don't care about that, they are looking for an excuse to deny your entry and since the Thai rules say you must have an equivalent of 20,000 baht on you when entering on various visas (cash or travelers checks) that is a legal reason for them to deny you entry. 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Gilsh said:

I had a bank statement with me with way more money that I need to stay in Thailand and I also had proof that I have passive income. they refused to let me show it to them

Show us the money!

[Lovethailandelite]

31 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

An ED Visa could be extended every 3 mo for up to a year in Thailand, but travel outside Thailand while using this method would need to use re-entry permits and friendly land-borders.  As well, some agent-style payoff, laundered through the school for each extension, might be necessary.  The amount and policy varies by which immigration office is involved.  Some recent reports indicate 3K to 5K Baht per-extension.

 

You could also fly to Penang (usually via KL - easier to find flights from some parts of the world) and then take the Train in through the Pedang Besar entry-point.  Asking to see the 20K Baht is reported here, so be prepared.  Then, on by train, bus, and/or taxi to Hat Yai airport, and fly domestic from there.  If you need more details on this route, feel free to ask (I've done it many times).

 

Any convertible currency is OK - USD would be a good choice.  Travelers checks (what I use) can also work, if you want to be safe, and avoid carrying all that unnecessary (in today's world) cash.

 

This could be helpful at a friendly land-border, if the issue should come up.  When I stayed here frequently as a Tourist, I had copies of everything - from my university-degrees to bank-statements, to docs from my offshore-business.  But, I never had to use them, and quit flying in as soon as these problems first began being reported.

 

The question about having documents is, what kind of IO are you dealing with?  Are you dealing with an honest IO who is trying to protect the Thai people from illegal-workers?  Or, are you dealing with an dishonest IO who is receiving payment to arbitrarily deny-entry to self-funded travelers, and doesn't care at all about the well-being of Thai people or whether you can "really" support yourself for the next 60-days in Thailand? 

 

The only way we have to gauge this, is based on reports from those entering the country.  It would seem one is much, much more likely encounter the "bad guys" who spout unpublished-rules, and are not interested in financial-data, at a Bangkok airport.

 

If there are no marks on the Visa itself, then it is still valid for use until the "enter before" date stamped on it.  Others who have been through similar situations have used the visa to enter the next day, at an honest land-border.

He is going nowhere near Penang or KL with an Israeli passport.

[yogi100]

18 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

If it was that easy, don't you think he would have done it? There are no cash machines before immigration. This has been explained many times on this forum.

Not everyone lives their lives with their nose glued to a computer screen displaying this or any other forum.

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, Proboscis said:

I think that the message the Thai authorities are trying to send to all folks coming to Thailand is that tourism visas (and visa waivers) are for genuine tourists only.

If the Thai authorities wanted this they would simply change the official rules.

They don't change the official rules, so we can assume the Thai authorities don't want this, but it's just what some immigration officers at certain entry points want.

[JackThompson]

10 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

He is going nowhere near Penang or KL with an Israeli passport.

Oh - dang - I forgot about that issue.  Good point.

@Gilsh- sorry about that.  So it's either Vientiane or a longer bus-trip from a different starting country.

[geriatrickid]

43 minutes ago, Mark1066 said:

My thoughts exactly. If it weren't for this rule, why on earth would you carry over $600 in cash when there are ATMs all over the place and you can pay for almost everything with a debit/credit card? Apart from a few braggards on here who claim to carry at least $5,000 wherever they go, I don't know anybody who carries large amounts of cash on them these days. It's simply not necessary.

Only a fool relies on an ATM machine'

- ATM machines do go down and there have been system wide failures.

- Cards can be lost, or rendered inoperable

- Home banks can freeze cards.

Immigration has no way of knowing if the visitor actually has some money. Considering the number of threads in TVF, including this one, that discuss how to play the system, the immigration department's position is reasonable.

20,000 baht is an insignificant amount today, whether you wish to accept that or not and isn't even enough to cover a basic return fare change if someone is refused at the port of entry.

 

In respect to the OP's inquiry, encouraging him to play the ED visa game is wrong. This is not waht the ED visas were intended for, and the more people try to use them to circumvent the intent of the  visa rules, the more likely we will lose access to the ED visa altogether.  The OP should just get a proper long stay visa. He should also start paying his income taxes in Thailand as he is supposed to if he lives in Thailand for more than 6 months a year.

[jackdd]

6 hours ago, mvdf said:

BRING CASH! Why is it so difficult for English-speaking expats to understand this!? Tourists bring cash with them.

The very first time when i came to Thailand i arrived here with probably less than a hundred Euros. Why should i have carried more? I had a credit card with me and read already that ATMs are available everywhere, i wasn't aware that a rule like "you have to carry 20k THB" exists and back then nobody asked for it anyway.

Edited December 2, 2018 by jackdd

[Tony125]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

The very first time when i came to Thailand i arrived here with probably less than a hundred Euros. Why should i have carried more? I had a credit card with me and read already that ATMs are available everywhere, i wasn't aware that a rule like "you have to carry 20k THB" exists and back then nobody asked for it anyway.

4

As you said "the very first time" you came to Thailand. If you hadn't been here before they recognize you are a tourist as this is your first visit but if you are staying in Thailand for a long time they are looking for a reason to deny your entry (possibly thinking your working illegally ) so they will ask for proof of money to stay in Thailand on your vacation and  the rules state 20,000 baht or equivalent in cash---not bank statements, condo rental receipt, credit card ect.

[sanemax]

18 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Only a fool relies on an ATM machine'

- ATM machines do go down and there have been system wide failures.

- Cards can be lost, or rendered inoperable

- Home banks can freeze cards.

Immigration has no way of knowing if the visitor actually has some money. Considering the number of threads in TVF, including this one, that discuss how to play the system, the immigration department's position is reasonable.

20,000 baht is an insignificant amount today, whether you wish to accept that or not and isn't even enough to cover a basic return fare change if someone is refused at the port of entry.

 

There are ATM's everywhere , if ones not working , there will be one close by thats working.

   Its not the amount , 20 000 Baht , is the hassle of having to carry the money all the way from Thailand , to an Embassy abroad and then back into Thailand again, just incase you get asked to show it .

  You would need 20 000 in a Thai bank , 20 000 in cash and 10 000 for expenses .

Travelling on buses and staying in hotels with 30 000 Baht cash on you is a security risk