thanks, great analogy..... agree May has been and still is playing the "delay" time card to avoid confrontation, the MP want the vote before XMas bu she says before Jan 21, arriving that date she will come up with another delay tactic until March and at the last minute the MP's have no other option than to accept the deal....she's not to bad of tactical player on this sense

No deal seems favourite as the clock goes tick.tick towards the end of March

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1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

join the WTO

Yeah, that shows your level of understanding.

But don't worry, you are not alone...

12 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

you and a lot of others voted without knowing the reality of the vote and the potential  consequences?? smart move

Whereas you on the other hand weren't in it full stop or were a silver medalist...?

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yeah, that shows your level of understanding.

But don't worry, you are not alone...

Correct; "I'm Spartacus and so is my wife" ????

Somehow this is funny.

Often I read The Guardian and basically everybody agrees that leaving the EU is a stupid idea.

There are hundreds of good reasons how the UK benefits if they stay.

And I am still waiting to see reason why anybody thinks the UK will be better off outside the EU.

And then here in this forum there still seem to be lots of people who somehow feel (think would be the wrong word) that there is a bright future after crashing out of the EU.

Do you all follow the news from time to time? Which part of the not existing bright future don't you understand?

It seems many of you still dream about cake, cherries and unicorns, even if nobody can describe that place where all these wonderful things are.

People who still think crashing out deserve nothing better. But then there are the younger generations in the UK who have to suffer because of the people who somehow feel some time ago everything was better and who somehow feel that somehow without the EU it will be better again.

Enjoy your dreams - before reality kicks in.

And remember: Reality Is That Which, When You Stop Believing In It, Doesn't Go Away

19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yeah, that shows your level of understanding.

But don't worry, you are not alone...

There are a lot more countries that are part of WTO,than

EU,so what's to fear, the EU will have no problem replacing

the UK with quality countries like Turkey,Albania and Kosovo,

who will only be takers not givers.

regards worgeordie

51 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

 

 

The way things stand It appears to me its either going to be a hard Brexit or another referendum which nobody can really predict the outcome.

            JC   where are  thou ?, 

                You  can deliver the final blow to Tory capitalism in the UK,   [ including Tory blair ]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Somehow this is funny.

Often I read The Guardian and basically everybody agrees that leaving the EU is a stupid idea.

There are hundreds of good reasons how the UK benefits if they stay.

And I am still waiting to see reason why anybody thinks the UK will be better off outside the EU.

And then here in this forum there still seem to be lots of people who somehow feel (think would be the wrong word) that there is a bright future after crashing out of the EU.

Do you all follow the news from time to time? Which part of the not existing bright future don't you understand?

It seems many of you still dream about cake, cherries and unicorns, even if nobody can describe that place where all these wonderful things are.

People who still think crashing out deserve nothing better. But then there are the younger generations in the UK who have to suffer because of the people who somehow feel some time ago everything was better and who somehow feel that somehow without the EU it will be better again.

Enjoy your dreams - before reality kicks in.

And remember: Reality Is That Which, When You Stop Believing In It, Doesn't Go Away

You are nonetheless entitled to our opinion ☺

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Somehow this is funny.

Often I read The Guardian and basically everybody agrees that leaving the EU is a stupid idea.

There are hundreds of good reasons how the UK benefits if they stay.

And I am still waiting to see reason why anybody thinks the UK will be better off outside the EU.

And then here in this forum there still seem to be lots of people who somehow feel (think would be the wrong word) that there is a bright future after crashing out of the EU.

Do you all follow the news from time to time? Which part of the not existing bright future don't you understand?

It seems many of you still dream about cake, cherries and unicorns, even if nobody can describe that place where all these wonderful things are.

People who still think crashing out deserve nothing better. But then there are the younger generations in the UK who have to suffer because of the people who somehow feel some time ago everything was better and who somehow feel that somehow without the EU it will be better again.

Enjoy your dreams - before reality kicks in.

And remember: Reality Is That Which, When You Stop Believing In It, Doesn't Go Away

Sorry to say that but I think you have absolutely no understanding what the Brits actually want.It's not about cherries and cakes.They want to decide who can come to there country,they want to decide who to support with there money,they don't want the EU telling them what they can do or not do.They are so lucky they got the opportunity to chose.If other counties would have the opportunity to chose,then the EU would be past already.Miss Merkel,Junker the alcoholic should be nice so they can hope the brits pay 39B.

12 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Sorry to say that but I think you have absolutely no understanding what the Brits actually want.It's not about cherries and cakes.They want to decide who can come to there country,they want to decide who to support with there money,they don't want the EU telling them what they can do or not do.They are so lucky they got the opportunity to chose.If other counties would have the opportunity to chose,then the EU would be past already.Miss Merkel,Junker the alcoholic should be nice so they can hope the brits pay 39B.

If it would be so easy then why does the UK not have an agreement with the EU already?

It is obviously not easy. It's not easy because there are thousands of different issues which are connected with each other.

It's impossible to not want one thing but to keep all the other things.

May tried to find a compromise and it seems that will go nowhere.

Do you really think crashing out will be all in all good for the UK? Maybe some things will be better but hundreds of others will be worse. Is it worth it?

And where will all those nurses and others come from? Because there are obviously not enough British people who want to work in those jobs.

22 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Somehow this is funny.

Often I read The Guardian and basically everybody agrees that leaving the EU is a stupid idea.

There are hundreds of good reasons how the UK benefits if they stay.

And I am still waiting to see reason why anybody thinks the UK will be better off outside the EU.

And then here in this forum there still seem to be lots of people who somehow feel (think would be the wrong word) that there is a bright future after crashing out of the EU.

Do you all follow the news from time to time? Which part of the not existing bright future don't you understand?

It seems many of you still dream about cake, cherries and unicorns, even if nobody can describe that place where all these wonderful things are.

People who still think crashing out deserve nothing better. But then there are the younger generations in the UK who have to suffer because of the people who somehow feel some time ago everything was better and who somehow feel that somehow without the EU it will be better again.

Enjoy your dreams - before reality kicks in.

And remember: Reality Is That Which, When You Stop Believing In It, Doesn't Go Away

You read the left wing rag The Guardian, most sensible people would have kept that to themselves, just wait till your friends find out, they will quite rightly disown you. Who is "everybody thinks its a bad idea" that the UK is leaving the EU, the columnist of the Guardian. Have you a link to everybody thinks its a bad idea, because most people I talk to think its a splendid idea.

 

As for the younger generations having to suffer, please supply a link or just admit it is more nonsense you have dreamt up. It is all in your mind, the EU has done a good job on you, their programming of their citizens has got to be admired, you are not alone on that one, we want to get away before we suffer from the same Big Brother syndrome.????.

 

Do you seriously think there is anything wrong with a country wanting to preserve its own identity and make its own rules and not being swallowed up by an empire that wants total control and nothing less.

 

Most of your posts absolutely reek of sour grapes, are you one of the countries where your payments go up or will your charity payments you receive go down after the UK exits?

 

 

44 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If it would be so easy then why does the UK not have an agreement with the EU already?

It is obviously not easy. It's not easy because there are thousands of different issues which are connected with each other.

It's impossible to not want one thing but to keep all the other things.

May tried to find a compromise and it seems that will go nowhere.

Do you really think crashing out will be all in all good for the UK? Maybe some things will be better but hundreds of others will be worse. Is it worth it?

And where will all those nurses and others come from? Because there are obviously not enough British people who want to work in those jobs.

Nobody said it's easy.Is it worth it?I think yes,the brits will be independent that maybe has a higher value than anything else.There are nurses not only in the EU.Hard Brexit will happen,it was clear from the start the EU will not make it easy for the UK.Miss May is trying to get a better deal for the UK,but most hardliners don't want that,they don't want any relation with the EU.I don't think there will be a 2nd referendum,because if the pro EU side wins the UK  will look like totally idiots.

51 minutes ago, vogie said:

You read the left wing rag The Guardian, most sensible people would have kept that to themselves, just wait till your friends find out, they will quite rightly disown you. Who is "everybody thinks its a bad idea" that the UK is leaving the EU, the columnist of the Guardian. Have you a link to everybody thinks its a bad idea, because most people I talk to think its a splendid idea.

 

As for the younger generations having to suffer, please supply a link or just admit it is more nonsense you have dreamt up. It is all in your mind, the EU has done a good job on you, their programming of their citizens has got to be admired, you are not alone on that one, we want to get away before we suffer from the same Big Brother syndrome.????.

 

Do you seriously think there is anything wrong with a country wanting to preserve its own identity and make its own rules and not being swallowed up by an empire that wants total control and nothing less.

 

Most of your posts absolutely reek of sour grapes, are you one of the countries where your payments go up or will your charity payments you receive go down after the UK exits?

Maybe you should read the Guardian from time to time.

You don't have to agree with them but you will learn lots of facts. But I guess that is the problem for you. If you would learn those facts that information might destroy your fantasy of this wonderful UK after a hard Brexit. And to avoid looking at facts it's so much easier to ignore some media which don't publish what you like to hear in your echo chamber.

7 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

I don't think there will be a 2nd referendum,because if the pro EU side wins the UK  will look like totally idiots.

And how will the UK look if they crash out of the EU?

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe you should read the Guardian from time to time.

You don't have to agree with them but you will learn lots of facts. But I guess that is the problem for you. If you would learn those facts that information might destroy your fantasy of this wonderful UK after a hard Brexit. And to avoid looking at facts it's so much easier to ignore some media which don't publish what you like to hear in your echo chamber.

If that is your answer to my post I can see I've wasted my time asking you questions. You are more programmed than I thought.

Just because the Guardian prints something, that does not make it fact, you do understand don't you.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

If it would be so easy then why does the UK not have an agreement with the EU already?
It is obviously not easy. It's not easy because there are thousands of different issues which are connected with each other.
It's impossible to not want one thing but to keep all the other things.
May tried to find a compromise and it seems that will go nowhere.
Do you really think crashing out will be all in all good for the UK? Maybe some things will be better but hundreds of others will be worse. Is it worth it?
And where will all those nurses and others come from? Because there are obviously not enough British people who want to work in those jobs.

I dare say the UK could get Doctors..nurses..etc etc..from countries like USA.CANADA.AUSTRALIA.NEW.ZEALAND..the PHILIPPEANES..all English speaking countries.
Also..do you honestly think that every eu person working in the UK are/will be heading off back to their own countries of origin????
Behave yourself!!!

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For anybody who likes more of the same: https://www.theguardian.com/profile/stevebell

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

If that is your answer to my post I can see I've wasted my time asking you questions. You are more programmed than I thought.

Just because the Guardian prints something, that does not make it fact, you do understand don't you.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

So what do you suggest for facts? The Sun or maybe The Telegraph? Or TV or facebook?

Where is a detailed plan about Brexiters which is realistic?

It must be well hidden or maybe top secret because I don't see it anywhere.

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

So what do you suggest for facts? The Sun or maybe The Telegraph? Or TV or facebook?

Where is a detailed plan about Brexiters which is realistic?

It must be well hidden or maybe top secret because I don't see it anywhere.

I suggest you provide facts to your fantasy posts, instead of deflecting, if you cannot provide facts to your fairy stories it might be a good idea not to post what you think is fact.

30 minutes ago, vogie said:

I suggest you provide facts to your fantasy posts, instead of deflecting, if you cannot provide facts to your fairy stories it might be a good idea not to post what you think is fact.

Try this: https://www.theguardian.com/ or this: http://www.bbc.com/

T May is playing for a sympathy vote - poor little me against EU bullies. Rubbish. More like incompetent me against people who know what they're doing. Latest polls suggest that most people in UK now want to remain, having rumbled the frauds and lies which influenced the 2016 result, and having discovered that the only brexit possible (apart from unthinkable "no deal") leaves us worse off than we are as members.

57 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And how will the UK look if they crash out of the EU?

Independent.

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Try this: https://www.theguardian.com/ or this: http://www.bbc.com/

I wasn't asking for a link to the Guardian, I already know how to do that thanks, could you be more specific and address the questions I have asked you.

59 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe you should read the Guardian from time to time.

You don't have to agree with them but you will learn lots of facts.

I've been reading The Guardian for decades. Its coverage of Brexit is very limited in terms of frequency, range and depth. The Guardian's political coverage is more along the lines of opinion pieces than facts, this is particularly true of Brexit, which The Guardian is against.

 

Anyone who really wants to be informed needs to be open to a range of news media. But few people seem to be. 

 

The big problem nowadays is the online "echo chamber" where people immerse themselves in views that reflect their own. And then they get aggressive when they are confronted with different views. You can see it every day on this forum.

 

17 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Independent.

May I also add, away from the corrupt, controlling, manipulative non democratic organisation that isn't far away, from the early birth of the Nazi party. Happily, many people can see this and as much as the establishment to the media, along with people on forums, will harper on that the UK is on the wrong path, The people can see this. It doesn't matter what the remainers say or threaten. Away from the bondage of the European Union would be worth it for independence.  Those who voted leave have vision, passion and belief in the UK. The EU has clearly shown that it is a bully boys club and the people of the UK who have made a decision, We want out. Let the UK go and this so called great organization that are being controlled and dominated can go on as they choose.

 

I do wish the media (EU controlled) would be more honest with the truth on how the UK was lied to  get in the EEC (EU) and stay in. Makes the red bus claim farcical.

11 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

May I also add, away from the corrupt, controlling, manipulative non democratic organisation that isn't far away, from the early birth of the Nazi party. Happily, many people can see this and as much as the establishment to the media, along with people on forums, will harper on that the UK is on the wrong path, The people can see this. It doesn't matter what the remainers say or threaten. Away from the bondage of the European Union would be worth it for independence.  Those who voted leave have vision, passion and belief in the UK. The EU has clearly shown that it is a bully boys club and the people of the UK who have made a decision, We want out. Let the UK go and this so called great organization that are being controlled and dominated can go on as they choose.

 

I do wish the media (EU controlled) would be more honest with the truth on how the UK was lied to  get in the EEC (EU) and stay in. Makes the red bus claim farcical.

Interesting how a net contributor can owe money after all we have invested in the EU every year for 40 years. The ex Greek finance minister warned how they would operate and he has been sadly proved true.

 

if Poland left would they still get monies after they left, or would they have to pay back what they took. 

 

The nebulous term maybe he was talking about the EU?

 

Why do remain supporters not consider the very high risks with saying such as in Germany has just had its worse manufacturing data in 5 years

 

German ecconomy shrinks-for-first-time-since-2015-video

 

fFrance is well to be polite on the slide, Italy is dealing with mass illegal entry and the banks are do dos with the German banks propping them up, and Spain is also in a mess. Why would we need to stay in a very failing group?

 

We had to bail the Irish out in 2009 and they treat us like they have. There is a border in Ireland already for those that have actually been you are very likely when leaving the North to be stopped within a couple of miles from the border by customs or their Garda. Viradka caused the border issue as it had informally been worked out before he took over.

 

 

 

Nothing nebulous about the posters on TV. 

15 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I've been reading The Guardian for decades. Its coverage of Brexit is very limited in terms of frequency, range and depth. The Guardian's political coverage is more along the lines of opinion pieces than facts, this is particularly true of Brexit, which The Guardian is against.

 

Anyone who really wants to be informed needs to be open to a range of news media. But few people seem to be. 

 

The big problem nowadays is the online "echo chamber" where people immerse themselves in views that reflect their own. And then they get aggressive when they are confronted with different views. You can see it every day on this forum.

Personally I look at several sources. The problem is obviously always: Who can you trust to write accurate information?

It's obvious that The Guardian are against Brexit. But I think they still do a good job of reporting facts and different options.

And they show clearly what is news and what is an opinion.

I also read the BBC and other international media. And as far as I see they all agree on the basic facts.

I don't look at facebook or any of the Murdoch media for obvious reasons.

 

I am not from the UK but I follow Brexit everyday because it's interesting. Like Trump and what happens around him is interesting.

Lots of people have different opinions and that's perfectly ok.

What I don't like is when people make important decisions based on fantasies, unconfirmed promises, etc.

It seems lots of remainers can clearly argue why they want to remain in the EU. Many of them also see clearly that the EU is far away from perfect - but still the best of the available option.

But is seems many brexiters just want to leave because all about the EU is bad and they want to be independent and all that.

Will the UK be ever completely independent? They can only be 100% independent if they don't do any business with anybody else in the world. Because the moment they do business with others then there are regulations.

If the UK leaves the EU and makes a trade agreement with the US, what will happen? Will the UK be independent? Or do they have to follow the rules which the US sets if they want to trade?

 

It's easy to dream about freedom and independence - but the reality are lots of compromises with the rest of the world.

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Nothing nebulous about the posters on TV. 

I guess that's good news.

Imagine if the UK politicians would have acted like this for the last years. There would be a lot less misunderstandings.