US citizens in Thailand on exempt tourist visas - how to convert to tourist multiple entry visas

[kimmywest1568]

We flew from the US to Bangkok (via air BKK) and are currently on a 30-day exempt tourist visa.  In the past, we've extended our visa for another 30 days.  After that, we'd take the train to Malaysia to get a fresh Thai entry visa stamp.

 

This time we'd like to be able to obtain a multiple-entry visa.  Do we have to leave Thailand to obtain a multiple-entry visa?

 

If possible, we'd like to find a way to obtain the multiple-entry visa without having to leave Thailand.

 

Is there a way to "convert" a 30-day exempt tourist visa to another tourist visa which will allow us to stay for one year with 90-day check-ins?

 

I welcome all suggestions as to the best "roadmap" from 30-day exempt tourist visa to a multiple-entry visa.

 

Our objective is to stay in Thailand for longer periods for tourism purposes.

 

Ultimately, we'd like to apply for retirement visas (we're both over age 50; we are 2 single people), but at the moment our income isn't sufficient to qualify for retirement visas.  So we're trying to find a way to accomplish the same thing, in the short-term.

 

Many thanks for your assistance in helping me establish a roadmap to get us from 30-day exempt visa to a tourist visa of one year -- or six months if one year is not viable.

[lopburi3]

You have the option to use funds in bank account rather than income, or with income meeting 800k per year.  Funds required is 800k Thai Baht in a Thai account for 2 months first application (each).  You can obtain a non immigrant O visa for additional 90 day stay if you show such proof to immigration (does not have to be in account any length of time for this task).

[BritTim]

The only multiple entry tourist visa that can be applied for in Thailand (or anywhere else outside the US) is the Thailand Elite program's Easy Access visa. I am quite sure you do not want to shell out that kind of money. A regular multiple entry tourist visa can only be applied for in your home country, or a country where you have residence.

 

If you have sufficient savings to transfer 800,000 baht each into a Thai bank account, you can start the process of converting to a non immigrant entry and extension of stay on the basis of retirement.

[lopburi3]

Will add one more factor - US will not issue letters of income anymore so if you want to use income plus savings you need to make appointment now for 20 December to get notarized letter of your income (as of now 177 appointments still available out of last 400 that day).  What will happen next year without such letter is unknown.  

[quadperfect]

You have already done what is possible before.

There is no magic visa. 

Visa runs. Best option still.

[JackThompson]

Note that for a married couple, only one must meet the financial requirements to obtain an extension "based on retirement" - and the other can apply for their stay as their spouse.  There is no financial requirement for the spouse.  So, if you have 800K Baht of funds to put in a Thai bank account, and can leave it there for 2 months, you can both obtain 1-year extensions-of-stay on that single deposit.  You can spend the money after the extension is granted, though it will need to be present again - for 3 months, next time - for the subsequent year's 1-year extension.

 

As you are currently here on Tourist entries, there is a preceding step to get a Non-O stamp (no additional money in-the-bank needed) - so feel free to follow up on that process, if you can meet the 800K requirement.

 

Some pay agents to get their retirement-extensions while skipping the financials entirely.  Rates are reported as ranging from 13K to 25K Baht per extension (official cost is 1900 Baht).  The first extension process would include obtaining the Non-O stamp. 

 

These offers are publicly advertised as "sponsored" or "no money" retirement-extensions, and nothing is done to stop this public activity.  I am personally wary of doing this, though Immigration policy makes it clear they prefer these types of applications to "honest" applicants - and you can guess why.

 

Another option is to become a student (usually Thai language), and get an ED Visa.  This involves one trip to a Thai consulate in a nearby country to obtain the initial Visa, good for a 90-day stay, which is then "extended" for 90-days each time, for the rest of the year.  Reports indicate that 3K to 5K Baht "extra" must be paid to the school to facilitate these extensions, at some immigration offices.  This should be discussed with the school before paying/enrolling in classes.

 

The other option, is to obtain Single-Entry Tourist Visas (SETVs) at nearby consulates.  There is no law or ministerial-order (rule) limiting how long one can stay in Thailand as a Tourist - provided you do not work, and have the funds to afford your stay. 

 

But, because immigration gets nothing from Tourist Visas (purchased from the MFA), there is some push-back at certain bad entry-points.  The key is to enter Thailand at friendly land-borders which follow the written laws and rules - not the Bangkok Airports or the Poipet/Aranya land crossings, where non-existent rules about "too much time in Thailand" are invented, leading some to be refused-entry on false-grounds.

Edited December 16, 2018 by JackThompson

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, kimmywest1568 said:

(we're both over age 50; we are 2 single people)

Above indicates they are not a married couple however.  

[JackThompson]

57 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Above indicates they are not a married couple however.  

You are right - I read it backwards.  Apologies.

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, kimmywest1568 said:

Many thanks for your assistance in helping me establish a roadmap to get us from 30-day exempt visa to a tourist visa of one year -- or six months if one year is not viable.

What you are trying to do isn't possible.

 

You'd have to apply for a Multiple Entry Tourist Visa outside of Thailand which isn't available from countries neighbouring Thailand. 

 

You should be able to stay 6-12 months using Single Entry Tourist Visas. Those can be obtained in all countries neighbouring Thailand. With each visa you get  60 days on entry that can be extended by 30 days once in the country.

[kimmywest1568]

Many thanks to all for your commentary.

 

For those of you who are fellow US citizens, please let me know if the following is plausible:

 

Going through the Royal Thai Embassy in DC, where long-term tourist visa applications can be submitted and processed via mail to RTC-DC and then sent to a US address.  Mail processing is a viable option according to the website.

 

I have a US mail forwarding address whereby I can give instructions and pay for the visas to be sent to us to a Thailand address.

 

The scenario I pose isn't to circumvent anything; rather, I pose it as a legal, alternative solution.

 

Here's are some links:  http://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/tourist-visas/ 

 

http://thaiembdc.org/tourist-visa-category-tr-multiple-metv/

 

Excerpt:

 

"

Submitting application:
1. In person

between 9am.-12pm. , no appointment needed
Consular Office
Royal Thai Embassy
2300 Kalorama Rd., N.W.
Washington,D.C .20008-1623

2. By mail

(except nationalities and passport holders of the following 13 countries: Nigeria, Central African Republic, Cameroon, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea, Ghana, Liberia, São Tomé and Príncipe, Sierra Leone, Somalia and Sudan. Applicants from the listed countries must apply in person only, and present original resident alien card or US visa)

application must include self-addressed return envelope only by these following mail service
” USPS (US Postal Service) Express Mail ”  use only flat rate mailing envelope with $24.70

postage stamp (Metered stamps will not be accepted)
Mailing address:
Consular Office
Royal Thai Embassy
2300 Kalorama Rd., N.W.
Washington,D.C 20008-1623

***The Royal Thai Embassy do not accept any responsibility for any damage or loss***

 

Extension of stay: Those who wish to stay longer or may wish to change their type of visa must file an application for permission at the Office of Immigration Bureau located on Soi Suan Plu, off South Sathorn Road, Bangkok 10120, Tel (662) 287-3101 to 10 or at http://www.immigration.go.th The extension of stay as well as the change of certain type of visa is solely at the discretion of the Immigration officer."

 

[kimmywest1568]

7 hours ago, quadperfect said:

You have already done what is possible before.

There is no magic visa. 

Visa runs. Best option still.

Thanks so much!  

 

Question:  I read on another forum string that, for tourist visas (multiple entries), such visa eliminates the need to provide financial disclosure.

 

So, how does a multiple entry visa fit into the scenario I described?  

 

Certainly I'm OK with visa runs -- we're already in Thailand, and our exempt visas are only about 10 days old (at most).  I'm just trying to figure out a way to obtain a longer-term tourist visa but without leaving the country; for example, by utilizing a US (DC) Thai embassy to do so.  Alternatively, to obtain such services (or as intermediary) by going to the US Embassy in Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, kimmywest1568 said:

For those of you who are fellow US citizens, please let me know if the following is plausible:

Going through the Royal Thai Embassy in DC, where long-term tourist visa applications can be submitted and processed via mail to RTC-DC and then sent to a US address.  Mail processing is a viable option according to the website.

It is not legal to do that while here in the country.

Quote

5. To apply for a visa, a foreigner must possess a valid passport or travel document that is recognised by the Royal Thai Government and comply with the conditions set forth in the Immigration Act of Thailand B.E.2522 (1979) and its relevant regulations.  In addition, the visa applicant must be outside of Thailand at the time of application.

Source: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15405-General-information.html

 

[Kim Jones]

If you wanted to go the METV route via a Consulate in America, you are required to show money in the bank, a full time address, proof of employment, flight tickets, and hotel reservations. It might be at the discretion of the individual Consulate/Embassy that you apply at how strictly they will enforce each requirement.  But the big thing would be having to send them your Passport, thus not having it while you are in Thailand. 

[JackThompson]

54 minutes ago, kimmywest1568 said:

I'm just trying to figure out a way to obtain a longer-term tourist visa but without leaving the country; for example, by utilizing a US (DC) Thai embassy to do so.  Alternatively, to obtain such services (or as intermediary) by going to the US Embassy in Thailand.

 

38 minutes ago, Kim Jones said:

If you wanted to go the METV route via a Consulate in America, you are required to show money in the bank, a full time address, proof of employment, flight tickets, and hotel reservations. It might be at the discretion of the individual Consulate/Embassy that you apply at how strictly they will enforce each requirement.  But the big thing would be having to send them your Passport, thus not having it while you are in Thailand. 

Even if the mail-method were done from a neighboring country - since it is illegal to do it from within Thailand, it is unclear how the Thai Embassy would react to a passport that is "stamped in" but not "out" of, say, Cambodia. 

 

One alternative to "shipping yourself across the planet to deliver paperwork" - a downside was discussed when the METV was first rolled-out - was doing a mail-in from Hong Kong, because they won't put an "in" stamp in your passport (you get a slip of paper, instead).  That way, one's passport would look the same as a passport of one who had re-entered the USA, because some entry points don't stamp US Citizens. 

 

But, one might be in HK awhile, during mailing and processing - lacking a passport to go anywhere else.  Total cost, including visa-runs during the run of the METV, would exceed the 25K baht +/- each, to get an agent-processed Non-O+retirement-extension.

Edited December 16, 2018 by JackThompson

[kimmywest1568]

Many thanks for your replies.

 

So, if we opt for the visa runs, how long could we do that without getting in the crosshairs of legality?

 

We want to do this right.  We are tourists, but we want to spend more time in Thailand as part of our travels.

 

I read on an earlier post that holding a multiple-entry visa -- vs. a single-entry visa -- reduces the requirement for financial disclosure.

 

Granted, we have enough $ for self sufficiency while in Thailand, but not enough to qualify for a retirement visa -- yet.

 

 

[kimmywest1568]

I realize the risk of having to send our passports to the US to obtain the necessary visas, assuming this is even possible.

 

But what about if we send our passports to DC, ask for visa stamps inside the US (via US mail, which from what I've read is acceptable), and ultimately have them sent to my US address, which would be stamped with a US entry?  Would this route help pave the way for obtaining a 6 to 12 month tourist visa if the new US visa stamp is done in DC, for example; and we obtain the newly stamped passports via our US address, sent to our Thailand address?

 

 

[overherebc]

14 minutes ago, kimmywest1568 said:

I realize the risk of having to send our passports to the US to obtain the necessary visas, assuming this is even possible.

 

But what about if we send our passports to DC, ask for visa stamps inside the US (via US mail, which from what I've read is acceptable), and ultimately have them sent to my US address, which would be stamped with a US entry?  Would this route help pave the way for obtaining a 6 to 12 month tourist visa if the new US visa stamp is done in DC, for example; and we obtain the newly stamped passports via our US address, sent to our Thailand address?

 

 

You won't have an exit stamp from Thailand and when you leave you will be fined for overstay.

How will you get the 'new visas' from USA into the Thai system?

If, unlikely, you are asked to show your passport to any official and can't you will be invited to wait at a place of their choice until you can.

The depending on how long you are overstay you could be banged up deported and blacklisted.

Edited December 16, 2018 by overherebc

[kimmywest1568]

OK, so we do a visa run and get a new entry stamp, what then?

[onera1961]

12 minutes ago, kimmywest1568 said:

OK, so we do a visa run and get a new entry stamp, what then?

You continue to do that till if you saved up sufficient money (800K each) and get a long-term (one year) extension. 

Or you can pay an agent 25K and get a log-term (one year) extension. If you're in/out of Thailand frequently, a tourist visa is preferred, otherwise, a long-term extension.

 

 

[pjthefey]

To get a METV  you have to leave Thailand, go to a country you have citizenship or legal residence in, and apply there with all the documents they require.    I got mine at the Chicago embassy,  they aren't too good about answering questions via email and phone,  but they are pretty relaxed regarding the documentation compared to some other places I've read about. 

[pjthefey]

46 minutes ago, kimmywest1568 said:

I realize the risk of having to send our passports to the US to obtain the necessary visas, assuming this is even possible.

 

But what about if we send our passports to DC, ask for visa stamps inside the US (via US mail, which from what I've read is acceptable), and ultimately have them sent to my US address, which would be stamped with a US entry?  Would this route help pave the way for obtaining a 6 to 12 month tourist visa if the new US visa stamp is done in DC, for example; and we obtain the newly stamped passports via our US address, sent to our Thailand address?

 

 

It could work if you have 2 passports. I do, I was going to do something like this if I didn't decide to leave Thailand (I'm moving this month).   

 

If you don't have two, don't bother trying unless you plan to leave Thailand for a while first.    You'll send your passport, they'll see an entry stamp and no exit stamp, and give your application the hairy eyeball.  Furthermore they won't send it back to Thailand.  You have to have a middleman in the USA to receive your passport, and ship it to you here.   I dunno how closely they'd look at other stamps since they don't really want people applying from overseas. To be safe, I'd go to a country that doesn't stamp your passport on entry.  Hong Kong, for example, doesn't....  I think there are others. 

 

If you are leaving Thailand for a while, you can send your passport to a friend in the USA with the prepared application documents,  they can go to the Embassy, or mail the application with the return address to their home, and then they can ship it to you in whatever country you'll be in while you're waiting to get your documents back. 

[pjthefey]

On a side note, getting two passports isn't too difficult. 

 

Book two trips to countries that require visas at the same time, with a near travel date.  Go to the US Embassy or passport office in your home country, tell them that you need to apply for multiple visas at the same time, or that you need to travel with your passport while a visa application will be processing.  They'll issue a second passport, valid for 4 years without cancelling the old one. 

 

In my case, I was applying for a METV in Chicago, but I had to leave for Seattle in a few days.   My return ticket to Thailand was Seattle => Chicago (overnight) => Tokyo => Bangkok, and I told them "I've gotta apply for my visa tomorrow, I'm going to Seattle in 3 days, and I'm not sure if they'll let me board the plane in Seattle since the first leg of the trip from SEA to ORD is part of an international ticket. The Embassy website says it can take up four or five days to process the visa so I may not have my passport back in time for my trip."  They were happy to oblige.      

Edited December 16, 2018 by pjthefey

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, pjthefey said:

It could work if you have 2 passports. I do, I was going to do something like this if I didn't decide to leave Thailand (I'm moving this month).   

 

If you don't have two, don't bother trying unless you plan to leave Thailand for a while first.    You'll send your passport, they'll see an entry stamp and no exit stamp, and give your application the hairy eyeball.  Furthermore they won't send it back to Thailand.  You have to have a middleman in the USA to receive your passport, and ship it to you here.   I dunno how closely they'd look at other stamps since they don't really want people applying from overseas. To be safe, I'd go to a country that doesn't stamp your passport on entry.  Hong Kong, for example, doesn't....  I think there are others. 

 

If you are leaving Thailand for a while, you can send your passport to a friend in the USA with the prepared application documents,  they can go to the Embassy, or mail the application with the return address to their home, and then they can ship it to you in whatever country you'll be in while you're waiting to get your documents back. 

And pick a country where you have 100% confidence in their mail system.

I still see a problem with no exit stamp from whatever country you post the passport from.

Embassies/consultes do look for it.

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, pjthefey said:

On a side note, getting two passports isn't too difficult. 

 

Book two trips to countries that require visas at the same time, with a near travel date.  Go to the US Embassy or passport office in your home country, tell them that you need to apply for multiple visas at the same time, or that you need to travel with your passport while a visa application will be processing.  They'll issue a second passport, valid for 4 years without cancelling the old one. 

 

In my case, I was applying for a METV in Chicago, but I had to leave for Seattle in a few days.   My return ticket to Thailand was Seattle => Chicago (overnight) => Tokyo => Bangkok, and I told them "I've gotta apply for my visa tomorrow, I'm going to Seattle in 3 days, and I'm not sure if they'll let me board the plane in Seattle since the first leg of the trip from SEA to ORD is part of an international ticket. The Embassy website says it can take up four or five days to process the visa so I may not have my passport back in time for my trip."  They were happy to oblige.      

But you didn't do it by post from another country.

[JackThompson]

22 hours ago, overherebc said:

And pick a country where you have 100% confidence in their mail system.

I still see a problem with no exit stamp from whatever country you post the passport from.

Embassies/consultes do look for it.

No entry or exit stamps in Hong Kong, and no entry-stamps for Americans entering the USA at some/most points of entry. 

[overherebc]

15 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

No entry or exit stamps in Hong Kong, and no entry-stamps for Americans entering the USA at some/most points of entry. 

Depending on how long it would take for mail to go from HK to USA, friends home then to the US consulate, then back to the friends home then back to HK it could be an expensive stay in HK.

That's assuming that all the forms etc are correct and no corrections/changes/signatures are needed by the US side.

[DrJack54]

This is ridiculous. Can anyone cite ONE person obtaining a METV as outlined in recent posts above. Personally I was very surprised that Thai imm insisted they could only be obtained in home country, but they did. Deal with it instead of standard farang notion of "how can we get around it"

Edited December 17, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

This is ridiculous. Can anyone cite ONE person obtaining a METV as outlined in recent posts above. Personally I was very surprised that Thai imm insisted they could only be obtained in home country, but they did. Deal with it instead of standard farang notion of "how can we get around it"

Shipping yourself in a tube for this is silly.  Ways of "dealing with it" - legally (not applying while in Thailand, in this case) - are the point of this forum.  A 2nd passport and staying in a nearby country during processing is a great option/combo.  And, yes, I met someone once - Russian, wealthy, under-50, and thought the Elite was an insult - who did exactly that.

Edited December 17, 2018 by JackThompson