2 q's about 800,000 baht for retirement visa extension

[brewsterbudgen]

Thais don't want us or our pensions.  We come over here; marry their women; take care of their abandoned children; build houses through local 'craftsmen' (ahem); buy cars from local garages; drink expensive spirits available nearby; support supermarkets by buying over-priced foreign goods; support the local police; get no justice in Thai courts.
 I know when I'm not wanted; looking hard at Vietnam.

What makes you think this? Does any country really "want" immigrants unless they can show they have money?

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dayo202]

9 hours ago, SanSaiExPat said:

If you do transfer money out from a Thai bank to your home country your also going to have to show your government (IRS)  where that money came from.  All in all, for me, it's too much reporting and too much contact with my government. This kind of thing could trigger an audit. I prefer to keep a lower profile and have as little contact with my government as possible.   "I love my country but fear my government."   

not if you use Deemoney to transfer the money 

[Olmate]

20 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What makes you think this? Does any country really "want" immigrants unless they can show they have money?

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

What do you think response is referring to, maybe he used his c.c?

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Debit card would require too many transactions with lots of issues like what would happen if the ATM swallowed your card or maybe your thai bank would get nervous about the size of the overseas transactions and cancel your card.

 

I have PayPal connected to my thai bank but the charges are horrendous. Don't know much about DeeMoney.

Use the card at your foreign-bank for a cash-advance, if worried about an ATM eating it (never happened to me).  Call the Thai bank and ask if any issue making foreign withdrawal.  If you needed all the money at once, that might be more of an issue.  Someone reported doing a quick buy/sell on bitcoin (buy from Thai bank, sell in passport-country bank) which worked-out below the typical overseas-xfer fee charges.  There are established Thai exchanges one can connect to their Thai bank account. 

 

All that said, I do see the issue if the 800K is a large portion of one's total liquid assets.  In such a case, much better for that money to be in an account in a country where one has a passport - and I don't blame anyone in that situation for saying they will not put it here.

[mikebell]

11 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What makes you think this? Does any country really "want" immigrants unless they can show they have money?

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

It is the 'showing' I have money that makes me think this way.  I have done all of the things I listed.  I am unwilling/possibly unable to produce 800,000 despite my pensions being worth over 65K.

[5633572526]

The amounts do seem a bit odd though. Retiree and single 800,000. A married man trying to support a family 400,000. My friend who has a work permit and makes 40,000 a month so 480,000. Can’t really see the logic but rarely see logic here so I guess it fits with Thai logic.

[cleverman]

On 25 December 2018 at 12:15 PM, ReMarKable said:

I think many, without a Thai family, will move to another South East Asian Country.

Everybody,except a very few of us, just keep asking questions about which there is no answer yet or , assume this that or the other. I take UJs advice, wait and see. 

[cleverman]

23 hours ago, JackThompson said:

MC/Visa Debit card?  But, as backup, perhaps a good reason to setup DeeMoney and/or a crypto-currency exchange linked to one's Thai account.

Yes, crypto currency the way to go. (Broke)

 

 

[cleverman]

14 hours ago, mikebell said:

Thais don't want us or our pensions.  We come over here; marry their women; take care of their abandoned children; build houses through local 'craftsmen' (ahem); buy cars from local garages; drink expensive spirits available nearby; support supermarkets by buying over-priced foreign goods; support the local police; get no justice in Thai courts.

 I know when I'm not wanted; looking hard at Vietnam.

Tell the 4 Ozzies to go to the embassy or their consul and ask there   If they will certify documents proving income after they cut off the stat decs. Don't take any notice of anything you may be told on here about that matter. Tell them to just do it. 

[luckyluke]

If, eventually, the monthly 65000 deposit/transfer becomes mandatory, why, then, still deposit 800000 for 3 months;

 unless wealthy.

 

 

 

[cleverman]

14 hours ago, dayo202 said:

not if you use Deemoney to transfer the money 

 Law abiding citizens have nothing to fear from their govt, inland revenue. Only the dishonest. 

[JackThompson]

41 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Yes, crypto currency the way to go. (Broke)

I never suggested "holding" crypto.  Buying from Thailand and selling into one's overseas-account within a couple minutes is unlikely to make one broke.

 

8 minutes ago, cleverman said:

 Law abiding citizens have nothing to fear from their govt, inland revenue. Only the dishonest. 

Anyone who has been audited, but did nothing wrong, will tell you otherwise - especially if they had to pay an attorney or accountant to help deal with it.

[JLCrab]

44 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I never suggested "holding" crypto.  Buying from Thailand and selling into one's overseas-account within a couple minutes is unlikely to make one broke.

Well well I see that hypotheticating various revolving door workarounds is still popular pastime.

 

Assuming all goes as suggested by the US Consular General in his interview, I would say that the IMM HQ on Suan Phlu would have these reactions:

 

1. They are unaware that there are various possible workarounds to their 65K+ FTT-type monthly deposit scheme.

2. They have concocted one or more methodologies to make such workarounds impractical or (by formal statement signed by the would-be workaround perpetrator) illegal.

3. They are aware of such workarounds but they really could not care less if someone feels the need to do so.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

If, eventually, the monthly 65000 deposit/transfer becomes mandatory, why, then, still deposit 800000 for 3 months;

 unless wealthy.

 

 

 

I don't believe anyone is saying it will be mandatory, simply it was what was previously required, and may be required in the future, to obtain an extension of stay based on monthly income. Which is an alternative to basing it on money on deposit in a Thai bank.

[cleverman]

6 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Well well I see that hypotheticating various revolving door workarounds is still popular pastime.

 

Assuming all goes as suggested by the US Consular General in his interview, I would say that the IMM HQ on Suan Phlu would have these reactions:

 

1. They are unaware that there are various possible workarounds to their 65K+ FTT-type monthly deposit scheme.

2. They have concocted one or more methodologies to make such workarounds impractical or (by formal statement signed by the would-be workaround perpetrator) illegal.

3. They are aware of such workarounds but they really could not care less if someone feels the need to do so.

What's that you say about "hypotheticating".

[JLCrab]

8 minutes ago, cleverman said:

What's that you say about "hypotheticating".

Spell-checker typo I missed -- but if it was 'hypothecating", they don't exist as of today and despite Jack's 101 ways to make it look like you make an FTT-type deposit every month when you don't make an actual FTT-type deposit every month but recirculate the prior month's deposit, they might never work at all.

 

[David Walden]

19 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Debit card would require too many transactions with lots of issues like what would happen if the ATM swallowed your card or maybe your thai bank would get nervous about the size of the overseas transactions and cancel your card.

 

I have PayPal connected to my thai bank but the charges are horrendous. Don't know much about DeeMoney.

 

A bank Application for Online International Outwards seems only to cater for repatriation of salary earned in Thailand.

 

Setting up of Power of Attorney with all of your banking documents seems a bit over the top.

 

Obviously Thailand doesn't want to give you your money back! ????

 

Maybe someone who has solved this riddle can offer advice.

You 1st Question answer....I have three debit cards one from ANZ Bank in Aus, never use it as they charge any fee they can think of ( I have to have it as ANZ will only pay my pension monthly payment into an ANZ debit card) it's OK as a back up if I loose my other debit cards.  I have another debit card from Citibank issued in Aus and one from ING Bank also issued in Aus.  ANZ fees for transactions is really bad.  Fees for Citibank account are nil, cards they are issued free (you have to have some money in it and you get no interest). They pay the daily exchange rate with no fee for service and ATM fees nil.  ING BANK is the best debit card I have this is where I keep my spare cash, they are the only bank who pay 2.8% interest on the balance and their fees are nil.  Yes, I recently lost my ING Bank debit card, left it in an ATM.  The banks in Thailand are confusing customers using ATMs by making useless commercial offers on the screen which are often hard to read before the transaction is complete and distracting customers.  Sometimes you can spend some time getting your glasses on trying to read these commercial messages as the sun and glare can be so strong.

   Also, some banks in Thailand have adjusted their ATMs to only dispense Bt5000 at a time thus for people like me who usually like to take Bt10,000at a time I now have to make 2 transactions with an ATM fee of Aus$9.50. each time=$19.00 ATM fee for Bt10,000.  Thankfully Citibank and ING BANK refund these fees to me (not ANZ they charge like wounded bulls).  How long these Western banks will put up with this RIP off to them I don't know.  Maybe they have an arrangement where they do not pay anyway. 

 

   At the time of the ATM transaction, the fee is shown on the ATM docket that I have been charged that ATM fee but this amount is immediately credited back to my account and appears as a separate credit transaction.

 

     If you have the money in a bank in your home country and want to retire in Thailand as said there is no need to have any money in a Thai bank, there are ways you can fix this with your family.  Once you show the money to the Embassy in a bank statement and get your retirement visa, the money in your home country bank a/c is free to do what you like with it,  pay it back or spend it?  See my above post this arrangement has been available for donkey's years,  Thailand's Embassy in Aus welcomes this method.  The only downside I can see is you would need to return to your home country at least once at the end of the 2 year period or you can make as many trips home as you like during the 12 months retirement visa period. That is your 1st year being "The VISA" not the second year extension period.  Which is what I do. At the end of 2 years you would have to return to your home country and start the whole process over again.  Bit of a Blast but mostly can be a positive.

   

      I return to Perth in Western Australia, stock up on free medicine, have medical checkups and then return to LOS. Saves money and the govt really pays my fare home and more as my required medicines are almost free when back in Aus. ( about $150 per month, so I save $900 on my trip home)  I can take 6 month supply out of Australia for my next extended holiday legally.  Then my gov pension returns to a higher rate upon return to Aus and the 6 weeks when I return to Thailand, adding another several hundred dollars to assist me for the trip home (yes a profit?).

 

The only people who are upset about recent developments with income statements from Embassies are those that do not have the required money.  The requirements for this part of a retirement Visa applications have not changed in about 15 years.  Plenty of scams about but Thailand looks like it's trying to do something about these now?  If you don't have the required amount that is not good for Thailands economy.  However many Australians can live quite OK on a basic Australian Aged Pension (AAP)  ( Bt500,000 presently).  But it seems to be not so in the future many Australian Aged Pensioners may have to return to Aus permanently in the future.  Or go to Cambodia or Vietnam which appears to be simpler now.

Edited December 27, 2018 by David Walden

[JLCrab]

19 minutes ago, David Walden said:

The only downside I can see is you would need to return to your home country at least once at the end of the 2 year period

O-A.

[David Walden]

On 12/25/2018 at 3:28 PM, Negita43 said:

My apologies - my q1 was not clear.

The question should have been can I show proof that I have the equivalent of 800,000 in a bank in my own country to the Thai immigration in Thailand.

 

 

 

You could once, I tried at Aus Embassy in Bankok paid the then Bt1900 (Bt3000 now) for the stat, dec they said it would be OK but didn't work...long story.  That's what prompted me to get my retirement visa in Australia after returning.  All would have been quite simple is I paid Bt25,000 to a Thai legal firm in Thailand or a scammer or put the cash in a Thai Bank, very difficult opening a Thai bank account on a Thai Tourist Visa then.

[JackThompson]

52 minutes ago, David Walden said:

The only people who are upset about recent developments with income statements from Embassies are those that do not have the required money. 

No, many of us have the required income, but we no longer have a known way to prove it without income-letters from our embassies - which are currently Required as the Primary Document to use that method at almost every immigration office in the country. 

 

Hopefully, the "show deposits into a Thai bank" scheme (discussed as in the draft Police-Order by the US Consul) will be all that is required - in which case we are set. 

 

52 minutes ago, David Walden said:

The requirements for this part of a retirement Visa applications have not changed in about 15 years.  Plenty of scams about but Thailand looks like it's trying to do something about these now? 

Most scamming is done by agents in cahoots with Immigration, themselves.  IOs in some offices even make it difficult or impossible to get a service w/o paying them agent-laundered money, to spite having every requirement met / document in-hand.  

 

My primary concern is that getting rid of embassy letters was a way to maximize agent-laundered payoffs, and a new rule-set may be designed to facilitate that - rather than anything honest.

 

52 minutes ago, David Walden said:

If you don't have the required amount that is not good for Thailands economy. 

There are no handouts for foreigners here, and all money being spent by non-employed expats is foreign-sourced capital/currency, which bolsters Thailand's wealth directly.   Therefore, how is someone who spends less than the minimum here - maybe someone retired with a pension of 45K Baht/mo - "not good" for Thailand's economy? 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I never suggested "holding" crypto.  Buying from Thailand and selling into one's overseas-account within a couple minutes is unlikely to make one broke.

Well well I see that hypotheticating various revolving door workarounds is still popular pastime.

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Spell-checker typo I missed -- but if it was 'hypothecating", they don't exist as of today and despite Jack's 101 ways to make it look like you make an FTT-type deposit every month when you don't make an actual FTT-type deposit every month but recirculate the prior month's deposit, they might never work at all.

Gravity can be a PITA, too.  Observing something - seeing the inevitable coming, in this case - is not the same as praising it. 

 

If not for the corrupt agent-system immigration often encourages, embassy-letters would likely still be issued and acceptable as before, and no one would have to worry about not being able to demonstrate their income to immigration as they have for decades.

 

But the question that started that question was:

On 12/25/2018 at 8:02 PM, LosLobo said:

To those who are considering transferring 800k from their home country bank to a thai bank.

 

Please be aware that if you need to suddenly repatriate the money, it is not just a matter of going online and doing a Swift transfer, the same as you might have done to deposit it here.

 

Do have an exit strategy to cover contingencies like accidents, sudden illness etc.

So, this was in the context of how one would get access to their 800K in a Thai bank, if they had to leave.

[JLCrab]

21 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Gravity can be a PITA, too.

Gravity is (mostly) inevitable. All these workarounds, which may not in the end work at all, are not.

 

If someone wanted to start a topic on which is the best countdown 31 DEC, you'd probably find a way to work in that all depends on the agent system and which corrupt agent is sponsoring the countdown.

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I don't believe anyone is saying it will be mandatory,

I thought the idea is to have to put the 40/65000 monthly in a Thai bank, not enough anymore to prove one have this amount, or more, as a mnthy  income in one's homeland/out of Thailand.

This condition next to the 400/800000 in a Thai bank and blocked for 2/3 months.

Hence my question, if one can avoid this blocking, why still doing it ?

Of course we will have to wait for the eventually amendments to the T.I. policy.

Pretty certain, as I mentionned here already, if there will be amendments, they will be for the benefit of the Im. officers, not for that of the expats.

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

This condition next to the 400/800000 in a Thai bank and blocked for 2/3 months.

Hence my question, if one can avoid this blocking, why still doing it ?

Because the 800K in the bank can be a one time deposit good for years whereas the monthly deposit in a Thai bank in theory would actually be a new approximately 800K every year -- that is if one is actually depositing a fresh 65K+baht every month and not pulling some shenanigan which may or may not be possible.

[David Walden]

2 hours ago, cleverman said:

Tell the 4 Ozzies to go to the embassy or their consul and ask there   If they will certify documents proving income after they cut off the stat decs. Don't take any notice of anything you may be told on here about that matter. Tell them to just do it. 

I really can't understand why people don't understand about Statutory Declaration (Stat. Dec).  Unlike the British and US situation where the those requiring evidence as to proof of income, both of these Embassies give you a letter from them indicating that they are satisfied that you have provided a true account of your assets and/or income.  They have looked into it and state they believe the information is true Hmmm This may be true or not true it is often B/S. 

 

  With Australia, we fill out a Stat Dec which is a statement where we make and sware the under oath and penalty of up to 4 year gaol that the information we have provided contained in the document provided by the applicant is absolutely correct, that we have the funds in a pension fund or whatever and we sign in front of a JP or CD (commissioner for declarations) and make a solemn declaration that this information is true.  The JP or CD will need to identify that you are really the person signing, that is the person named on the document.  The JP or CD has no idea if that information mentioned in the document is true or not, it's not his/her job, doesn't care.  Some documents a JP or CD might be 2000 pages long full of highly complex technical information.  The JP or CD are not signing anything as to the validity of the information is true they are just saying they saw you sign it.  End of story. Yes the Australian Embassy in Thailand charges Bt3000 for 20 seconds work witnessing you signed. And you think Thais can rip people off?  The Aus embassies are experts at it.  Thai immigration I believe has no idea what a Stat Dec is either.

 

   The information about the enforcement of Thai requirements with Retirement Visas has not changed for Australia and I have not seen where Thai Retirement Visa requirements have changed in any way.  There is little or no comment yet.

 

[AGareth2]

12 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

that is if one is actually depositing a fresh 65K+baht every month and not pulling some shenanigan which may or may not be possible.

if you can survive in Thailand on the polluted air

What's the problem?

[luckyluke]

10 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Because the 800K in the bank can be a one time deposit good for years

That's what I tought, if one is "wealthy" enough, to deposit 400/800000 in one time and no problem if it is blocked for 2-3 months.

Not my case, I spend an average of 75000 monthly, used the income method since 2000, will personally have no problem if the 65000 will be mandatory to be deposit in a Thai bank account.

Will see.

[JackThompson]

53 minutes ago, David Walden said:

I really can't understand why people don't understand about Statutory Declaration (Stat. Dec).  Unlike the British and US situation where the those requiring evidence as to proof of income, both of these Embassies give you a letter from them indicating that they are satisfied that you have provided a true account of your assets and/or income.  They have looked into it and state they believe the information is true Hmmm This may be true or not true it is often B/S. 

I think you meant British and Danish, where they look at documents, but do not verify the amounts directly from sources. 

 

The USA is/was more like the Australian system - "under penalty of perjury" system - a felony-offense risk hardly worth taking to get a 1-year permitted stay in Thailand - especially when a payment to immigration through an agent can obtain the same thing without all the trouble of getting the letter nor severity of risk.

[David Walden]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I think you meant British and Danish, where they look at documents, but do not verify the amounts directly from sources. 

 

The USA is/was more like the Australian system - "under penalty of perjury" system - a felony-offense risk hardly worth taking to get a 1-year permitted stay in Thailand - especially when a payment to immigration through an agent can obtain the same thing without all the trouble of getting the letter nor severity of risk.

Perhaps the issuing of these letter of income from the Embassies suggesting Embassies would never make anything up when attesting to the validity of the information supplied to create a letter of asset or income, which may be provided on unsubstantiated information is just as corrupt as anything that the Thais can dish up.  It is clear to me and I'm sure to deaf, dumb and blind Freddie this is the case as well as thousands of other people.  If you have the money you don't need the letter.  The letters up till now appear to be based on just wild made up guesses with these assets, yes, made up information...it is now being corrected.  Blast!   Looks like the end for the goose that laid the golden eggs.

   And yes it is clear that some Aussies have put what they like in their Stat Dec, this is unlikely to be allowed from now on.  All the Embassies have to do when witnessing a stat. dec is to remind those signing that proof Thai immigration may demand random checks and precise evidence to support there claim and not just your word ( as is the case in most other countries).  See how many greasy palms that creates...my god how the money rolls in.

[JLCrab]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The USA is/was more like the Australian system - "under penalty of perjury" system - a felony-offense risk hardly worth taking to get a 1-year permitted stay in Thailand - especially when a payment to immigration through an agent can obtain the same thing without all the trouble of getting the letter nor severity of risk.

Could be however a lot more Americans decided to just swear for about $US 50 that they had more than they did than pay money -- big money -- to an agent.